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A Former Xenomorph Civilization as an Explanation for the Engineer Agenda

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XenomorphAwakening

Dec-15-2020 12:37 PM

Before I lay out the theory, I should admit that I have always found the idea that the xenomorph is, somehow, a kind of high intelligence, fascinating and appealing. Its very perfection, as Ash described it, reminds me of the line from the novel Moby Dick, about the whale being a mask for some greater reality. That said, I also think the idea provides the best and most logical explanation for Engineer actions and the origins of the Black Goo. What follows is a hypothetical sequence of events based on this premise. 

First, long before the Engineers, the greatest civilization in the history of the known universe developed. The closest we can come to the anatomy of these beings is the mural on the wall in Prometheus, for reasons which will be explained shortly. Then, something happened to them. Maybe they destroyed themselves in a civil war, maybe they were hit by a quasar, or perhaps they moved to another dimension. Whatever the cause, their home planet was left abandoned, but some traces of their technology and knowledge remained, perhaps in their version of doomsday vaults. 

Long after, Engineer society came into being, developed intelligence and eventually the ability for interstellar travel. They have a focus on biotechnology as seen in Prometheus. They create various subspecies, such as humans on Earth and the people who lived on Planet 4, for use in their research. Then they run across the former xenomorph homeworld. They see that the civilization which used to live there was at its height far more advanced than they are and they set out to try to make use of what they find. However, the combination of how far ahead what they find is and/or how damaged it is by the events which occurred there mean they either make no progress, or what progress they make is frustratingly slow. 

Being skilled in genetic engineering, they decide to take a different approach and try to clone a xenomorph, which they will then have assist them in their efforts to unravel what they have discovered. The Black Goo is the best the Engineer biologists have come up with as as a copy of the xenomorph genetic code, and the Prometheus mural is a diagram of what they think the beings looked like. However, as could readily be imagined since they are dealing with something that is basically beyond them (this also explains why the Black Goo got out of control on at least two separate occasions), something goes wrong and instead of the supreme intelligence of the original species they end up with the super-predator we are familiar with. 

At this point, the researchers on LV-223 realize they need a lot more hosts and this is why they were going to leave for Earth. I don't believe it had anything in particular to do with being disappointed in humans or even that they intended to dump the Black Goo on Earth indiscriminately. Rather, they were going to abduct large numbers of people to use for the prolonged research effort it would take to successfully clone a xenomorph. 

16 Responses to A Former Xenomorph Civilization as an Explanation for the Engineer Agenda

BigDave

Dec-19-2020 6:38 AM

Shame this Topic has not come up....as...

A Former Xenomorph Civilization as an Explanation for the Engineer Agenda

A Interesting thing to Ponder and Explore.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Kongzilla

Dec-19-2020 1:58 PM

Yes, that's really good stuff.

I have almost the same theory, but with a slight difference.

Humanity originated on Earth in a natural way. Then the ancient aliens, anticipating their extinction, captured several people and modified them, thereby creating the Engineers. Perhaps in order for the Engineers to revive the aliens in the future. Or simply to make the Engineers their heirs.

In the ampule room Charlie Holloway said: "it's just a grave". A grave for alien race.

Then, recalling Ridley Scott's early pre-Promethean comments about the Space Jockey's civil war. SJ=Engieers now, so there is a theory of war between factions of Engineers.

One faction used the legacy of the Aliens to create the new worlds. The are Space Gardeners.

Another faction used the legacy of aliens for their own development. They were arrogant and selfish, and did not tolerate competition (source: early leaks for Prometheus). They are Space Jockeys. They defiled the grave of the aliens, setting their own head statue there, thereby shading the aliens into the background. It is possible that their attitude towards aliens was the same as David's towards humans and Engineers. They did not respect strangers and did not see them as gods, but looked at them as material for experiments:

1) They have perfected themselves (The Last Engineer on LV-223 looks like alien - biomechanoid).

2) They turned the legacy of aliens into bioweapon and ultimately exterminated (?*) the first faction - the Space Gardeners.

3) They also decided to destroy "competitors", including primitive earthlings.

During the last sabotage on LV-223, the Space Jockeys were unable to attack Earth, and their only ship to take off crashed on LV-426.

*There are probably isolated communities of Space Gardeners somewhere else, but they hide.

 

About the inhabitants of the Planet 4.

Remember the faces of their leaders, scientists and sages, carved into the rock and inside the main building? They look like the head in the ampoule room on LV-223. Plus ship design: docking ship above the city square and U-shaped ships below the surface.

Think of the Gardeners' flying saucer from Prometheus. Separately, this means little, but together it shows that the inhabitants of Planet 4 are also part of the aggressive Space Jockey faction. They are not kind beings. Perhaps they joined the Space Jockeys, or perhaps they were their founders!

I cannot find confirmation of the rumor that they are the original Engineers. But if so, then it is not necessarily literal. The "original" means the founders, the head of the faction of Space Jockey.

From this point of view, David stripped their faction of the leadership and saved the galaxy.

 

 

 

BigDave

Dec-21-2020 4:26 AM

Welcome aboard XenomorphAwakening

I think that YES the Initial Intention for the Xenomorph was something that was Different to how it Evolved too.  With ALIEN we had Ridley Scott at one point trying to OFFER a Ending where Ripley is Dead, but the Xenomorph would MIMIC her Voice to LURE the Next Batch of Victims in.  I think that even though this idea was DROPPED, the DC Versions showed a Agenda/Plan for the Xenomorph rather than just being a Killing Machine.

The Xenomorphs Roots was from the Starbeast Idea by Dan'Obannon and at its Inception then the Spores (that became the Eggs) where PART of the Life-cycle of a Civilized Alien Species, who Constructed Pyramids to USE for their Birthing Rituals which required a Sacrificial Host.   There was NO SIGNS of this Species or Civilization apart from this ANCIENT PYRAMID all that remained was their Spore/Egg Stage that was WAITING for a Host so to speak.

At this Stage of Development the Space Jockey was NOT what we had in ALIEN we had a Separate Ship that was Derelict that had NO CONNECTION to the Starbeast (Xenomorph) they was merely a ALIEN Species who had Stumbled on this World and gone to Investigate the Pyramid and became Infected....

But things Changed during the Process before we had ALIEN which included Walter Hill and David Giler coming in and Changing the Dan O'bannon and Ronald Shusett so that the Pyramid became a Cylinder and the Xenomorph to be a Engineered Weapon Created by Mankind.

Lucky this was Changed... and we then had HR Giger come in to Re-Design the Space Jockey, Ship, Cargo Hold and our Xenomorph  there was a LOT of Mystery regarding the Space Jockey and Connection with the Xenomorph that had been IGNORED until the Prequels.

With the Indication in the Mind of Ridley Scott even prior to the Prequels that we are dealing with a BIO-WEAPON thats likely Engineered/Created.....

But this KIND of idea does-not SIT-WELL with some Fans, who view the Xenomorph as its OWN Species that are Ancient, but then when we look at ALIEN what we see is a Alien Species that adapt the same kind of Life/Survival as HIVE Species on Earth like Bees, Wasps, Ants and Termites... but of course they are MORE Intelligent than Bugs ;)

I think your THEORY is something that some Fans would like to see, it kind of GETS BACK to what the Starbeast was...

I think some Interpret the MURAL as a GOD like being the Engineers Worship (i think they are MISTAKEN but thats for another Time).

"something goes wrong and instead of the supreme intelligence of the original species they end up with the super-predator we are familiar with"

Certainly something along the Lines could work, i have said before that will UPSET some, that maybe the Xenomorph has RAN its Course..... but this does-not mean we can look at its Ancestry and come Across something we can DRAW a Connection to, something Similar but Different and something that is Intelligent, predates the Engineers maybe?   Something maybe the Engineers gained Knowledge and Technology Off or had Stolen/Reverse Engineered from?

And so i think that YES we could introduce a Species that are Aesthetically similar to the Xenomorph to where the Xenomorph was a attempt to Re-Engineer Traits from this STARBEAST if you would.... YES this could work.

I have always said there is a WAY you could GO back to have something that Predates the Xenomorph that is a Reflection of the Original Starbeast and also UPLIFT the Xenomorph via this.

"I don't believe it had anything in particular to do with being disappointed in humans or even that they intended to dump the Black Goo on Earth indiscriminately"

Certainly...... remember sometimes to CREATE then One must First DESTROY.  So i have always Wondered if the Engineers on LV-223 had decided they wanted to EVOLVE other Species using the Xeno-Related Strains in the Black Goo as maybe they FELT that this Species DNA was Perfection instead of their Humanoid DNA... this PLOT works Best if say those Engineers are more in Common with David than those Planet 4 Engineers.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Dec-21-2020 4:56 AM

"Humanity originated on Earth in a natural way. Then the ancient aliens, anticipating their extinction, captured several people and modified them, thereby creating the Engineers."

Dont be DAFT!!! Joke ;)  you know what this would be a CURVE-BALL.... when i had a Source who had information on Prometheus 2 Circa Autumn 2014 they had Claimed that the Engineers are NOT the Gods, they Claimed that Mankind is like the 4th/5th Generation of our Kind... they also Claimed that Mankind had a BIGGER role in the Xenomorph Creation and also regarding the Human/Engineer Connection there would be a CURVE-BALL

And so "WE CREATED THEM" would be a Big Curve-ball.

I think when we look at our Engineers in Prometheus and the Alien Covenant you did get the Impression (well i do) that those beings are Genetically Engineered versions of the more Human looking inhabitants on Planet 4, they could be a Sub-Created Engineered Superior Species that are Created for Specific Reasons....  like how David is to us or the Replicants... this could lead to Rebellion or Jealously by these LV-223 Engineers and Motivate them to Commit the Horrors they had done.  Ridley Scott had referred to them as Fallen Angels... the Fallen Angels had Rebelled against their Creator and their own Kind, they had been Cast Out, Mutated and become a Species that HATE their Brothers and Gods more Favored Children Mankind.

The above may NOT connect to the OT... but you can take Influence from it.... by having the Origins of the Engineers being a Race that was Enslaved, Created or came to some Agreement with the Starbeast, but they then REBELLED and then STOLE the Starbeast Technology.

Regarding the SPACE GARDENERS... i think if we look at Prometheus it kind of gets away from the OT, but it seems that what we had was Space Gardeners as the MAIN ROLE of the Engineers... but something CHANGED for Certain, something that made some of their Kind Experiment with stuff that Connects to the Xenomorph and LV-223...   ALIEN ENGINEERS held a lot of Clues to this... and to me it seems a SIMILAR kind of PLOT to Starbeast only they had Sucsess.

In other Words some of the Engineers encountered a Ancestor to the Xenomorph and became Fascinated by it, saw Potential with it and Experimented on it... where the Xenomorph was ONE of the Outcomes.

There is a BIG PLOT that could be Covered, that is kind of like the OT but also Connect to LV-223, its something i mentioned before....  which you have to look at the Original Inception of the Engineers to start to PAINT a Picture they was a Race who Engineered themselves to LOOSE the Ability to Procreate, they had been Attempting to Transcend to a Higher Pane of Existence... seemed this maybe Failed and they Got Concerned that Mankind could Grow to Replace them...

So then you ASK... ok WHY the Xenomorph?  I think that Alien Resurrection has the Answer... RIPLEY 8... she has Genetic Memory... In effect Ripley has been Reserected and so something with the Xenomorph has done this... IF the Engineers encountered some Ancient Relation, where they saw this BEAST as the KEY to REINCARNATION that would give GOOD Reason for them to want to be Experimenting with them.

When we go UP to a Higher Level... the Starbeast was a Intelligent Species, but they NEED a Host to Procreate.. but a Curve-ball could be that the Starbeast when they come to the END of their Life-Cycle... they will Egg-Morph a Host to PASS ON their Genetic Memory this will Revert back to a SPORE/EGG where this Species can then REINCARNATE themselves...   You Connect a ANCIENT SPECIES to then the Agenda to WHY would the Engineers be interested... to then we see with Ripley 8 it shows the Potential.... the Xeno-Strain can Act as a FORM of Reincarnation/Immortality.

Sorry if thats Getting to be OFF TOPIC... but i think its something that can Expand/Uplift the Original Topic as YES i think it would be GREAT to Explore some Related Ancient Species to the Xenomorph... something that also touch on what HR Giger had on his Mind and become something a bit LOVECRAFTIAN.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Dec-21-2020 5:07 AM

"I cannot find confirmation of the rumor that they are the original Engineers"

I recall that Ridley Scott (but i cant seem to FIND where or HOW i recalled it) he had claimed those Engineers on Planet 4 are the Original Engineers.   He has also said the Engineers are NOT a Species but a Civilization.

He has also said before that WHY can we assume the Engineers can-not have Different Races/Differences like we Humans can.  So i think there was a LOT we could have Expanded on with the Engineers that we are UNLIKELY to really see NOW as FAR as the Connections and Ancient Agenda.    I think RS does leave Clues... its you can MISS them... but he is so Vague with them so its always OPEN for Interpretation... he can also Change his Mind lol  If you read between the Lines then even comments regarding WHAT it is that David does Next would give some Insight.... i think regarding the LV-223 Engineers i think they are similar to David and so his Story is maybe a Retelling of those LV-223 Engineers and WHY they did what they did.

But in Context to the OT... then YES i think if we are looking at Ancient History we have to ask about the Engineers Origins.... and also i think that YES you can have another Species that are Related to the Xenomorph Aesthetic be Introduced in a WAY that Offers more than the Xenomorphs where Eventually Portrayed as.

This MURAL has ALWAYS really Interested me

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Dec-22-2020 1:23 PM

"First, long before the Engineers, the greatest civilization in the history of the known universe developed. The closest we can come to the anatomy of these beings is the mural on the wall in Prometheus"

I think that if i am to go to the Original Topic, which i ASSUME is about Exploring the Possibility that the Xenomorph (or something that has its Ancestral Roots) had ONCE (maybe still out there) were a Technological Advanced Alien Species.

Then YES we could introduce that, i think IF we do look at the Xenomorph then it has NOT been Portrayed as anything like that, but then thats what the Majority of the Medium seems to Indicate.

While the Franchise seems to SHOW us a Ravid Killing Machine.... with ALIENS it did introduce us to the HIVE MENTALITY... our Xenomorphs seemed to just EXIST to Procreate... like say TERMITES.

HOWEVER... we Clearly see they are Intelligent to some Degree.   And we have to BARE in mind that with Hadleys Hope what essentially Happened was the Jordans had came into Contact with the Unborn Stage of this Species if you would.

Therefor if we say took some Human Babies and you Raised them Confined to CELLS where they have NO Interaction apart from being FED etc... Until they are 3-4 Years Old then you Stick them in a Enclosure Together with NO Contact apart from FEEDING...   these Infants are NOT going to become Adults that are Civilized and WILL  be NOTHING more than CAVE-MEN!

The HIVE on Hadleys Hope was Weeks Old.. so who is to say WHAT LEVEL of Advancement the Xenomorph could Achieve in 5, 10, 25 Years etc......  they have shown to have a Degree of Intelligence, they have Hands that could be as Dexterous as Humans and so i GUESS we cant RULE-OUT that GIVEN TIME they would NOT advance BEYOND what we saw in ALIENS.

I would HOWEVER... think that Introducing something NEW as the Species in Question would be better, the STARBEAST and we have the LV-223 Experiments that the Xenomorph are a Result of, as ALL being something that was Engineered from the DNA/TRAITS of the so called Starbeast if you would.  It would introduce a NEW LAYER where we can Incorporate the Original Idea and look at some of HR Gigers to give us something more Lovecraft meets Giger.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Dec-25-2020 3:47 AM

@BigDave, Giger’s mural is certainly fascinating and magnificent, but it would have given too much of the plot away had it actually been used in the production of Alien. Having said this, imagine an alternate working where Mother decrypts the Derelict’s beacon... Instead of it being blandly reported as being a warning, she decrypts this image from the message and hides it from the crew. Ripley then teases the graphic out of Mother before learning of Special Order 937. As Ripley had not actually seen the Alien at that time, it would have doubled down on her fear; would make for a great scene in my opinion.

For those who don’t know, the painting was largely inspired by Nut, the Egyptian Sky Goddess. Do a Google image search and you’ll see what I mean.

BigDave

Dec-27-2020 4:44 AM

@Hox

Indeed ;)  for the Most Part we see Nut being associated with Protecting the Dead, Ensuring a Safe Transition to the AFTER-LIFE.

Also the Derelict looks like some of the Egyptian Funeral Barges 

So we have a Influence Aesthetically but is there more to it than that?   If so then HR Giger maybe had some idea that the SHIPS were in someway a VESSEL to allow for some Species to Attain a After-Life

Which when you look at ALIEN DC and well go back to the STARBEAST idea then this is kind of what we see, the EGG MORPH is a Rebirth!

This is something i have brought up a bit in the Past and also this Year.   With the STARBEAST Plot there are NO Adults remaining NOT on the World that had the Temple of the Young/Egg/Spores....  if the Starbeast are a Species that do DIE... but at the END of their Life-Cycle they can EGG-MORPH a Host... to allow for RESURRECTION.

Then the EGGS being Carried on the Derelict and the unused MURAL by HR Giger would Certainly Connect to some of the Death Mythos of Ancient Egypt etc.

Which is WHY i have mentioned before that Alien Resurrection could be a KEY to a Expanded Alien Mythology/History.   You see with RIPLEY 8 we have in essence our Ellen Ripley being Resurrected with some of her Memories.. this is due to the XENOMORPH in some way.

So if the Starbeast can Egg-Morph a Host and this Egg can HOLD the Genetic Memory of the Starbeast then THIS would indeed give the Species Resurrection and a AFTER-LIFE/IMMORTALITY of Sorts..

For a Race like the Engineers and indeed Mankind then HOW/WHY this Happens (Starbeast Resurrection) would be the HOLY GRAIL to the Engineers/Mankind a Possible Solution to CHEAT DEATH.

And so in Context to the OT... then YES i think you can Incorporate this to EXPAND the Franchise/Plot by having a Primordial Alien Race that are connected to the Xenomorph, a Race who are Ancient and Advanced.

A Race where the Technology of the Derelict and Engineers Advancement had came from... maybe the Engineers were ONCE Enslaved or Engineered  by this Species for a Function... but they eventually Rebelled and Overthrown their Masters and then STOLE their Technology?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Dec-27-2020 3:00 PM

Absolutely, BigDave. No matter what happens with Disney at the helm, the back story of the Engineers and their history will always be there to be pondered. Dr Shaw asked the question herself: "Who created them [the Engineers]?"

To my mind, a few scenes in Prometheus give a very clear indication that the Engineers are a religious sort who revere their origins. The drinking of the sacrificial goo in a religious ceremony; the monk-like attendants; the "font" and sculpted mural in the Head Room featuring a very xeno-like form. These are the kinds of thing you see in a church. But rather than kneeling to the power of Christ, the Engineers look up to the form of the Xenomorph. You wouldn't praise something you created yourself. Ergo, the xeno, or the technology that allows it to exist, is something that pre-dates the Engineers.

So, why not? A creature and/or race of beings much older than the Engineers. Perhaps billions of years old from a time when stars with heavy elements began to seed the cosmos with the building blocks of life.

What if that race still existed somewhere, perhaps in another galaxy? All manner of havoc could be being wreaked.

Nathan Adler

Dec-29-2020 9:44 PM

@BigDave: I'm interested to know why the MURAL as a GOD-like being the Engineers Worship doesn’t sit quite right for you (it doesn't for me either)?

BigDave

Dec-30-2020 8:21 AM

@Nathan

I was going to chat about that in Response to what Hox had put... so here it goes.

I assume when you both TALK about the Mural then you mean this one?

This Mural itself is a LITTLE on the Ambiguous Side but some Fans can Conclude its a GOD because of the Christ like Pose.

Now when we look at WHY it is that Christ is depicted often in the Cruciform Pose and Worshiped as such it is NOT really in Reflection to him being GOD... but it is to Acknowledge that he SACRIFICED his LIFE for the Immortality of Mankind (so we are allowed a After-Life after Death for his Worshipers).

There is some Significance of the ALTAR and Originally it had the Sacrificial Bowl and NOT a Green Crystal (This was added Post Shooting).   So i look at this MURAL at a Sacrifice.... for some GREATER Course or something they WISHED to Achieve or Obtain.....  Therefor i look at it as being either...

1) The Engineers desire this Mural, and they Self-Sacrifice themselves to become or Obtain the LIFE-FORM that is Depicted in the Mural.

2) The Engineers see a Perfection in this LIFE-FORM and as Genetic Engineers they Sacrifice this Organism to Obtain its DNA/Traits to Further Perfect themselves or their Creations.

When i Consider that the Altar had the Sacrificial Bowl, and we look at what this Represented/Provided.  Then if we look at ALIEN: ENGINEERS to decode what we see.  With Alien Engineers the Sacrificial Goo was Scarabs that had Consumed a Engineer and THUS they Stored the Engineers DNA which we then see ONE of these Scarabs Bite a Primitive Woman... this is 12'000 Years ago.  This Primative Woman then goes through some Changes her DNA is being Changes..

The SET UP seems to imply that the Passing of the Engineers DNA onto this Primitive is what led to a EVOLUTION and this is HOW we got to Modern Mankind.

We Latter see the Scarabs in URNS that Fifield would knock over and ONE of these then BITES him.... only he is Evolved/Mutated to some HYBRID that has Xenomorph Traits and Acid Blood...  we can IMPLY here that maybe something RELATED to the Xenomorph was Sacrificed by the Scarabs so they can CONSUME its (Xeno-Related Organism) DNA to then PASS ON to anything those Scarabs that are Stored in the Urns came into Contact with.

So taking that on Board and looking at the Original Altar in Context to the Mural then i would assume the Engineers had Encountered something that they then TRIED to obtain and UTILIZE its DNA/Traits for some Purpose.

When we look at the Pitch that Jon Spaights had made for the Prequel, he had Envisioned the Engineers as a Ancient Humanoid Species of Creators who had Created/Evolved our Species.  These Engineers had Genetically Evolved themselves to a Point they LOST the Ability to Procreate but they also had Engineered themselves to LIVE for Many Thousands of Years.

They were however NOT really Immortal, the Engineers had been trying to Obtain a Higher Level of Existence beyond the Constraints of the Mortal Body....  they had been ATTEMPTING to Transcend themselves to beings of Energy who can Transcend between the Multiverse.

So it seemed their Agenda was the same as Peter Weylands, looking for WAYS to Extend their Life, then to go Further and Find some kind of Immortality.

In Context to all of this we may have a Solution/Answer, if there was a ANCIENT ORGANISM who had a Life-Cycle where the END would lead to RESURRECTION (via a Genetic Transfer of their Soul/Memories to the Egg Morph).  If something like this Existed then this would give a VERY GOOD reason for the Engineers Experiments... to OBTAIN this Secret/Ability  could GRANT them a Pseudo Resurrection/Immortality.

We have Evidence of this with RIPLEY 8 that the Xeno-DNA can lead to a Pseudo Resurrection

Such a PLOT/IDEA would Uplift the Franchise because we would see that Ultimately with RIPLEY and the Experiments on her DNA then SHE had Achieved maybe what the Engineers had Attempted and Failed...

The other Irony for the Engineers and Weyland is that David was teased that he has NO SOUL.... when in Actual Fact he could be the ONLY being who has a SOUL (his Memories etc can be Transferred to another Body).

Back to the MURAL what we had However is some of those working on the Mural/Project had said that it Represents the Deacon, but its left Ambiguous to HOW/WHY.

If you look at the Easter Eggs (Face Hugers)also the Fresco  and the Engineers being Genetic Scientists and Creators and if we look at say what David was doing on Planet 4 then we could maybe Conclude the Engineers had been Experimenting to Create something and when they achieved the DEACON they saw its Perfection and they WISHED to use its DNA to Evolve Life instead of Engineer DNA

"sometimes to create, one must first destroy"

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Dec-30-2020 8:47 AM

The Last Post about the MURAL is kind of Off-Topic... but it can relate to the OT...

As the Theory that  XenomorphAwakening is implying is that maybe there is some ANCIENT Organism that was a Civilization that Predates the Eggs on the Derelict and LV-223 etc.   And i think that YES you could apply that, in which case the Post i made prior could APPLY to the Engineers wishing to USE/EXPERIMENT or Re-Create the said Ancient Races DNA... for maybe the Purpose i proposed?

"Who created them [the Engineers]?"

I forgot to mention Hox that a Mural does-not always have to Worship Gods, many Ancient Cultures would leave Murals, Paintings and Statues etc... to also give Appreciation and worship to other Animals/Beings that HOLD a Great Importance to those who Create the Murals etc.

And so if the MURAL is a Indication of Worship for something that could BENEFIT them, to make them more GODLIKE or a Attempt at Resurrection that would also be a Good Reason for the Mural.  But then the Engineers like to SHOW-OFF what they Create by having Murals and Statues so it could be them SIMPLY showing their Achievements.

This HOWEVER... does not rule out the Mural being Expanded on to indeed showcase some kind of RACE that was Once the Gods of the Engineers, be that their Creators or merely their Enslavers

The Organism in the MURAL looks more like this Concept from Prometheus. (well prior to Prometheus)

I think maybe with the OT you could introduce something that is NOT quite our Xenomorph, as it appears the Prequels/Ridley Scott idea is the Xenomorph is merely a Engineered Bio-Weapon.

James Cameron saw them as a Ancient Natural Species but then IF we got to see the ALIEN HOME-WORLD that Cameron had Envisioned its a case of WOULD they had been Portrayed as in ALIENS or shown they came from some kind of Civilization etc?

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Nathan Adler

Dec-30-2020 9:57 PM

@BigDave: If the Engineers sacrifice themselves to obtain the life-form depicted in the mural, why are they running from it in the looped playback on LV-223, or for that matter the surviving pilot Engineer resisting it at the end of Prometheus?  Also, if their agenda was equivalent to Peter Weyland's, why be so incensed at him? Also, if their agenda is to sacrifice their DNA so they can achieve a form of immortality through it resurrecting itself, this suggests to me they are definitely equivalent to the "dark angels" of the book of Enoch, creating a twisted version of Biblical sacrifice and resurrection, subverting/ defiling the resurrection of Jesus. The angels of the book of Enoch were jealous of God creating humanity, and his plan to use as to incarnate through, so were they attempting to create their own dark method of resurrection to beat him by inseminating their own DNA into his creation and prevent him being able to reincarnate and create their own existential Lovecraftian messiah? This is similar to Anne Rice's twist that vampirism was a satanic subversion of Christ’s Communion, drink from me and you shall live forever.

jdvyne

Feb-08-2021 12:05 PM

In my humble opinion RS has ruined his revival-attempts of the Alien Universe with Alien: Covenant. It was just to confusing, it added more questions while answering no questions from Prometheus and it was just implausible (the Covenant Crew lands on an exoplanet, finds a forsaken city filled with humanoid corpses, enters some kind of cathedral with human-looking stone heads AND NOBODY ASKS WTF IS GOING ON HERE AND WHY THERE SEEMS TO BE A (now extinct) THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD HUMAN CIVILIZATION ON THIS PLANET). My suspension of disbelieve just couldn't handle it...

 

After Prometheus (before AC ruined it) I was thinking about similar things like you. You have the Engineers: Maybe you hint about something/someone that has created them but you need not answer who, how and why; maybe keep it a secret or maybe just say, that the Engineers evolved naturally. BUT YOU NEED TO KEEP THE ALIEN A MYSTERY, A LOVECRAFTIAN THING FROM NOWHERE AND NOWHEN - THE PERSONIFIED COSMIC HORROR. The perfect story would have been something like this (there are two versions/beginnings which lead to the same point; I like both of them so I will present both):

Version/Beginning A) The Engineers' civilization awakens. They have found clues on their homeworld that they were created by something/someone now gone: the Progenitors. They revear these unknown beings, found a religion upon this insight and become very religious. They develop FTL spacetravel. They set out to find their creators but even after thousands of years they cannot find them. They seem to have vanished without a trace. So they then start to honor them by doing alike: Flying through the universe, terraforming planets and seeding them with life, teaching their creations the Engineers' ways, hoping that they fulfill the Progenitors will and that they would approve of the Engineers deeds.

Version/Beginning B) The Engineers have evolved naturally. They fly through the univers for thousands of years, searching for life but never finding any trace of life. They conclude that they're the only life in the universe and that their emergance is nothing short of a miracle - maybe "god's will". They think that life itself is what's to be revered (and because they are the only living beings in the universe, they mean themselfs are to be reveared). So they set out on their religious mission to seed the universe with life.

Choose which beginning you like most, now they come to the same point: The Enginners are seeding the universe for generation after generation. But then, on that one fateful day, for the first time in their tens of thousands of years ongoing religious mission, they find a planet with life on it! And not only that: These lifeforms obviously are superiour even to the Engineers themselfs!!! They find the (original version of the) Xenomorph. You may hint now at the fact that they also have been created or you leave that up for debate. Anyways, the Engineers, whom revear life itself, realize that they have made a mistake. They have seeded thousands of worlds with life in their own image but now they find this superior species. Actually THESE BEINGS would have deserved to be spread throughout the universe, not the Engineer's homeworld's flora and fauna.

So the Engineers conclude that they would now have to do the obvious thing: They would have to do justice to this lifeform by speading it too throughout the universe. So the Engineers take these specimens to one their seeded planets after another, setting them out there, letting the two faunas compete for natual selection would undoubtfully show which lifeform would prevail. And sure enough, on every single one of these planets the Xenomorph fauna takes over.

So the engineers now conclude that they would have to do the final step: Once they would have been done, once they would have infected the last one of their seeded planets, they themselfs would no longer have the right to rule over this species for it is superior to the Engineers. They would have to merge with the Xenomorphs; include Xenomorph DNA into their own DNA - the next step of evolution: a great convergence.

So while they are infecting one planet after the other, they start to incoprorate Xenomorph DNA into their own DNA - maybe these are the Engineers we see on LV 223. And sure enough maybe there forms a faction amont the Engineers that doesn't want to take part in this convergence - maybe these are the Planet 4 Engineers for their whole appearance and culture seems to have no biomechanical elements at all. Maybe they are the ones who sabotaged the installation on LV 223. Maybe they are the ones who created life on earth, keeping it a secret from the convergence faction. Maybe ca. 2000 years ago the convergence faction finds out about earth. This would be an explanation for the fact that despite the Engineers on LV 223 planning to head towards earth 2000 years ago, earth was visited by Engineers afterwards (in Prometheus you can see that in 620 CE the Mayans were visited). So there HAVE TO BE at least two factions: one benevolent and one hostile towards mankind - although the latter one would not be actually hostile in my story but rather they would be convinced that humanity too WOULD HAVE TO take part in the great convergence. So they would argue that they would do mankind a favor by uplifting it to the next step in evolution; they, in a perverse way, are also "benevolent" towards mankind.

 

I know that this story doesn't fit everything we've seen in Prometheus and AC but like I said I think this should have been the path RS should have chosen. Making David the creator of the Xenomorph is a catastrophy for it robs the Xenomorph of its strangeness AND ALIENNESS.

Thanks for reading :)

BigDave

Feb-23-2021 6:22 AM

@Nathan

I think its a Good Point the Engineers did seem to be RUNNING from something, we Certainly see they was ATTEMPTING to get to the Big Head Room for some Reason, and some of the Engineer were looking over their Shoulders.  With the Sound that we heard we could ASSUME this was something like the Deacon.

I think we have to look at what the Black Goo was seen doing, which would be that it seemed to MUTATE LIFE to take on some Xenomorph/Deacon Traits... could they had been Running from something like a Engineer Fifield?  Could one of the Docked Ships had some Organism on board?

The other thing we see Happen is the Goo BREAKS down a Infected Person into Essentially Soup/Particles.  We see the Engineer BODY was HOLLOW.. some others Appeared as so too...  The HEAD however was Preserved and MAYBE something in the Big Head Room has a WAY of HALTING the Pathogen....

We also CANT be 100% sure of TWO things..

1) That a Deacon requires infected Sperm or simply the Pathogenic Worms to Infect a Female Egg Cell or just Needs the Womb to Gestate. Or if the Pathogenic Worms can Gestate in a Engineer and Produce a Slightly Different Deacon than Dr Shaws Trilobite... maybe the Infection  just Creates a Deacon-like Beast in the Engineers like how the Neomorph Spores behaved.

2) The Hammerpedes have NOT been encountered before and have some way to Procreate in a Host, this would GIVE a Good Reason for WHY it attacked Milburn in such a WAY and could be  GOOD REASON for WHY we have Chest Busted Engineer Cryo-Pods.

The Engineer could have tried to Resist for a Number of Reasons, such as ONLY a Few are Selected to Sacrifice to Create the Horrors on LV-223, or he could have been ONE who had Sabotaged LV-223 but the easiest way to look at it is that he HAD to Fight Off the Trilobite so that he could Continue with his Plan to GO TO EARTH after he gets his hands on Dr Shaw First.

"dark angels" of the book of Enoch, creating a twisted version of Biblical sacrifice and resurrection"

Something like what you Put in that Paragraph could WORK as for what is going on ;)

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Feb-23-2021 6:28 AM

"AND NOBODY ASKS WTF IS GOING ON HERE AND WHY THERE SEEMS TO BE A (now extinct) THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD HUMAN CIVILIZATION ON THIS PLANET)"

Its a Good Point, it is STRANGE that No-One Questioned this Especially ORAM... However i think a BIG Problem with AC was they was trying to FIT so much in a 2 Hour Movie and so a LOT of stuff could NOT have been Explained or Fitted in.   The Movie Needed another 40 min to Explain some Parts.. and give more Coverage to Certain things... and so YES a lot had to be Sacrificed.

As far as Version/Beginning A) or B) i think that BOTH are Valid and Interesting ways to have EXPANDED on the Franchise/Agenda and History of the Engineers ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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