Nov-17-2018 11:49 AM
C'mon, Let Riddlers finish his prequels!
Fox/Ridley agreed to go down this genesis path with Prometheus.
Disney see it through, give us closure then they can move it forward with a new direction :)
Nov-17-2018 5:09 PM
Totally Agree I Raptus
Regarding the location of LV-426 i think its one of those things that could be misinterpreted or indeed RS was hinting that they will be heading to LV-426 as far as this is where they will be taking us at the Climax of the Prequels.
But again i could be wrong for assuming that we wont be going to LV-426 next...
I think we need to take into account the over-all comments that RS has mentioned regarding the Xenomorph and where they are taking us next.... his comments seem to indicate the next movies plans will not be a very ALIENY movie as far as Xenomorphs running wild...
His comments about AI and how he sees this as the greater threat, and about how he felt he was ahead of the curve with Prometheus..... and how he feels the Xenomorph has nearly ran its course and you have to bring something NEW.
How he said the next movie would be more about AI, and asking "what kind of a world would David build"
They dont add up to me to suggest the next movie he will head to LV-426 and set up shop and start to create loads of Eggs and then the 3-4 Parties arrive and its WAR! But that certainly seems a likely set up for the 4th Prequel that would likely connect to ALIEN
We have to ask what is there on LV-426?
The Derelict? Yes back at the time before the U-Turn Plot about David creating the Xenomorph. at the time of Prometheus we had Ridley Scott confirm the Derelict was taken to LV-426 a Baron World. We had the Prometheus Viral Website that indicated they knew of the Signal.
But a lot of this Information has been Ret-Conned with Alien Covenant, from WHEN David was Created, to the Origins of the Xenomorph.... so i would assume the idea at the time of Alien Covenant and Set-Up would be that in the Time-Line the Prequels are at (2105) there is NO Derelict on LV-426
We have to ask what is on LV-426 for David then? Outposts? and Engineer Ships? But then this would conflict the Franchise as we have to assume the only Xenomorphs on LV-426 are the Derelicts Cargo Hold.
But they could change things... maybe even i am mistake and the Plan is LV-426 and they can use the unused concepts of the Egg Silos. It would be more ideal for the Engineers to Experiment on LV-223 and then Store Eggs on LV-426.... or if they Discovered the Eggs on LV-426 they then transport for Re-Engineering on LV-223.
Those would make sense in that context..
But i think the plan was to have it that DAVID is the Creator of the Xenomorph...
I suspect he will go to Planet 4, start some kind of NEW LIFE with the Colonist..... then people turn up and David gets rumbled.... the %$£^$ Hits the Fan more when the Engineers arrive.... and i think we will be set up for a 3rd Alien: Prequel
Were we will see the Final Piece to the Jigsaw that Evolves Davids Xenomorphs and shows how they end up on a Engineer Ship heading towards LV-426.... which to mean means a Stop-Off at LV-223 for some Experimentation/Mass Production.
It all comes down to Davids Agenda... what he wants to do next and WHY?
If it is purely to Mass Produce his Xenomorphs and use them on Mankind then heading to LV-223 would be the Place to Go Next! But this would be a movie more about the Xenomorph and does not fit with RS comments about it being more about AI and what kind of a WORLD he would build.
A Problem with going to LV-223 if this is Davids Agenda would be IF he has concerns the Engineers may turn back up on Planet 4.... with No Ships he could leave in... it would certainly give him Good Reasons to want to escape with the Covenant and so IF he is Clever and Wise he would be concerned that he CANT stay on Planet 4, and that going to LV-223/426 would be a place that the Engineers could turn up too, and also Weyland-Yutani. And so going to Origae-6 may make more sense even if he wishes to Create more Xenomorphs.
Also have to ponder all of sudden after the what kind of world a Android would build with Human Colonist in for the ride that would be more about Artificial Intelligence Plot for the sequel.... has been put on Indefinite Hold...
Has RS wondered if his ideas will NEVER see the light of day and so he is taking some of those to be used with his SCI-FI Series Raised by Wolves?
I think taking a look at the more Anti Xenomorph comments, where he sees the Focus should not be on the Beast, and his interest in AI and the Prometheus Themes... and HOW it appears the plan was at least TWO movies more before we get to ALIEN.
I just cant see him going to LV-426 in the next movie, and then have another movie after that were we get to the Derelict/Space Jockey Event...... But thats just my take on what has been said and the Set-Up... i could be way off base!
Nov-19-2018 7:26 AM
It could be interesting to see what would happen on LV-426 if we would see any scenes happening there which is not to say that would be the case. Having the Engineers back would be interesting but I wonder how much that we would see of them. Hopefully we will see more of them compared to David but I am probably wrong about that unfortunately.
If this would happen then I wonder how they would explain the space-jockey.
“Whether or not Scott gets to conclude his Prometheus trilogy has yet to be seen...”
This depends on what they have planned and how the script is. If there will be more weak characters and more David then no thanks, but if they will get the characters right and less David and more Engineers then sure. Yes I am interested but I have so many doubts about this and it will likely end up as a Covenant 2 at least that is how it sounds like from Scott. *sigh*
My worry is that they will focus even more on David (AI) in the next movie and to me that sounds totally crappy. I want a movie with well-written human characters that fight threats that they are not prepared for. Unfortunately according to Scott or what he wants to see is that we will see more AI and by that I bet that he means more about androids an I am not the least interested in that.
"what kind of a world would David build"
That is exactly what my response above is about, it would be more about David and I do not care.
“But then this would conflict the Franchise as we have to assume the only Xenomorphs on LV-426 are the Derelicts Cargo Hold.”
OK but that could hint that David just made his own version so that would be better.
“But i think the plan was to have it that DAVID is the Creator of the Xenomorph...”
F no! That is pure crap so they got to change that.
“Were we will see the Final Piece to the Jigsaw that Evolves Davids Xenomorphs and shows how they end up on a Engineer Ship heading towards LV-426.... which to mean means a Stop-Off at LV-223 for some Experimentation/Mass Production.”
Yeah maybe at least that would be better than to let David have the final say.
“A Problem with going to LV-223 if this is Davids Agenda would be IF he has concerns the Engineers may turn back up on Planet 4....”
He seems to be too narcissistic to count on that. Correct me if I am mistaken but it could be a possibility.
“Also have to ponder all of sudden after the what kind of world a Android would build with Human Colonist in for the ride that would be more about Artificial Intelligence Plot for the sequel.... “
I do not care
“I think taking a look at the more Anti Xenomorph comments, where he sees the Focus should not be on the Beast, and his interest in AI...”
That sounds totally crappy
Nov-19-2018 11:06 PM
All I can say is that Prometheus and AC both had strengths and weaknesses and if the next one doesn't tie things together, then it will be time to put the franchise to bed at least cinematically.
Nov-20-2018 11:25 AM
While trying to not be disrespectful as we all have different opinions, i do find it VERY limiting to what can be shown if we go to LV-426 i know looking at certain other places people discus the Franchise their is a Slight Optimism with the News that the Sequel would be going to LV-426!
Sadly a lot of the Fanboy Magazines are Misinterpreting the Information, i assume that is... and their wishful thinking could be setting them up for a Disappointment.
WHAT is on LV-426?
*Derelict? maybe those wishful thinkers may wish so, but EVEN if this is the case HOW can we have TWO movies that lead to ALIEN that start with David going to LV-426 and discovering the Derelict?
*A Outpost/Egg Silos? maybe but we have to ask what was the point of Prometheus with LV-223... but i guess we cant assume that LV-223 is the only Outpost and maybe the Engineers had another next door.... but then WHY is this not discovered in ALIENS and WHY do they only pursue Ripley for the Xenomorph in Alien 3... explaining away WHY bother when there is ONE outpost is bad enough but TWO?
*The Xenomorph Home-world? .... but again clues even as far back as the 90's suggest the Xenomorph was a Bio-Weapon and discovering LV-426 is the Home-world or Was of some Alien Species is maybe wishful thinking and then we have to ask WHY Pursue Ripley in Alien 3
So its a case of what kind of PLOT/MOVIE can we have if David goes to LV-426? Answers on a Post Card please! But even if we do go this route, the only answer would be IF this Planet is Habitable by the Time of Alien Covenant, and NOT a Baron Waste-Land... But then WHY does the Prometheus Mission not detect this, or the Covenant and visit it... so for those who think Origae-6 is LV-426 i cant see it... unless Logans Writing is absolute £!"$%£^
I think this is the Problem we have NOW.... the Fanbase is mixed, while RS may feel something NEW is needed, and the Beast is Cooked, you have some who think the Xenomorph is needed and its a case of WHERE is the Queen!
The Problem is while some think RS ideas are interesting and a Thought Provoking you have some who rather have Marines and a Heroine running away from and then gunning down Xenomorphs!
Then you have some who are in the Middle... the Problem is ANY Alien Prequel and especially those who have a ALIEN Prefix and will connect to ALIEN ... this already sets up the expectation that it will be about the Xenomorph!
They should have stuck to their GUNS and not gave the fans what they wanted as far as a Spoon Fed Xenomorph and Derelict set of Prequels and RS should have been allowed to carry on with something else... and the Fans who spit the dummy out and want Xenomorphs should be told that THIS is not a Direct Alien Franchise!
Problem NOW is they have gave in to those Fans, and Alien Covenant kind of Dangled a Carrot in front of them... by having a sequel that will be LESS ALIEN is the same as when Prometheus Dangled a Carrot about the Engineers and Dr Shaws Questions etc... then we got Alien Covenant that brushed them under the CARPET!
I think in Hindsight a lot of the ideas and themes RS had for Prometheus should have been made into a different Stand Alone Movie.... and they maybe should have made the Prequel about turning up to a Derelict and give them a PopCorn Fanboy Movie.
The more we see the Xenomorph the more it be just like ANOTHER ZOMBIE movie! I find the Creation and AI interesting and some dont... well some also like Queens and Ripley! and im BORED!!! of that...
What they need to do is try and Balance those who are a Fan of the AI/Creation stuff and those who want Xenomorphs... try and cover a little of BOTH!
But the Main Focus should be on the Engineers/Space Jockey... but i agree we do also need Good Humanoid Characters i dont think it needs to be that ONLY a Xenomorph laid by the Queen matters or a Human that Pops out between a Womans Legs is what matters.
I makes no difference if there are Humans if the Story and how they are written sucks!
Nov-20-2018 2:16 PM
I think its a case of us looking at the Plot and Set-Up and sometimes Fans are not pleased with what is shown, but sometimes thats LIFE.... not every Alien Fan was Happy with Cameron's Queen and Bugs... but it had to be accepted as Canon. With doing a Prequel that covered the Xenomorph it could have either Gone Against the Queen/Bugs or Made it Concrete or even offered some Ambiguity towards it, so that the Queen/Bugs is just ONE Variation of the Organism.... we have yet to conclude the Prequels and its a Question of if they will give any clues to the Xenomorph Queen or not?
With the Prequels some fans were not Happy with the reveal of the Space Jockey, some thinking it should have been a Skeleton, some thinking it should have been a Mystery but ULTIMATELY it appears we are shown the Engineers as the Space Jockey, which some accept.. but maybe the SIZE is something that Bugs people!
You CANT please every Fan, and so showing us the Skeleton is maybe not a way forwards, and we have to ACCEPT it is a Space Suit... but the Occupant can be FIXED!
*A reveal of a Taller Race who may/may-not be related or look close to the Engineers or completely Alien but Humanoid/Bi-Pedal could be a Path to Try and give some Middle Ground but still connect to the Engineers (opening up another Plot.
Then we need to look at the David as Creator and some Fans are not pleased, some are really upset and i dont think many think this is GREAT! But again we cant just throw this Plot Out and Ignore it..... there is a FIX
*Having some other Race come across Davids Creation and then seeing the Potential to Harness and Evolve this to their Hubris which then reveals THEY Created the Xenomorph via Evolving Davids Creation, is maybe the way to GO.
Some fans may not be interested in the Philosophical Themes and Creation and Hubris Themes, but they have to accept that in PART this is not a part of the Prequels and a attempt to Expand the Franchise beyond Queens, Eggs, Face Huggers, Chest Bursting and Xenomorphs.
You face a tough call when trying to FIGURE what do they do, because THEY cant please everyone.. If they KILL off David like Dr Shaw, like Newt and Hicks, then whats next for the Prequels? HOW do we continue the Origins, and get to the Back Door of ALIEN?
Covenant Ship arrives at LV-426 and we arrive after David has been KILLED, or we see him Die Early on... Then Ship is Damaged or Forced to Set down on LV-426?
Does the Xenomorphs get Unleashed on the Covenant before the Ship arrives at LV-426?
Does the Ship suffer a Xenomorph Outbreak and a Escape Shuttle heads down to LV-426 but one of the Escapees is infected with a Queen Xenomorph?
How does the Derelict then come into play?
Does a Engineer Ship come after David but arrives after the events that lead to his Death and a Xenomorph Outbreak. And so do they discover the Covenant Ship (in Space or on the surface) or they discover the Escape Shuttle?
Do these Engineers get infected with a Queen Face Hugger and this Strands the Ship or it Crashes after trying to Escape?
Do the Engineers manage to discover Eggs on the Covenant or the Escape Shuttle and Attempt to take them to their Ship and become infected and then either get Stranded or Crash after trying to Escape?
WHAT other Plot could they come up with if we are too see the Covenant head to LV-426, they Kill off David Early and Engineers are also incoming but eventually get infected by a Queen Embryo or they are infected by a Normal Xenomorph but they managed to LOAD the ship up with Eggs but then WHERE/HOW did these Eggs come from?
All we would be getting is a bit of Aliens, mixed with Alien 3, a bit of Alien Resurrection mixed with AVP (replace Predators with Engineers)
Would this even please everyone? what about those WHO want the Xenomorph to be Ancient?
Covenant Crew Survive David (he is killed early) and Xenomorph Outbreak and Survivors end up going down to LV-426 and discover the Derelict and then we see more Xenomorphs unleashed only these are Engineers ones?
This really shows the LIMITATIONS to a Plot that goes to LV-426... Especially if we....
*Give David little time or none and kill him off, and pay little attention to what David does next, what becomes of his Face Hugger Embryos etc.
*Having incoming Engineers and Weyland Yutani Rock up on a Baron (or maybe) Moon where the Covenant Survivors have JUST survived Davids Xenomorphs and NOW they have gone out the Frying Pan into the Fire?
*Show the Derelict as already being there for Thousands of Years..... Worse... this is where some Engineers are awoken!
Maybe a Plot that would please the Popcorn Fanboys but would it really do any justice?
It would be just a Spoon Fed bit of a Coincidence!
Going to Origae-6 First maybe gives more options, but if we follow Plots like above but go to Origae-6 then we have to END up on LV-426 and so how does that happen?
Survivors Escape in a W-Y Ship and by chance happen to end up on LV-426 and discover the Derelict already there.... Que a repeat Running and Shooting Aliens again!
Survivors are Captured by Engineers and taken to LV-426... but WHY? and then reveal these Engineers take them down to where they have the Crashed Derelict as those Xenomorphs need HOSTS?
As it would make No Sense to take them to be turned into Eggs... unless the Derelict/or Eggs are NOT there at the time of this Prequel... but this would mean the Eggs are not there for Thousands of Years and THEN it means David is still the Creator.
I can come up with 3 different Plots/Movies and ONE does-revolve around David more... but all 3 will be similar as far as leading to Ending up on LV-426.... but they differ in HOW and WHAT happens...
I can Indulge you all if you like ;)
Nov-20-2018 8:30 PM
The next movie is a part of a prequel- that much seems to be known.Therefore, it seems reasonable to rule out the combat Marines angle. That leaves us with the SJ, Xeno and android/Weyland story. The SJ could remain a mystery imo. It would seem the next installment to tie things up before Alien would be a Weyland/Yutani story explaining how and why Ash got put on the Nostromo. There would be little or no need to even see a Xeno.
Nov-21-2018 12:14 PM
I think the Set-up for the Sequel which my Thread Alien:Exodus covers. Is something that maybe a lot of Fans are not interested... such as what World David would Build if its NOT about Xenomorphs and its about AI.
And so i think maybe for the same Reasons Fans seemed to not be interested in Where David and Dr Shaw go, and what they Get Up To and all those Philosophical Themes meeting our Makers etc etc.... But NOT giving us Xenomorphs or their Origins...
I feel what caused FOX to abandon this and arrive at some kind of AFTER-MATH to what may have transpired during David and Dr Shaws time together, and when they arrived to Paradise.... Were the Sequel showed us 10 years after all that had HAPPENED..
I do feel that maybe doing the same with Alien Covenant could be the way to go that makes the most $$$ and Interest as at the END of the day the Fanboys are who will get more Bums on Seats.... despite the interesting ideas that a Prometheus 2 and Alien Covenant 2 could have been.
So we arrive at a Time say of 2-5 years after David has been on Origae-6 (2115-2117) and in effect By-Pass Alien Covenant 2 apart from the Final Act.
This gives Disney Less Time to get to ALIEN, where we by-pass the Set-Up to the Final Chapter and allow for a Movie about the Aftermath of when Davids Eden goes to Hell, and we get our Humans vs Engineers, vs Xenomorph Movie that then ENDS with a Engineer Taking Davids Creation to LV-223.
For how interesting Ridley Scotts ideas may have been, they do seem to Steer Too Much away from ALIEN and while this was his intention... NO SOONER as they changed it to begin to answer the Xenomorph Origin and Eventually lead to ALIEN and become a ALIEN: Prefix Prequel.... they have basically Written Themselves into a Corner where most people would only EXPECT how this gets to ALIEN
This may be the best route to take....
After and if this works out well.... then its open via a TV Series or a Novel to explore what happened on Paradise after David arrived until the Covenant arrived, and what happened on Origae-6 after David arrived and until the incoming Parties arrive.
This could be done by those at W-Y having gained Davids Head or his AI Memories and Probe what had happened... this could LEAD to a Hubris where Davids AI then Gains some Control of the Company and Sets up the Special Order 937.
This is more suited to a TV Series.... where as the Movies as far as the Problem we are at now, are best to Serve the Fanboys and offer them what HELL happens when the Incoming Parties arrive at Davids Paradise.
This gives Disney ONE movie Gamble that should either Directly Tie to ALIEN or set up a Cliff Hanger that leaves LITTLE Ambiguity to whats NEXT!
Rather than Gamble on a LESS-ALIEN movie, that does-not lead to ALIEN, because if this Movie does not provide enough for the Alien Fanboys well those who want to get to see Xenomorphs and Engineers vs Humans and get us to WHAT happened to the Derelict.
If the Sequel to AC does not provide this but Sets it up for the Final Part..... but the Sequel BOMBS!
Then would Disney Fund another?
By-passing this onto the Final Chapter would at least Answer that Question leading to ALIEN and even if it Bombs! at least the Prequels are FINISHED.
If it does-well and gets people asking what happened before those parties arrive, what was Davids World Like before it Fell apart.... or want to know more about Engineers, then this is where Disney could do a TV Mini-series that explores theses and can give us deeper insight to those Themes and Ideas that RS wishes to explore that are maybe too Deep/Broad to be done in a Movie, especially Movies that FANS expect will lead us to ALIEN