Alien Movie Universe

LOST ON PARADISE by Alan Dean Foster
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MemberPraetorianJan-17-2020 9:40 AM

LOST ON PARADISE by Alan Dean Foster

Alan Dean Foster has not only written most of the novelizations for the Alien films but he has also written for many other universes and can crush a person's face with his powerlifting hands.  He holds records. 

One very interesting thing found in his "Updates" page on is a reference to an unfinished novel.  

This update below is what I find interesting after the countless references to Paradise Lost in the Alien universe, specifically in the prequels, and now Alan Dean Foster is writing LOST ON PARADISE.


"1 October 2019
I'm 16,000 words into a new novel, LOST ON PARADISE. Taking this one a bit slower than usual because...well, explaining it would give something of the book away, and I never want to do that."


Is this novel about David on Planet 4?

David mentions Crusoe on his island to the Covenant Crew in an apparent reference to being stranded on an island paradise.  The below image (enhanced) shows what appears to be David's studies logged before the Covenant showed up above Planet 4.

Could this new novel from Foster cover the time in-between the events of Prometheus and Alien: Covenant?



Additional Updates Worth Mentioning

"1 January 2017
I only met Carrie Fisher once. It was at the Star Wars Celebration in Anaheim, CA, in 2014. Del Rey had asked if I could attend to promote the reveal that I was going to be doing the novelization of THE FORCE AWAKENS. I was only able to attend for a day and a half and didn't expect to have time to do anything except fulfill my indicated responsibilities, but it turned out I was able to chat briefly with Mark Hamill again (regular guy) and meet a few other folks, including the gentlemanly Billy Dee Williams. My schedule was pretty full and didn't really coincide with anyone else's. I was determined, however, to try and at least say hi to Fisher, whom I had never met before.

I managed to ease into the very busy signing area where I politely introduced myself and asked if she would mind signing my copy of the original SW novelization.

As she was obliging, I tried to make small talk. "You know," I told her, "I've always thought of you as a writer who happened to act rather than an actress who happened to write". I'd read and thoroughly enjoyed her books POSTCARDS FROM THE EDGE and SURRENDER THE PINK.

She lit up immediately, all but jumped out of her chair, and planted me with one seriously emphatic kiss. Expecting maybe a quick "thank you" or "that's sweet of you to say so", I was more than a little taken aback ...especially since this occurred in front of a couple of hundred waiting fans, security personel, etc. And that's how I'll remember Carrie Fisher. Writer, actress, firecracker.

The novelization of ALIEN:COVENANT has been turned in and approved. I am working with Titan Publishing and Fox on what will be an original prequel to the film story."

I love this guy.  

Paradise Lost, LOST ON PARADISE....maybe it could be an Alien novel.
33 Replies


MemberDeaconJan-17-2020 10:53 AM

This is something i had been talking about for Quite some Time, since the release of his Alien Covenant Origins Novel.

I had mentioned that there was a TALE to be TOLD regarding Dr Shaw and David as far as Certainly what Happened from Once we saw Dr Shaw tucked into Cryo-sleep until the Very Last Breath she had taken on Planet 4.

We also have lots of Clues to Suggest that David maybe discovered some Engineer Survivors and he had Experimented on them, and then we have the WHOLE period of Time he had Conducted Study and Experiments on Planet 4's Surviving Flora and Fauna.

So there is SCOPE for a Story, a Disturbing and Sad Story and one that would UNLOCK the Psyche of David.

I have brought this up a Number of Times over the last 2 Years, i had a series of Ideas on HOW to do such a Book, and discussed some Possibilities over the Years to Ponder some of the Stuff that David had been up to.

But Alas although i kept saying to myself i will Attempt to Write a Fan Fiction on this, i never got around to it.. But the past Few Days i had been looking at my Ideas and was about to Begin working on a Story which hopefully by ALIEN DAY i could present a Rough Draft on HERE.

I even knocked up a COVER for this Novel Idea yesterday ;)

I discussed the past few Days on here about that the UNTOLD story of Davids time on Planet 4 before the events of Alien Covenant did WARRANT a Novel in my Opinion.

What a Coincidence this News from ADF is... does this mean he is working on Similar?

Considering his Work on the ALIEN Franchise, and how there was a Untold Story about the Period on Planet 4 from 2094-2104 and the Title: is LOST ON PARADISE.

Considering that Earlier Drafts of Alien Covenant was ALIEN: PARADISE LOST  then i think we can Assume that his NEW Novel will indeed be about such Events.

Maybe makes my EFFORT a bit MOOT now ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberDeaconJan-17-2020 11:04 AM

I will add a bit of a Concern though!

ADF does seem a Massive ALIENS Fan... and it appears he is NOT pleased with the Indication that David is the Creator of the Xenomorph... which i think we can mostly agree was a Mistake!

His work on Alien Covenant Novels he seemed to Indicate that David had discovered a Xenomorph Egg on Planet 4, and in the Origins Novel there was that Dream/Vision by a Prophet Duncan that seemed to allude to the Pre-Existence of the Xenomorph too.

So it just appears to me that ADF adds Material that tries to Discredit the route that there was NO Xenomorph before David's Experiments and i am Concerned that this is WHAT his New Novel would go on to Further Indicate..

Which would RENDER the Effort and Experiments by David all a bit of a Waste of Time for him, but i bet he had NOTHING better to do....  so he would work and experiment on the Black Goo, Neomorphs and what like and NOT really have any Success.... then just Magically Discover a EGG and then Experiment on that ;)

You wait and see!

But then it would be interesting to see the Explanation to WHY the Engineers would be Storing such Deadly Organisms on their Home-World... i would not be surprised if the Engineers are mentioned only in Context to them using Planet 4 as a Place to Sacrifice themselves to SPAWN the Xenomorph...

I guess thats a Route that may Please a lot of Fans though.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberDeaconJan-17-2020 3:30 PM

I think UNTIL we get a Confirmation and a Release of this NEW NOVEL.. we could Speculate about what things could be Contained within such a Story!

Paradise Lost:  (John Milton) was essentially the Tale of the Fall of Lucifer, it was about a Create Being that was Created so Perfect that this being Lucifer became some Proud of his Perfection, that he started to see WHY he should not be seen as Equal to his Creator, and Superior to Mankind.  It shows us how he had Persuaded a 3rd of the Angels to join him and their Punishment and  Exile

We can draw some similarities with David, but also maybe something similar Happened with the Engineers too?

The Engineers World was to be considered what we would call PARADISE... and i had mentioned a Few Times that maybe we should look at Paradise in Context of it being a Contained City that is the Cradle of Civilization and a Place only those deemed Worthy/Righteous and Pure are Permitted to Reside.

I think when we look at Planet 4 then it does seem to me to FIT with Paradise and the Garden of Eden... had EVE not been Persuaded to Eat the Forbidden Fruit, then maybe Adam and Eve would have Prospered into Creating a Civilization that would be Contained within the Garden of Eden under the Watch by their Creator and his Minions.

These are some of the Things i had discussed before we ever got any indication of Alien Covenant, i discussed these in 2013 as i was in PART trying to TIE them into how i would Expand/Explore the Engineers.


Considering what i just put, then if this Novel is about Planet 4 and David, then we can see that INDEED if this Place was Paradise, then after the Arrival of David to this Paradise, he had indeed been Stranded on this WORLD.

We see that "idle hands are the devil's playthings" and so David made some USE of his Time on Planet 4.

*His Various Notes are Evident to him Exploring Past the Boundaries of the City, and to Study Various Fauna and Flora.

*These Notes also indicate he has Carried out Various Experiments on said Fauna and the Black Goo, and the Neomorph Spores to Concoct a Whole Manner of HORRORS as Evident in his Work Shop.

*These Notes also seem to Indicate that he likely Discovered some Surviving Engineers, whom he had Tortured and Experimented with.  Which suggests that the BOMBARDMENT had a Limited Radius and their was some Places of Sanctuary.

*David seems to Indicate/Admit that Dr Shaw was NOT killed in the Crash, and so there was a Period of Time she was Alive, and that he had informed her that he had WASHED this World Clean so they could START anew but she Rejected his Plans... thus likely sealing her FATE!

So there is QUITE a lot that could be Covered, and i was meaning to Cover these and more in a attempt to WRITE a Story that Covered that Period between Prometheus and Alien Covenant.

Maybe it is that ADF is also going to do the same and so we can Speculate to WHAT END his Story would Evolve and what it would Contain.

Maybe i should concentrate on Fleshing Out my Parallel Alien Resurrection Story instead that i had a idea for in 2014 ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberPraetorianJan-18-2020 3:13 PM

The title treatment for your prequel story is great BigDave and Pandemonium has to be mentioned over and over.  

The Alien: Covenant movie poster looks like the place of all demons (pandemonium) and the Alien: Covenant Origins novel opens with a description of something similar to what we see on the movie poster.

Lawrence of Arabia

"Considering his Work on the ALIEN Franchise, and how there was a Untold Story about the Period on Planet 4 from 2094-2104 and the Title: is LOST ON PARADISE.

Considering that Earlier Drafts of Alien Covenant was ALIEN: PARADISE LOST then i think we can Assume that his NEW Novel will indeed be about such Events."

Your analysis above carries even more weight BigDave when considering Alan Dean Foster's latest Update on his website in regards to his comments on Lawrence of Arabia, below.

"1 January 2020...I recently re-watched "Lawrence of Arabia", which is probably my third favorite film of all time (one and two being "Gunga Din" and the 1940 version of "The Thief of Bagdad". Having been present at the premiere of the restored version, all 70mm and stereo sound of it, in Los Angeles many years ago, it is more than a little strange to watch it even on a modern big screen TV. But the wonder and magnificence of it all still shines through, even though I have to continuously remind myself that Peter O'Toole was almost a foot taller than the real T.E. Lawrence..."

Anyone that has seen Prometheus would catch this reference and I believe this is an easy to decode hint when reading the Updates on Alan Dean Foster's website.


Dane Hallett Alien: Covenant Concept Artist

There are concept art pieces on Dane Hallett's Facebook page that are also very interesting in regards to a potential Alien project.  These examples below have aspects that may hint towards an Alien relation.  

Dane Hallett Alien: Covenant David Drawing, below.

David cites underwater expeditions in his notes on the drawings, below.  There are other drawings of starved Engineers too indicating some time before they were all gone from Planet 4 after David's attack.


Dane Hallett cites "fallen project" in regards to other works of concept art that I'm unsure what was for but are really great and they could fit in the Alien universe in my opinion, see below.

The Dane Hallett response to this comment below is very, very interesting...xeno...the potential Alan Dean Foster Alien novel may be a "retooling" of the prequel story after Alien: Covenant.


MemberTrilobiteJan-18-2020 4:04 PM

Good to hear there could be something solid about the events with David and Shaw between Prometheus and AC. I only wish it could be a movie or mini series on a streaming service. 


MemberPraetorianJan-18-2020 4:53 PM

...circling back....

"The Engineers World was to be considered what we would call PARADISE... and i had mentioned a Few Times that maybe we should look at Paradise in Context of it being a Contained City that is the Cradle of Civilization and a Place only those deemed Worthy/Righteous and Pure are Permitted to Reside."

Ridley Scott mixing up of the roles in Paradise Lost is what I wanted to cite as well BigDave...good stuff.  

Instead of divine Angels attacking the Fallen (Paradise Lost), have the progeny of the Fallen Angels (Engineer's Biblical Inheritance, David's notes above) attack David and maybe the humans that created him.  

David attacking Planet 4 is something similar to a judgement on lukewarm Engineers who expected nothing but comfort.  And they were wiped out by their own weapons.


MemberPraetorianJan-18-2020 5:01 PM

Welcome dk

A series of some sort tends to be the is certainly my wishes for an Alien-type series to stream on something. 

LOST ON PARADISE confirmed as an Alien novel would be so wonderful....and yes, then put it to film in some way as soon as possible.


MemberDeaconJan-18-2020 9:16 PM

Well i would maybe expect some News on Alien Day about any in the Work Novels that Relate to the Franchise and so maybe they may reveal that ADF is working on a Project if so then that could be a indication that LOST IN PARADISE could be about David on Planet 4... only Time will Tell ;)

Regarding those FEW Concepts by HALLET we can only Speculate on what this Canned Project was, looking at it then it Sadly Appears to NOT be connected to ALIEN but some Chinese Production Sci-Fi.... seemed interesting though.

Seems that some may have wondered if it was Alien Awakening, well what ever the Covenant Sequel would have been and you would have to assume David would have liked to CONTINUE with his Genetic Experiments ;)

Have to Remember that David is in GOD MODE now, and he Likely would have wanted to Prove he could Surpass the Creations that Mankind and the Engineers had achieved. 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberDeaconJan-18-2020 10:05 PM

Regarding my Poster... its kind of a Play On Words ;)

Considering that the Engineers come from what we would call Paradise, we have to Wonder what Dr Shaw would be expecting as she is guided by her FAITH!

Looking at some of the Reasons that RS had hinted the Engineers wanted to Destroy us for, then we could safely Assume that had we all Behaved in a Way and Adopted a Simple Way of Life like those Planet 4 Engineers had then maybe they would have had NO reason to Destroy us?

If we look at Alien Covenant and The Crossing, we can only assume that Dr Shaw was NOT made aware of what Happened, its likely David had LIED to her, so when she Awakens the World that Awaits her is NOT in any kind of State to what she had HOPPED to have Discovered.

You have to look at it from HER Perspective....

If David just informed her that he Discovered the Engineers were WICKED and they was about to ATTACK and so he had NO Choice but to take a Safety Precaution and Bombard them.  Well she would have been ANGRY and likely would have wanted David to awaken her before they Arrived so that SHE could make that Decision.   For her she does-not FEAR DEATH she would Gladly DIE if it meant she gets some Answers...

For David we have to remember he sees himself as a Sentient Life-Form, and its Unlikely he would want to be Destroyed... also if he had CARE for Dr Shaw he would NOT be willing to take any Chances of any HARM coming to HER even if he wanted her SAFE for his OWN Selfish Love...

So from his Perspective he would LIKELY had Pulled the Plug on the Engineers as a Guaranteed Safe-Gard for himself and Dr Shaw.

I would assume that David would NOT however be Honest with Dr Shaw, i would Assume and it seems the Excuse he gave would be that he FELT the Ship was Under a Attack, the Engineers Sent out something to DOCK as they was Suspicious and he tried to Escape but during this it cause the Ship to Crash/Fall out the Sky and UNLEASH its Bio-Weapon.

We can Assume that Dr Shaw awakens to Discover they have Crashed, and she would have some IDEA of the Deadly Nature of the Pathogen and that it WOULD-NOT be Safe to Venture outside.

David could Confirm this, and this for him is a Convenient way to KEEP her Locked Away on the Ship, while he is FREE to Venture out and Explore the Engineers City.  I would Assume that Dr Shaw was kept on the Ship for Months, as the Environment outside was NOT SAFE!

On Davids Adventures he maybe brought her back some Fruit/Food and Clean Water, at which point over Time you can Assume that Dr Shaw would be thinking how come David can get Food/Drink that is NOT infected with the Pathogen!

In TRUTH we see that he had discovered Flora and Fauna that appeared to NOT be infected and so we can SAFELY Assume that Planet 4 has Flora/Fauna all over its Surface and that the BOMBARDMENT only infected a Certain Radius.... 

And it was the Engineers Hubris for confining themselves to ONE City that was their Down Fall.  We see that David had Experimented on Female and Infant Engineers, i would ONLY assume they were ALIVE!

HOW did he manage to Experiment on these beings and NOT get his Head Torn Off?  The Answer is Simple... the Engineers were NOT prepared for the Bombardment, just like MOST Humans are on Earth... IF there was a Outbreak or Something and EVERYONE had to Barricade themselves away (think the Movie 10 Cloverfield Lane) then HOW LONG would your FOOD/DRINK supplies Last?  Have you Prepared a Years Supply? or More?

So i would say its LIKELY that Some Engineers managed to Barricade themselves away and KNEW they could NOT venture outside and they SIMPLY Ran out of Food/Drink and became Emaciated and thus they would be RIPE for the Pickings for David....

Maybe  a Few Engineers attempted to Explore but became infected with Neomorph?  And so the Survivors had NO CHOICE but to Wait Out the Infection or Wait for HELP!

The Engineers likely would react like Humans, in that the MALES would be prepared to insure the Rations of Food/Drink go to the Women and Children, which would make the MALES more Emaciated First.

Back to Dr Shaw.... she could get suspicious and Wonder Outside one time and Discover she could Survive Outside (like Michelle did in 10 Cloverfield Lane), maybe she only goes out for a little while, and returns so that David does-not know.... this would give her a GOOD chance to put her Suspicion to the TEST.... she could ASK him... "David has the Infection Passed, is it Safe Outside yet" which he could REPLY that it is NOT.... she would know there and then that he is LYING and then Wonder WHY?

So then she could FOLLOW him and ONCE she makes her way to his Work-Shop she would Discover the Horrors, maybe she sees Alive Engineers who are Chained Up, Infants that are Experimented on!

Dr Shaw could Discover that some Engineers had Survived and she would be ANGRY as if they had attempted to SAVE some of them, maybe they could have GIVEN some Answers!

When she Finally Faces David she would DEMAND some Answers and he would likely still try and LIE to a Degree.  I would assume this is WHEN he declares to her that he is doing this for HER.... so he can Figure a Way so that he can Help her to Procreate and so they can START a NEW Eden.

At this POINT i would suspect that Dr Shaw has LOST any Trust for David and she would want NOTHING to do with his Plans and would TRY and Escape!

David would Catch Her, and TRY and Imprison her, and maybe he Proclaims his LOVE for her.... maybe she would PLAY along so that he may Release Her...... but then he takes the Signals Wrong and goes in for a KISS and she Rejects him.... and he DOES-NOT take Rejection WELL

And the REST is History!

These are EVENTS that i think could likely have Happened that Warrant a Novel, and are the Foundation for the Kind of Story that i would have Fleshed Out with the Project i had Put Off...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberNeomorphJan-19-2020 3:39 AM

Maybe there is something to write about the time between Prometheus and Covenant. Hopefully it will be about more than crazy David. Maybe ADF is about to write a story like that. He seems like a good writer judging from an interview at AVP-galaxy podcast. Eventually his novel version about Covenant is better than the movie since it can not be much worse.

The more he adds that goes against David as the creator of the Xeno the better. The idea that David started it sucks and should never have been in the movie at all. If ADF is trying to go against that then good.

It would be nice if they would have something about the Engineers in the book. What did not get a lot about it in AC so hopefully there will be more information about them there. An idea is that if we will get a third movie they should not have too much in the book but then if there will not be a third one they can have as much as possible in it. There could be a third option that they are trying to release a book about the Engineers or with them in it and judging from how well that book does depends on if they will release a movie that features more of the Engineers. Hopefully the book will have them as creators of the Xeno rather than David.


MemberDeaconJan-19-2020 6:50 PM

"The idea that David started it sucks and should never have been in the movie at all"

I agree with that, but this came about from FOX not wanting to do the kind of Movie that RS intended that would have STEERED AWAY from the Xenomorph....

Could RS had agreed to give the Xenomorph but add the David as Creator as a BIG .... F-U to Fans who he may think are a reason he had to make a ALIEN Prequel and not go to do what he wanted to do "they want Aliens, i give them $£%$^$ Aliens" as he said.

A thing to remember is Hill and Giler have a MASSIVE say in the Franchise and they did want there ALIEN made which indicated the Xenomorph was a Weyland Yutani Creation but RS had fought HARD to maintain much of O'Bannon's and Shusett's Original Ideas contained.

So maybe Hill/Giler added the David had Created the Xenomorph idea.... and RS just felt it was Interesting as far as a Curve Ball and FITTED with the Broader Themes of Prometheus.

The SAD thing is they have kind of DUG themselves into a Corner....i dont mind if the Novel would try and indicate that David could not have Created the Xenomorph as long is they give a Good Explanation to WHY he thinks he Created a Masterpiece and WHY the Engineers would have a EGG on Planet 4.... unless ADF explains that the EGG came from somewhere else (not Planet 4) i just hope we dont get a HALF ARSED and LAZY way to discredit the David as Creator Plot.

For me the David Creator Plot should remain as far as all he had done is Create the Proto-Type and the Engineers in a Sequel would EVOLVE his Creation.

I guess they could BLOMKAMP what we saw in Alien Covenant like what would have Happened to Alien 3... as in OH... Alien Covenant never really HAPPENED!

But i dont think that would be GOOD.... i think we have to Accept Alien Covenant and try and Repair/Evolve the Damage than to just BRUSH it under the Carpet... but i know that UPSETS a LOT of Fans who see the Eggs come out of the BACKSIDE of a Queen ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberPraetorianJan-19-2020 7:37 PM

Welcome and happy new year Thoughts_Dreams.

The Alien: Covenant Origins novel was heavy on character development and didn't reveal Walter until the very end.  Alan Dean Foster did great with that one too.  

If this novel is an Alien story about Planet 4, then he could certainly explain how the Engineers are notified of David's works or go into the history of the egg that was used as a template in the lab on Planet 4.  

There is quite a bit there other than an android's work that Foster could devote time to.  The Alien: Covenant novelization opened up an opportunity to explain the history of Planet 4.


The Egg on Planet 4

"Quite something, that’s for sure, Oram muttered. He continued to gaze at the egg thing and its contents. As patiently lifeless as it was, it still manage to send a quiver of fear through here.

"Oh captain." David shake his head sadly. "Acknowledge beauty when you see it. Even if it’s appearance disturbs you, surely you could admire the skill that went into its design. In case you were wondering, I had nothing to do with it. It lies as I found it, a supreme example of the Engineers skill. And also, I suppose of their hubris."

"Would that I could create something so perfect in its function, he added. I try, but I don’t have thousands of years of practice at biological and genetic engineering. I only have my pitiable programming on which to draw. That, and 10 years of earnest effort on my own behalf. I have learned only a little, yet a soldier on, hoping all ways to achieve something like this, always striving to do better, to improve. That’s what the engineers did, I suppose.That is what someone playing God should do."

Alien: Covenant novelization page 243.


MemberDeaconJan-20-2020 2:50 PM

The Egg on Planet 4

Indeed it seems that page 243 is something that ADF had added that was NOT any part of the Drafts...

I dont think it was the BEST way to try and Discredit the David Creator Plot!

If we look at the Movie and Drafts then it seems that the Engineers have NOTHING related to the Xenomorph on Planet 4 and HOW STUPID would that be for them to keep something related on Planet 4

Considering the Drafts, the Movie and the Work Shop and David's Notes.... then a Prequel Novel to Alien Covenant would surely be covering the Process of HOW it was that David had Experimented on the Neomorph, and used the Black Goo to Engineer his OWN version of it that he had managed to Obtain Various Traits from Various Organisms to MERGE into his Masterpiece.

Even though this is a BITTER PILL for many to Swallow!

To attempt to CHANGE this by making a Prequel Novel i do hope that its well thought out... and to explain WHY it is David had put all the Effort, when he had FOUND a EGG as it was.... and then hopefully it explains WHY the Engineers would have KEPT such a THING!

I hope that we wont go on to explore the other Juggernaughts, or a Underground Facility where the Engineers Keep Thousands of Eggs.... and then Reveal that this is the SOLE purpose of the Engineers to Sacrifice themselves for the Xenomorph and THEN to NOT give a Good Reason for doing so!

Seems to me that ADF was simply NOT happy about the Xenomorph Origins and unlike many of us... he was working on a Novel and so could attempt to do something about it.

The Manner of how he done so.. i feel was not that Imaginative or thought out!

The Question that would have to be ANSWERED would be WHY THE HELL and WHERE would then Engineers keep a EGG in the Cathedral?

If they explore a David did-not create it Change of Plan... hopefully they can FIND a better way to Explain to WHY the Engineers would want to bother with the Xenomorph and be as STUPID to keep one on their Homeworld.

A Good Way to do this would be to LOOK at what Reason would they want with the Xenomorph... and explore something that shows their use is MORE than for KILLING!

I think looking at RIPLEY 8 would be the BEST way to go ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberXenomorphJan-20-2020 4:40 PM

Cool! more books...need to keep this line of the series going.


"Explain to WHY the Engineers would want to bother with the Xenomorph and be as STUPID to keep one on their Homeworld."


Humans keep all sorts of dangerous animals(and violent criminals) alive. We could probably exterminate all dangerous critters if we wanted too?(tigers/lions/bears/etc... Along with all the atom bombs and chemical weapons....but that's not going to happen..humans are smart enough not to destroy the means of their destruction.

Human hubris or Engineer hubris?




MemberXenomorphJan-20-2020 5:33 PM

And what's the story if David (or Weyland corp) didn't have a hand in the Xeno's creation or introduction? Xeno is clearly humanoid...Either humanity created it or the Engineers(who are related to might as well be humanity) 

Having alien scientists on planet XYZorg create the xeno is a boring non-story.

Having the xeno evolve on an unknown planet is also boring. (over 8 million species have been identified on Earth and only a handful are human like. can't believe anything human like would be found in another star system )


Honest question: What's a good story driven alternative to David(humanity) as the creator?


MemberDeaconJan-20-2020 11:43 PM

I think thats some Good Points Monster Zero

I do think even IF we had a Prometheus Sequel that had indicated the Engineers had Created the Xenomorph then i think some Fans would still not be Happy.

In Hindsight the David as the Creator would be seen as a Mistake, i would not be sure if the Intention prior to 2015 would have been this Revelation, but it fits with the Larger Arc/Story and Theme that Ridley Scott was trying to push home.

So its a case of what is DONE is DONE and i would hope if they try and make another U-Turn then they try to do so in a way to NOT do much Harm to the Whole David Plot.

There could be ways they could Resolve this as in Terms of Damage Control.

You make a Good Point about Dangerous Organisms on Earth and Planet 4 could have had its Fair Share... but it seemed Pretty Much for a Long Time that the Xenomorph was considered more of a Bio-Weapon, be it something that was Engineered this way, or something that was Discovered and Found to be of USE in this way....

With the Engineers being a Space Fairing Race it would be UNWISE to keep such things on their Home-world.  By that i would assume WHEN we get to the Technology Level and Exploration of the Human Race in the ALIEN Franchise, then IF we was to start to mess about with Biological Warfare we would do so on another WORLD.  At the Moment and Recent History (last 100 years) thats NOT been possible and so we would Experiment with stuff on our Planet.. But as the Engineers have been Space Fairing for a LONG TIME i dont think they would Store and Experiment with such things on Planet 4.... thats not to say thats not the case.

However if the Engineers had some kind of Zoological Museum of Sorts were they could have Stored some Organisms they came across and a INERT Egg was one such Organism, then this could make a bit more Sense.

You could have David recall how he discovered such a thing in some Place on Planet 4 and some Notes about what it was and have him suggest that it appears the Engineers may have Experimented on this Organism on LV-223 to Extract Traits for some Purpose and then they had decided to Create Horrors based off it.

David could state that for all their Efforts, they had OVERLOOKED the Potential Perfection that the Organism had, and the Engineers had only just been Creating a Mockery of this Organism.

David could then say that he saw Potential with the Engineers Creations and the Experiments on LV-223 and the Neomorph Spores had Potential but lacked the Perfection of the Original Organism.   But David sees the Potential that the Original had, and with the INERT EGG

And using the Black Goo to extract DNA from the Dead Face Huger he found it HARD to replicate it, but when Crossing this with the other Experiments he had Carried out he had found a WAY to Merge this DNA with the Neomorph to Create a Hybrid... his Masterpiece.

He could then Mock the Engineers by saying they could NOT control the Original Xenomorph and were FOOLISH in trying to Engineer Horrors they could Control from it....  But that David has Engineered a Version that he can Control.

This could be the Better way to go such a Route rather than having David Discover a Active Egg or Eggs as then you have to ASK why does he bother with other Experiments?

It does-not make the Engineers seem as Foolish, it makes the Xenomorph Ancient again, but it also shows that David has managed to Perfect the Organism.  Then again some Fans will ONLY be happy at having David just Create a Poor Knock Off... well maybe you cant always have your CAKE and Eat It!

The ONLY real Conflicting thing about such a Route is that Davids Workshop and Especially Notes seem to show that he has take the Deacon DNA and Neomorph and by using the Black Goo he has USED various other Organisms for Certain Traits that when all Combined and Merged with the Neomorph/Deacon we get the Xenomorph he Created.

I have said this a Number of Times... it should be LEFT as such and Explained as Such... (what Davids Notes Suggest).

We are left with a Xenomorph that is NOT quite there yet, it looks a bit Different....   This then leaves it for Future Movies to then introduce the Engineers or a Race that is Above/Below them.... and have this Species see the Improvement and Creation that David has made and see the Potential to FURTHER take it and Evolve it.

Thus David is the Middle Man...

The Problem with this is the same as keeping it as it seems NOW.... which is the Time-Frame would be less than 18 Years, likely less than 10 Years before we get to ALIEN and for some Fans i think Accepting the Derelict and Eggs have NOT been on LV-426 for a VERY LONG TIME is something they would NOT accept...

But there could be a Work Around ;)

Who is to say that LOST IN PARADISE would be connected to Alien Covenant and the Franchise?  Time will tell.

The Idea i had for explore the 10 years prior to Alien Covenant would have NOT tried to show that David was NOT the Creator.... it would have NOT gone against what RS had indicated as FAR as the Creator of the Xenomorph but more so give a Good Insight into HOW and WHY he had Created it.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberXenomorphJan-21-2020 4:18 PM

"Accepting the Derelict and Eggs have NOT been on LV-426 for a VERY LONG TIME is something they would NOT accept..."

100% agree! This is far more interesting IMHO.

I don't think any origins of the xeno is going to be perfect.

I'm not happy with David being the (co-)creator....I'd Rather it be an unanswered mystery.  (cosmic horror...something from the great beyond...unknowable) 

I think AC was just uneven enough to bring all into question.


MemberPraetorianJan-22-2020 9:29 AM

"Dr Shaw could Discover that some Engineers had Survived and she would be ANGRY as if they had attempted to SAVE some of them, maybe they could have GIVEN some Answers!

When she Finally Faces David she would DEMAND some Answers and he would likely still try and LIE to a Degree. I would assume this is WHEN he declares to her that he is doing this for HER.... so he can Figure a Way so that he can Help her to Procreate and so they can START a NEW Eden.

At this POINT i would suspect that Dr Shaw has LOST any Trust for David and she would want NOTHING to do with his Plans and would TRY and Escape!"

Thank you for going back to this BigDave.  To try and reconcile Dr. Shaw's belongings in a room in the temple on Planet 4 (Alien: Covenant novelization), then David must have been able to set the juggernaut down rather gently on the waterfall without jarring Dr. Shaw enough to kill her.  

Daniels showed an example of this by hitter her face and causing her nose to bleed upon waking on the Covenant while it was shuttering.  

So, if David was able to set down the juggernaut gently and then waited to wake Dr. Shaw until years later on Planet 4 once the plague had settled down, the room in the temple can be explained.  


The Egg on Planet 4

"I'm not happy with David being the (co-)creator....I'd Rather it be an unanswered mystery. (cosmic horror...something from the great beyond...unknowable)"

I believe we are still in the dark in regards to a lot of details MonsterZero.  My point is that there may be quite a bit to still be happy about.  

What if David's studies on Planet 4 were responsible for something like the xenomorph line in Alien: The Cold Forge and the "trials", below, were a precursor to a modern version still under study yet to deploy as a weapon by the Company?   

The xenomorph origin could then still be intact (and the Space Jockey) as far as an unknown, pieces of Engineer history that they were ashamed of and tried to hide only for David to resurrect much later, below.  

This, I believe, ties to the Alien: Covenant novel explanation of the egg David appears to use as a template for his studies.  The biggest questions I have are:

Why Walter?

Why does Alan Dean Foster devote time to confirming Walter is collagen-based (DNA) opposed to a synthetic like David and where does that fit?


MemberXenomorphJan-22-2020 3:39 PM

Lost On Paradise is not Alien related.




MemberDeaconJan-22-2020 4:33 PM

"then David must have been able to set the juggernaut down rather gently on the waterfall without jarring Dr. Shaw enough to kill her"

Well Wayne Haagg had suggested the Juggernaught and Scorpion Ship had a DUST UP (Battle) and this lead to BOTH Ships Crashing.

There is NO reason why Dr Shaw could not have survived with NOT even a Scratch.

But on Screen the events still have a lot of Mystery and could be Explored in ways different to what was said by Wayne Haagg, the Juggernaught could have Survived..

David goes on to deceive Dr Shaw as i had indicated in early Posts... and she Flees to the Juggernaught and SHE Crashes it as she attempts to LEAVE!

In the Drafts its indicated that something had Caused the Juggernauts to become stranded on Planet 4, some Protective Field in which the Covenant Crew had to Destroy the Devices above the Planets Poles so that the Rescue Mission could come down and TAKE them Off Planet 4.

So it could be explored that something Prevented the Engineer Ships from Leaving and upon seeing Dr Shaw attempt to Escape but see the Ship could NOT due to what ever is Activated... this could then explain WHY it is that David realized he was OFFICIALLY Stranded on Planet 4

Or she simply could have LOST control of the Ship for some other Reason..

"Why does Alan Dean Foster devote time to confirming Walter is collagen-based (DNA) opposed to a synthetic like David and where does that fit?"

It did seem in the Viral Videos that maybe Walter could be a Synthetic Construct like ELDON was in the Fire and Stone Comics.

Which if this is the CASE or similar, then a Walter Model could potentially be infected with the Black Goo, could it be Infected with a Face Hugger?  That could be a bit of a Stretch.

But i think there is some reason for WHY it is that Walter is Constructed differently and i would NOT be surprised if the Intention was that this would play some ROLE in how we get from Davids Xenomorph to the more Bio-Mechanical Version in the Franchise ;)

So i think a AMALGAMATION was on the Cards.... Hopefully those Responsible for Merging them will NOT be David or a Human but the Engineers or beings Related/Above to them.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberDeaconJan-22-2020 4:41 PM

"Lost On Paradise is not Alien related"

Thanks for the Head Up SM

Sadly indeed as the Events prior to Alien Covenant do Warrant a Novel ;)  Guess that means i could try and work on one or at least Summit a Very Broad Synopsis... it will be something INTERESTING to discus as there is a LOT of Mystery as far as what Happened on Planet 4 and there is a LOT of Depth that could be added to what we had Vaguely been Shown.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


AdminEngineerJan-22-2020 6:53 PM

It certainly appears to have links and could be a title related to Prometheus / Covenant. Or it's a really massive coincidence.

Hyped for: Alien: Romulus | Badlands (Predator 6) | Cloverfield 4


MemberDeaconJan-22-2020 7:15 PM

I would agree with that Chris....  maybe SM has acquired further knowledge. Only Time will Tell.... maybe its wishful thinking?

But Certainly i think such a Story (Journey/Fate of Dr Shaw and Davids Shenanigans all those Years Alone) does WARRANT a Novel at some point.

Is LOST ON PARADISE this Story?  I guess we have to wait for Confirmation of what the Novel is really about.  I would suspect that SM may not be wrong though... they are usually quite Spot On with things like this.

Which is Unfortunate News for us :(

It is still FUN to Speculate about what such a Novel could have Covered though ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberXenomorphJan-22-2020 8:28 PM

I just emailed ADF and asked him if it was Alien related and he said no.


MemberPraetorianJan-23-2020 6:13 AM

eeeewwwww, S.M is the bearer of bummeresque news...

Thank you for checking on if for us S.M.


MemberXenomorphJan-23-2020 4:20 PM

Soz.  It'd be great if he did do a David/ Shaw story.


AdminEngineerJan-23-2020 5:27 PM

I'm surprised he hasn't written one already, to be honest. It's such a vast, untapped plethora of ideas and concepts and story angles. You could make an entire series on David's journey alone during the events between Prometheus and Covenant.

Hyped for: Alien: Romulus | Badlands (Predator 6) | Cloverfield 4


MemberDeaconJan-23-2020 11:20 PM

" It's such a vast, untapped plethora of ideas and concepts and story angles"

Certainly is... we have to remember prior to the TWO Part Ending, the Last Day in the Life of the Prometheus we saw the Juggernaught Crash, we had the Engineer get Face Hugged and then Dr Shaw had Recovered Davids Head/Body.

*4 Days had passed since then and until Dr Shaw made the Warning Signal/Escaped LV-223 in a Juggernaught.

*The Crossing indicates that they must have recovered some Supplies/Parts and Equipment either from the Wreckage or more Likely the Life-Boat.

*The Crossing also indicates that Juggernaught was Drifting in Space for Months before Dr Shaw decided to place David back together.. Looking at Hair Growth we can assume at least 6 Months.

So there is like a Extending Crossing Story to be Told!

Then we come to the Arrival at Planet 4. And from Alien Covenant as well as Davids Notes etc.

*We know that Dr Shaw had NOT died in the Crash.

*The Bombardment had NOT infected every Fauna on Planet 4 or it had NOT infected them Permanently

*It would appear that some Engineers must have Survived, include Females and Infants.

*Dr Shaw's Body seemed in Good Preservation was this something David had managed to do, or a indication she had NOT been Dead for Too Long?

*It seems David had vastly Studied/Catalogued a lot of Flora/Fauna and had Conducted Quite a lot of Experiments.

So yeah over a 5-10 Year Period Following when they had left LV-223 then quite a NUMBER of events had taken Place.

Thats surely room for a Story that would be Suited more to a NOVEL

Regarding LOST ON PARADISE... even if its NOT connected to ALIEN which seems the case, who is to say that its NOT using some ideas that maybe ADF had install for such a Installment that was Scraped.

I cant help but think that Raised by Wolves may use quite a bit of the Plans that Ridley Scott had for the Alien Covenant sequel that seems Very Unlikely to ever be made.

I cant wait for the Synopsis to the LOST ON PARADISE Novel, be interesting to see what it is about.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017


MemberPraetorianJan-24-2020 7:14 AM

"untapped plethora of ideas"



Untapped Ideas

Walter had just moments in the Alien: Covenant Origins novel...David could have the same, small part in a novel about Planet 4.  A whole novel could be written covering the history of Planet 4 and it's significance to the Engineer and Human history before the Prometheus mission took place.

Yes, a connected history or one and the same that was verified by Dr. Shaw's DNA-comparison-in-between-genomes glass display for Charlie.  I believe that LV-223 and Planet 4 were connected in some way before the 2090's and that would be great to read about. 

"So there is like a Extending Crossing Story to be Told!"

Yes there is and please cover the inside of this ship above when discussing the Engineer's ways.  And what planet is this shown at the beginning of Prometheus?


MemberPraetorianJan-24-2020 8:55 AM


I believe this is the band, below, mentioned by Alan Dean Foster and the concert in his Updates.
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