Alien: Covenant
CREATOR: Implications from 2023

CREATOR: Implications from 2023

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BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPFeb-19-2022 2:16 AM

With the TV Show coming in 2023 and being SET Prior to the EVENTS of ALIEN COVENANT.... what are the Implications for the David the Creator Arc?

Could it offer something that Does-Not go and Discredit David too much?

Was the David the Creator a Good Arc?

Should we have got something in a Sequel to Alien Covenant or another Alien Movie set after the Prequels that could GIVE some Light to the Xenomorph in relation to David's Creation that is Handled in a way to BOTH make him have a ROLE but to NOT be the ULTIMATE Creator?

What would you LIKE to see as the Eventual Creation/Origin of the Xenomorph?

Finally do you Expect the TV Series and revealing the Xenomorph some 22+ Years prior to ALIEN to Damage the Origins or Uplift them?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

15 Responses to CREATOR: Implications from 2023

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1641 XPFeb-19-2022 9:37 AM

David as the creator really annoys me. I sort of understand the idea about mankind doing something that could bring it down, but it makes the monster indirectly a result of human activity, it takes away the alien-ness of it. The more that this series can point the finger at that, the better, sort of F you. As far as discredit it, the more they do that, the better. David as the creator of the monster should be undone, and if that is being done in a blunt way, then alright.

If we get another alien-movie it could be a problem with the Alien-connection if it has David in a too much of a role, especially for those that don't like it being taken over by androids. I'm one of those people that don't like the big role being given to androids at the expense of the human journey.

“What would you LIKE to see as the Eventual Creation/Origin of the Xenomorph?"

Being done by the Engineers, or something that the Engineers found and developed. Something that we (mankind) has a difficult way of understanding, or maybe don't really understand at all. This could bring back the unknown factor into it, which is really needed with the fiasco of the David-obsessive part of the prequels this far.

“Finally do you Expect the TV Series and revealing the Xenomorph some 22+ Years prior to ALIEN to Damage the Origins or Uplift them?"

It depends on how it's done, I would like to be shown that its roots go back waay back before David, so it can get ancient and a mystery again. Whatever they do, I guess that it’ll be better than in the prequels anyways.

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember3868 XPFeb-19-2022 11:16 AM

Thoughts_Dreams

What's wrong with android protagonists or any non-human protagonist?

I think an android protagonist would be awesome if it was a coming of age story, just without the android going insane and making biomechanical horrors. So basically a good David, doesn't have to be a David model specifically. But I am one of the type of people who would have preferred a Yautja protagonist over a human one for an Alien vs Predator movie.

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BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPFeb-20-2022 1:41 AM

Regarding the ARC.... I think it makes Sense when looking at the Themes of the Prequels.....  HOWEVER.... they could have had David go and Create something ELSE that looks Different but YET similar and Proclaim he has PERFECTED the Engineers Creation etc.

For Example any of the ABOVE would have been more a Connection to the Xenomorph and via seeing HOW he Created them, then it could give us some IDEA of HOW the Xenomorph came about but also leave it UNEXPLORED so it has that Mystery about it still.

Such a Alternative Creation would TELL the David Story Arc, but it would NOT go and Effect the Xenomorph and any Conflicts about HOW OLD it seemed the Derelict was etc.

It seems that up UNTIL the Spring-Summer of 2015 that THIS is Exactly what they was going for... but then they Decided we NEED to SHOW the Original Xenomorph and its Origins and so they DID THIS... but added that David is the Creator!

THIS.... could have been FIXED via a Movie or a Novel or a Comic that would NOT even have to have David in it at all......

You have the Engineers Return and Discover Davids Workshop, and Xenomorph and they SEE the Potential and then you SHOW/INDICATE that they then take it to LV-223 to EVOLVE it to WHAT we have in ALIEN.

Then ANY kind of Movie/Novel or Comic that would FOLLOW where David is going would then NOT have to be about the Xenomorph or SHOE-HORN the Plot into ALIEN.

What we have then is this...

*Without the Engineers Pathogen and Knowledge David gained from what they was doing on LV-223, then David would NOT have the Material to Create his PROTOMORPH

*The Engineers then UPGRADE/EVOLVE his Protomorph to become the XENOMORPH.

So David in Effect becomes the MIDDLE-MAN this is a Compromise.  We STILL would have the TIME-FRAME Problem..... which is that there are NO EGGS on the Derelict by the Year 2105..... but there is a Solution to that ;) which also TAKES OUT the Engineers LV-223 Moon at the same Time.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPFeb-20-2022 1:44 AM

Regarding the TV Show...

I think this will just go and DESTROY the Plot of David in the Prequels i think it would CAUSE so Many Conflicts.... i think that UNLESS the TV Show is a Alternative Take then it could have a Profound Effect on the Franchise.  And i WORRY this will be in a NEGATIVE way.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember3868 XPFeb-20-2022 12:05 PM

I don't really mind David being the creator, although I more for the engineers being the sole creator

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Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1641 XPFeb-23-2022 12:09 PM

Xenotaris: It's not automatically wrong, but I'm interested in the human journey and what situations like the one in Alien tells us about being human. Androids might be interesting to some, but that's not why I watch Alien-movies. Leave the androids to spin-offs in the Alien franchise, they could have bigger roles there but not in the official material.

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember3868 XPFeb-24-2022 5:13 AM

Humans are boring, every story like ever is about the human journey. I really like ALIEN and ALIENS, they are my favorite alien movies but I would like if an ALIEN movie or rather an AVP movie (the previous AVP movies were massive heaps of disappointment, although I liked aspects of Requiem) focus on a Yautja or Engineer protagonist instead of a human one.

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BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPFeb-27-2022 9:39 AM

I think that Humans are Interesting as they are Characters we can CONNECT with more than say ALIEN Races or A.I/Robots.....

I dont think you have to have Xenomorphs to have a ALIEN MOVIE!

But you have to have something that has a Thread of Connection, with Prometheus this CONNECTION was the Engineers via them being the Space Jockey and thus Implied had a HAND in the Creation or USE of the Xenomorph.

I think the Problem with having the Xenomorph Origins indicated as via David is that it makes its ORIGIN much less ALIEN... but also the Time-Frame would mean the Eggs on LV-426 are NOT there some 17 Years before ALIEN.

As i had said there could be a Few Ways to FIX things... but its UNLIKELY we shall see that.

I think you have to have Human Characters to make a Movie Work, but you only NEED a Few if you have other Humanoid Characters...... i have said before the IDEA i had for a Prometheus 3 (prior to Alien Covenant) would have seen David and Dr Shaw arrive at a World that has a Handful of Engineers or so... like 6 with HUMANS (did we Originate on Earth? is the Earth the ONLY place to have Humans?).  But also some other Races too.

I think you have to have the Balance of Humans and Xenomorphs, but with A.I  i do think the Prequels had GIVEN too MUCH of a Emphasis on David.

Regarding the OT... i think that IF the TV Series is to be CANON to the MOVIES then it would in EFFECT mean that David could NOT have Created the Xenomorph but i also think the TV Series could CAUSE a WHOLE LOT of other Conflicts too.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember3868 XPFeb-27-2022 11:29 AM

I mean sure we can related to humans because we are humans but I don't find that interesting because I am a human, I know how we are and what we will do. But there are times were we can't relate to humans either because they have different morals to us.

I think it would be INTERESTING exploring a different sapient lifeform's culture. I basically want a xenofiction

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BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPFeb-28-2022 6:37 AM

I Understand what your saying ;)

What i was referring to is in CONTEXT to a ALIEN Movie/TV Show then WHILE you dont have to have LOADS of Human Characters you would Typically have to have SOME to PLAY as Main Characters, such as STAR WARS if we replaced ALL the Humans with other Races who look NOT-SO Human would MOST People be able to Connect with them?

In Context to the ALIEN Franchise.... then INDEED we could have seen a "different sapient lifeform's culture" do we ASSUME that the Earth is the ONLY place the Engineers had Seeded Life etc?

Do we Assume that as of say Present Day within the Franchise (2022) and thus 100 Years before ALIEN.... that the Earth is the ONLY place were their are HUMANS?

I think you have to LOOK at the BIGGER Picture and place yourself in the Engineers Shoes..... And EVEN IF the Engineers had ONLY seeded Humans on Earth, it seems a LOT of Effort and Time... would they just WRITE US OFF when its Knowledge/Upbringing and Free-Will that Corrupts us?

You would ASK... WHY did the Engineers not just Return to Earth even to some more Secluded Culture of Humans and take some AWAY or even just the CHILDREN (so you take say 10 Boys and 10 Girls) IF these are YOUNG (under 5 Years) the Engineers could TAKE them to another World.... Teach them the WAY the Engineers want them to Behave etc... Learn from Mistakes on Earth by having a Group of Engineers to STAY and WATCH/RULE over these Children and then you can have Humanity begin again... but with more Control.

IF such a thing had been DONE then you have another World with Humans.... what IF this World also has OTHER RACES the Engineers have Created lets say another 3/4 and they ALL are Found on a Planet where they are Living together but are WATCHED/RULED over by a Smaller Number of Engineers?

You have Humans but then other "different sapient lifeform's" and well THIS was the IDEA as to where i would have taken David and Dr Shaw.... a World some 16'000 Light Years away and not 40-50LY or so (Planet 4)

Ridley Scott had mentioned a FEW times that he Felt the ALIEN Franchise had the Potential to be like STAR WARS and STAR TREK... seemed Bonkers for him to Suggest... but i do-not think he meant as BIG as in SUCCESS.... but in Terms of World Building/Exploration, Different Races and Conflicts.

"I basically want a xenofiction"

In context to my Paragraph Prior.... i think RS was looking to EXPAND to Beyond the Xenomorph, the Xenomorph as of 2013 was merely either (A) a Engineered Killing Machine by the Engineers, or (B) a Contamination/Evolution of something that had came into Contact with the Black Goo Bio-Weapon.

And so IF the Xenomorph is merely as such... its ONCE you Explain/Show this its then WHATS NEXT?  So they FELT maybe you DONT even have to Explain the Origins and to STEER AWAY from ALIEN... but this means its NOT quite ALIEN... but then with Prometheus it was SET-UP to Offer a A SPIN-OFF thats SET in the same Universe/Canon... just they would look at WHAT ELSE the Engineers/Space Jockey have been UP TO....

But the POWERS that BE had determined the FANS wanted to see something more ALIEN and to INTRODUCE the Xenomorph and its Origins.... which is WHEN we had July 2015 the Change in this Direction.... just with a CURVE-BALL.... that David Created them.....

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPFeb-28-2022 7:02 AM

In Context to WHERE we go Next......

We have seen the Company Angle Explored....we have seen Xenomorphs Galore....we have had our Fill of Ripley.

The A.I Threat is to me Part of History for Humanity, i think it could be Interesting but then IF its Centered around A.I too much, maybe Fans wont see that as being Worthy of being in the ALIEN Franchise?

For me i FELT that Exploring the Engineers and other Worlds they had Interacted and Seeded would have been the WAY to GO... but its IF any Fans would Accept this as a ALIEN Franchise as well NO XENO... then NO ALIEN to some.

But what we are getting is a TV Show.... that WILL go and give us the Xenomorph at some POINT.... and in Context to the OT if this is to be CANON then SET like 25 Years (ish) before ALIEN this will TOTALLY go and Discredit Alien Covenant/David.

The BIG QUESTIONS are.... if we are SET some 25 Years prior to ALIEN then WHEN/WHERE and HOW do we get our Xenomorph?

*Do Humans go and Discover it on LV-223 or LV-426 and bring it back to Earth?

When looking  at the PLOT about Enhanced Meta-Humans and Technological Advancements then SURELY LV-223 has more Rewards in Everything else BUT the Xenomorph.  To go to LV-223/LV-426 and ONLY go to bring Xeno-Eggs back seems Silly, as far as WHY and WHAT do they Intend to gain when LV-223 has more to OFFER.

*Do Humans go Discover the Xenomorph on Earth? and then its a Case of HOW did the Eggs get to Earth in the Ancient Past?

That then raises the Question of WHY do they NEED to bother with LV-426, unless the Discovered Xenomorphs on Earth are ALL DESTROYED and some Humans then Discover there is ANOTHER SHIP on LV-426!

I think the TV Show (if its NOT a Alternative Canon) is asking for TROUBLE.

Will the TV Show go and Explore the Engineers/Space Jockey? or maybe make it that there is ANOTHER RACE who is the Space Jockey?

Again i think this would Conflict the Prequels and Cause Trouble if we have Engineers/Space Jockeys involved before the TIME of ALIEN.

The Engineers/Space Jockey must be SURELY LONG GONE... as FAR as within the LOCAL AREA of Space even by 2180 and so this does-not mean they cant be some LEFT but in FAR FAR reaches of the Galaxy beyond where Humans have Explored even in 2180.

GOD HELP US... if they Discover a Engineer/Space Jockey Ship on Earth and we have at some point some Engineers/Space Jockey awakened or ALERTED (so they come to Earth from FAR AWAY)....

THIS say between 2200-2300.... Yeah OK.... BUT prior to ALIEN... NO NO NO! LOL

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember3868 XPFeb-28-2022 10:48 AM

I would rather that HUMANS only homeworld should be Earth, the idea of HUMANS transplanted across the galaxy reminds me too much of STARGATE.

Me personally, I just want a species of sapient aliens that look closer to a yautja than a human. I am just tired of human aliens. I want Birdman aliens, I want batman aliens, I want sapient space whales, I want sapient colonies of worms, I want lizardmen, etc.. Basically I want more Mass Effect aliens and less Star Trek TOS/Comic Book/Generic Sci-fi TV show aliens.

Now I don't mind rubber foreheaded aliens or humanoid aliens, but carbon copy human aliens I just loathe because the only thing that makes them alien is because they have some freaky powers (either physical or mental) or their organs are arranged differently. 

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BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMar-01-2022 12:51 AM

I get what your saying and it does seem a BIT of a Cliche that WHEN we have ALIEN RACES in Sci-Fi they can appear to be TOO HUMAN and we also can Speak English to them etc lol

I think when looking at a Franchise and Explore the Universe it can be Different from Franchise to Franchise, we have some Movies where our ALIENS are TOTALLY different..... WAR OF THE WORLDS for a Example... I think the PROBLEM when you Explore Races that are FAR from HUMAN and have NO MEANS to Communicate with us..... your going to NEED some Humans who are Under Threat as our Proxy... a Movie with NO HUMAN or HUMAN looking Races that ONLY has like Very ALIEN looking ones i just CANT see working.

Independence Day Aliens VS War of the Worlds for a Example... Especially if there are NO HUMANS in it.

I think that YES there is in Reality the Potential for other Intelligent LIFE in the Universe but i think its Crazy to ASSUME they would be anywhere NEAR like Human or Humanoid....  The ALIEN Franchise can GET AWAY with this via the Engineers Plot as a Ancient Humanoid Race.... that SURELY have Seeded Many Worlds and so the Potential is there for other Worlds to be kind of Human, but have some Differences.

I think another MAJOR Problem with NONE-HUMANOID looking ALIENS who we cant Communicate with would be that IF they are WAY WAY more Advanced then this does-not SPELL too well for Mankind.....

The Xenomorphs are NOT too Human looking, but with them they are NOT a Massive Threat unless you OBTAIN a Xenomorph or some other way they END UP on a Ship etc..... I dont think it would be WISE to have the Xenomorphs being able to Create Ships and Traverse the Cosmos we would get like a STARSHIP TROOPERS with Xenomorphs.... it would be a BIT LIKE the Warhammer 40K Tyranids.

I think in Context to the Franchise... its a Question of do you NOT go and introduce too many Alien Species, do you LIMIT it to what we already have?

Looking at the Movies we have indications that as well as Humans, and Robots we have Human looking Synthetics.... but as FAR as ALIENS we have Xenomorphs, the Space Jockey and.... Arcturians (we have not seen what they look like).  The Space Jockey looked a bit ALIEN if we assumed it was a Skeleton but what we have is the Human looking Engineers.

But i think i know what you MEAN... in that we should have Humanoid Aliens who are NOT too Human and the Yautja are Humanoids who are NOT that Human looking, and so YES i think you could have Various Races who look LESS HUMAN than we do.  Like you have the Prawns from District 9.

But who is to say ALIEN Species would FIT that Humanoid 2 Arms, Torso, 2 Legs and a Head Anatomy?

" they have some freaky powers (either physical or mental)"

Yeah like they Belong to some MARVEL Super Hero Flick ;) lets HOPE the TV Series does-not do this with the Meta-Humans!

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1641 XPMar-01-2022 2:56 AM

“Humans are boring, every story like ever is about the human journey. I really like ALIEN and ALIENS, they are my favorite alien movies, but I would like if an ALIEN movie or rather an AVP movie (the previous AVP movies were massive heaps of disappointment, although I liked aspects of Requiem) focus on a Yautja or Engineer protagonist instead of a human one.”


I disagree, for example: why is it that we make the same mistakes again and again when we should have learned by now? This is one of the things that seems to be brought up in the franchise, I find that to be interesting. You could say it's because humans are flawed, too much corporate power, or what ever. It makes for some exciting discussion, but then you got to have it about the human condition, otherwise it might be difficult for some to relate. 


Alien 3 is my favorite, I like how it's bleak in its tone, although I like Alien and Aliens too. AVP was alright as entertainment, although AVPR is massive crap. I’ve watched AVPR twice, but I doubt that I'll do so again. 


“I think that Humans are Interesting as they are Characters we can CONNECT with more than say ALIEN Races or A.I/Robots..…"


 This sums up my attitude towards it 

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember3868 XPMar-04-2022 10:12 AM

"I disagree, for example: why is it that we make the same mistakes again and again when we should have learned by now? This is one of the things that seems to be brought up in the franchise, I find that to be interesting. You could say it's because humans are flawed, too much corporate power, or what ever. It makes for some exciting discussion, but then you got to have it about the human condition, otherwise it might be difficult for some to relate. "

I hate the human condition, its so human-centric. Animals make mistakes too, all life makes mistakes, humans are just so blindly arrogant that they think they are special but really we are not. The only thing humans did differently than our fellow animals is achieve space travel. Lifeforms can talk, lifeforms wage war, lifeforms can build structures. 

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