Dec-27-2016 5:55 PM
What if this isn't even the same one from Prometheus?
Dec-27-2016 6:26 PM
Great read Chris. I think that's an excellent theory, but hasn't it already been confirmed that the derelict had crashed prior to the events of Prometheus?
A L I E N 4 2 6
Dec-27-2016 7:09 PM
I don't think that Ridley Scott will break established canon that the derilect craft on LV-426 is thousands of years old. I don't think THIS film will have anything to do with 426. I DO think, however, that the third film will
Dec-27-2016 7:10 PM
Scenario 3: David uses the black goo to become an Engineer (didn't this happen to the android Eldon in the Fire and Stone comics) since he likes wearing their robes and all. Maybe his whole motive is to make him self a real boy one day. His experiments pay off, but can now be and does get infected by a facehugger and gives birth to the first bio-mechanical xeno that we know due to he himself being bio-mechanical now.
Something along those lines anyways.
Could also account for the Space Jockey's size difference in Alien and Prometheus.
Dec-27-2016 7:10 PM
are you suggesting that David and Shaw went to another planet with the ship they got from lv-223 and picked up another ship from the engineers home planet (assuming the planet from alien covenant is lv-426)?
Dec-27-2016 7:19 PM
Dec-27-2016 7:25 PM
Indeed, I was!
Dec-27-2016 7:34 PM
Why can't the engineer in the original chair just be the victim of xenomorph nest-making? In Aliens, entire levels of the atmosphere processing station were caked with the ribbed goo the Aliens had made their nest out of. I always figured it helped to insulate the environment, keep it damp, and give them places to hide, and that they did it compulsively. The Space Jockey/ Engineer just looks to me like he's been cemented to the chair by a xenomorph rather than "fossilized."
Dec-27-2016 7:36 PM
Dec-27-2016 7:36 PM
Daniels is the ship's terraformist. That is how this Eden becomes LV- 426. She terraforms the planet from space making it inhospitable and not uninhabitable. I think they are one in the same planet. The mystery is who is the space Jockey and did David set the beacon on that ship to attract others to come to the planet? Has it been going off all this time into the future Alien?
Dec-27-2016 7:46 PM
Great Topic Chris... i have been busy over the Holiday period so you have made a few topics that i was going to or similar... your posts get a lot of attention and so i feel commenting on yours is more better than starting a new one...
Nice theories Chris...
Maybe they are going back to the more Spaights straight up Alien Prequel draft style.... But that had Plot Holes (way the beacon set off, how Alien and Aliens never came across the remains of the USCSS Magellan
Going this route however raises some Questions... it would go against..
*How old the Space Jockey looked.
*The Clues in Prometheus Mural/Fresco and Chest Busted Cryo-Stasis Engineers and the Coincidental location to LV-426 and 2000 year ago outbreak on LV-223
*What Ridley had over and over said about the Event... which his focus as of 2014 was that it happened within a few hundred years of the LV-223 Outbreak 2000 years ago.
That does not mean to say they cant change that, there is nothing on Screen that shows the Derelict has been on LV-426 for Thousands of years, or that it is directly connected to the same outbreak on LV-223...
However... next i will make points that would suggest that this is NOT the Derelict or will become it.
It feels a bit too generic.. and easy... like the set up for a Synthetic Construct Walter + Face Hugger = Xeno... it surely is logical but its a bit to obvious.
Dec-27-2016 7:57 PM
Firstly i will start with how Ridley said there would be 3 movies starting with Alien Covenant before we get to Alien and the Space Jockey.... to hint this ship is the Derelict... where does TWO more sequels go... if they ignore the LV-223 connections and Engineers? Two Xeno flicks... then back to Paradise to discover the Juggernaught is now the Derelict?
Ok here are some points that go against this.. again this are direct clues.. but some are maybe unintentional differences..
1) As stated in a few topics before and SM pointed out, the Derelict and Juggernaught are different sizes... one is more U Shape the other more C and the dimensions are different. One appears to be about 900 or So Meters (Juggernaught) the other 350 ish Meters (Derelict).
2) The Derelict does not have the Control Panel and Chair or Cryo-Sleep Pods.
3) Wayne Haag teased about Stolen or Found Technology.. this could mean the Black Goo or Sacrificial and not Engineers Re-Engineered the Derelict but its possible that is what was meant.
4) Janek said the Engineers would not build a Weapons Facility on their Doorstep.... LV-426 is on the Doorstep... now Ridley said the Derelict never got far.. which means LV-223 to LV-426 but then would the Engineers Homeworld be so close?
5) David was asked by Shaw when she found out the Engineers never came from LV-223, but Paradise.. if David could take her there.... David said indeed once he figures out the broad strokes he could take her there..... no need for that if David knew it was just the Moon Next Door.
6) The Synopsis suggests the Covenant finds Paradise on the Far side of the Galaxy.... but then Prometheus found LV-223 in the Darkest places of the Universe (this could mean Dark as in Sinister and not distance).
7) If Paradise is a bit close to LV-223 then surely the Covenant would detected Shaws SOS? Unless David stops it? If Paradise is LV-426 some event would have to explain the destruction of both LV-426 and LV-223 so that nothing remains... but the Derelict... but surely if it survived... in a Derelict state so would the many more on LV-223?
Dec-27-2016 8:01 PM
When Ridley Scott was working on a Alien Prequel... prior to Prometheus... at the time prior to AVP which put a stop to his plans..
He said that back then he always felt that LV-426 Acheron could have been Paradise, but Paradise has a way of being dark and sinister.
This is maybe why Spaights draft followed the route of LV-426 for its setting... But at the end of his draft.... they was also of to the Engineers Homeworld and so not LV-426
Supporting Evidence 2)....
The shot from AC that looks more like the Derelict interior and not the Juggernaught... could the Juggernaught had evolved or been changed to this?
Is this shot from some place else?
Dec-27-2016 8:07 PM
As far as the ship goes... and Crash.
I would assume that the Derelict Crashed because of the Chest Buster Event... Ridley said it never crashed... but he meant it as in it was never a unplanned crash... the SJ had planned to set down and Quarantine the Cargo but he went through the Chest Buster sequence as he was landing.
David managed to take off on the Juggernaught, we can assume he pilots it.... hence there is No Space Jockey Shaw or so it seems on the Juggernaught....
If he can take off in what looks like a Vertical Take Off... then surely the Ship can land the same.. This is like flying a Drone/Helicopter rather than a Plane/Glider.
Why would he crash it... thats a big Question... the landing of the Juggernaught seems to be a decent like a Plane on its landing... why would David land like this into a Wood?
I think the ship can land vertically and David would surely not plan to land it in a Forrest... so something had happened... What? Thats a Good Question.
The shots we get of them entering a Cave, looks like its a Manufactured and not Natural formation... looks like either a Underground Bunker..
Or the Juggernaught...
We need to be careful how we look at the Trailer and not assume scenes run directly chronologically, i have noticed a few differences for another Topic.
Dec-27-2016 8:13 PM
This does not rule out the theory posted in the OT...
I however still hope the Derelict is Ancient...
I do however think the movie has clues in the trailers to set fans on a wild goose chase... its set up to give us Xenos, set up to forget the Engineers and Shaw... and tease at the Ship being the Derelict..
This is to go and hook Fans into seeing the movie, and i feel it would cover things more than meets the eye... i mean come on? a straight up Alien Prequel?
Ship ==> Crashes becomes Derelict...
Unleashes Goo.... creates Spores...
Urns or experiments on them become the Eggs in Alien.
We get TWO more Alien movie Prequels and Alien 5 and a 6 if its a hit.....
No answers to LV-223 or Engineers?
We have seen in Poster Xeno, we seen Eggs, saw in Trailer the Eggs and Face Hugger and the Juggernaught in a position similar to the Derelict?
If its as straight forwards as that then we have had the movie spoiled in just those few shots and trailer... why TWO more movies after?
I think they are keeping a lot back... the Xeno and Derelict clues are to draw fans in and lead us off the scent to a bigger Plot they wish to cover.
Dec-27-2016 8:18 PM
Well, Since Daniels is the resident terraformer, perhaps she has access to a device that causes the planet to start all over again from the very beginning. Everything gets reset sans the Alien ship. It is designed to travel through interstellar space so there is a small probability that could happen.
I believe that the original derelict ship is a different one. And didn't David say he knew how to get to the Engineers planet of origin in Prometheus? Seems more likely that they found it and it's a different planet altogether. Wasn't LV-426 a small primordial moon. Seems like the planet the Covenant is orbiting is a lot bigger.
I'm also wondering if they mention the Prometheus expedition in any significant way. Shaw did leave a warning not to go to LV223 so if they are in the general neighborhood, they should have received the transmission she sent before heading out to "paradise". Heeding any warnings that the solar system Prometheus set out to explore might end up being a bad idea.
Dec-27-2016 9:22 PM
I strongly think that LV-426 is the planet that the engineers tested their black goo on long ago, and not the planet/moon shown in Covenant. Here's why:
In the viral marketing materials for Prometheus, an infographic floated around showing info about the urns and black goo, which came from an Engineer manual translated by Weyland. Here is the link: http://imgur.com/r/LV426/hm4SP
In the middle section, it details a test of the effects of black goo on planet life.
I then thought "wait, what planet/moon have I seen before where there is 'no indigenous life'"? So I went onto Mother and entered in "planet test 1alpha" (taken from 'planet_test_1alpha' on the infographic), and it gave back the response "LV-426".
Dude! That's pretty specific. I say this because others have noted how even silly entries, such as "jurassic park", will still give you responses relating to Alien stuff, seemingly undermining what we can learn from Mother. But if you enter in just "park" or "jurassic" by themselves, you still get the same response. So it's likely reacting to something it thinks you're saying, something probably related to the Alien universe - not "jurassic park".
If you type in "planet" or "test" by themselves, you get back "unable to compute".
"Planet test"? LV-426.
This experiment has convinced me that LV-426 is the "planet test" in question in that infographic. If that's the case, Engineers are still alive to be putzing around with the black goo at the time that LV-426 is made to look the way it is, not wiped out like they (ostensibly) are in Covenant.
Dec-27-2016 9:23 PM
i doubt Terraforming is that Advanced... for Mankind.
But its no coincidence that Daniels is a Terraforming Expert
Prometheus was about going to a place where maybe the Gods came from... via clues left to many Ancient Cultures regarding godlike beings.... Shaws religious nature is behind trying to discover Gods.... but finding out what they find is not what she thought... and so off to Paradise she goes for more answers...
Daniels is a Terra-former and Gardner expert... they are off to find a new Home to Terra-form... when they are lead to and arrive at a World that needs NO-Terra-forming..
She is not needed... but she surely would be intrigued into finding out how such a World is so Earth like.... no doubt they find David and the Juggernaught and i think they would find clues to why David was there and what this place was...
Which is when she would be used due to being Teraformer as her Character as opposed to Religious in Shaw... this would be used to explore the Teraforming connections with the Engineers.
And i think maybe we find out why Engineers Teraform worlds and what purpose the Goo has in this.... as well sometimes you need to Wipe the Slate clean to start a new...
Something many Ancient Cultures and Religions speak of... a great Disaster to cleanse the World to then start a fresh.
Dec-27-2016 9:24 PM
Dec-27-2016 9:28 PM
Could very well be all connected... i think they are putting more thought into the Viral sites now... and a lot of that MUTHUR site does collaborate with that Data File and also the information in the Alien Resource Weyland Files Book..
Try Planet Test 3 Gamma or a combination of terms.. like Gamma.... or Test 3 Gamma..
Dec-27-2016 9:32 PM
Indeed solid points.... i nice one i forgot to mention..
And yes David said there was many more..... and who knows what Temple they came from or what Cargo... but Ridley did hint it would be carrying Black Goo.
But we dont know if this Black Goo is different a different Xeno strain?
"Charlie Holloway mentions in the movie Prometheus that this planet has only one moon that can support life - LV223.
It is obvious that the planet in the new Alien Covenant trailer is not LV426."
Dec-27-2016 9:51 PM
DALLAS: Alien life form . . . it looks like it's been dead a long time . . . fossilized. It looks likes it's grown out of the chair.
Seems to me the only way to tie everything together 'neatly' is an Alien reboot as Ridley's next movie. It appears to be too many inconsistencies, too many rewrites from him changing his mind so often. I would love to see a CGI version of the Engineer in this chair. Same height and everything, with a plausible explanation as to what happened to it. That makes more sense to me. Just look at the size of it compared to the crew.
Dec-27-2016 11:39 PM
What if we're all assuming an awful lot to satisfy our own needs?
As the whole Alien saga is his baby, Ridley has license to change whatever he likes (including what *WE* consider and demand as cannon). Maybe he's already decided "Ah, to hell with it - Let's tie everything up with this movie... give the fans what they want". It'll free him up to work with Blomkamp on A5, which may fill in any gaps. We've already seen pre-production artworks showing the Derelict in a huge warehouse, so there's plenty of scope to enhance the back story.
I'm not taking anything as read anymore, we can all speculate until we're blue in the face. From here on, we're in Ridley's hands as to what the true storyline will become, and if that includes changing the design/size of the Juggernaut/Derelict from something he did 40 years ago, then so be it.
Dec-28-2016 5:24 AM
My thinking is that LV-426 and LV-223 are just planets relatively close to each other, and that the derelict juggernaut on LV-426 was one of the ships from LV-223 sent to destroy earth when they were going to do that, about 2000 years or so prior (according to the explanation in Prometheus) but its engineer pilot got facehugged/chestbursted like all but one of the other Engineers on LV-223 shortly into his flight and crashed onto nearby LV-426, resulting in what the crew of the Nostromo found.
This planet in Alien Covenant was most likely the (or one of the) home planet (s) of the Engineer Race. (That has now fallen into a biohazardous ruin somehow, and destroyed their once grand civilization)
- you can almost guarantee that theory by looking at the leaked images of the large sculptures and monuments of engineers and all the dead Engineer bodies at the temple steps -
- plus it was where David and Shaw were supposedly headed to at the end of Prometheus anyway -
The Weyland-Yutani Corp, in its infinite wisdom, probably received some signal from David and secretly diverted the Covenant to detour and go check it out, since they were headed somewhere apparently way far out there to colonize some planet anyway.
i doubt this planet is or will become LV-426 - that would be an "astronomical" coincidence, since space is so incredibly vast, but it is just a fictional movie after all, so stranger things have happened I guess.
Dec-28-2016 6:17 AM
Shaw and David Depart LV-223 in search of the engineer home world.
They Discover a planet and the ship performs a rough landing.
Shaw is incapacitated and likely dies before leaving the Juggernaut hence the dog tags
Covenant is dispatched with a fully armed crew to charter and discover alien life hence Daniels *we don't know what the f is out their*
Weyland may only know of the system found in the cave paintings, and are likely on a moon close to LV-223, or are charting the local solar system.
Covenant departs to a planet which features many visual atmospheric characteristics as LV-426 with certain clearings featuring vegetation and life.
The smaller exploration ship lands, the crew departs and begins their journey.
During their exploration they locate the downed Juggernaut and 1 person gets the facehugger
Along with the eggs Incidentally the spores are disturbed and release the airborne infection
Crew gets back to the smaller ship and most certainly returns to the larger COVENANT and the infection starts its evolution process resulting in the birth of 2-3 neomorphs, and 1 alien.
Based on the shower scene its likely the Alien arrives before the neomorphs, and is initially not perceived as a threat due to its small size at birth, assuming they are aware it was ever born.
The Covenant becomes infected with multiple aliens, maybe even damaged causing the remaining crew Daniels, The women who lock the two in, and the captain to use the smaller vessel to return back on that same planet.
A neomorph is on Board and can be seen in the trailer just before the explosion as the women attempts to kill the neomorph she blows the ship thus ending their ability to leave the planet.
Daniels and the captain then venture to site where the chard boddies and long staircase appear in the leaked photos for a final confrontation with.....
Davids Involvement- Its hard to place Davids role with only 3 seconds of footage but their are enough clews to figure it out
David is not associating with the covenant crew and has been sabotaging the covenants plans.
David most certainly created the spores, and possibly using shaws DNA and canisters has created a small experimental egg chamber.
He certainly has become a creater, and is exercising his skills as a creationist on the covenant crew.
One of the final confrontations will likely involve Daniels and David.
** Remember Ridley said this movies would take a step back from the Jesus concept and would be more of a horror film and more like the original alien, when you read my story and analyze the evidence you see the parallels and this most certainly is what Alien Covenant is going to be about.
*Things people should overlook
Just because the original alien derelict does not have a seat or stasis pods does not mean it is a different ship and will likely be an inconsistency between the prequels and alien. They could have the ability to hide under the platform but i think its likely added for the purpose of storytelling and whenever we discover the alien derelict they will have chairs and stasis pods, but the original alien wont unless he digitally adds them in, or makes them disappear in the last movie.
*Things we should not overlook.
Based on the chard bodies of what appear to be the space jockeys fighting, its likely this planet has already seen a catastrophe and their maybe another.
We are not going to get the answers to who that jockey was in alien in this film, but its likely he is their on that planet
Based on the chard fighting bodies, and early Prometheus concept art which showed the space jockey being much larger, even the suit looking more accurate in scope and scale to the jockey in alien. These deliberate changes are strong evidence supporting the idea their are most certainly more then 1 species of engineer. In Prometheus when they where in the room with the big head, it is deliberately stated engineers worshiped whoever the big head is, and i think its likely the big head is our fossilized jockey in alien.
** My interpretation is that planet is most certainly LV-426, and certain clues makes it fit the bills. The ships position is identical to what we see on 426, eggs are present, and David is definitely the creator, or partial creator of the alien. The Mountains and vegetation are designed to throw you off, unlike in Prometheus Shaw needed a rope to climb into the juggernaut but the steep slope that allows the crew to walk right up into the derelict is another strong clew this is the not just any juggernaut but the derelict itself. I also think that planet has more then just eggs aliens and spores on it, and we will discover more about it in the sequel.
Dec-28-2016 8:09 AM
With even the most gigantic leaps of the imagination, this is not the same place or the same ship, I am warming to the film now but I cant really see a way of gluing the trilogy to the original in any type of linear fashion. Perhaps, they could stick and engineer suit on John Hurt and he could jump out of an egg singing "surprise, surprise, look at this, isn't it nice" or something . . .
Dec-28-2016 1:42 PM
you are exactly right....it will be interesting to see how it's eventually tied into Alien (1979) considering the time lines. If they do I would think they would have to dive deep into the engineers history/story line. Maybe that's why it's going to take 1 or 2 more films to follow it up.
Dec-28-2016 4:01 PM
Indeed this shot they used child actors to create a 26ft Space Jockey which only really created a 21-22ft one... the close up scenes we clearly see the scale is reduced by 50% to show us a 15ft Space Jockey...
Indeed Ridley wants to tell the tale how he wishes and how he sees fit, a lot may have evolved from how he would have explored this things many many years ago.. and so If Ridley wants to change things.. thats what he can do.. but he would also have to pass it by FOX first.
If Fox wanted to have the Black Goo stolen from the Predators.. then well Ridley would have to agree.. or simply walk away and let Fox get someone else.. as Bottom Line FOX have the Final Say... but lucky for us i think they are giving Ridley Scott more free reign this time.
Interesting theory.... i think in some part indeed, others i think the trailers seem to be showing us some things... but some of your points could be close to being on the money..
surely its not Pot luck the Covenant happens to be so close to Paradise to then get re-directed.... or even worse.. pot luck ends up at the same place.
I will latter give my two cents to what i think is going on as far as broad strokes.
Dec-28-2016 4:02 PM
Well.... "John Hurt"
Was revealed to be the Original Dr Who..... maybe Time Travel is what we shall see lol
Dec-28-2016 5:29 PM
There's no way it's LV-426. And I don't see how anyone can look at a picture of this crash from covenant, and the Derelict from Alien side-by-side and deam they are "identical".... this looks like it's crashed into the side of a mountain, and in Alien it was a flat horizon.
Connecting it, saying it is LV-426, is the biggest stetch ever. The whole deal with Prometheus was showing that this race of Engineers had multiple ships, and that it was one like the one in Alien, but wasn't the one in Alien.
LV-426 is its own landing sight from its own seperate incident. Not directly involved in this movie. Maybe the sequel brings it to LV-426, but we aren't there in this movie.
Dec-28-2016 6:55 PM
The whole purpose of the Trailers, the way the ship is.. the cave with Eggs under the Ship.... the Eggs, Face Huger and Xeno...
Its there to make us think this is the Derelict... when in actual fact it could be a red-herring to draw the fans into seeing a Prometheus Sequel thinking they are gonna get a more Blomkamps Alien 5
Indeed we would get Eggs and Xenos... i think they would be different but from the clues and explanations, it would show us HOW THE XENO COULD BE CREATED...
But not How the Xeno WAS created in Alien.
The Source i had as far towards P2.. (Green/Paglen) and not AC (Logan) said that they are to show us similar but different Monsters and ultimately it would show how David can RE-CREATE the Xenomorph...
Which would be a clever ploy....
If Earth had a World War 3 followed by a Astroid and killed all but a few hundred who then had to re-start on a Barron World...
They did not know how to Brew a Beer... or Make Wine... but then one day they found clues left from the now destroyed remains of Mankind... and in it enough clues to then allow them to experiment and create Wine or Beer.
They would not have invented Beer or Wine... but merely Re-created..
Dec-28-2016 7:43 PM
Right on BigDave, I concur
Dec-29-2016 6:10 AM
Great topic because it reminds us of how little we know other than this is an A L I E N movie.
Several things I would reinforce, add bearing in mind I have not seen the trailer.
The stills you have offered of the "entrance" and the "tags" may not belong with the Orrery sequence. They arrive at the Juggernaut in light and the camera is looking up into pitch black and that opening does not represent the shape of the Juggernauts seen previously.
The Orrery looks dark but in all other respects in good order which suggests that the Juggernaut may be in good shape even if it has flattened a few trees in the run in.
Daniels is here whereas she isn't in that opening shot and she is wearing exactly the same out fit as in her before the temple shot. The dog tags maybe within Davids rooms in the temple. If Shaw is incapacitated the appearance of the dog tags may come just prior to the horrific revelation of what has become of "her".
Why show the juggernaut in the trailer. Its a banner for the franchise however.
1) The synopsis of the movie has changed to the next chapter that could mean anything.
2) ADF is writing a concurrent sequel to AC for release at the same time.
This might encourage one to think that as filming went forward the decision was taken to wrap up this phase of the movies given age and A5.
We have the full life cycle, why biomechanoid will be answered quite possibly a serviceable Juggernaut. The narrative may offer a fork in the road where the Jockey is put to bed and post A5 they can go elsewhere. I understand Rogue 1 is a prequel and sits between 7 and 8 in terms of presentation but 3 and 4 in terms of story so if it works there at an audience level why not.
If Daniels the terra former has a more general interest in Engineer technology and the Green Crystal element then to put the Jockey too bed now makes sense. Focusing on the A L I E N, as in the X121, for another prequel after A 5 seems a stretch to me and all that the Jockey revelation will do is ....tell us who the Jockey is. We know why, where, what happened .we just do not know who.
Many have rightly talked of inconsistency of sizes etc etc. That will be a casualty of story telling ..if necessary but it will not be allowed to run the story.
Dec-29-2016 3:58 PM
All good points. Forced perspective, Child stand-ins (Lord of the Rings/Hobbit) and a host of other CGI/Practical illusions could bring that Jockey to life. After all, the Na'vi, of Avatar were 10-foot tall. I'd giggle with glee to see that.
Dec-29-2016 8:21 PM
Keep in mind often times trailers contain scenes or footage that never makes it into the actual film, it happens all the time and in fact was in play in some of the Prometheus trailers. I think it is a sly way to show to much without showing to much if no what I'm saying.
Dec-30-2016 6:52 PM
"The Jockey would need to be either David"
The Xenomorph is most likely the result of fused android/engineer DNA. So theoretically, could the Xeno also consider andriods potential hosts? The Space Jockey in ALIEN was chest-bursted, after all. Then again... if andriods are also potential hosts, then why didn't the Xeno in ALIEN also attack Ash?
"or a member of the Covenant crew with an agenda as evil as David's"
Another Burke! Love this idea.
Great topic, but maybe you guys can help me figure something out. The spores seem very "simplistic" while the eggs are much more sophisticated. It's like two pieces of similar technology sitting side-by-side, but one is generations ahead. Why not just have the spores? Why the eggs too?
"Black Goo Nuke" - This is epic Chis! In fact, it's probably what happened to the Engineer planet. Every single living thing on it has some form of Black Goo DNA running through it- yikes!
Jan-02-2017 6:17 AM
Really cool ideas and discussions! To me, in the AC trailer it looks like what Daniels is holding and looking at on the chain in the crashed derelict isn't dogtags, but Shaw's display card that had the dna analysis from Prometheus - granted, it wasn't shown on a chain in Prometheus (just her cross) but its about the right size and seems translucent in the trailer.
Jan-06-2017 5:53 AM
I can possibly buy the LV-426 theory with Scenario 1.
The similar impact angle the juggernaut shares with the derelict is intriguing, if these turn out to be same ship I'd be less concerned about the design differences as the Engineer suit wasn't the same as the Space Jockey either.
What doesn't really hold up here is the surrounding environment that looks very different from the harsh, dark and barren surface of LV-426.
Present time scientifically speaking, a fission device may scrap away flora and fauna but will unlikely remove that huge mountain behind the juggernaut that was unseen in Alien.
Also, there's no fossilised Jockey.
Jan-07-2017 12:55 AM
the vast majority of these theories r brilliant, fascinating and would make great watches. the biggest question of them all is how close to the original alien will ridley stick??? IMO...ridley saw alien as a 1 off movie, to me, he has implied that the SJ has been dead for a long time rather than it being in that state due to a catastrophe but u can argue this has been left vague as kane says it 'appears' to have been dead a long time. I hope this is the case, I hope covenant is not on lv426 and the ties between xeno and engineer stretch back thousands of millennia. I think david will recreate a xeno of some form but it wont be something new to engineer history. a twist could be david has somehow impregnated an engineer in cryo sleep, he awakes having no idea whats going on, realises hes nowhere near where he should be (lv223) so sets off back to lv223. the ship in covenant has definitely crashed but theres no indication that it is unflyable, david may have chosen to remain on the planet to conduct his experiments???so the engineer sets of back to lv223 to complete whatever his mission was and on approach the chest burster erupts killing him and causing the ship to crash on lv426, in a future movie some for of nuke is set off giving u the effect he has been there much longer than he has. as I say id rather he had been there for thousands of years as this gives weight to a long history and significant tie between the engineers, the goo and possibly the xeno in some form or another. I also got the feeling from Prometheus that there is definitely some form of conflict amongst the engineers, first they are more than happy to create us and then they want us destroyed. whether they saw us as an aggressive future threat or as some people have theorised, a break off faction is rebelling against being fodder for the xeno queen and wants to stop earth becoming a birthing planet
Jan-07-2017 1:12 AM
it also depends on the weyland files that apparently r in the blue ray extras. if ridley was the one who came up with them then id say he has put them there for plot reasons and wont stray from this line which means the derelict has been there since before Prometheus first set off, which is what I hope as it makes for a more interesting story. did david go to paradise as he was no longer tied to weylands programming so he could now help shaw with her quest, which would suggest david to be, at least towards shaw, acting with decent intentions. or he is in fact acting with sinister motives which is what seems to be implied. im sure ridley will throw in several twists regarding david and walters motives and how they interact with each other
Jan-17-2017 1:47 PM
Hi guys, I'm new on here but have regularly popped in to read some posts and conversations over the years and keep up to date with news. Of course as of now most of what we're saying is speculation as we just don't know what Ridley has in store for us with covenant or it's sequels. However I just can't see David being anything other than the creator of some of the various xenomorphs we are about to see, let alone him becoming a Jockey. As for how does the alien become bio mechanical (unlike the protomorph in Covenant) rumored. isn't this just a result of it taking traits from it's host in this case an engineer with his suit fused into his skin as in Prometheus, unlike the sacrificial one? Always looked at the Xeno body and wondered about the way it looks especially the long bone like rods protruding from the back. When I seen an engineer though I thought this matched perfectly. The engineer has ports on the back of his suit that would line up with Xeno back rods perfectly. Possibly oxygen ports for breathing whilst in flight? Therefore the Xeno actually took part of the chair as well as it was connected to the engineer. Also in Alien they said the Jockey looked fossilized like it was there for a very long time and also fused to the chair however we do not know how quickly their bodies breaks down as they are aliens plus in Prometheus the jockey suit is or appears to be part of the chair already. Finally I do not believe the jockey and the engineer are the same being I believe the engineers stole fire from the gods meaning the Jockeys and tried to replicate there weapon (Xeno) to possibly kill their creators for whatever reason although they could not perfect this hence the artificial eggs (Vases) and the Deacon was the closest they could get. Knowing they would need an army of these a perfect planet of hosts was picked (Earth) until the events 2000 years before Prometheus halted the plan. What happened there is something I hope we see in the future, sabotage or accident I highly doubt the latter as we can clearly hear a Deacon screech. My post may be little long however so much to talk about.