SuperAlienMember1299 XPJun-03-2019 12:19 PM
Apparently the author of the article in Variety, Susan King, is not really up to date about the future of the franchise. Not sure if she watched the films, for her "the baby alien lifeform bursts from Kane’s stomach". That's why everybody calls it "chestburster", right, Susan?
So I don't think she knows something we don't know.
SuperAlienMember1299 XPJun-03-2019 12:27 PM
I think if they had something in plan, not in the works already, they would have made the announcement on Alien Day.
KongzillaMember656 XPJun-03-2019 12:31 PM
I don't think so. Alien Day is Alien Day.
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-03-2019 2:56 PM
I think as daliens had mentioned....
IF there was News, then Alien Day would have been a ideal time to Tease or at least Mention it, even if Disney just came clear and said we are in the Works on a ALIEN Movie.
This would Bump Up some interest, but then if its not clear then it would get FANS going Wild thinking we may be getting another ALIEN Movie and not another Prequel, but then such a Announcement would have allowed Disney to Gauge the Reaction which would help them to see if their is a Interest in a Alien Covenant Sequel, or if Fans want a Alien/Aliens Sequel.
Alien Day is Alien Day.... but a thing to remember is Alien Covenant is a ALIEN Prequel hence a Alien Movie. But its a interesting remake to make Leto, because indeed it does show that it will be EXPECTED that a Alien Prequel should be a ALIEN Movie and not a David/Android Movie.
This is something that Disney have to take a LOOK at... they are NOT in the Business of taking Risks, they want to make Money $$$ and so if they Feel the more DAVID a Movie is the Less Fans may be Interested, then it really would a EFFECT the chances of us seeing a Ridley Scott inspired Continuation/Conclusion.
So there is a Predicament regarding the Prequels and HOW you carry on, because ULTIMATELY it will be Expected to Conclude with the Eggs on the Derelict.
Its the Route and Answers to this, that would be something that Fans would NOT completely agree on.
WHY in the other Topic i Started the other Week, i proposed that maybe the NEXT Movie should be a more ALIEN Movie that is NOT a Direct Continuation of David's Journey or Ripleys (includes Amanda).
Before doing such a Move they (Disney) would have to Decide the Origins of the Xenomorph, is it via David's Experiments even if he is NOT the Final Part of the Jigsaw, or had the Xenomorph been created Thousands of Years prior (unless some Tear in Space can account for a Derelict being sent back in time).
Because Depending on when the Xenomorph came into Existence, could affect the Avenues to Explore the Xenomorph. By that a David Creator could limit LV-223, LV-426, Planet 4 and Origae-6 as the Avenues to introduce the Xenomorph again in a NONE Direct Alien Movie as far as does-not continue from David or Ripley.
Then again.. maybe NOT so... if Engineers come to take David's Creation or Evolve it and then take it... and they LOAD up Multiple Ships.... then the Derelict would be just ONE of the Ships..
So you could then have another Ship that either Successfully Deployed its Cargo to another WORLD the Engineers wanted to Rid of Life, or maybe another Accident and Crash Ship and Cargo takes Place?
Like i said any Movie they TRY and DO that avoids being a Prequel, they either have to KNOW how they intend the Origins of those Eggs to be so as to NOT step on the Toes of any Prequel, or Conflict them... or simply DONT bring up anything about the Origins.
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-03-2019 3:02 PM
At the Moment the ONLY way that maybe this News could be True would maybe be IF the work was Green Lit just before of after ALIEN Day, as Alien Day would have been a Ideal Marketing Opportunity.
As i have said before, if this is TRUE.... then i think by the Time Ridley Scott has even began Work, or Finished Work on Raised by Wolves, you should hear Ridley Scott Tease more about any ALIEN Project he is working on.
I still suspect this could be related to the Work they Began on/got as Far as around the Time of Alien Covenant's Release that the World Box Office and Take Over Talks had put on ICE!
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-03-2019 3:28 PM
Regarding Alien Awakening.
If we assume this will be the Title, then it will Mislead Fans as they would expect we will see a Awakening of the Xenomorph, well at least they wont expect it to be a Awakening of AI.
So i see this as NOTHING New as far as News... i think it is a Waiting Game for something more Official.
The Disappointment with Alien Covenant were having Xenomorphs back did-not help, they have to take on Board what went WRONG!
At the Moment having the Covenant Ship and its Convenient Thousands of Colonist/Embryo's in Full Control of David and what seems his Agenda to Unleash his Creation (Xenomorph) to Rule the Galaxy, that will END up after the Conclusion of the Prequels as showing WHEN/HOW those Eggs get on Board the Derelict.
And quite a lot of Fans are not pleased that David is Indicated as Creator of the Iconic Beast, that the Prequels are Focused on David, and also Ridley Scotts ideas/interests in exploring Creationism and AI.
So it would be interesting IF/WHEN a Prequel Continuation is given the GO AHEAD and how much of the Ideas back in April-June 2017 will be changed/given the Thumbs up by Disney.
NTFSMember92 XPJun-04-2019 3:31 AM
My wish list to the scriptwriter is the following:
1. Hope to see David as a protagonist in the story even though his role is questionable right now.
I believe the evil, genocidal scientist position would be an out-of-character role for the actor.
2. Hope to see most of the 2000 colonists survive the next episode.
The damaged Covenant may be on orbit above Origae-6 or it may be crash-landed on the surface but most of the colonists should be alive in stasis.
3. Swearing is bad. It devalues the story and it sounds ugly in film. It should be removed from all dialogue.
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-04-2019 5:14 AM
A lot of people were just not Pleased with David, for a number of reasons, also i think even if you re-wrote Alien Covenant and had David in a different role i think not every fan would be pleased with a Movie Franchise (Prequels) that Center around him.
There are a FEW Problems to Contend with when looking at a Sequel.
*We need to First look and ask what role will the Colonist play, as this will determine where they go NEXT.
*We need to look at WHERE it is the Covenant Ship will be heading NEXT.
*We then need to look at WHAT would be Davids Agenda/Goal and Plans. The Longer the Destination the more Time David has to Reflect on what he would do next.
Then we are faced with the following Problems.
*Daniels knows who David is, even if David decides to have a Change of Heart, Daniels would not trust him and inform other Colonist about him. So for Davids Plans she is a Major Problem.
*Tennessee would maybe be Suspicious if Daniels dies, David would have to come up with a Very Good reason for what happened, and then its how Convincing he would be and well how Smart Tennessee is too. So maybe David would have to also take him out of the Equation.
*The Colonist would be wondering WHAT happened to the Main Crew, and it may be Suspicious if there is NO Survivors the ONLY Way David could pull this off would be to make Daniel's and Tennesse's Cryo-Pods Fail, plus the Pods for all the others or come up with some other Malfunction that KILLED all the others off. And then Amend the Records/Data on the Covenants Computer.
*David if he goes this route would then have to find a way to explain WHY he has only ONE Hand. As how would he loose that if the Ship had a Malfunction and Crew Died aboard the Ship? Then maybe David would have to come clean a bit and explain the Covenant Crew Fate how it was but OMIT what happened after the Neomorph attack. So he would explain how/why they discovered this world, but the world had some Parasitic Life Form that had Killed all the Crew and he lost his Hand in the Process.
The likely hood of Fassbender playing a ONE handed Android is slim so he would either repair his HAND with Spare Parts from Walter and give the Excuse the Covenant Crew Died on the Ship, or explain what happened on the Surface (Omitting some of it) and then either Repair himself or awaken a few Colonist to help him repair himself to cover his tracks.
ONCE you have covered and determined what happens regarding the above, then you can Start to Flesh Out/Create the rest of the PLOT.
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-04-2019 5:41 AM
Once you get to the above, you then have to Flesh Out and Create the Plot.
As a ALIEN Prequel, it will be expected to CONCLUDE with the Eggs on the Derelict and HOW/WHEN and maybe WHY and for this you have to consider HOW many Movies are there before we get to this CLIMAX. (Conclusion)
Some Fans will Expect the Next Movie to be about the Process of the Xenomorph, and would expect some kind of ALIEN Flick as in Alien Monsters vs Humans. And IF the Next Movie will NOT be about such things, then it has to have a Interesting Plot to Engage Fans and Set-Up that the Sequel would bring back the Xenomorph and a very Alieny Movie. If the Plot takes us NO closer to the Xenomorph and the Set-Up does not seem to be this way for the 2nd Sequel then Fans may simply NOT be interested.
Then we need to look at David, Some Fans are just NOT interested in his Character and it would be Hard to Persuade them otherwise, and Fans would not be so HAPPY if the Movie is to Center around Him and AI it depends how they handle AI but i am sure Not-Many Fans would want to Watch a Movie thats more Bladerunner than a Alien.
The David Creator Plot is something that Fans for the most part are not interested in, and i am sure a Majority would NOT be willing to accept that without David... there is NO Xenomorph. And so seeing David go about Creating something Else may NOT be interesting to some, it may be interesting to others. But certainly a Movie that Centers around David and what he does is something i feel many fans would not be interested in... there has to be a Balance. (i think it would be Wishful thinking to DROP or Change the David as Creator Plot, you would have to Handle this in a certain way and then determine so WHAT does David Create then?).
Engineers.... this is something that Prometheus Fans were maybe Disappointed with in regards to Alien Covenant, we never got much of a Expansion behind these guys.... then you have some fans who may only want to see the Engineers Return in a way where they are just Aggressive SOB's who turn up with their Ships and Technology to KICK ASS... and would not be interested in any of the Creator/Gods stuff. I think the Engineers would have to make a Return at some point, it certainly would have to be the Next Movie as far as Final Act or Ending or Set-up that we would see them again in the Sequel.
But the BIGGEST thing to consider is that the Movie would have to Introduce and show Humans who are in some Degree of Peril and you have to make sure they are Well Written for them to have a better Impact. You would have to introduce some NEW Characters who should have a Impact unless you Find a way to Carry over Daniels and/or Tennessee but then as mentioned in the prior post their are Complications on HOW they would do this.
And so if you introduce NEW Characters you really cant have them END up being replaced in a Sequel, we cant keep having Movies where the Characters from the Previous Movie are Killed Off apart from DAVID.
Some Fans may want more of a Action Flick.... and hope to see the incoming Humans as more Military Type or at least have a Security Team, this could work but by NO means we should NOT see a Ship with Colonial Marines Rock Up... unless this happens in the 3rd Act or Set-Up for the Sequel.
So i think the NEXT Movie should not be too ALIEN, but lead to something related, and turn into a Survival Horror, and then Set-Up that the 2nd Sequel to Alien Covenant will be more Engineers vs Xenomorph vs Marines Action Flick and Conclusion.
But even so NOT every Fan is going to be pleased....
NTFSMember92 XPJun-05-2019 8:35 AM
At the end of Alien Covenant we could see David's mind in Walter's body.
Did David overwrite Walter's memory or merged with it?
He knew the access codes to the ship and was able to find the embryo compartment but he did not remember the conversation about building a cabin at the lake.
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-05-2019 9:32 AM
Another PROBLEM with the Future of a Prequel would be the ADVENT VIRAL Video.
If this is taken as CANON, then it leads us down a Certain Path, well it indicates such and also Limits the Options a little.
By Virtue of the ADVENT we know that David has informed the company of who he is, what he has been up to and Warned them about his Creation and if they DO IT (assume pursue his Experiments/Creation) then his Creation would RULE the Galaxy.
This means the Company know that David is in Control of the Covenant and NOT friendly Walter, also the Company would know he had left LV-223 (Prometheus Mission) and had been busy elsewhere, and it appears the ADVENT was Transmitted not FAR from Planet 4 and so we have to ASSUME the Company would send Missions to LV-223 and Planet 4.
This means for David he has made a SILLY Mistake, especially if he stays on Planet 4 or goes to LV-223, as by the Time the Company Receive the ADVENT it surely would only take them about a YEAR to Send Ships and Reach both LV-223 and Planet 4. This DOES-NOT leave David long to Carry On with whatever Experiments and Agenda he has, as the Company could arrive at LV-223/Planet 4 1-2 Years (assume) after the ADVENT Transmission.
IF however David goes to Origae-6 then he would be heading AWAY further from Earth and so this would give him maybe a 2-3 Years to do what ever he wants before a Ship sent in response to the ADVENT would arrive.
So the ADVENT does Limit the Time that David has to do whatever he wants to do Next before the Company Turn up, this assumes they would make a Rapid Response to the ADVENT message however.
The OTHER dilemma we have is the ADVENT when also in Context to Alien Covenant seems to indicate David has ONE Agenda... to Mass Produce his Creation (Xenomorph) and Perfect his QUEEN.. this kind of SETS-UP a pretty Basic Plot!
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-05-2019 9:41 AM
Good Points... indeed its a bit Ambiguous, maybe things are not thought out (Oversight) or there is something more to HOW it is that David had command codes.
Its never quite clear what we see here.. as far as is this David pretending to be Walter and Cutting his Hand Off, or has David uploaded himself to Walter? I am sure Ridley Scott had indicated that its David and he Cut his Hand Off.
So then we have to ask HOW did he know/gain command codes?
Surely there would be some kind of Security Protocol for Access of Certain Elements of the Ships Command/Program?
I think regardless of HOW, i think ONCE we have David Access the System, he could then embed his own set of Commands/Programs and maybe this Explains the David Commands/Codes as he Programed them.. instead of the Ship already having such Codes.
But maybe the Ship already had them, and for this we have to ask WHY... if this is the case then this could be some Conspiracy, does someone at the Company Already know and SET-UP this Mission?
Or does AI have a Control over the Company to a Degree, with the Company NOT in the know... this is potentially a Real World Problem with AI, once we advance it so FAR and it becomes Sentient, especially if it becomes Sentient and we DONT KNOW... then it could pull all kinds of Strings behind the Scenes and as in the MATRIX we would be Oblivious to it.
Maybe this is what RS means when he talks about the Next Movie would be more about AI? who knows.
NTFSMember92 XPJun-05-2019 11:29 AM
Walter's body with David's mind
If this is the case, David can pretend to be Walter as long as he wants without retorsion.
He can wake up the crew without fear. Daniels will accuse Walter (David) for sure, but nobody is going to believe her wild stories.
Walter (David) may express his concern to the crew about Daniels' mental state . (Of course behind her back)
Walter can explain them, that she is suffering from PTSD and mild amnesia due to the previous tragedies.
He may also suggest, that the safest thing is to promote another person to be the captain of the ship. Everybody will believe the smiling Walter (David) and not the frustrated Daniels. Who would you trust? In an agitated human or a kind, professional, innocent looking robot?
In addition Walter (David) can monitor Daniels' dreams and mind activities during the journey, therefore he will know about the cabin at the lake and about her lost husband.
He will know about EVERYTHING...
dkMember8207 XPJun-05-2019 11:54 AM
There is still the matter of "Walter" repairing his face. Walter was self healing and we saw him start to heal after David stabbed his neck. Surely Daniels should have noticed?
KongzillaMember656 XPJun-05-2019 12:46 PM
Wait a second. Why people think about regeneration? Walter just closed the wound on his cheek, something like a lid or a patch. It's not a regeneration or something like that. He cannot restore all wounds.
And I think, this is not David's mind. Remember - David offers Walter a choice. And Walter made a choice. He take facehugger embryos and goes to the Covenant.
P.S. In the book, Walter can restore a whole arm!
dkMember8207 XPJun-05-2019 1:21 PM
Walter's neck wound began to heal almost immediately. It is only shown for a second or two but it is easily seen.
dkMember8207 XPJun-05-2019 2:11 PM
I think it was implied that if his neck wound self healed, then his face scratch would too.
KongzillaMember656 XPJun-05-2019 2:17 PM
I know what you mean. It's not healing, regeneration or something else.
Something moving under Walter's skin. It looks like a "cap". David moved it at the moment of impact. And after a "cap" goes back.
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-05-2019 5:09 PM
"It's not a regeneration or something like that"
It had been implied that Walter Can Regenerate, but there could be Limitations to that, in effect a Human Can Regenerate, when we have a CUT we heal but it leaves Scars sometimes, so maybe with Walter its a more Advanced Version of our Skin/Flesh Healing?
It would appear there are Limitations as Walter Clearly did-not Regenerate his Hand, and so the Regeneration must have some Limits.... i think it was the Book, where David also could Regenerate after Daniels Stabs him in the EYE?
But i have NOT read the book so i cant really be 100%
Regarding HOW different Walter and David are, you would expect some of the Crew would NOTICE any differences, unless the Prometheus Marketing is NOT Canon and David is Manufactured nearly the same as Walter?
We clearly saw Walter Heal from David's Wound, but then it seems David had Healed from Daniels Wound (under the Chin) so the Patching Up of Walter/Davids Face was ODD, but again maybe the Writers or Ridley Scott never gave it much thought and its just a OVERSIGHT!
We have to ask could Walter Heal from such Scars? If so would the Crew be aware of Walters Healing Ability and NOT even Question how come he appeared to NOT recover from those Scars on his Face (from Walter vs David Fight) a Number of times in the Franchise some details are simply not given much thought as maybe we are NOT expected to Notice and Hence they are Oversights..
So as far as the Movie i think it comes down to that David is David who simply just Steals Walters Clothes and Cuts off his HAND (RS mentioned this was what happened) or David had Uploaded himself into Walter's AI Mind!
I think either way you could ask HOW because of HOW LONG would either had taken, and it seemed Walter/David was NOT Far Behind the Escaping Crew. It could be Lazy Writing/Directing or Oversight...
But we also have to consider Pacing for the Movie... so what may seem like 3 Min on Screen, does-not mean say getting from the Cathedral to the Pick Up Point takes that Long, it likely took LONGER... Also considering that LOPE was Wounded/Injured and would not WALK too fast and that Walter/David could Run MUCH Faster than a Human.
David could claim that to the other Crew, but then Tennessee would likely take Daniels Side, for David the best option would be to TAKE them both out!
A lot depends on the PLOT.... David would NOT need the Colonist Awoken if his Intention is to Turn/Experiment on them to become Eggs/Xenomorphs... He would just awaken them ONE at a Time.... if we go this route he could maybe Awaken Daniels and keep her Captive some place.
I would assume that David does this, and has her Incapacitated or Locked Away, where he would Visit her over and over, because of his EGO... and this would allow Daniels to make a Return and having Daniels kept Locked/Chained Away could be a PLOT device that would REVEAL who David really is (to the other Humans) and his Attentions, should she be Discovered or Escape!
dkMember8207 XPJun-05-2019 5:14 PM
Back when we first saw it, I thought it was pretty much agreed that David swapped clothes with Walter. He still would have had to somehow get things like security codes and mannerisms. The cabin story may have been in a file David saw as unnecessary? Oops!
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-05-2019 5:26 PM
"In addition Walter (David) can monitor Daniels' dreams"
I think this depends... with Prometheus it is indicated that this was done via the use of the Visor Technology, its a Question of is this Technology something that is Connected/Part of the Cryo-Sleep Pods in Prometheus, by that the Visor interfaces with the Cryo-Sleep Pod or can the Visor see Dreams of a Person if they are NOT in a Cryo-Sleep Pod?
So it seems that without the Visor, David could not Monitor their Sleep/Dreams etc...
We cant Rule Out the Covenant Cryo-Pods having some kind of System where the Synthetic or Computer Systems of the Ship can Monitor a Crew Members Dreams.
Anything can be made to HAPPEN for the sake of Plot Convenience without having to explain it at all. And so you cant rule out them showing David using the Dream Visor again, and the Writers wont even explain HOW/WHERE he got this from.... it would be just a Oversight/Plot Convenience.
IF they did this, then we could ask DID he recover it from the Prometheus Wreckage? We cant rule this out as a LOT of stuff would have been Recovered from the Wreckage or Life-Boat, and its a case of would Dr Shaw allow David to obtain the Visor.... then he could have landed back on LV-223 after he was put Back Together...
Such a Concept (return to LV-223 once Dr Shaw was in Cryo-sleep) could be used to obtain the Visor, could be used to show HOW it was that David learned the Engineers Ways, and even obtain a EGG lol
Or it could be the Covenant just by Coincidence has Similar Technology?
If they did introduce something like the Dream Visor again, its more likely they WOULD-NOT explain where it came from.... it would be a Plot Convenience/Oversight that they would not bother with (like the Egg on the Sulaco in Alien 3)
They just dont go into Loads of Detail in Movies so Ambiguity is what we get, they can explain more in the BOOKS because you dont have to worry about Pacing or Time Restraints of a Movie.
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-05-2019 5:40 PM
" The cabin story may have been in a file David saw as unnecessary? Oops!"
Indeed thats a ODD thing to Forget if he had acquired Walters Memories... but we can assume he did acquire them because HOW-ELSE would he have the Security Codes?
If you was David and had some way to Transfer/Hook up with Walter then with Limited Time you would maybe only want to Access Specific things and so Security Codes would be a Priority if your Next Plan is to Take Control of the Ship.
But ALAS... this could simply be down to Lazy Writing and/or just not seeing it Important to Explain everything or maybe not even being bothered to have a Explanation.
I do think as far as the Sequel... certainly if David is to Charade as Walter and Interact with some of the Colonist, then at some point we would see David being able to Interface with a Walter...
Because a PLOT Convenience would be if there are WALTER Spare Parts as Walter is a piece of Technology/Machine and if he is IMPORTANT to the Mission, then it would be SILLY to not have Parts to Maintain him in the Event of Serve Damage that his Regenerative Ability can-not Repair.
Because can we really expect Fassbender to play a ONE HANDED Android all Movie?
So does David have Spares he can Replace the HAND? are the Walter Hands Compatible with the David Model?
So this opens up the Possibility of there being parts to BUILD a New Walter, in which the Walter Model would then Transfer his AI Memory etc to in the EVENT of Critical Damage.
The Question then comes down to HOW-MANY such Spare Parts are there and HOW-MANY such Walters can be Built? But this could lead to Potentially David Building more than ONE of Himself/Walter or the Colonist/Daniels building another Walter to Save the Day... but i think we have seen enough of such Doppelganger Shenanigans in Alien Covenant.
But Ridley Scott claimed the Next Movie is more about AI and so who knows how much he meant by this!
NTFSMember92 XPJun-06-2019 1:49 AM
A lot depends on the Plot...
David can pretend to be Walter. He could claim that to Tennessee and the other crew.
Daniels will definitely accuse Walter and will ask Tennessee to take her side.
Eventually Tennessee must decide who to believe. To whom will he believe? The stressed women or the calm android? This decision will be difficult for him and he will make a mistake.
Tennessee may issue the following command to the mainframe computer:
- "Mother, identify this android, please!"
Then the mother computer will identify the android as Walter and will report his details (manufacturing date, model number, serial number, repaired hand and neck injuries and an intact system).
Tennessee will believe what mother says.
As a precaution they will revoke Walter's access rights to the ship. They may regret this decision later, because Walter (David) will not be able to issue commands, unable to reenter the ship and unable to fetch vital equipment from the ship.
Then the drama continues...
Walter (David) may reveal his real identity to Daniels later, but it will not matter anymore.
"For David the best option would be to take them both out! "
No! This would waste the talents of two key characters.
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-06-2019 5:42 AM
I think maybe that could work, the Character of Tennessee does seem a bit of a Rebel, i would be inclined to think he would Trust Daniels, but we could have Mother Confirm that David is Walter, this would especially work if David has transferred his MIND into Walter on Planet 4 or he uses a Spare Body of Walter on the Ship.
Daniels could be seen as unstable and David could get Tennessee to take Charge and have Daniels restricted to Medical Assessment/Quarantine for Stress and Related.
So we cant rule out such a idea.... then it would have to be at some point that Tennessee does Discover who David is, and then realizes that Daniels is Not Mentally Broken/Stressed.
"No! This would waste the talents of two key characters."
Certainly and this is the Problem with the Ending of Alien Covenant, with Daniels aware of who David is, then he would have to think about his own Agenda and HOW this effects it and this depends on the PLOT.
If he awakens the Crew/Colonist a few or ONE at a time, where is Agenda is to Experiment on them ONE-BY-ONE etc, then it would not matter if he KILLS or keeps them alive.
If HOWEVER..... David wishes to set down on a World and attempt to Construct/Build a Colony or Buildings then he would NEED some of the Colonist and this would raise the following.
*The Colonist would maybe be weary if Tennessee and Daniels are DEAD, and so David would have to make a Good Excuse/Reason for this.
*If Daniels is Killed, then regardless of what excuse David gives you could expect Tennessee to maybe be Weary and Suspicious of Walter.
*If Daniels is kept alive then its a case of HOW does David/Walter convince her she must have had a Bad Dream, would she come around to Believe she was Dreaming? If not then INDEED having her shown as Unstable and suffering from Delusions etc could work.
I think Certainly as FAR as the Movie goes you would be better off to carry on the Characters from before, and Killing them Off-Screen or even at the Start would not be ideal as basically we saw this with Alien Covenant where Dr Shaw was killed off screen and Engineers via Flash Back.
The idea i had after AC release for the Sequel (Alien Ascension) i had a few Variations, but half of the 4 variants i had it that David was seen as a Savior of the Mission were it was suggested Daniels was killed by Tennessee and reveal that Tennessee was part of the Group who tried to Sabotage the Mission (as covered in the AC Origins Book) But Daniels was kept alive in some Dark Place where she is Discovered at some point.
When i was talking about this "For David the best option would be to take them both out! " I was talking about from is POV, depending on what his Agenda is.
IF he is going to just Experiment on the Colonist then he has NO other need for them, he can just Awaken them as required and so it would NOT matter if Daniels is Killed or kept alive, more likely he would KEEP her Alive.
IF however he intends on setting up the Colony as Planned by the Colonist/Crew then potentially Daniels knowing who he is would be a Problem for him.
The part where Daniels asked about the Cabin on the Lake should have been left out, while it brings a sense of Despair/Horror for Daniels, you could have revealed the Truth to her in the NEXT Movie. The Audience would know (if not already) who David is after Daniels is Safely Tucked into Sleep Blissfully Unaware of the Horrors that could be in Store... We then get to the Ending HOW we did with David asking for Wagner to be Played and Regurgitating the Face Hugger Embryo's
This would have left the Plot for the Next Movie to not have to find a way to Tackle that Daniels is in the KNOW. What we would have had is a BETTER Platform for a Sequel as Daniels and Co set up the Colony, Build a Cabin on the Lake, Happy while she has some Memories of the Horrors before.
THIS would make it more of a IMPACT when she Discovers at a latter point that David is Walter via some Actions he may be up to/caught in the Act of...
But this is what happens when Writers DONT consider how any Revelations/Plots from the Movie could Limit/Effect the Potential for the Sequel.
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-06-2019 6:00 AM
I think another thing to consider is the TITLE.... i was reported that ALIEN AWAKENING was the Title for Blomkamps Alien 3 Reboot, in which case we could assume the AWAKENING could be about a awakening of the Xenomorph after believing that it was Destroyed 20+ years prior (Hadleys Hope).
IF it is the Title for the AC Sequel then the Awakening again would be assumed to connect to the Xenomorph but we already saw the Xenomorph Awakening as in Creation from Alien Covenant, so HOW else could Awakening be linked to the Xenomorph? A Evolution of Davids Creation to become more Intelligent and NOT Feral? Maybe!
Could it be regarding the Space Jockey Race (reveal another Origin) or those above the Engineers or Engineers themselves? Maybe.....
Could it be a Awakening because we will LEAD into ALIEN and so this is the Awakening of ALIEN Plot... but then this would be Tricky if Alien Awakening does-not lead Directly to ALIEN...
Could it be the Awakening of the Original Xenomorph (Wishful Thinking).
We need to WONDER what Ridley Scott meant by the Movie would NOT be about the Xenomorph and so that RULES out most of the above....
He said the Movie would be about AI....If the AWAKENING is about a Awakening of AI then this would upset a lot of Fans as they would think the Prequels should then have the ANDROID Prefix and not ALIEN... and so would distract further from ALIEN.
The thing with AI is what context does this mean? Ridley Scott in related Interview said the Replicants are AI so we dont have to think about ROBOTS.
The AI Plot could cover for example any of the below.
*A Plot that Revolves purely around David, maybe with him Upload his Mind to a New Body and the Ships Computer.
*A Plot that reveals that Rogue AI is in control of the Company/Ships and that David (or Weyland) played a Role in this AI/MUTHUR interface Origins.
*David using Multiple Synthetics from Spare Parts or effecting the Loyalty of incoming Synthetics on incoming Ships.
*The Creation/Evolution/Enhancement of Artificial Life, for example the Genetic Engineering of the Human Embryos.
*Revelations of the LV-223 Engineers compared to their Masters/Original Engineers (think Engineer Replicants).
This are all possible ways that the Movie could be about AI, and maybe ONE or more could be used?
But as i have said a lot, i am not sure Many Fans would want any of this and the Expectations would be that a ALIEN Prequel will have to cover the Xenomorph or Similar to more extent than say Alien Covenant did, or at least have them featured Half as much but Set-Up a more Xenomorph Heavy sequel!
cuponator3000Member838 XPJun-06-2019 7:08 AM
@BigDave, good points as always. In regards to Advent, it is interesting that he would make such a decision. It is actually a tad disappointing that it is revealed tp Wey-Yu in this manner. Such an epic quest begin due to the intro of blu-ray bonus material. Still, if he did canonically send that message (or one at all), then it just sets up the company being one of the 3-4 players that Scott mentions.
Oh and as for David/Walter mind, would be an interesting task to put that in an Alien movie. Two AIs battling it out in one mind/body. Still, I don't totally think that they switched bodies! I know its hard to believe that David could have switched clothes, cut his hand, and face in that short time. The other issue is his voice, which seems like the most unbeivable fox of them all. Even though they havn't really been shown as superhuman in the franchise so far, they are probably capable of moving pretty fast, accurately, etc. So the clothes, hand, and cuts are pretty easy for me to accept him changing. And that one code that he has for The Covenant is, "David57634blahblah...." I have come to thinking that he, being Weyland's pet, was given lots of access. He can probably use that code, or many others that he has, to get him into almost anywhere in a Weyland-Yutani facility or what have you. That is a slight stretch, considering the merger with Yutani might lead to some problems, but I would think Weyland comapny kept plenty of secrets.
setaverdeMember278 XPJun-06-2019 9:19 AM
Ridley Scott has produced taboo, the man in the high Castle, the hot zone and he is producing raised by wolves. He produces This TV series, using his company, Scott free and the resources are massive.
Here's a link that describes the production of 'raised by wolves' in the city Cape town, of south Africa.
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-06-2019 9:54 AM
It is interesting to PONDER who those 3-4 Incoming Parties/Players are, by Virtue of Ridley Scott not being clear it could be that the 3/4 means ONE party is connected.
So we maybe have TWO Different Parties then another TWO that may be similar?
TWO Human Missions?
TWO Types of Engineers?
Or could it imply that maybe Walter would accompany One Group?
1) What he had Confirmed is the Engineers are ONE of the incoming Players/Parties.
2) With the Advent Message surely the Company would send a Mission to Intercept/Arrive at where David is going.
So that Gives us TWO of the Incoming 3-4 Parties.
For Ridley Scott to not be quite sure about 3/4 means that ONE Party is either Very Connected or that TWO Different Parties will arrive together?
I think we also have to look at WHY the Covenant Mission was planned, it was a attempt at some Humans to Escape from what Kind of a World the Earth has become... to escape a Rotting Paradise so to speak... Would other Humans also want to have a peace of that PIE that is Origae-6? Would those who Organized the Covenant Mission send another Ship with Supplies?
So maybe we could have another Human Ship on route or even sent, and this Party is NOT aware of the Advent or what had Happened to the Covenant?
Who knows..... i would assume that a more Prepared Science/Military Ship would be sent at some point and maybe account for ONE of the Parties.
The Engineers had been CONFIRMED as ONE of the Parties and RS had said they arrive back at Planet 4 and Discover the Destruction of their World and they would want to FIND the Culprit.... But HOW?
How can the Engineers know where David is going? all they would detect is a Crashed Juggernaught, and its Hologram Recordings that would Confirm it came from LV-223 and on board was TWO Humanoids (one being Dr Shaw) this along with the Bodies of the Fallen Covenant Crew, would allow the Engineers to know that Humans had been there but then assuming Earth is the ONLY place that Humans are, then this would ONLY draw the Engineers to Earth!
Unless Planet 4 can Track the Covenant ship... but for how FAR?
Would a Engineer Ship arrive when the Covenant is still close by? But then surely they would Intercept the Covenant way before it arrives at Origae-6
Could they had determined anything from the Wreckage of the Lander or Equipment etc left behind by the Covenant Crew?
I would assume its likely that they Discover Walter and some how they get the Information from him, maybe drag him to their ship and get him to Point out the Star System. I would assume this is the likely way the Engineers would know where David was going.
So i think its possible the 3-4 Parties are...
*Incoming Human Ship to Origae-6 unaware of the Advent and what had happened to the Covenant/David
*A separate Human Ship more prepared that is sent as a result of the Advent and some of the Crew know about what happened to the Covenant/David
*Engineer Ship/Ships that arrive on Planet 4 and then off to Origae-6
*Walter taken by the Engineers to point out where David had gone.
Regarding David and the Codes, indeed he could have had access to some Priority Codes and maybe Weyland had some Default Set of Control Codes, and David had access to these.
I think ONCE he can Access the Ship he could then make many Programs and Codes to use at WILL. So he could have accessed with Walters Codes, or some Default Skeleton Code thats Embedded (but why would Yutani allow this?) I think maybe the David Codes could have been something that David had Programed ONCE he had Accessed the Ship some other way (Walter Codes)
But we could maybe consider many Conspiracy to how the Covenant would have had David Codes/Commands prior to the Mission Setting Off...
hoxMember416 XPJun-06-2019 12:06 PM
I thought Ridley said the script for the next instalment had already been written, a couple of years ago?
setaverdeMember278 XPJun-06-2019 12:59 PM
@hox, they have a draft that needs to be worked, or, according to the new management, they, Ridley Scott and Scott free productions, have to bring to the table a new draft with a new story.
setaverdeMember278 XPJun-06-2019 1:01 PM
@hox, they have a draft that needs to be worked, or, according to the new management-Disney, they, Ridley Scott and Scott free productions, have to bring to the table a new draft with a new story to be approved.
hoxMember416 XPJun-06-2019 2:11 PM
Great. Studio interference! Like that works really well!
setaverdeMember278 XPJun-06-2019 7:43 PM
Nobody is really free in This world.
Freedom is a mirage.
That's why i like the Xenomorph. Rules of society don't apply to him. He makes the rules. Not even David, with his melagalomaniac ego, controls his actions. Untamed by nature, unpredictable to humans, beings with minds caged by the rules of their society. Mankind is no pair to a threat like the perfect organism.
Oblivion is always on the Next corner, inflicted by a creation, an Unknown specie or self-inflicted.
We are the end, our end.
Hope is despair.
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-07-2019 6:58 AM
It certainly looked like they had got quite far as far as what the Next Movie (Alien Awakening) would be about, during various Interviews/Press/Promotion Appearances between May-July 2017 we did hear Ridley Scott make a number of comments regarding the Next Movie.
He had said in some of them that they are WORKING on it right now (Script) and then he had also mentioned another time about its been Done and FINISHED, so there was quite a bit of Contradiction, but it likely meant as of the Run Up to the Release of Alien Covenant that had the Plot/Story for the Sequel Underway and that after the Release of AC that must have COMPLETED at least ONE Draft.
But we have to remember its RARE that a Single Draft would get the Go Ahead and so they was likely working on Re-Writes too at this Time.
At a latter point Emma Watts had came out and said that there is a Future for the Alien Franchise as she said its about FINDING the Right Story.
so it could be likely that the STORY for a AC2 was something that the Producers and Company Executives had not been 100% Pleased with and then with the Take Over Talks, things got put on HOLD.
So its likely that Ridley Scott and his Team had a Idea where they want to take the Next Prequel, but it could be that after the Project had been put on HOLD due to Take Over Talks, that its NOW a case of if those at Disney are interested in the Direction/Plot that RS had intended at the time of Alien Covenants Release?
"Great. Studio interference! Like that works really well!"
Certainly but as the ones who would be FUNDING the Project they are likely to look at what went WRONG with Alien Covenant, and take On-board some of the Criticism and even they can then make Mistakes on Assuming they know what would SELL.
Alien Covenant is Proof of that.. ;)
"Nobody is really free in This world. "
Thats a Good Point, indeed not very many do get 100% Freedom there is always someone in Control, some of us are more Lucky than others on where we Live. Its a Good Point because it relates to what RS had said regarding Religion in that it has been something that had been used through History to Control and used to Make War and other Atrocities in the name of GOD/Religion.
So in context to the Franchise, then Religion would be seen as a Governing Set of Rules to get Mankind to Behave in Certain ways, which we Eventually started to Behave in ways that UPSET the Engineers.
The Covenant Mission was a attempt to start a NEW a FRESH start on a New Eden, to escape the Rotting Paradise or Earth and the Various Problems this World Faces...
The Plot for Raised by Wolves reads Very Similar, there are TWO Androids Tasked with setting up a NEW Eden for Mankind by Raising Children (away from Influences that had lead to Conflict on Earth) but then some Incoming Humans come along with Various Religious Beliefs and NO doubt other Ideas/Ways of Life and its likely the ANDROIDS become Concerned on how these will PASS ON and Corrupt/Effect the New Paradise for a New Dawn of Mankind that they are trying to RAISE.
And Discover that this because a Difficult Task... as Knowledge can Corrupt Absolutely.
It seems pretty much similar to the Plot i Interpreted for Alien Covenant 2 and my ideas i then had for HOW this could pan out, when looking at RS comments and thinking so WHAT could this mean...
So i do feel that maybe Raised by Wolves could be using some of the Plot Ideas for Alien Awakening that are likely to NEVER make it into any Sequel to Alien Covenant should ONE see the Light of Day.
So INDEED i think its likely that IF they are working on a Sequel NOW or SOON then it could be likely a Number of Elements/Plots from the Ideas they had April-July 2017 would likely NOT make it and WHEN/IF we do get a Sequel it could be MUCH more about the Xenomorph!
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-07-2019 7:14 AM
"Not even David, with his melagalomaniac ego, controls his actions. Untamed by nature, unpredictable to humans, beings with minds caged by the rules of their society. Mankind is no pair to a threat like the perfect organism."
I think potentially they could have shown us WHY the Company would Pursue the Xenomorph if they go a certain route with the Prequels.
The Xenomorph so FAR is a Unfinished Project, a Work in Progress, and RS had said before that the Xenomorph still has some Evolving to Go before we reach ALIEN.
Ridley Scott said the Movie would be more about AI.... and so we could maybe Wonder if down the Road we see David does Evolve his Xenomorphs, but maybe also he Creates another Race that maybe has some Traits that apply or could apply to the Xenomorph (Humanoids with a Hive Mind) for example.
We do see that David has some Control of the Xenomorph, maybe he could Control it Further as he Evolves it past the Feral Stages... While on the other Hand he could Create a Humanoid Race that are Superior and have some kind of Hive Mind.... when these Rebel against David, he could Unleash the Xenomorph but instead the Xenomorph's that infect these Humanoids somehow Maintain the Hive-Mind link and are THUS controlled by his Creations (Humanoids) or Act Independently.
This may require David to then infect some Normal Humans to Produce Xenomorphs he could Control?
Surely the Engineers could take a Interest in David's Creations and WISH to Experiment on them and this is LIKELY how we would have got to LV-223 and then the Space Jockey/Derelict Event
If David has left notes or the Company Discover that David was able to CONTROL some of the Xenomorph's then it would give the COMPANY a Greater Reason to Pursue the Xenomorph as they could TRY and figure out HOW it is that David could Control them to a Degree.
The Franchise However shows us that they Failed to even Obtain and Control any...... Alien Resurrection they had came Close to Containing them but before any Experiments could Begin the Xenomorphs got LOOSE!
When we look at Blomkamps Ideas for his Alien 3 Reboot and some of the Concept Work released which includes Carlos Huante's then it seems to show a Company/Military has actually began to TRY and Control the Xenomorphs via various Experiments and Devices Attached/Connected to the Xenomorphs.
ULTIMATELY as you mention.... " Mankind is no pair to a threat like the perfect organism."
And so its a Futile Folly to attempt to Control the Beast.
ignorantGuyMember892 XPJun-07-2019 10:47 AM
@BigDave Go watch I am Mother on Netflix is more or less the thing you describe.
BigDaveMember9757 XPJun-07-2019 3:35 PM
I dont have Netflix, but seems interesting, you can see influences from ALIEN as in the AI Name... you can kind of see Similarities to what the Covenant Mission was about, if we considered or example that the Ship only had Embryos and Walter
So there indeed are some similarities to maybe what in PART we could had seen in Alien Covenants Sequel, Certainly in RS TV Show Raised by Wolves.
Having only seen the Plot i think its quite Predictable, we have a Robot that is Tasked with Raising a Child and informing the Child the World above is Destroyed, we then Discover this is NOT True, via the Woman who gains Access to the Underground Complex, we then see that Robots have began to Overtake the World.
The Girl would become Confused at this... who is telling the Truth, is her MOTHER different to those other Robots? I would assume the Robot (Mother) informs her that she is TRYING to give Mankind a New Start and is tasked with Raising a New Humanity.
Mother will inform the Daughter she is NOT on the same side as the other ROBOTS and is trying to Save Humanity, but later she would have to make another Story Up... Were i predict she would inform her Daughter that Mankind has become Corrupt and out of Control and Destroying the World and Each other, and so this Mankind has to be Destroyed and a New Dawn of Mankind Raised without the Corruption and Ways of previous Mankind.
We would then be led to this being the TRUTH... but then we get a Curve-Ball Sinister Twist that this New Mankind are to be raised as SLAVES to the ROBOTS who rule the World, but those Robots must First Eradicate Mankind from Above.
Could be wrong, but this is what the Trailer plus adding a bit of Intuition draws me too.... But then when i discussed quite some time ago about "What kind of World" Plot does RS mean/intend for AC2 i made some Intuitive Assumptions with that too... only we may never KNOW if the real AC2 Plot would have been anything like i had been drawn to.
I am Mother certainly seems something Interesting to Check Out, i will have to Consider a Subscription at some point as The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance is something i would be interested in too ;)
NTFSMember92 XPSep-26-2019 12:44 PM
The script may ready by now.
I hope the new story use much less Profanity than the previous two chapters.
Avoiding profanity in films is not bigotry! The characters who swear in films are less likable or not likable at all by the viewers.
There are plenty of other ways to express anger, discontentment or frustration.
NTFSMember92 XPSep-26-2019 1:26 PM
Would like to hear David saying his catch-phrase in the new episode.
"It is perfectly safe."
"It is not perfectly safe."
"It may not be perfectly safe."
BigDaveMember9757 XPSep-26-2019 3:42 PM
"The script may ready by now."
It would be interesting to see how FAR they got with any Scripts...
I wonder when Ridley Scotts TV Series Raised by Wolves is released if he may give some indication of the Alien Franchise Future in Interviews.
At this Moment i do think that IF we get a Prequel Continuation then i feel it would likely be something that would be back to the Drawing Board or Certainly Changed a lot to Please Fans... compared to what the Direction may have been intended as of say SUMMER 2017
I would not rule out that we arrive on Origae-6 in the Year 2115 with a Incoming Human Colony Ship with supplies and the Ship is expecting to Arrive at a Colony the Covenant should have began setting up...
They arrive in the aftermath of what ever David had intended and its gone to POT!.... were we see David as just a Head! or Broken/Damaged.
Hell Breaks Loose..... maybe the 3rd Act we see a Weyland-Yutani Military Ship arrive.. We will have Eggs and Xenomorphs...
Then a Sequel would be the Weyland-Yutani set up a Study/Outpost on Origae-6 and then the Engineers Rock up in the 2nd Act.... and the 3rd Act would lead us to ALIEN.
Engineers then Bugger Off with the Eggs, intend to take them to LV-223 and things go to POT!
Weyland Yutani discover the Eggs had ended up on LV-426 and set up Special Order 937
joolsMember11 XPOct-21-2019 3:32 AM
A bit of topic but something i had always wondered if there was not a mini series or spin off idea...
In my mind one of the most interesting ideas around "Prometheus" was the David 8 ad campaign and TED talk done by Peter Weyland.
I would like to know more about Peter Weyland, his early life and rise to a kind of elon musk level tech entrepreneur. Building the prototype atmosphere processor in Antarctica to reverse global warming, truly renewable energy, space exploration & building the tech for a new weyland era... oh, and curing cancer.
What effect would this have on the world and its people.
The beginning of AI (Mother & David) within the company, and how this may shape the direction and achievements the organisation takes.
Show a world transitioning from our current world to the golden era promised by weyland corporate videos and product adverts.
Follow key workers from various levels within the company, and their perspective from within the corporate machinery as they build this brave new world. Maybe each one is a key contributor to future weyland tech ambition.
What's happening behind the scenes, what choices are being made by Peter and the people building this fledgling empire.
What is motivating Peter to build this empire, and who is helping fund it.
And the tech just keeps getting smarter, more powerful and more connected.
Does mother have a hand in any of the choices made by all the characters. Is she gaming the characters for another purpose... possibly leveraging David and Peter in their choices.
I have always thought that Mother could have been in the background... pulling strings, playing a strategy.
All these threads connecting together could be a pretty cool sandbox to play in, possibly even connect some motivations and decisions made by all our synthetic characters in the previous Ridley Scott & James Cameron Alien films.
Looking forward to the next film!
BigDaveMember9757 XPOct-21-2019 2:53 PM
Nice to see someone who sees there is MORE to the Franchise than Xenomorphs ;)
Certainly the Weyland Company History and Rivalry with Yutani is something that would be Interesting to Cover in a TV Series ;)
Particularity with A.I as in the Weyland Viral Marketing for Prometheus it indicated that their was a Law Suit between Yutani and Weyland over Synthetics Patents which Weyland had WON... so could Peter had Stolen some ideas? Worked with a Scientist who NOW works for Yutani, and who worked Hand/Hand with Weyland prior but Weyland was SMART so that he could WIN the Patents and Screw Over the other Scientist? or was this is Back Up Plan as he suspected his Partner would Double Cross him and take their Work to Yutani?
"I have always thought that Mother could have been in the background... pulling strings, playing a strategy."
This is something i was drawn too, as far as A.I that is running the SHOW, with most of Mankind not in the know... I further expected this A.I would be either Weylands Transcended Soul or David's
These are all what made a Majority of my Prometheus Sequel, where this was known as Project Rook, and explained the reason WHY we had David Created, and WHY in the END we see Weyland had turned to Dr Shaw and her Would-Be Gods Adventure.
In my Prometheus 2, we discover Weyland had Perfected a Near Immortal Vessel (David) but he could-not Perfect the Method to Transfer a Human Soul to a A.I to be uploaded to said Vessel.
The Programing could not handle Human Emotions and would always END-UP becoming Unstable and become MAD... and Weyland would NOT want any kind of Immortality where he would become MAD/CRAZY! and Unstable to the point of breaking down!
Weylands Programing had allowed for Synthetics to Handle a Degree of Human Emotion.... but it WOULD-NOT be able to Handle a Full Human Soul of Emotions, as it would just Overload!
In my Prometheus 2... a Vickers Synthetic Activates Project Rook which Transcends Weylands Soul to the Computer Networks.
I was also going to show signs that David would be Overwhelmed in Prometheus 3 by Discoveries he and Dr Shaw made and New Emotions/Enlightenment... and he would then also Overload! And go Crazy!
I abandoned the Projects Early 2014 However..
xenofanlv426Member93 XPNov-10-2019 3:17 AM
As far as I'm concerned, Ridley can't repair what has already broken. Covenant had great potential, but flopped at the box office, last time I checked it only made $70 million. In my opinion, Blomkamp's Alien 5 should have been made and afterwards, Scott's prequels should have been made. But as we all know, Neill Blomkamp's Alien 5 is dead in the water thanks to Ridley and Fox.