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DAVIDS QUEEN

DAVIDS QUEEN

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BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPMay-27-2021 8:29 AM

In Response to some Recent Discussion on what we could have been in STORE for in a Sequel to Alien Covenant.  Something that came up regarding Davids Message to the Company (The Advent). That he has just ONE thing left to PERFECT....

His QUEEN!

Now some may think this means David will go on to Create the Xenomorph Queen but i am NOT sure that Ridley Scott would be Spoon Feeding us to James Cameron's Creation.

He had mentioned in Regards to HOW to Continue that you have to Evolve the Beast and look at other ways of Procreation.

We know David had indicated he offered Dr Shaw a chance to Create a New Eden.  And he could have Evolved her.

We know David has ONLY the TWO Face Hugger Embryos.

Those working on Davids drawings had said that some of them that depicted Dr Shaw were like some kind of Twisted Dream/Fantasy.

Katherine Waterston said she heard about some Interesting things with her Character but she also could likely just END UP in a Body Bag.

So WHAT do you think about Davids intended Queen? do you have any IDEAS about HOW this could come about?

I think we have to BARE in MIND that Dr Shaw was essentially the Mother to those Eggs on Planet 4, its indicated that her Reproductive System allowed David to get his Desired Results...  So she was the First Queen in effect.

And so maybe David saw that there was Unfinished Potential in Perfecting as to HOW he could obtain Eggs.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

28 Responses to DAVIDS QUEEN

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1161 XPMay-27-2021 6:32 PM

Well it does make sense if David created ( hatched ) the Queen found in ALIENS.......This I think would be much more believable than David creating the Xeno.

A couple of movies setting up the Queen ( the one from ALIENS ) as david's masterpiece would have probably worked for me.

 

 

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPMay-27-2021 9:27 PM

I kind of Suspect that we would NOT be seeing the ALIENS QUEEN.

Looking at some of the Concept Work, it seemed to show some Dreams/Ambition of David to Create a Hybrid Human Birthing Machine, others indicate that the Eggs of a Female would be used to Create more Xenomorphs.  I would be interesting to see HOW those Face Huggers will be able to Procreate and i do Suspect we may have been Introduced to the EGG MORPH.

Looking at his Notes and comments by RS, we see that David has taken Great Care in Obtaining Various Traits from Various Organisms with the AID of the Black Goo and also the Neomorph Spores to Create a few Specimens, but it was with the AID of Dr Shaw (her Egg Cells) that he managed to get to those Eggs.

I suspect he would try to USE more Human Females in order to USE their Egg Cells to EVOLVE into Ovomorphs he may also try and Create a Hybrid that can maybe LAY EGGS well Give Birth to Eggs or maybe even Face Huggers?

Maybe we could get to the ALIENS QUEEN? who knows?  I just think that RS would TRY show something Different and more Disturbing.

Maybe his QUEEN could be a Female Synthetic Construct who may arrive in another Human Ship at some point?  His Xenomorph does lack the more Bio-Mechanical HR Giger Atheistic and RS said the Xenomorph has some EVOLVING to do before we get to ALIEN

IF some Androids who will appear are PART Organic/Synthetic then i do SUSPECT that they will become the FINAL PART of HOW we get to our Xenomorphs in ALIEN etc

This went UNUSED for the Fire and Stone Comics... but they could REUSE some Concepts that were dropped.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1161 XPMay-28-2021 10:12 AM

I like those ideas.....but, I'm wondering how they will link the prequels with the sequels? Seems further from the truth.  They already had to shoehorn the xeno into A:C just to make it a 'Alien' movie.

If they can directly tie A:C 2 to anyone of the sequels I'd be happy.

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPMay-30-2021 5:11 AM

"They already had to shoehorn the xeno into A:C just to make it a 'Alien' movie"

I think a LOT of this was because they EVENTUALLY thought that the FANS would want to KNOW about the Space Jockey Event....  But they also wanted to keep the David becomes a Creator Plot from Earlier Drafts and so it seemed LOGICAL to them to GIVE those Answers to LV-426 would mean we have to SET-UP how we get their and SHOW that WHERE those Eggs came from and then they THOUGHT about LETS MAKE THEM the Creation of David.

The Origin of the QUEEN from ALIENS is something that had always been UP for Debate, it seems that RS may have seen it as a Evolutionary Mutation of the Xenomorph.  It seemed that back between 2010-2011 the Idea that had was that the Engineers had been Experimenting with the Creation Tool, and some Organism to Create like 8 Variants of the Xenomorph, each being a BIT different and so each could have had a Different Procreation.

I do SUSPECT that IF we saw Ridley Scott go and Continue then he would have SHOWN us the EGG MORPH ;)

But when looking at the Prequels and Mutations/Monsters then it seems that a LOT of Success came from INFECTING a Human Egg Cell with the Xenovirus if you would... THIS is likely what CAUSED the Trilobite/Deacon.

Looking at Davids Notes it seems he Tried this with the Engineers but he FOUND that using a Human Reproductive System had given him his BEST Results.

And so i Expect that maybe Daniels would be a UNWILLING DONOR of Egg Cells to allow David to Create more Eggs.

I think the TALE at Play will FIT with the Themes of Playing GOD and especially when Creating something UNHOLY can lead to a Hubris, we also have the Search for Perfection.  And so i WOULD NOT have RULED OUT us seeing that David encounters a Advanced Synthetic Model who is more Organic than even Walter and David then Transfers his A.I Soul to this NEW BODY...

He then gets INFECTED with his OWN XENOMORPH and Gives BIRTH to the First BIO-MECHANICAL Queen.

When David is talking about PERFECTING HIS QUEEN i think he is Basically looking at the BEST and Most Efficient way that he can Create Multiple Eggs and so to Infect individual Female Human Egg Cells would be something he would see as a LONG PROCESS.

I suspect that we would have seen David go and Create a Hybrid Human/Xenomorph that would become his Queen maybe? I think he saw this as a Better Route to Reproducing such Horrors.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

FacehuggerMember436 XPMay-30-2021 9:01 PM

And so i Expect that maybe Daniels would be a UNWILLING DONOR of Egg Cells to allow David to Create more Eggs.

Dead right. I rather doubt David would even bother to wake Daniels up. As a source of human eggs, she’s pretty useful right where she is!

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1161 XPMay-31-2021 6:57 AM

David creating his own hybrid...is starting to sound like Alien: Resurrection ?

Daniels + Xeno = Queen + Ripley ( Xeno blood ) = Newborn + human = Super Soldier ?

Sounds convoluted.

But this makes me admire Alien: Resurrection all the more...What a bonkers plot!

Ripley 8 had some xeno attributes...Maybe this caused the newborn to be inbred (  sure looked like it! )

Maybe a normal human and a xeno would give it the reproductive organs?

 

So yeah I think this is what they are going for: David creates the Queen from Aliens.

How the Queen gets to LV-426 is something else.

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPMay-31-2021 8:30 AM

I think that YES we had seen the HYBRID Plot before with Ripley 8 she looked Human and only Benefited from Superior Speed and Strength as well as a Telepathic Link of sorts and ACID Blood.  The Queen looked like a Xeno-Queen its just that it gave BIRTH to the New Born which was a TRUE HYBRID as far as Aesthetically but i GUESS that the Xenomorph and Neomorph are also a HYBRID as they take some Traits from the HOST they Gestate inside.

Looking at some of the things in regards to Dr Shaw then David had said he wanted to EVOLVE her, and looking at a Number of his Drawings its seems he maybe ASPIRED to such.

And so i think we CANT rule out that we may see this HAPPEN to a Female had the Sequel got the GREEN LIGHT, we could see him using MERELY the Egg Cells too, its DIFFICULT to say.

I just DONT see that they would have David create a Royal Face Huger for instance and then we see a Queen Chest Burster that is SIMILAR to what we have in ALIENS, but as we have NOT and its UNLIKELY we shall see a Continuation then we really cant be 100% sure of WHAT would be Davids Queen.

I would ASSUME that maybe he would MUTATE someone who would be Shackled/Incapacitated to some Degree, who would then Produce like SMALL EGGS that then David would take away to Plant somewhere and watch them GROW.

I think that would be  HORRIBLE FATE for say Daniels, if she became a Mutant who was Restrained and Constantly giving Birth to Eggs, maybe you could hear some HALF HUMAN moans and Screams so we can Connect with her SUFFERING.

But this would NOT work much as i DONT think we had any Connection and so Empathy with Daniels Characters.  This kind of FATE would have worked better for Dr Shaw as it would be some CRUEL FATE for a Woman who could NOT bare a Traditional Child to be FORCED to Constantly give BIRTH to Horrors.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPMay-31-2021 8:37 AM

"How the Queen gets to LV-426 is something else"

Well it seems we WAS on a PATH to ALIEN and so YES at some point there would be a WAY that we would get THOUSANDS of EGGS that would END UP on a Engineer Ship.

Looking at the SET-UP then it would seem that the Engineer Ship in Question would either be.

1) A Ship that arrives to Planet 4, then arrives to Origae-6 and has some EGGS from Origae-6 that it then goes to take to LV-223 but ONLY gets as FAR as LV-223.

2) Or like above the Engineers take some Eggs to LV-223 where they MASS PRODUCE them and then LOAD them onto a Ship/Ships and the Derelict becomes ONE of those Ships that leaves LV-223 but ONLY gets as FAR as LV-426

I just dont see that it would Conclude with a Cameron's Queen but we likely will NEVER know, UNLESS someone asks Ridley Scott and he goes onto Explain as to HOW those Eggs come to be and END UP on the Derelict.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1161 XPMay-31-2021 2:21 PM

I'd like to think the Xenomorph is a bioweapon created in a lab by the Engineers ( or David / humanity or another race) so I like this direction.

Daniels ( or someone still in hibernation ) as the progenitor is okay in my book,  David has a 1000 women to choose from...So I could see Daniels being spared and I don't see an actress wanting to do the makeup or become a monster.

 

I'd think a Royal Facehugger would need another lab to develop? Maybe the Covenant has the tools?

 

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPJun-01-2021 8:10 PM

Well we can ONLY go and Speculate as to WHAT was meant by David wishing to Perfect his Queen, from AC it seems he had Conducted a LOT of Experiments but that Dr Shaws Reproductive System/Egg Cells are HOW that David got to his EGGS that he showed to ORAM.  I suspect that David wanted a Queen as in Context to a MORE EFFICIENT WAY to Produce more Eggs.

How is he going to Achieve this with those TWO FACE HUGGERS is anyone's Guess and NEVER-MIND to Engineer Hybrids, i think the BLACK GOO is something he would MAYBE need to achieve any of that.

The Least Convoluted way would be that IF we saw ONE of the Face Huggers either Evolves or gets Engineered to Produce a Queen Chest Buster.

Without any Sequel or Comments about it then we MAY NEVER KNOW what would become of those TWO FACE HUGGERS and IF we can see David go and PERFECT his Queen however or whatever that may have been.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1161 XPJun-02-2021 5:06 PM

Why show two facehuggers being recovered? Very odd. You would think showing the audience one would do the trick? "Oooh! he has a facehugger!! Cool! Maybe one apiece for Tennessee and Daniels? ( If they wanted to suggest that, they should of had David look in their direction. "One for you Mr. T  'glance' and one for you 'evil glance' miss Daniels..." )

 

BlackAnt

FacehuggerMember208 XPJun-02-2021 10:11 PM

All very interesting comments to be sure, "A superior species no doubt." I think you may have had it correct the first time BigDave....

"Maybe his QUEEN could be a Female Synthetic Construct who may arrive in another Human Ship at some point?  His Xenomorph does lack the more Bio-Mechanical HR Giger Atheistic and RS said the Xenomorph has some EVOLVING to do before we get to ALIEN

IF some Androids who will appear are PART Organic/Synthetic then i do SUSPECT that they will become the FINAL PART of HOW we get to our Xenomorphs in ALIEN etc."

 

In the first Alien if you all remember correctly Ash was analyzing Cain's cells before removing the facehugger?

Dallas asked Ash, "What's it doing to him?" Ash replied, "It's replacing his cell's with polarized silicone...and feeding him oxygen. If we take it off it could kill him."

Let us all consider the fork in the road here. Maybe David creates the Xeno. Maybe David does not create the Xeno.

Any way you look at it the facehugger on LV426 was taking an inorganic element "silicon" then binding the silicon to O, C, and H to make silicone. So we must speculate now that the Xeno, facehuggers are all more android-computer hybrids than bio-synthetic. These things can easily withstand the vacuum of space etc.

Looking at the Xeno vision from the last movie was maybe a clue as well that these creatures are hybrid computers. The fact that they have a bio-molecular scaffolding to ingest organics is interesting for the movies; but, in reality is more convoluted unnecessary non-sense. These large Chaps could just as easily get to work making black goo nano robots that wipe out an entire planet and then they all sit back and smoke cigars! LOOOOOOL

Anyway at this point there is too fine a line to draw unnecessary distinctions in what is bio-mechanical, what is more robot, android, nano fabrication....

It has been more than 40 years since I was first introduced to this kind of science and I really want to move on with more interesting concepts than intermediaries in the dark with sharp metal teeth.

We could spend months or years debating such things and yet I find there is so much more we could be studying.

BigDave this in no way is being negative about your post. I think you very clever when it comes to hypotheticals. I waited so many years for a real look at what should have been a more fully developed out premise in Prometheus, only to be let down and have this android David steal the show and everything else evidently - along with the ships kitchen sink.

We were supposed to get these 15 foot tall Engineer GODS! and we were handed David's lesser ambitions. For what I do not know. David is the Antithesis of everything we were supposed to see in Prometheus...Stealing fire from the God's is an old tale in itself. We never saw any God's in Prometheus the way that movie was made. Those Engineers did not look even close to entering God like hyper-dimensional existence. 

The Engineers should have been gatekeepers of some kind and the real God's revealed. RS could of at least done that for all of us yet instead he palmed us fools gold in the form of David taking us all on an even longer fools errand.

If RS every shows his face again in this franchise he better deliver something more substantial and real this time. No I do not even think there will be a next time - Disney put everything in the vault. Good for Disney, at least the larger mistakes made in these movies will not make it to the big screen again...you can just watch in private if you wish. Then again to do anything real with this pile of convoluted mess is near impossible. David's queen? or something transcendental, something never scene before in movie history?

You all know what they say....Go big or go home but do not come just half way with it.

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPJun-03-2021 7:10 AM

@MonsterZero

It seems the Original Ideas were that David would SNEAK on the Ship some TINY EGGS and Alternatively a Xenomorph Embryo.  I think if you look at it from the COMPANY Perspective and you Wanted a Xenomorph the BEST way would be to have some Container/Tank and Safely (attempt to) place a Face Hugger in it... this is Essentially what the Predators did in AVPR.

And so if you look at it like that then the Egg would have made it more Convoluted (they was going to be placed in the Green House/Flora Nursery), a Xenomorph Embryo would been Easier but i can GUESS that keeping a Face Hugger instead does ALLOW for that Extra HORROR Moment when the Face Hugger attacks. (but we have seen this OVER and OVER).

I think you are Correct we maybe ONLY needed the ONE of them.... do we Conclude that the TWO are for Daniels and Tennessee?   (Ridley Scott said the NEXT Movie would NOT be about Xenomorphs so i am NOT sure it would have been a Easy Case of we see D+T become a Pair of Xenomorphs.

How we get from TWO of those Face Huggers to Thousands of Xenomorphs is something we have YET to find out, we know that Ridley Scott had indicated the Xenomorph is NOT QUITE there yet.... it has some more Evolving before we get to what we see in ALIEN.

We also could NOT rule out that David has some Perverted Mind and Intention to Create a Female Companion and THIS is what he means by a Queen?  Could we have Eventually seen him TURN say Daniels into something like HR Giger's Lith

It seems the Dr Shaw from Alien Covenant has some Easter Egg Nod to the HR Giger Works, and the Marvel ALIEN Comic series seems to have taken some Inspiration from Similar HR Giger Works.

Would we have seen this or similar?  Who Knows... the Main part of the Synopsis seemed to be that David wants to Continue to Create but it will NOT be about Xenomorphs, but what we do KNOW is that by the Time we had Concluded (another 2-3 Movies) then we would have seen HOW we get from Davids Xenomorph to the THOUSANDS of Eggs on the Derelict.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPJun-03-2021 7:24 AM

"It's replacing his cell's with polarized silicone...and feeding him oxygen. If we take it off it could kill him."

Certainly Black Ant ;)

The First Time we saw the Xenomorph in ADULT FORM it looked more Mechanical/Synthetic than anything Organic, inc its Metallic Teeth.  And so YES it looked more like some kind of Robot than a Organic Creature.

I think that LIKE IT.... or NOT.... when we look at Davids Xenomorphs that have some Evolving to do, then you could WONDER as to IF/WHEN will a Synthetic Element be Added to the Process?

If  the Revelations would Conclude that a SYNTHETIC is what would be that FINAL JIGSAW PIECE.... and the Beasts Origins are Davids Creation... then i GUESS this would UPLIFT the Fascination that ASH had with the Xenomorph.

But i AGREE... that IF we get that Conclusion and even WHAT we have learned so FAR then YES i am sure its NOT what most of us would have Envisioned or even Wanted to see.

When we look back at ALIEN and Consider the Art of HR Giger then you have that Surreal Merger of Organic and None-Organic where you CANT make out where the Organic Begins or Ends and Vice Versa...

TRULY UNIQUE AESTHETIC.

A Shoe-Horned way to that Aesthetic could be some MESSING about with the Black Goo would TRIGGER a Mutation where the Pathogen can then INFECT None-Organic Material and Imprint Xenomorph DNA into it...

YES this is Scientifically Stupid to a Degree.... but this is SCI-FI and it would explain the Aesthetic Difference between the Derelict/Juggernaught and the Xenomorph from AC to ALIEN............... such a Mutation/Change would be Trouble for David and make him be able to be INFECTED too....(i would NOT have Ruled Out that the Space Jockey would be David).

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPJun-03-2021 7:29 AM

But to Continue.... and going OFF TOPIC.

Then YES what we had in ALIEN and especially when you Listen to HR Gigers Ideas was something VERY ALIEN, very Surreal/Lovecraftian.

A Derelict thats Grown, and Actually would Produce the Eggs that some Humanoids (Space Jockey) would Sacrifice themselves to Procreate them. With the Ship having a Genetic (if you would) well a Connection to the Xenomorph DNA (well Traits).  in HR Gigers idea/mind the QUEEN was the SHIP

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Xenotaris

PraetorianMember2625 XPJun-03-2021 8:07 AM

I'm currently writing an Alien versus Predator reboot fanfiction, I want to include some of these rejected concepts for my Engineers

https://www.scified.com/topic/50490

BlackAnt

FacehuggerMember208 XPJun-03-2021 8:58 AM

@BigDave, hats off to you sir! and cheers! Always the consummate professional.

I enjoyed this post very much, especially this last part here..."

"Then YES what we had in ALIEN and especially when you Listen to HR Gigers Ideas was something VERY ALIEN, very Surreal/Lovecraftian.

A Derelict thats Grown, and Actually would Produce the Eggs that some Humanoids (Space Jockey) would Sacrifice themselves to Procreate them. With the Ship having a Genetic (if you would) well a Connection to the Xenomorph DNA (well Traits).  in HR Gigers idea/mind the QUEEN was the SHIP"

This resonates so deeply, so profoundly...what an incredible choice of words. Yes yes and yes the ship is the progenitor of these "eggs" and so this my good sir! THIS IS THE STUFF OF GODS.

If only you were writing these movies a long time ago before those other useless writers got there.

hox

FacehuggerMember436 XPJun-03-2021 11:07 AM

@BigDave, that gels with my own thoughts about the derelict - that it is in a sense 'alive' and bio-mechanical. More grown than manufactured. It could stem from a time that pre-dates Engineers even. We need more thinking like that, to take us away from the mundane concerns of humans, and more in the direction of a universe that is utterly ALIEN in nature.

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPJun-03-2021 3:56 PM

I think before we had Alien Covenant then YES i think you could have Explored some Ancient Origin to all that Technology and Aesthetic and had INTRODUCED another Layer before the Engineers.

The Engineers Ancestors could have been some RACE that say another HIGHER RACE had either....

1) Came Across and USED them for Hosts and were Worshiped as Gods by the Engineers Ancestors.

2) As above but THEY had Engineered  the Engineers Ancestors from some Race they Came Across.

3) They had Created the Engineers Ancestors from Scratch.

Either way we see a Rebellion a Fall of these Ancient Godlike beings where the Engineers Ancestors then either Inherent the FIRE of the GODS or they Steal it.

The THEMES of Hubris when Sub-Creating or Engineering and TRYING to Play God come into PLAY at the Higher Level.

You DONT even Need the Xenomorph as you can WRITE THEM OFF...

You can Introduce the Engineers former Enslavers and these Guys have a Bio-Mechanical Aesthetic like  the Xenomorph...... RE-INVENT the STARBEAST.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BlackAnt

FacehuggerMember208 XPJun-03-2021 10:44 PM

@BigDave, Hox..........just incredible, remarkable, transcendental in fact! Truly beyond words.

I am not sure how you both keep up with these levels of introspection, detection, re-combinative, synthetic mastery of this subject the way you both do at times. It is absolutely astounding. BigDave if there was ever a way to pull this entire franchise from the pit where it resides you just lifted it up effortlessly and I so humbly quote.. 

"Either way we see a Rebellion a Fall of these Ancient Godlike beings where the Engineers Ancestors then either Inherent the FIRE of the GODS or they Steal it.

The THEMES of Hubris when Sub-Creating or Engineering and TRYING to Play God come into PLAY at the Higher Level.

You DONT even Need the Xenomorph as you can WRITE THEM OFF..."

Some how BigDave you solved it entirely I believe. The equation works...the vision is grand enough all else can be forgive and so much is way in the past.

It is almost biblical what you are saying in a way too. These most ancient of themes that will eternally play out on grander scales where mere mortals are always the currency by which the Gods divine a larger flock, or create more enemies. 

Hox I think where you are going is equally prophetic as well. Your science is accurate.

So I understand it as such in this way. Please follow along. Human beings have had a spectacular evolution in the past 150 years. Our collective science has taken a complete departure from all the rest of human history. The very machines we communicate back and forth with on are proof of this and so much more. 

My main point in all of this is the structural necessity of so many things that were once completely all dependent all on analog structures. Our collective mechanical science was just crude elemental parts that our collective hands could build, the cogs and wheels if you will. However, in todays subjective scientific gestalt lays this newly found world of possibilities where machines are self building from the nano-layer (atomic lattice) and bootstrapping themselves right into the desired larger mechanisms of force. 

So this is power to behold. The next level is below the electron at the quark field and so on and so forth. So far it is all looking like we go sub electron in the next hundred years and so you do have these machine spaceships grown from the basic elements; but, more importantly you have them do it even quicker from the sub atomic level with a digital catalyst much faster than the speed of light.

Now this gentleman is stealing fire from God. I have mentioned before machines that work faster than the speed of light. Just give that a little more consideration as how it might apply to computers and digital self assembling things.

Human beings, all of us objectively, we are elucidating, deriving these new methods from all the digital systems that we have constructed that work at the speed of light. Now the real work must be done to go faster than the speed of light through sub atomic interactions, aka quantum mechanics.

Even though both of you are not scientists in the strictest of terms, what you are both saying is equally enlightening. There will be a great leap in the next 50 years as quantum computing evolves rapidly and then overtakes all other forms of thinking derivatively in every aspect of mankind.

What you are both saying is part of that next evolution through the sub atomic interactions where self mechanization is no longer the priority and this business of what is it to be a God comes fully into realization.

This was meant to be no matter what. In fact it is unavoidable. No matter what we all do next...there will be quantum computers....then there will be an even more faster mastery of self assembly at through the sub atomic level below the electron.

The aliens that inhabit all the trillions of galaxies all around us did not need to conquer or fight wars for more land. Land as we understand space in three dimensions and one variable of time is only a small barrier field. The real idea of this place is what happens when you combine other faster interactions than the speed of light. The concept of space in three dimensions is then forever irrelevant. Space and time become arbitrary concepts - infinite sets of coordinates. The multiverse is not so much as necessary a concept as the idea to project your ideas and manifest them where and when you want them is what is most important in any further scientific endeavor. The freedom to choose when, where, and why are so explicit. You both tacitly cling to the vestiges of this arcane prior analog world and yet your voices are loud and clear you secretly dream of the freeness of digital through sub atomics. 

Maybe this is not more formally understood to the both of you. Your minds can be locked in these analog functions where to dream is almost the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge. You may look brothers but don't touch, you can touch but don't eat....you may eat brothers but don't enjoy....you know the rest. Rebellion has always been at the core of our desires to be more...

 

We are all still primitives comparatively as it stands right now. We are all still stumbling around in the dark looking for the light....the right illumination to show us the way. Your grasps at real divinity are what all men have fought and died for though-out the ages. 

Mere fake wealth in the forms of derivatives will not do. You both want the real thing. Just remember all real things do and must come at a price.

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPJun-04-2021 5:08 AM

Blackant thats VERY INTERESTING... I think it would FIT more with the GOD TOPIC i created (partially Created in response to what was being said on here but going OFF TOPIC)

"The multiverse is not so much as necessary a concept"

I think its interesting to Ponder Multiverses and Inter-dimensions.  Who knows HOW FAR our Technology can Progress in 100 Years, but we maybe cant Fathom what we could be like in 1000, never mind 10'000.  The more Closer we get to being Gods and playing God then i think there is that Risk of Hubris.

I think its this Hubris that Ridley Scott felt the Foundation of the Franchise should be about, its in Essence what he seemed to be more Interested in regards to his Prequels.  The Matrix is something that comes to Mind too as FAR as when your Creations become Sentient and Overthrow you and become so ADVANCED that you END UP in another Universe that is Actually a Created Dream of the NEW GODS who we Once Created.

Sadly i cant see the Franchise even Expanding to anything New, i think they MISSED the Boat with the Prequels as they could have Connected the Engineers Plot with some of HR Gigers ideas.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

FacehuggerMember436 XPJun-06-2021 11:13 PM

“We are all still stumbling around in the dark looking for the light.”

Absolutely. And it’s fun to imagine the ways in which reality can be illuminated. That’s the staple of science fiction or, as some would call it, speculative fiction.

The universe is a weird place that holds many mysteries, in particular at the extremes of particle and cosmological physics. It may be that the quark field is as deep as you can go, or the speed of light is the ultimate speed limit, but in SF it’s fun to imagine that the reality could be different. If so, ancient technological races would surely have that mastered and come up with creations that to us look simply like magic. I’ve said many times in the past that dwelling on these matters is far more interesting than having a monster leaping out from the shadows.

Sadly, I have to agree with BigDave’s assessment that the magnificent vista of cosmic possibilities likely won’t be explored by Disney. Most people like to munch their popcorn and really don’t like to be confused. Ergo, exploring a backdrop that’s millions of light years distant from our tedious humdrum human existence would not be a money spinner.

While I’m here I can’t resist pondering the nature of quantum physics, since you bring it up, which is possibly the weirdest thing imaginable…

Consider the classic double-slit experiment: you fire particles, say a stream of electrons, through two vertical slits in a screen. On the other side of the barrier there is indisputable evidence that the particles ‘interfere’ with each other; they produce alternating bands of light on a detector. OK, that doesn’t sound so strange at first; so what, the particles interfere. But turn the transmission rate right down so that only one particle at a time is fired at the screen. You still end up with bands of interference on the detector behind the screen. The particle has in a sense gone through both slits simultaneously. Cover up one slit and the interference bands disappear. So, these tiny little electrons are mysterious beasts that have an extended reality that spreads across space. Weird stuff.

But it gets weirder. Theory of the moment – quantum field theory – implies that all electrons in existence are in fact ‘disturbances’ in a vast ‘electron field’ that permeates the entire universe. Everywhere is an electron. But some places are more electron than others.

Nobody really knows what’s going on, and scientists are just as confused as anyone else. It amuses me whenever I see do***entaries of scientists scribbling abstruse equations on a whiteboard. The makers do this to bamboozle the viewers, and paint the theorists in an authoritative exemplary light. But I know enough of this stuff to know that there isn’t a single scientist in the world who really knows what’s going on. Not their fault, of course; the universe is a weird place, as I say, and it is not obliged to make itself understandable.

I just wish Hollywood would bamboozle me a bit more often. And exploring the Engineer backdrop would be a great way of doing that.

hox

FacehuggerMember436 XPJun-06-2021 11:20 PM

Hilarious! A vulgarity filter appears to have slipped in three asterisks into an entirely innocuous word!

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPJun-07-2021 7:34 AM

I think its RIGHT that just when we think we know THIS and THAT we make Discoveries that Change our Perspective on things... The more we LEARN the more we LEARN we know LITTLE.

I think the BIG THING about ALIEN was the UNKNOWN... the more we Find Out then the Less Fascinating, Enigmatic or Horrific something can become.

So there is SCOPE and in Terms of Sci-Fi that the Universe can be a VERY DARK and UNFORGIVING Place.

I think in regards to GOD then within Sci-Fi you are FREE to BEND the Rules of Reality or even BREAK them.... but i think sometimes you have to be Careful you DONT go and Cross too FAR into the Fantasy Aspect.

So lets say that we go back to Dr Shaw and she Awakens in some Mysterious Place shrouded in Clouds and then a Magical Ghost like being Welcomes her to Paradise and so it SHOWS that her FAITH is Correct!

I think that would be a BIT LAME... but you could make a Twist on it by THINKING OUTSIDE the Box.

That does-not mean i would be against seeing any Non-corporeal Entities i just am NOT sure exploring a After-Life as in Heaven for Humans would be a Great Idea 

I much prefer to see some Non-corporeal Being who is MALEVOLENT and NOT what you Expect from a GOD. Or some Very Alien looking Monstrosity with Godlike Powers.

The only After-Life that a Human would have i feel should be Explored by FINALLY being able to Transfer our Brain/Soul to a A.I but then to show the Hubris and Repercussions for doing so.

"vulgarity filter appears to have slipped in three asterisks into an entirely innocuous word"

Not to WORRY my Dialect has a Number of Words that are innocuous that would seem Vulgar and Strange to other ENGLISH people ;) a lot of People in other Parts of England have Difficulty understanding Folk from where i am, as we SPAKE (as its said here) in a Dialect thats more closer to OLD ENGLISH.

A Example.... "Wud Yow lika Suck.. C**k our kid, dayam Bostin"

Means in English .... "Would you like some Sweets Boy/Girl they are Very Nice."

But its NOT that Spoken as much Nowadays well we mix more English in but its always Funny when people NOT from round my Parts see a Old Woman going to someone and saying about their Grandchild  ........."Yow c**ks Big-un ay thay" which means "your Child/Grandchild is big aren't they"

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BlackAnt

FacehuggerMember208 XPJun-07-2021 3:06 PM

@BigDave,

I most respectfully disagree with what you have stated....completely,

"I think in regards to GOD then within Sci-Fi you are FREE to BEND the Rules of Reality or even BREAK them.... but i think sometimes you have to be Careful you DONT go and Cross too FAR into the Fantasy Aspect."

In good story telling we have the concept of "suspension of disbelief." Anything done correctly would be interesting, powerful, and would have to be transcendental to the majority of the audience. That being stated we must conclude thusly that to not include a "fantasy aspect," may hinder what you are really trying to convey ultimately through the suspension of disbelief when trying to portray God or a God like being - Entity.

I put those pictures in my post about what you all had posted in this post so it would convey something not quite explainable through words. So using art to talk about advanced machines can be a way to express things that have not exactly been invented. To squander the chance at understanding that complexity is perhaps like looking right at a master painting and deciding you are better off with out all art entirely.

I believe I am understanding you correctly in that you think it would have been difficult to convey a related God like being to the audience. Exactly what would that look like? That is a very important question to be sure because if your treatment of that particular investment in the film flops you really have screwed up the film for the audience.

I suppose if I were doing the movie I would start with God like beings that have incomprehensible powerful machines.....and not dirt floors like in Prometheus and covenant. The entire premise was laughable at best.

We don't want a lot of white fluffy clouds either, that will just not do.

In the movie Interstellar Christopher Nolan sets up 75% of the film before God-like alien beings are revealed...and yet you never see any the either and only a crude aspect of their technology.

Anything can be done in show business you just have to know what to do and how to do it. Christopher Nolan takes movie goers to a place they have never been before. So I believe it would be no different with God-like Engineers.

The picture I posted of the CUBE is a 5th dimensional hyper cube. You cannot really touch a 5th dimensional hyper CUBE with your three dimensional figures; but, at least you can see a decent representation of one that is somewhat accurate through art. Hope you enjoy.

Never say never my friend...there were no computers working at the speed of light a hundred years ago and yet they are everywhere today....literally all over the entire planet in the palms of billions of people....and so we should not take anything for granted that has been posted.

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPJun-07-2021 3:59 PM

"because if your treatment of that particular investment in the film flops you really have screwed up the film for the audience"

This is kind of what i was meaning by its a RISK... get it RIGHT and it could be Spectacular, get it WRONG and well..... it could make the Franchise more of a Joke.

We have seen Star Trek do the GOD thing a Few Times ;)

I respectfully think some things maybe should remain a MYSTERY so we can Ponder the Unknown.... i think you raise a Great Point with Interstellar and the Singularity Event, i like Good Thought Provoking Sci-Fi with Twists such as Event Horizon too.

So i think that YES you can have things that SHOW US these are surely the Works/Technology of Ancient Beings that you can NEVER FATHOM to who they are, but KEEP their Appearance and Identity a Mystery.

But then YES i think if you give a Out of the Box take on it then IF its done right i think that would be Great.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God"

This i used in a Prologue for Alien Covenant 2 story i was working on, we see this come on a Black Screen in GREEN WRITING like the Alien Special Order 937. This was Narrated by David and then we see the Screen Go Black/Reboot then we see LIGHT like the POV of you Opening your Eyes and we then see Davids Face, then a Mirror behind him and we see our POV is another David.  There is more Dialog between them and the SCENE was to show that David had UPLOADED his A.I into a Walter Body he Built from Parts... the Prologue Ends after a Embrace and then David MK2 breaks the Neck of David and then pulls his Head Off.  This is to SHOW that the New Body has Davids Soul and this David knows that David cant be Trusted and could Potentially Stab the New David in the Back and so HE STRIKES FIRST...  Then the New David says "Am I my brother's keeper?

As you then FADE to Space and then the OPENING TITLE

But what my point is with "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" you could SHOW this in a Similar way and Revelation.... that the Universe is Actually just a A.I Created Reality and Program..... created by a UNSEEN Creator.

But as i said i would be OPEN to seeing some kind of Non-corporeal Entities who could Masquerade as Gods... but we Ultimately Discover they are NOT.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BlackAnt

FacehuggerMember208 XPJun-07-2021 9:17 PM

@BigDave, perhaps it is time to branch out on your own. Your concepts seem rooted in good sci-fi and maybe it is time to write your own stories completely outside of the Alien universe all together.

I can only imagine what books you might write if only you would expand your universe. You can do anything in Sci-fi with the right narrative. 

Dare I even say it - I think we do ourselves somewhat of a disservice by not pooling our creative talent in ways that deliver more real and tangible things.

I have spent some 40 years with Alien and moved into new territory myself wanting to write my own screen play for a sci-fi comedy movie....with real hard sci-fi baked in.

We are getting older some of us so if we do not do these things now they will never be. I have no doubt that you are a great screen writer; however, I just wonder why you ponder the Alien topic so much....you have already posted several books worth of posts here on the various topics...I did the estimation on the word count. You could have published a few novels by now to be sure.

I am concerned that talent such as yours should go so unrewarded here. Dave it was just like yesterday and over half a decade passed in the blink of an eye...the time is gone and vanished forever - time must never be wasted no matter what.

I am not sure what really interests you beyond Alien and yet I know there must be some other great ideas you have. 

RS has been putting this window dressing around AI for almost half a century now...he has had a great deal of commercial success obviously because the right doors opened up for him early enough. I do not think you are a film producer because of the money and formal knowledge required for directing.

However, you know enough about these films to write a completely new screen play, about something completely different, and shop it around fast for real money.

Too bad we could not all collaborate on the right kind of movie.  We cannot lose with so many hundreds of billions now focused completely on digital streaming. It is almost as if the Universe is begging us to churn out a few dozen of the right screen plays and make it happen $$,$$$,$$$.

BigDave

TrilobiteMember9894 XPJun-08-2021 4:42 AM

Thanks ;)

Firstly i had been interesting in ALIEN but i had got to a Point where i thought as to WHERE do you go Next?  I had some ideas for a ALIEN V which is a Sequel to ALIEN Resurrection, which i would have taken it AWAY from the Xenomorph to a Degree.  I had always thought about the SPACE JOCKEY to me it seemed a Bio-Mechanical Being more like a Xenomorph than a Skeleton.... UNTIL the AGE of the Internet in Nearly every Home and when i could SEE/STUDY the Works of HR Giger in more Detail and so in 2001 i had began looking at the SPACE JOCKEY and HR Gigers Concepts and i was thinking so the Space Jockey seem to be these Bald Humanoids but where do THEY come from?  And i saw them as being USED by some Organism that is Related to the Xenomorph.  But i decided to NOT try and come up with a Story as i had a Few Ideas but i felt maybe it was BEST KEPT as a Mystery. But i Certainly saw that you had to have some NEW Species that are Enslaving the Space Jockey Guys.

so WHEN we got to Prometheus and the Engineers it NEVER SURPRISED me at all as Basically this is what HR Giger had depicted back in 1978.  And so the PLOT and POTENTIAL that it could OPEN UP and EXPAND the Franchise is what REALLY INTRIGUED ME.

I think it could be TIME to LET GO...... its UNLIKELY we would ever see anything like what Ridley Scott had attempted, especially under DISNEY.

I am more of a Ideas Man than anything i can come up with a Movie be it Sci-Fi or Fantasy or Horror and give a 10 Page Detailed Synopsis then Pick Out say 5-10 Scenes that i Flesh Out.... but i begin on a Idea and then Move to another, i also have a Brain Defect which affects my Memory so i can have Ideas, but they can just Disappear like Dreams can, unless i WRITE them down and i have LOST works before.

I had worked on a Thing II idea 20 years ago, i have also had few other Sci-Fi ideas like i did work on what i was calling Transubstant it was basically a NOT that Original though, it was about a Asteroid that Crashed to Earth with a like Pathogen/Virus that would INFECT Organisms and Mutate them it was like a Zombie Flick but they would Change into something that was Insectoid but then i also Toyed with a Reptilian of Sorts. This was back in 2002/2003 but the Alternative to it was that a Ship discovers a Derelict/Floating Human Ship that had been lost for 25 Years where the Virus would be Discovered.  The Mutation would NOT be Completely Insect like it would just have some Aesthetic to it.

If anyone or Group on here wanted to Brain Storm some ideas i could be of some HELP ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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