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I WANT TO GO WHERE THEY CAME FROM!

I WANT TO GO WHERE THEY CAME FROM!

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BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPAug-25-2021 10:06 AM

Thought i would Make a Topic about the Direction that both Ridley Scott and James Cameron wanted to TAKE their Sequel to their First ALIEN Movie.

Both seemed to be Interested in as Dr Shaw said "I want to go where they came from!" but both seemed to be Different to HOW/WHERE this would be.

Ridley Scott seemed to Indicate the WHERE would be to go to the Home-World of the Space Jockey Race.  Where maybe the Xenomorph Connection would be Answered as RS had Envisioned it as a Engineered Bio-Weapon that the Space Jockey had Created.

James Cameron had seemed to Indicate that he would have taken us to the Home-World of the Xenomorph.  And so it would seem that he Envisioned the Xenomorph was a Organism that the Space Jockey had Encountered and had NOT gone to Create/Engineer.

It appeared they may have been OPEN to Working Together on the Project but then FOX had Decided to go for the AVP Movies and well.... that KILLED OFF any Return to the ALIEN Franchise...

Until Work began on the Prequels in 2009.

IF we had gone BACK to prior to AVP or even After... and then FOX had Decided to go and Explore one of those Directors Ideas and give them the Directors Chair. 

Then WHICH would you had Preferred?   Or do you think a Collaboration or a Combining of Ideas would have been BETTER?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

18 Responses to I WANT TO GO WHERE THEY CAME FROM!

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1296 XPAug-25-2021 5:16 PM

I love RS...But I'm going with Cameron with this one.

Leave the derelict and SJ alone. ( Just another race of space flyers that encountered the Xeno )

Planet xeno sounds like Star Ship Troopers...so I'd take the plot somewhere else...

 

Collaboration? I doubt that would have worked. Cool to discuss though!

 

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember2776 XPAug-25-2021 9:39 PM

I would love to see either the xenomorph homeworld or the engineer's homeworld.

I guess i'm the only one here that doesn't mind a more starship trooper approach to the series

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BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPAug-26-2021 5:24 AM

"Leave the derelict and SJ alone."

I think IF we saw Ridley Scott have made the Sequel to ALIEN, or even the Idea he had after.  He seemed to be Interested in Explore as to WHO the Space Jockey was, and while it may have Indicated to HOW/WHEN/WHY the Derelict had the Cargo of Eggs, it seemed that RS would have wanted us to go to the Home-World of the Space Jockey which at the Time may have been Envisioned as a World that would have had more of that HR Giger Aesthetic... Hence the Image i Posted.

And so Ridley Scott would have Explored our Space Jockey Race more.

With James Cameron it seemed we would have been taken to a World that would have been TURNED into Hive and have Millions of Eggs..... And so his Idea could have Turned into "Just another Big Hunt" and so YES could have been more a Star Ship Troopers.....

The Question is would you UPLIFT/EVOLVE the Xenomorph or would they be Merely Bi-Pedal Humanoid in Shape... Space Termites/Ants?  And i you show they can Create Technology and so we see Bio-Mechanical Space Ships that are Piloted by Xenomorphs etc..... then again this could also be a Little on the Starship Trooper side.

Then its IF he would have shown us WHAT the Derelict is and WHAT the Space Jockey was doing with the Eggs?  It seems Cameron sees the Eggs as Pre-existing before the Space Jockey ever came into Contact with them, and so the Space Jockey had the same Intentions as the Weyland-Corp....  well for a Advanced/Ancient Race it makes Little Sense to see the Xenomorph Eggs as Purely a Weapon.

The Derelict and Xenomorph have some Shared Aesthetic and so you would have to ASSUME...

1) The Space Jockey Race had Created the Derelict and Xenomorph.

2) The Xenomorph had Created the Derelict and the Space Jockey are a Enslaved Species or a Creation of the Xenomorphs.

I think that RS idea would have gone for (1) and JC maybe it would have touched on (2) but i think he would Overlook the Aesthetic Similarities and just had the Space Jockey as a Race who had come down to TAKE the Eggs.

"Collaboration? I doubt that would have worked"

Well it did seem that RS and JC was considering it before FOX had gone for making AVP Instead... i think if you Combine both ideas.... then you have BOTH of the Worlds to Explore...

The Space Jockey being a Race who Encountered the Xenomorph (or its Ancestor) and then USED it to Re-Engineer Technology and Genetics from...

"I guess i'm the only one here that doesn't mind a more starship trooper approach to the series"

I think its Very Much like what we see in the Comics which Works... if you do this on the Big Screen then you could END UP with Similar to Starship Troopers, and its NOT that this would NOT work... its can you have like 2-3 Movies that are Similar....

Like say a Aliens 2, Aliens 3 and Aliens 4....... i think that can get Repetitive but thats just my Personal Opinion.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1296 XPAug-26-2021 9:14 AM

"Eggs as Pre-existing "

Yeah, I'd go with this. Queens producing eggs make more sense then David / Engineers manufacturing them. 

Maybe on Planet Xeno, xenomorphs are a good thing, used like Wolves to thin the heard ( a really nasty planet ), but some how an egg or two got offworld?

The race who cultivates the xeno might be oblivious to the fact that their creation is out there.....No different than if an ancient species visited Earth 70 million years ago and grabbed some T-Rex eggs, Earthlings would be like?!

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1296 XPAug-26-2021 9:21 AM

"UPLIFT/EVOLVE the Xenomorph"

I'd keep them intelligent but anti-technology, almost a cult like hatred of mechanical things. 

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPAug-26-2021 10:31 AM

I think the Xenomorph is a Flawed Species... as a Organism, it depends on HOW LONG do they Live for?   The Xenomorph requires a HOST and this becomes its FLAW.

When a World has NO MORE HOSTS.... and IF the Xenomorph do-not have Space Ships and the like, then ONCE they DIE then thats IT.... all that Remains would be the Eggs.  

But this makes more Sense if its a Engineered Bio-Weapon/Killing Machine.

With Camerons Hive Xenomorphs they are more like Intelligent Hive Insects like Ants, Bees or Termites... but with the FLAW of Needing a HOST....

But as i say, you have to look into them and Uplift/Evolve them a BIT MORE.

Are they Intelligent Enough to Capture and Breed Hosts?  Do they have Hosts on their Planet they Leave to Procreate and so are Careful to NOT let their Hosts Numbers Dwindle?  For Example if Vampires were Real and they NEED HUMAN BLOOD from the Living to Survive then IF they Turned the Population to Vampires with NO more Humans to FEED from then the Vampires could be DOOMED.

The Xenomorph Idea came from O'Bannons Starbeast and this Species were Civilized they BUILT the Temples/Pyramids, and its LIKELY they could Traverse the Stars? Or if NOT they Certainly are more Civilized/Intelligent than Camerons Xenomorph.

The Starbeast either had Abandoned their Ritual Birthing Temples, or they came from another Planet and used LV-426 as Birthing Place and they Never Returned or they Simply Lived on this World and RAN OUT of Hosts.

so IF we saw Cameron go with the Xenomorph being a Pre-Existing Organism and he would TAKE US to their Home-world then he would have to Consider some of the THINGS i Mention above...

Or have it the Xenomorphs are IMMORTAL. (this does-not mean they cant be Killed).

so this is WHAT i mean about you have to UPLIFT/EVOLVE them as in Beyond just Procreative Survivalist like Ants/Termites with a Curse of Needing Hosts.

None of this is Necessary if you have it they are a Engineered Creation... but this does-not mean you have to have them as a Creation of the Engineers (or David).  I feel that SHIP has SAILED.... due to Alien Covenant (unless we dont count this as Canon).

You could have a Starbeast Organism who are Civilized to a Degree, who Create the Xenomorphs for a Purpose and Enslave the Space Jockey to Carry them to World to World..... but again with the Prequels i think this IN PART is a SHIP thats SAILED.

But you could have a Starbeast who either Enslaved the Engineers Ancestors but they Rebelled and Overthrown their Masters, and then Re-Engineered their Tech and Genetics..... which leads also to LV-223David would then have Perfected the Engineers work to get something more Closer to what the Starbeasts were.

Or you have it the Engineers had Encountered the Starbeast or a Race that Predates the Xenomorph and the Engineers had began to Experiment with the Genetics of this Organism for some Reason.... again  David would Further Engineer the Work to Create the Xenomorph which is more Closer to their Ancestor/Starbeast.

But all of THIS is NOT quite on Topic...

The Topic is to see what Route to had Taken prior to the Prequels and so in this Context its DAVID WHO?

And so by that IF they Never Made AVP and Decided to go back to ALIEN then FOX maybe would have Consulted either RS or JC to see where they would GO NEXT.

When it came to 2008/2009 then FOX had decided to go back to ALIEN but it seems this IDEA was a going back to the Derelict (or another World) (not sure after ALIENS or prior to ALIEN) but Spaights said the idea they had was VERY MUCH like a ALIENS 2

And so he then Pitched his ENGINEERS Plot which is something that RS was interested in 10 Years Prior (to Explore/Emphasis on the Space Jockey Race).

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1296 XPAug-26-2021 4:32 PM

Were the eggs the cargo? Or were the eggs produced by the queen that burst from the SJ? 

This is really the RS or Cameron / Fox plot genesis question.

Some some clarification, canon wise, would be nice.

 

"Ridley Scott in 2012 had said that the Space Jockey was a Engineer, he had became Infected with his CARGO,"

 

Is this considered canon or RS just setting up Prometheus?

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember2776 XPAug-26-2021 7:01 PM

Big Dave I think I have been unconsciously borrowing some of your ideas in regards to the starbeast for my fanfiction because that is how I was going portray them.

Well I was thinking the xenomorphs develop or breed with a space whale-type creature to get their ship and become more less like the zergs

ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR UNIVERSE

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPAug-27-2021 7:41 AM

"Is this considered canon or RS just setting up Prometheus?"

Well its a Process of Evolution of the Story.... we can maybe Forget what Starbeast had Shown as this Story the Pyramid (where Eggs were) and Ship were Separate and so it kinda does-not Apply to ALIEN. (But then some People do-not accept that the Cargo Hold is Part of the Ship).

So its Down to WHO'S STORY do you go for?

1) O'Bannon:  The Eggs/Spores are Held within a Pyramid/Temple and the Space Jockey was a ALIEN Species who just Happened to go to Explore the Pyramid and take back Eggs/Spores to their Ship.

The Pilot/Space Jockey and Ship looked Different and Never had a Similar Aesthetic to the Adult Stage of the Organism in those Eggs/Spores.

2) Ridley Scott: He had Indicated the Eggs were Biological Warfare which he then had said the Space Jockey had Created/Engineered.

He Evolved this to suggest the Eggs were something that Evolved in the Cargo Hold after the Outbreak on LV-223.

3) HR Giger:  He had Suggested that the Ships are Grown and that the Ships actually Produce the Eggs (The Egg Silo did this before being Merged as  the Derelict Cargo Hold).

But he Never Really touched on the Space Jockey Connection, just indicated it was a Space Suit, and the Occupants were Bald Humans who would Sacrifice themselves to Procreate the Xenomorph. However its NEVER indicated as to IF he Felt the Space Jockey are Servants to the Ships (or its Creators) or they (Space Jockey) Created the Ships.

4) James Cameron: He left it more Unknown as he Never went to Explain the Derelict/Space Jockey.  But he did seem to indicate he Felt the Pilot was a Slave to the Chair and is Merged Permanently to it.  But he seems to Indicate the Xenomorph as a Existing Species.

And so in this Case the Space Jockey Race just saw the Eggs/Xenomorph as Useful as a Biological Warfare.

5) Jon Spaights: He had indicated the Xenomorph Eggs are a Genetically Engineered Bio-Weapon, his Story seems to Imply they are Many Variants that were Engineered/Created from a Organism the Engineers had Encountered and USED their Creation Tool to make Weaponized Organisms.

Jon Spaights does-not cover much about the Xenomorph just that it is a Designed Killing Machine by the Engineers.

6) The U-Turn:  That is the Plot of Alien Covenant which indicates the Xenomorph Origins come from David, as he takes what the Black Goo had Created and using the Goo he Mixed DNA etc of Many Organisms to eventually Create the Protomorph (First Incarnation of the Xenomorph).

But when we are TALKING about the OT.... then the Prequels do-not really come into Play.

And so to Answer that Question of "Ridley Scott in 2012 had said that the Space Jockey was a Engineer, he had became Infected with his CARGO,"

Then Ridley Scott had Felt the Space Jockey Race had Genetically Engineered the Xenomorph Eggs to then be USED for Biological Warfare.

What he Changed by the Time he Finished Prometheus was to Suggest that after the Outbreak on LV-223 then within Few Hundred Years that something had Evolved in the Cargo Hold and it had GOT TOO the Space Jockey/Engineer Pilot

So the Pilot had been Infected (Unintentionally) by his Cargo, which was EGGS but then after Prometheus we have RS being more Vague... just something Evolved in the Cargo Hold.... this could mean that something had

*Evolved to Change into Eggs (then a Face Huger infects SJ).

*Evolved to then Create/Lay Eggs (then a Face Huger infects SJ).

*Something Evolved and Infected the Space Jockey and then the Result had then Laid those Eggs.

Those could be Likely but then again RS was Vague... and Never indicated anything more than something in the Cargo Hold had Evolved and Infected the Pilot.

But again the TOPIC is mainly looking at say to Discus either.

A) If RS had got to make a Sequel to ALIEN he would taken us to the Home-World of the Space Jockey.  He even wanted to do this after ALIENS too.

B) If JC had got to make a Sequel to ALIENS he would have taken us to WHERE the Xenomorphs came from.

Before AVP then both had been thinking about WHERE would you go for another ALIEN Movie.... but then FOX had wanted to make AVP instead.

When 2009 came around then the Prequels that Developed seemed to look at something more AKIN to what RS had/would have done Before.... only that you would GO TO where the Xenomorph Came from...  (Research/Weapons Facility that was SET UP on LV-426 (changed to LV-223).  And then a Sequel would have likely GO TO where the Space Jockey/Engineers came from.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPAug-27-2021 8:06 AM

"Well I was thinking the xenomorphs develop or breed with a space whale-type creature to get their ship and become more less like the zergs"

Well at ONE POINT those working on the Prequels had indicated the Creators (of Space Jockey/Xenomorph)would be some Giant more WHALE like Organism and also a ALIEN looking Variant.

I had a Number of Years ago thought about Introducing something thats ABOVE the Engineers, something more ALIEN and HP Lovecraft.

And so there would be Bio-Mechanical (more Organic though) GIANT Space Craft that are like ALIEN Giant Turtles.  These would CREATE EGGS but they are NOT like in ALIEN but like the ALIEN POSTER.... and these Eggs would have Multiple Uses but would be like the Cosmic Egg and the SOURCE of ALL CREATION.

And so YES some SURREAL additions like you Suggest could be Interesting to Explore.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1296 XPAug-27-2021 9:59 AM

"A) If RS had got to make a Sequel to ALIEN he would taken us to the Home-World of the Space Jockey.  He even wanted to do this after ALIENS too.

B) If JC had got to make a Sequel to ALIENS he would have taken us to WHERE the Xenomorphs came from."

 

Well, then a collaboration would probably work...Home-world of both species are one and the same. Makes sense...Engineers evolved some bug they found on their world. Xeno's infested and the Engineers, busy engineering, lost track of their home-world. Humans are probably going to forget about Earth as we explore the galaxy....?

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember2776 XPAug-27-2021 12:50 PM

Huh, I have the Engineer/Space Jockey world and the xenomorph homeworld as two separate planets in AVPU

That Starshipomorph looks awesome BigDave, better then what i envisioned

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MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1296 XPAug-28-2021 5:22 AM

"...homeworld as two separate planets..."

 

Maybe xenomorphs, like dinosaurs, ruled the Engineers planet before the Engineers existence? Finding the long dead xeno's DNA, they brought them back( Jurassic Park style....Xenomorph land )

Perhaps Engineers and xenomorphs evolved from a common ancestor? ( like apes and humans )

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPAug-28-2021 7:11 AM

I think if i can WIPE my MEMORY from AFTER to 2005

And all things Considered Before then the Conclusion i Draw would Depend on if we Consider Drafts and Comments by Production Team/Directors.

When i saw the Space Jockey and Eggs over and over... the ONE thing that STICKS OUT is it seems there is a Connection between the Xenomorph Aesthetic and the Ship.  This actually is Because they are HR Giger Designs.

The Eggs/Face Huggers do-not have this Aesthetic they look ORGANIC.

The Space Jockey looks more like either a Space Suit or a Bio-Mechanical being like the Xenomorph.  It seems the PILOT CHAIR was Designed Specifically for the Space Jockey Suit/Being.

So the Origins/Creation of the SHIP and the SUIT/BEING and XENOMORPH must all have a Common Connection.  Therefor i was left to Conclude.

*The Space Jockey Race had Created this Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic and also Created the Xenomorph.

*The Space Jockey Race had Engineered its Technology from the Xenomorph.

*Something else had Created all the Technology, the Xenomorph and either Created the Space Jockey or Enslaved the beings in the Space Suit.

There is the OPTION that the Xenomorph is the Hierarchy here and Creators of it all.... but looking at them in the Franchise they do-not appear to be THIS to me.

So depending on WHICH of those would be WHAT is going on, would Determine as to WHAT the Home-World would be like. Well where you could have Gone if you was to Explore the Origins in Part and Connect to WHY the Space Jockey had the Eggs.

With Ridley Scott he had CLAIMED the Xenomorph was a Engineered Creation of the Space Jockey Race, and to me that MAKES the MOST SENSE...

But then you are LEFT with WHEN/HOW did they Create this Bio-Mechanical Technology and Organisms.

You could still PONDER is there a more ALIEN ORIGIN here?  Or do the Space Jockey just Possess a Technology/Material that is Beyond our Comprehension.

Regarding going to other WORLDS...

We see the Space Jockey (we can Safely Assume) can be Infected with the Egg Cargo and so it would be FOOLISH for them to Engineer/Create and Store them on their Home-World and so i would ASSUME they have another World/Moon/Outpost where the Xenomorph are Engineered/Created and Stored.

The Concept of a Xenomorph Home-world to me THUS comes down to a WORLD where they had GOT TOO and then GOT out of CONTROL....  LV-426 could maybe have become such a PLACE before Hadleys Hope.... but looking at ALIENS it would see that WORLD EXPANSION would come down to HOW MANY HOSTS they can Obtain.

The Xenomorph to me look like a Species that are Limited to Organic Life on a World it can USE and then Requiring someone to TAKE them to other Worlds.

Ridley Scott had informed us they was Biological Warfare and so at the TIME it was against WHO and WHY?

The Xenomorph always to me seemed to NOT be the Ideal Weapon....

The ONLY way it would be so would be IF the Organism has a Limited Life Span, and then if the Space Jockey Suits Protect you from the Eggs.....  But it seemed the Eggs are Sensitive to Vibration/Movement and so its ALWAYS a Question of HOW do you Transport the things!

Of Course there are Flaws/Goofs to this..... Kane had knocked Eggs when he FELL into the PIT OF EGGS..... but the ONLY one that OPENED was when he Approached it Close.    The ONLY thing that makes Sense to me is maybe they Detect CO2 or similar and this Activates them.... having a Space Suit you would have to Expel the CO2 we Exhale out of the Suit or you will Poison Yourself.

But this is going a BIT OFF TOPIC ;)

But Point i wanted to get to is that IF the Eggs are Grown like say a Plant, then maybe you have Small Eggs or a Seed, that you can Transport and Plant them in the Cargo Hold.... and they GROW into the Eggs.

The Problem with this is the Original Idea was a Egg Morph and so then your LEFT with Egg Morphs and HOW do you Transport them?

The Next Problem is ALIENS because we see a Queen can LAY EGGS and so this does give some Credence to THAT is HOW the Eggs came about which would then Indicate that the Space Jockey maybe Obtained them from another World..... but then you have to ASK as to HOW is it the Xenomorph and Space Jockey Ships have that same Aesthetic?

Its kinda the Chicken or the Egg Question.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPAug-28-2021 7:44 AM

"That Starshipomorph looks awesome BigDave"

Well the Image was a Idea they was going to USE in the Prequels......

The Idea i had came about in Part from HR Gigers Mural for ALIEN, his Comments about the Ship being Grown and Producing the Eggs... and then THIS from Prometheus.

We have a Number of Creation Myths regarding a Turtle....

The Turtles Shape is something you could Image as a Bio-Mechanical Ship..... and so the IDEA was maybe you have some HUGE BIO-MECHANICAL SHIP that is somewhat like a Turtle... but the Head is Different, maybe something more Closer to what is ABOVE the Doors in Prometheus.

This Enormous Bio-Mechanical Ship could Create say the Derelict Ships, and Store them....

Now Obviously the Turtle Inspired Ship would NOT look Exactly like that, it would be as IF you said to HR Giger right see this Turtle i want you Design me a MOTHER-SHIP thats like a Giant Turtle and Put your Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic to it with Creative Freedom to make it HOW you like.

The Derelict/Juggernaut in the Image is for Reference to the Min Size i would have these Bio-Mechanical Birthing Mother-ship.... maybe even have it 2-3X Larger.

So the SHELL if you would could have like a Turtle Shell meets Xenomorph Queen Head/Carapace look to it, with then some Aesthetic from the Derelict thrown in for Good Measure.

The Main Entrance being a Menacing Head/Face and the Mouth would OPEN UP to allow for Ships to come IN/OUT.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember2776 XPAug-28-2021 9:09 AM

In addition to formulating flying space faring xenoships, I was thinging of Space Jockey/Engineer military vessels as well. What would an Engineer Starcraft Carrier would look like?

ALIEN VERSUS PREDATOR UNIVERSE

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPAug-28-2021 9:55 AM

These are some Concepts for Prometheus..... well Earlier Drafts.. the Pebble Ship was going to be a Juggernaught but they did have some other Ideas and so i think the Engineers/Space Jockey would maybe have a Variety of Ships but they would all have that Similar Aesthetic... which we also see with the Docking Ship in Alien Covenant.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Hale2958

OvomorphMember11 XPAug-31-2021 12:12 AM

Thank you for posting that it could be just the thing to give inspiration to someone who needs it! Keep up the great work!

 

dgcustomerfirst

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