Nov-15-2016 12:33 PM
Thanks for posting Chris. It is really intersting and one that was discusssz about the engineers actually being thieves who stole from a more advanced race only to have it backfire and thus wipeout their race.
I also figured that the film will take place on the planet and the ship. My guess is that in act three, we will be on the ship as they make "their harrowing escape" and she and Danny McBride will be the last two ( my theory) and that David will also be on the ship for the final act.
Well, I hope there will be a trailer before the year is done!
Nov-15-2016 12:34 PM
Everything sounds so interesting!! But regarding the leaked pictures and some aspects about the story, there are too many spoilers. I hope that there still will be a lot of suprising moments!
Nov-15-2016 12:53 PM
@David001, you think David will survive the entire ordeal and be present in the third sequel? I kind of agree, he seems to be the focal point of this journey.
@123Engineer, There are still plenty of surprises. ;)
Nov-15-2016 2:16 PM
That or Walter will defend them and sacrifice himself to allow them to escape. Of course, they will have the creatures on board to deal with. We know the third act will leave us hanging to allow it to proceed to the next film.
My theory is David will at least be the main antagonist and go through the whole film. He will not die easy. At this point, he might have enhanced himself with the technology he came upon and being there for 10 years, im sure David is different than he was in Prometheus. Or he transfers himself, his consciousness into Walter..which gives a lot to ponder.
Nov-16-2016 11:36 AM
One thing I really liked about Prometheus was the sort of pop Metal Hurlant vibe it had, looks like it's gonna be reprised here, bravo! And yes, Oduodu I'm definitely hoping for an SJ element too, looks possible!
Nov-16-2016 2:00 PM
Its nice to go back to the Moebius Atheistic which Alien Incorporated as far as Human Technology and also the mention that the Engineers Technology is how we saw it in Prometheus and other comments by Wayne Haag does seem to point us down the route that we would see similar Atheistic with Engineer Technology that does not have that more Organic Look that Alien did.
Not sure if we can read into it too much, but it appears that the Engineers Tech wont be as Bio-Mechanical as far as somewhat Organic and Alive like in Alien and maybe at the same time the Monsters will not be as Mechanical as in Alien.
Which maybe suggests eventually there is a Merging of those Elements that is what the Derelict is.... or that there is something borrowed or reverse Engineered from the Derelict.
We cant read to much into the comments as they contradict a bit of what Ridley Scott said, but then also back up what he said a while ago that he kind of contradicted with his (Ridleys) comments after the announcement of Alien Covenant.
Regarding they (Engineers) Creating the Evolving Creature, and hints of the Evolution of it in context to timeline post Prometheus..... to the Xenomorph being something Ancient.
Again Ambiguous comments... Does it mean the Engineers Stole the Goo, and what Goo, the Sacrificial? The Black Goo Urns or something Else?
Again this could mean anything its very ambiguous with somewhat contradicting a bit?
Nov-16-2016 2:06 PM
While we wont set down on LV-223 i am sure events of Alien Covenant will help make sense of what happened on LV-223.
Trying to put these comments together with previous...
I am now wandering....
1) Was the Urns sent down as Punishment but backfired.... and the Rebellious Engineers took it upon themselves to Salvage some and Experiment upon it and maybe use it against the Hierarchy.
2) Or did they steal and miss-use the Sacrificial Goo to create Mankind? then the Xeno was sent as Punishment which failed and the Engineers used the Sacrificial Goo to Re-weaponize the Xeno and experiments?
3) or similar, was they supposed to create Mankind, and Mankind was failed but the Engineers on LV-223 had taken some Humans to Earth to Evolve against their Hierarchy wishes? which then leads to Number 2?
5) Or as above but they was merely supposed to watch over us, or we was used for some Agenda but the Rebellious Faction decided to Teach us stuff in-return to get us to Worship them which leads to Number 4?
Nov-16-2016 2:11 PM
Welcome back.... yes maybe Two different Species, but surely related, i doubt the Space Jockey are totally Alien to the Engineers but we cant rule that out...
I think they are Humanoid, but maybe less so than the Engineers or maybe they are very similar, we have to remember Ridley said the Space Jockey and Engineers are Brothers and referred to Engineers as Fallen Angels.
So i think there is that Hierarchy link, God/Angels ... Titans/Olympians and say Annunaki/Igigi
And certainly seems the Engineers are the lower caste, who stolen something maybe off the Higher Caste?
Nov-16-2016 2:17 PM
As far as the look of the Monsters and Ultramorph, and the Neomorph supposed leak...
Again we cant be 100% sure on any of this, the Story behind the Neomorph does seem a bit odd how it was told.... but we do see in those leaked Photos a Face Huger, and Eggs...
Ridley said we would see them all Egg, Face Huger, Chest Buster and Big Fella... and the only official Monster Image was of that Xenomorph like Hand... Tagged where it all begins.
So its safe to assume the Eggs and Face Huger we saw are in the movie.. and likely something related to the Xenomorph.
As for the other Props, they could be projects worked on and abandoned as Prometheus they worked on Props for different looking Monsters that was never used.
Also of note is the Ultramorph had a number of different designs that was different to each other, some looked very Deacon like.... and i think the one Ultramorph Design from Prometheus (that looked nothing really like Necronom IV) evolved into our Deacon design in Prometheus.
So we dont quite know what Monsters we shall see for sure... all that is perhaps 100% Certain is.
something close to the Traditional Egg/Face Huger, Chest Buster etc... that however is not yet as Mechanical as the 1979 Alien.
Nov-16-2016 5:19 PM
Patient Leech: check out Moebius, he's worth your time. He was the second graphic artist to blow my mind as a kid (the first was Richard Corben, check out Slipped Mickey Click Flip from Creepy magazine and imagine seeing that as a 10 year old).
Metal Hurlant was a French adult comix magazine that was brought to the US as Heavy Metal in the mid 1970's. It was mostly European artists and Moebius was in almost every issue. Ridley is very influenced by Moebius and just hearing the name dropped is exciting, though not necessarily a surprise.
Nov-16-2016 5:50 PM
@oduodo, precisely! If Haag's theory about the Engineers being thieves is true, it could explain why their suits and ships mimic those of the Space Jockey. The Jockey's could have been a peaceful humanoid and we're enslaved or taken advantage of by the Engineer race. They would have stolen their tech and formulated it to best suit their size difference.
In fact I have a theory - that the Jockeys were "keepers of the Alien" but the Engineers attacked them and stole the Alien, which they viewed as their own God of some sort. But, the Jockeys were the only race able to contain the creature and so, the Engineers attempted to copy their technology as means to try and control the parasite themselves.
This leads into my next theory that the Jockey found on LV-426 was not killed by an Alien, but by an Engineer. A band of Engineers sabotaged or boarded the Jockey vessel and killed him, forcing his ship to crash which then lead the Engineers to set up base camp on an adjacent moon, while they study the Jockey and the Alien parasite. Because perhaps they knew the dangers of handling the parasite and so, left it there in the crashed ship, until they were capable enough to handle them safely.
Just one of many possibilities.
Nov-17-2016 6:22 AM
Whist I'm a little saddened about the lack of BIOmechanical aestetic, I will hold out hope for at least one very H.R. Giger Biomechanoid MORB!
A L I E N, BladeRunner and PROMETHEUS all have that very deliberate MOEBIUS-Metal Hurlant vibe. Stands to reason that COVENANT will continue that tradition. Sir Ridley has impeccable taste!
I too have always held onto the hope that the original Space Jockey belongs to another race of beings, whose tech was stolen/adapted by the Engineers.
All That I Love: Jean Giraud-MOEBIUS
Nov-17-2016 7:42 AM
I don’t think that they need to go back to LV-223, I prefer if they move the story forward. Having bio-mechanical landscapes isn’t necessary if they are interesting. Having retro things in it just for the sake of it isn’t necessary as long as the result is good but the same thing could also be said about putting new things in it.
The idea of the black goo as something that the Engineers found is fine. If they will keep it like this then it would help to keep the goo as a mystery which I am totally satisfied with. The idea of the Xeno as a pre-existing monster could work even though I am not sure if I like that idea or not.
About the lack of bio-mechanic things well that is alright. They had bio-mechanical thing in Alien and Aliens so why not take the story forward? Maybe we will see something like that in a later movie if there are some left until we will get to Alien (1979).
I agree with 123Engineer that they should keep most of it as a surprise. Having trailers is fine if they don’t give the whole movie away. They can show some of the movie in the trailer but not the most important parts.
Oduodu: I think that it could be alright to have the SJ’s and the Engineers as almost two different things (not totally separate as you seem to suggest). Compare this to the Mayan society where you had warriors and so on, the same could be said about the Space Jockeys and the Engineers. Both are connected but they have different roles, I think that this makes sense.
Nov-17-2016 4:30 PM
@ Chriss and Lone
Could be, we dont know for sure and we cant rule what you both have said out, while Ridley had said the Space Jockey/Engineers are Brothers and while he said ages ago that the Derelict was there for thousands of years and carrying those Eggs etc.
There has been nothing 100% concrete to sugest either of the above and so they can change the Plot or ideas they had... like the Elder Engineers who looked older more frail Engineers..... that scene was deleted and for all intensive purposes they could persue the path that frail looking Engineers or other beings dont exist period.
I do however think the Paradise Lost and Fallen Angels comments must point to some connection.... and so there has to be a
Kind of Hiearchy where the Engineers play the lower cast.... however while Mankind looks similar to the Engineers, as we indeed look similar to how Angels, Olympians, even Titans and Annunaki/Igigi appear even GOD as we was created in his Image.
This does not mean they could have the Higher Caste Actually look somewhat different to Engineers and Humans, however i dont think it would be as vastly different as say a Xeno and Human are different.
Nov-17-2016 4:33 PM
Indeed Thoughts Dreams
You dont actually have to visit LV-223 to explain what happened like Prometheus tried to do with LV-426, but ultimately was a bit to vague.... we never had to go to LV-426 or have a Full Space Jockey Flash Back to know what happened had things been done a bit different.
The same goes now for LV-223
However when Wayne says they wont visit LV-223 does that role out a Flash Back? Or even a Mention?
Nov-17-2016 4:42 PM
As far as the Bio-Mechanics it depends what we expect....
HR Giger's work was varied... some had more % Mechanical compared to Organic and others vice versa... some even 50/50
But i think Wayne means how the Derelict looked more % Organic than the Juggernaught, and also we have to remember Ridley Scott said this movie would show us how the Xeno was Bio-Mechanical and by that i think they mean more Mechanical Looking.
Right up to now here is what we have...
Alien: More Organic Ship (Derelict) More Mechanical Monster (Xenomorph)
Prometheus: Less Organic Ship (Juggernaught) Less Mechanical Monsters (Deacon, Hammerpede, Etc)
You could argue the Prometheus Monsters suited the Alien Ship and Alien Monster suited the Prometheus Ship.
I think Alien Covenant will start to address where these things Merge...
And it will be interesting to see how....
When Wayne says the Engineer Atheistic is the same, i would suggest that Paradise has some interior designs at least that match the interior of the LV-223 outpost and Juggernaught, but the movie sets so far hint at a more Ancient looking Constructions.... but at least thats how they could appear on the outside.
The again Wayne could mean the look of the Engineers, be that we see actual Engineers in the timeline of 2104+ or as Flash Backs.
Nov-18-2016 8:44 AM
It could be that the hardcore bio-mechanic constructs belong to the SJ, or whatever the Engineers are battling.
It's possible that the LV223 encampment was made at the behest/or just with the technology of their creators/masters/employers/victims, hence the simplified hybrid bio look.
Edit: Haag's work is an interesting cross between Ron Cobb, Vaughan Bode and Moebius. The lighting and scale are very akin to Prometheus.
Nov-18-2016 1:49 PM
Many options is
I hope we see
On the xeno
But not explicitly
Sounds great so far.
Perhaps some of my
Theories might have
But I think as Mr Haaq
Says a lot of.fan theories
Is close. And a lot is
Well see !!
Nov-18-2016 1:53 PM
I want it to be ancient
Very very ancient
So ancient that it
Makes you feel like
We are some remnant
Of something vast
The landlord is slowly
And we and the
Remnants of an
Struggle .perhaps the
Landlord isn't eveb aware
We exist .....yet.
Nov-19-2016 9:36 AM
Bit busy now, but i have listened to the full Wayne Haag Interview and i will attempt to dissect it some time when i am less busy.
But its very interesting.... some of what he said adds up to what the Source said, but again Wayne is not giving much away... but production dates seem to match, and even how its about Engineers more than Xeno....
I think what really interested me the most is that Wayne has looked at this Place and AVPGalaxy and he has said some of the theories and discussions are very very close... some are way off the ball park...
it would be interesting to ponder which debates and theories are very close... and which Forum? He did make mention as far as close to some of the Topics i mentioned as he brought up the post i did when i tried to analysis what the Movie would show us Aesthetically based of the Art Department and what they regularly do.
He could mention i was close to the look and roles of the Art Department, i did make another post called Paradise not long ago to touch upon the Look of Paradise....
But thats not to mean any of my other debates are close.. i could be one of those who are way off LOL
I dont have a set one theory though but a broad one that forks off in a few different areas as its hard to pin point a exact theory that 100% works.
Be Fantastic when the movie is out for us to see how close some of us have been or not....
Also Wayne mentioned he has Props that may or may not be in the movie..... Its like i touched upon those leaked Props and said we maybe cant take them for Fact.. as being in the movie because Prometheus had Props and different Monsters that was worked on further than Concept.. that never appeared in the movie....
Wayne stated he has props but he cant say if they would appear, as again we dont know how many different ideas get worked on and then dropped... but we soon will in 9 Months Time