Which Alien suit was better? Alien (1979) or Aliens (1986)?2,197 Views12 RepliesAdd A Reply
Between the classic H.R. Giger suit from 1979's Alien and James Cameron's redesign in 1986's Aliens, which Alien suit do you think represented the Beast the best? 79's Alien suit was bulkier overall, had the smooth dome while 86's suit saw a slightly leaner build for the Xenomorph and a rigged dome. Hands, tails, dorsal tubes and teeth are all slightly changed between both suits. Which gets your vote?
For me, I always liked the look of Giger's original. It's hard to beat, but Cameron's redesign usually stands out more to people since his sequel is often thought of as the more popular film. Tough choice.
Nice to see a Vote System ;)
I think the IDEA in Aliens is to make them look the same, the Head looks Different only because the Clear Dome was something that would be too Fragile and get Falling Off due to the Heavy Action Scenes.
The Xenomorph looks more BETTER with it on as in The Big Chap, i think the Xenomorphs in ALIENS in some Shots did-not look as Elegant as in ALIEN and this was Mainly due to MASS PRODUCTION of Costumes and HOW those Stunt Actors in the Costumes were NOT all really TALL or really THIN so they looked Bulky.
The Xenomorph in ALIEN looked Elegant due to HOW SLENDER it was and how LONG the Legs were, and with ALIEN COVENANT the Xenomorph looked the same as in ALIEN its a Shame we NEVER SAW much of the Costume in FULL but again this WORKED due to having a TALL/THIN Actor in the Suit. Something which the other Appearances in the Franchise including the AVP Movies just NEVER Quite got IT as Right..... its NOT EASY to go and Find say 5+ near 7ft Actors who are VERY THIN.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Yes the voting system has been a long time coming hahaha I finally got all the coding done for it! Had to build one from scratch lol Should be fun and add some more engagement to the forums!
And I agree, there was definitely an essence lost with the Aliens redesign. The Big Chap has this eery, ominous presence to it. Whereas the Aliens Morphs seem frail and just not as intimidating.
Its offensive to not have a single vote for the Aliens (1986) suit.
Watched ALIENS Last Night in in MOST Scenes it looked Decent, i think the CONCEPT/IDEA of the Xenomorph is Legendary but to Portray it on SCREEN with a Man in a Suit you are ALWAYS going to have some Issues when looking at the ENTIRE Suit. This TOPIC seems to be to Discus the Actual Suit in which i Prefer the Elegance of the 1979 Version the Hands are a Little Disappointing in some Scenes though.
I think the Queen from ALIENS looked Great because you did-not have to PLAY by the Limits of having a Monster Suit/Costume. Regardless i dont think there is a MASSIVE Difference between the 1979 Xenomorph Drone and 1986 Warrior the Warrior had become Iconic to many, it would have LOOKED a bit Different had they been able to Keep the Semi-Clear Domes in place and having them not Crack and Fall Off.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Well well well.....Did IQ's drop sharply while I was away!!!! Yes the false reports of my death were premature indeed.....no tears were shed for me when I was not here all these long months....sniff sniff sniff sighhhhh......pffffft too!
Anyways lets get to it then LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!
So TRIPLE OG Alien 1979? or Different 1986 Alien?
For me I have always and will continue to loath the clear carapace, or head covering that reveals the eye sockets....When I was in the theater and saw the original Alien in 1979 you could not see the eye sockets what so ever....and every time I see "The original Big Chap" with those ridiculous eye sockets I would rather shave my head with a cheese grader and chew on tin foil!!!
So for me and forever I enjoy both monsters equally as long as you cannot see those big silly eye sockets.
For me the Alien was more intriguing and mysterious for the simple fact that it did not need eyes at all to hunt it's prey. Eyes are a vulnerability for something so advanced as a bio-mechanical weapon designed by the engineers, which are millions of years more evolved than humans. So no I hate the clear carapace head piece and always have and always will.
What I despise even more is that supposedly David made the Alien that we see on LV-426? I say supposedly because in a sane world where there would never be preposterous ignorant prequels, there would instead be real movies with writers and producers that have real talent. We have all payed such a high price for the sin conjured up as AC. No I shall not defend this ridiculousness that the original Alien was milked for to the last drop. I drink no more from the chalice of what may have been or what could be. Prometheus was a good looking film with potential....and yet somehow we were all cheated like so much fodder for a quick buck so we could see some slick fast CGI of the engineers and then....David some how mastering millions of years old Alien technology and wiping them all out with their own weapons.....Ok believe that nonsense if you want to; however, in reality that story-line is only believable for the weak minded movie goers. You really believe the Engineers had no security protocols on their technology? Seriously?
If you believe that they did not then I have a slightly used juggernaut to sell if anyone is interested....very low miles of course.
Does anyone see any eyes here.....I don't and millions of other Alien fans did not see the beast with any eyes either. I could post hundreds of other pics but I will not....we all like what we like and that is that!
This is in bronze by the way and no eyes either!
Been a while BlackAnt, nice to see you back! There's a lot to unpack in your reply, so let me focus on a couple points that stood out.
The clear dome, eye sockets look to me was way more menacing than no eyes at all! Technically speaking we both conclude the same observation, the Beast had no eyes and such avoided such a vulnerability, as you put. I don't think the clear dome and empty eye sockets of the original 1979 design made the Alien look any less menacing, in fact I find the empty eye socket / skull attribute adds a terrifying aspect to the creature's design.
Regarding David's use of ancient Engineer tech and bypassing their security protocols. Keep in mind, A.I. even at its most primitive stage in our world today can calculate problems many times faster than the organic Human brain. An A.I. as advanced as David would have no trouble assessing, decrypting and cracking any code established by any organic species. He studied the Engineer language and for all we know was able to communicate on a different level with perhaps the Engineer's own local A.I. on LV-223. He was able to exhibit knowledge in decoding Engineer symbols when he led the Weyland team into the Engineer facilities, opening doors and activating hologram recordings. It's not far out to assume David could interpret and interact with alien tech with ease. We also don't know how much pre-screening of Weyland info regarding Engineers David underwent before the Prometheus mission. I'm sure he did some homework.
The Runner design is definitely a great design too and I'll add it to another Poll in the future. This topic was more so only to compare the Alien designs of Alien and Aliens, not the entire lineup of entries in the Xenomorph family.
And finally, although I too was a tad disappointed by Alien: Covenant, it still did the beast plenty of justice and turned it back... somewhat... into the ominous, hard-to-kill antagonist we all remembered, instead of the Canon fodder of Cameron's sequel and Alien: Resurrection.
@Chris, thanks it's good to be back and cheers to everyone else as well.
This David thing is perplexing and always has been a point of contention for me after viewing AC. I like parts of AC but as whole I just did not get into the CGI beast.
David figuring out millions of years Engineer tech to me would be like taking people from 25 thousand years ago, with bows and arrows and asking them to reverse engineer a CPU.
I think David is a smart human AI computer; however, there is no way for film makers to make a film truly relatable about such advanced aliens because there really would be no way for us to understand it without all the conventional plot details to make it easy enough for audience members to understand.
I just don't think David could reverse engineer a millions of years old alien AI system. To me I think their code may work faster than the speed of light and at a much smaller scale in hyper-dimensional space....technically places David's limited AI would just not have enough processing power to untangle.
They would also employ different physics and time would most certainly factor in so it may be both physically impossible for David to understand and interact with something that the machine would not let him interact with.
For example, lets say I program a computer and tell it back in time several weeks ago from now "do not let any one access this interface or do not run this code no matter what happens - so no other systems are accessible".
The time scales are just to vast. We might have quantum computers that are very powerful in a hundred years. Engineers at this level of evolution would be able to fold a few trillion universes of code into there systems. It would be beyond anything we could conceive of for many generations of AI....Their AI's would learn too and they would control them. David is depicted as having a quantum qubit computer for a brain; however, his processing power would have arcane limitations compared to the Engineers. They travel faster than the speed of light so their AI computers work faster than the speed of light. This means so many things.
Violating causality presents challenges to David's physical limitations in a specific time line no matter how fast his AI mind might work.
AC is a good looking film overall...I enjoyed the acting. Yet all the parts did not justify the whole for me. After the original Alien it is very hard to recreate that level of uniqueness in so many other films.
Welcome back Black Ant ;)
Firstly i have to agree to a degree i do like the Dome but i also prefer the View/Versions were you CANT really make out the SKULL, you can make out something but its NOT that Clear.
Regarding the David as the Creator i think it makes PERFECT sense as far as the PLOT and Story Arc and Themes, but then having him Create something that SIMILAR but Not the Same (lets say the Ultramorph Design) would have FITTED with the ARC and kept the Original Origins a Mystery.
I think the Xenomorph in AC looks Good in some Shots, and in others its NOT like the Greatest, but with some CGI then that does affect the Budget and well when they wish to have the Beast as being something Tall and Slender then there are LIMITS when your putting a MAN in a SUIT and Especially with the Change to a Unguligrade Type of Leg. You Cant beat Props/Puppets and Stop Motion but its Expensive and Time Consuming. So then you see the USE of CGI for Full Body Shots and well i thought it was ok but it looked a bit ROPEY at times on the Covenant.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Regarding the SAFEGUARDS for the Engineers Home-World then YES you would expect better, but then the same can be said about LV-223 and HOW they suffered the Outbreak. But we are talking about Necessity to drive the PLOT, so if David and Dr Shaw where Stopped before they could Enter the Planets Atmosphere say a Barrier is Raised and the Ship Disabled then the Engineers discover that the Ship has NONE of their Kind but Intruders then we would have had a Different Movie and well the ODDS of David and Dr Shaw being around for LONG would be Slender...
Regarding the Technology then i agree to a Point, i would say that Humans are Intelligent some Exceptionally so even in ANCIENT TIMES and so i think if you brought say 100 Humans from say 1000 Years ago to our Present, then i would think a Majority of them could be TAUGHT how to USE our Technology. We have the ability to Pass On and Learn Knowledge which is WHY i guess we Survived because of our ability to Adapt and Evolve in this way.
But as FAR as say going back 1000 Years and leaving a Smart Phone or Tablet behind for some Humans to Discover then YES they would NOT have a Clue what it is. We are a Curious Species and eventually some will PLAY with the Phone and Realize you can Touch the Screen to OPEN UP many Different Things, they could with TRIAL and ERROR get to the Gallery and see Images and Videos and maybe Accidentally Activate the Camera.... but the Concept of APPS for Calls, Messaging the Internet etc would be TOTALLY ALIEN to them.
These things would appear ALIEN to us even 100 Years ago, but i would say if you took a Smart Phone back 50 Years ago then it would NOT be as ALIEN or Hard to Grasp i would say Modern Mankind could USE the Technology we have in 100 Years.
But as FAR as sending a Device from NOW to 100 Years ago and Expecting someone to Reverse Engineer it that would be Difficult because their is a LOT of Components that are NOT invented yet and for someone to even Consider HOW such a Device is MADE and take it apart and Build Another as far as going back to 1000 Years ago then YES it would be Impossible for them.
But i dont think we have to look at David being able to Reverse Engineer it, he seems to MERELY be Using it... and as a Intelligent A.I i think he could Learn how to USE what we have seen in the Prequels. The Technology does-not look like its WAY BEYOND our Comprehension.
However a Point i think you Raised before is VALID in that the Technology we see does-not really FIT with what you would Expect from a Species who are Millions of Years Old... the Technology should be BEYOND our Comprehension.
A lot of things with Movies is a Necessity for the Plot, if Dr Shaw said to David about can he USE one of the Engineer ships.. if his Response was NO-WAY its Impossible for him. Then Dr Shaw would have to Spend her Time in the Complexes or on a Ship just to Breath the Oxygen Generated until someone ELSE would eventually TURN UP at LV-223. She likely Starve to Death by then.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I will agree it was lazy storytelling to assume David could operate ancient Engineer technology. I think it would have been far more entertaining (and realistic) if he attempted to press the right buttons but accidentally unleashed Hell on the Prometheus crew.
We should also consider that the installation on LV-223 had been abandoned for some time. Perhaps the Engineer facilities here were dated and running older, obsolete tech? Clearly there were some bugs ... lol More so this might equate to someone in the 1950s traveling to the future and discovering a military base from the 1970s. Obviously a ridiculous comparison, but for the sake of discussion, my point being perhaps the tech present on LV-223 was not as advanced or the pinnacle of Engineer development at the time?
I dunno, I'm trying to give David the benefit of the doubt hahaha
You are right though, the physics and laws governing the Engineer tech and their abilities exceed any comprehension Humans or their A.I. are likely able to grasp. But, having an advanced A.I. take point when trying to exploit such technology lends a little more believability to the plot than if it had been one of the Human crew.
I too, was left moderately entertained by the CGI in Covenant, truth be told, I enjoyed Prometheus and its special effects more.
I think its Interesting to Point out the Tech Chris.
LV-223 has been a Outpost for 35'000 Years at least we ASSUME (unlikely the Engineers would leave a indication to Cavemen about a Outpost that will be Built in the Future). And so LV-223 could have been there for even LONGER than 35'000 Years.
Regarding Obsolete Tech, i think we can Safely Assume that over time their Technology has had Upgrades and has Evolved, we had Ridley Scott say that maybe the Engineers Technology is MILLIONS of Years Old... this seemed in relation to the Juggernauts. You would ASSUME that the Teardrop Ship is Technology that is BEYOND MILLIONS of Years Old.... However who is to say the Sacrificial Scene had taken place over a Billion Years? It could have been Hundreds of Millions or Hundreds of Thousands i think it just shows that the Engineers would Return Over and Over to UPGRADE/EVOLVE Creation maybe by the same means?
But sometimes you have to take what Ridley Scott says with a Pinch of Salt, because he does seem to get Confused at times, well he say things like when he said the Derelict and Juggernauts Tech are Separated by Hundreds of Years. This makes Little Sense if the Derelict is Older as it would IMPLY that the Juggernauts are either a Few Thousand Years Old... or the Derelict has been on LV-426 for a VERY VERY VERY Long Time before the Juggernaught Tech.
Maybe the Derelict was the Newer Evolved Tech that had been in Service for a Shorter Time before the Outbreak happened and then LV-426, because when you have a NEW MODEL of Car or whatever then you will still USE the Older Model for a while after the New Model has been released.
I think IF we Question to HOW the Technology cant be Millions of Years Old because that would mean there has been NO UPGRADES for Millions of Years. I think we NEED to bare in mind that with some Tools then ONCE they are Basically Perfect for their JOB then they do-not CHANGE. A Fork, a Spoon a Cup have all been around for a LONG TIME and in 50 Years they would still NOT really change as far as any Evolution. The same thing Happens with Nature, be it Fauna or Flora, some Organisms have remained the same for MILLIONS of Years some have Changed Little... but then you have other Species that have had a lot of Evolving over duration of Tens/Hundreds of Thousands of Years
Yeah i know Technology is Different, but my Point is that with a Fork or say a Spade (for digging) then they are Basically the same NOW as 100 Years ago, and more.. and will likely be the same in Hundred Years as they do-not really Need to be Changed for their Purpose.
And so if the Engineers Technology is FIT for its Purpose and Needs NO kind of Evolution/Change then the Technology could remain the same for Millions of Years.
I think when it comes down to HOW it was that David could USE this Tech, well for the sake of the PLOT we have to assume that the Research that David has done has allowed him to READ the Engineers Writing etc (we saw he could SPEAK to a Engineer) and the Doors maybe are Easy to Activate because maybe the Engineers were so NAIVE that they NEVER thought anyone else but their OWN KIND would ever Arrive at their Outposts.
Also Once he activated the Orrery Hologram Play Back he saw the Engineers and Watched HOW they Activated the Navigation System.
I will add that for HOW Advanced the Engineers Tech is, then YES as Blackant has said before, i dont think that Tech looks Millions of Years more Advanced than say the Human Tech from circa 2100-2200 in the Alien Universe, many Thousands of Years then YES but MILLIONS? But as i said before IF the Juggernaught is Basically as Perfect as Needed for its Task then maybe it NEEDS NO kind of Upgrade/Evolution.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Greetings all, just found the site the other day after introducing my 19 year old daughter to Prometheus & AC (and the "Alien" universe in general) and was curious about the travel time/distance discussions. Mind blowing stuff for astrophys postulations (for me at least) but after reading those talks, I branched out and saw this thread and got a little curious.
While I don't have a take one way or the other on the costumes, when it comes to the actual movies, I personally like the prequels better (and OG Aliens, c'mon "man"...Bill Paxton!) than the other OG 3 just because I enjoy "beginning" stories more, but you can't forget your origins so props to the originals (maybe not resurrection so much though imo).
Now we each have our own takes and opinions so I am just adding mine, not discrediting anyone else's and after reading these, I appreciate all the different pov brought forth. So here is my thought, regarding the ability of David using the Engineers tech with it being so advanced (I know, off topic from the primary reason of this discussion), has anyone considered the appearance of the citizens (the non-militarized Engineers if you will) when David literally drops the bomb(s) on them as being an indicator of where they are, or want to be with their tech?
For me, taking their very basic attire, the general appearance of them and their surroundings and the tech usage the Engineers had in both films, their advancement as a species related to their level of technology could maybe have been a case of been there, done that, got the tshirt and now lets learn from our mistakes and maybe in some aspects of their technology, they chose to KISS due to inherent dangers of perhaps unchecked, or inability to check, tech/AI advancement. Basically I am just theorizing that in their history, they could have advanced so far in some ways that through mistakes, perhaps some catastrophic, they learned to keep some things simple (from their pov) and perhaps reigned in their tech/AI a bit.
I just wondered about this due to their citizens general appearance in AC and just maybe, that is how their tech could possibly be manipulated by an advanced human AI that is roughly 80 years or so in our future.
Of course to serve the overall plot of a story some parts of it may need, or just have, a simple explanation, and perhaps this one is that, but if anyone has any opinions on this please share as this is a wonderfully thought provoking discussion.
Really enjoying the site, have a good one all.