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The Bioweapon on LV-223

The Bioweapon on LV-223

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chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPDec-15-2019 8:37 AM

After having watched all the films once again, here’s my conclusion on how to make some sense (coherence) of all the films about the Alien. One principle I have used is Occam’s Razor (the simplest thesis, without gods, myths or symbolism).

To me, an important background to Prometheus is biological warfare on Earth (Film sometimes reflects reality). During the Sino-Japanese War (1939-1945), there was a gruesome facility for biological warfare in Manchuria where experiments were made on living human prisoners. Plague, cholera, smallpox and other deceases were tested (and other horrible things). Over 3000 prisoners were killed. The name of the instalment was Unit 731. In 1979, there was an outbreak of anthrax spores from a military facility in Sverdlovsk, Russia. About 100 people were killed.

These are examples of experiments that have been made on human beings and on an outbreak leading to deaths. In Prometheus, Janek tells miss Vickers about an outbreak of some kind of biological weapon which he had witnessed during his military service (We also have Shaw’s father’s death from ebola).

On LV-223, the Engineers built a military instalment in order to create a biological weapon (for mass destruction). Creating worlds with life is part of their experiments and the bioweapon is for both creation and destruction (destruction of the ones they’re not satisfied with). What they finally came up with was chemical A0-3959X.91-15 - the mutagenic pathogen (the black goo). In the mural, we see the result of experiments made on Hominidae (Engineers/humans) test subjects. The Deacon is a kind of neomorph and under it, we have the life cycle of the xenomorph: eggs, chestbursters etc. The development resembles that of David’s experiments.

The mutagenic pathogen is highly unstable, chaotic in its nature, leading to an outbreak on LV-223 killing all Engineers (except one). 2000 years later, the whole thing repeats itself when the Prometheus expedition arrives.

On Planet 4, David unleashes the pathogen on the homeworld of the Engineers killing all and mutating indigenous fungi into creating mutating (neomorph) spores. David experiments with the pathogen, indigenous lifeforms and Shaw creating some xenomorph eggs. On the Covenant, David continues his experiments and creates a Queen (out of Daniels). David sends information about the xenomorph to W-Y. Mother redirects the Nostromo to LV-426 because W-Y wants the organism for the weapons division (biological warfare). The alien creature wipes out the crew on the Nostromo except Ripley.

On LV-426, the colony at Hadley’s Hope is eradicated by the biological weapon (the xenomorph) after W-Y (Burke) has instructed them to check out the Derelict. We learn that an alien Queen lays the eggs. On Fiorina 161, we learn that the xenomorph can grow inside a dead host. It also takes on traits from its host, in this case from an ox and moves on four legs. We also learn that a queen can be bred. Ripley kills the queen by committing suicide. 200 years later, Ripley is resurrected by cloning her DNA from a blood sample from Fiorina 161. Her DNA is mutated and contains xenomorph traits and information to produce a queen embryo. The new queen doesn’t lay a large number of eggs but has a womb instead.

Conclusion

  • The xenomorph (and all its variants) is the result of the bioweapon - the mutagenic pathogen. It’s not a natural species.
  • The amount of pathogen is important for the outcome (sacrificial Engineer, Fifield, Holloway) as is the way it infects the host (inhaling, ingestion etc).
  • The ovomorphs are produced by xenomorph Queens (which are mutated Hominidae females). The first Queen was probably once Daniels.
  • No one really created the xenomorph - the variants are the result of the mutagenic pathogen changing the hosts DNA (different results depending on the amount of pathogen and the host). The xenomorph is a mutated human/Engineer.
  • The mural depicts experiments with the mutagenic pathogen on Hominidae (Engineers/humans).
47 Responses to The Bioweapon on LV-223

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPJan-09-2020 9:56 AM

I think to look at the OT...

From the Moment we get our Eggs on the Derelict the Rest is Quite Basic and Straight Forwards.... the Origins of those Eggs and how they came to be is where its a bit FIDDLY!

Looking at the Occam’s Razor POV that you started Chli i would say the Summery is Quite Accurate

At some point the Engineers on LV-223 had Experimented with stuff that we see a likely End Product being in those URNS that are to be USED to Eradicate Mankind.

But messing about with such Deadly Stuff, became their downfall after some OUTBREAK which we can only Speculate as to HOW this happened.

If we accept Alien Covenant then it appears this Biological Weapon had Produced the STARTING point for David to carry out Various Experiments until he Obtained his Xenomorph.   And that before we get to ALIEN we would see this Creation go through some more Engineering/Evolving before we get to those EGGS.

This Further Engineering/Evolving does-not even have to come from David... Engineers could come and Continue his Work, or even some Hybrid Humans that he Creates... or EVEN it could be that the Company Engineers those EGGS!

We have YET to reach that Conclusion, and so things could take a Change or even another U-Turn.

The LARGER piece of the Puzzle is the Black Goo Origins...

We can see those LV-223 Experiments and Black Goo are Connected.... but its still a PUZZLE on how this connects with the SACRIFICIAL Scene...  The FULL details/origins of this TOOL is still up for some Debate.

A Simple Explanation would be that either the Goo is Pre-programed to Produce Xenomorph like Results and THUS the Sacrificial Scene Now becomes the Seeding of this Pathogen and NOT the Origins of Mankind.

Or that the Pathogen is just a TOOL that can Re-map the Genomes of Organic Matter and so can be USED to Program any Organic Creation...  If we look at EVERY Life-Form has a Genetic Map/Code of Billions of Data..   so you could use the Pathogen to say Program the Skin Color of Human, Eye Color, or you can alter other DATA, so that we can Change a Human to a Ape, or even ANYTHING else.

Then it becomes a Convenient Tool and Plot Device.

What i am saying is the Total Genetic Code of a African Native, European Native and Asian Native are all a 100% DNA Match but the Genetic Code has differences that Determine the Differences of Race, and even Differences within a Set Race...  Eye Color, Hair, etc

If we look at Cats, then a Lion, Tiger and Jaguar all look a bit different, but they SHARE a High % of DNA and Genetic Code.....  taking the FEW strings of Code that make a Lion different to a Jaguar, and if say we had a TOOL to Change the Differences and Reprogram that to INFECT a Lion we could Speculate we could CHANGE the Lion to a Jaguar.... or even a JONESEY!

When we look at a Human vs a Cat then our DNA would be Quite Close like 90% Match... but its other DATA/Differences that make us Different.

What if there was a TOOL that can Map/Re-progam those Differences?

So if you Change the Data Strings that are Different in a CAT to that of a HUMAN could you Turn a Cat Genetic Material into a Human?

We are talking Science Fiction with the Franchise but my POINT being that if the GOO is a Tool to Genetically Reprogram a Organisms Genetic Code... then it would become a CONVENIENT Plot Device...

The GOO would in effect be a CREATION TOOL, but also we could have it as something that can MERGE/HYBRID such Data to Create Hybrids..

Such a Path would make it a A.I of sorts.. a Tool that can be Programed... it could be Programed to INFECT only Organisms that MATCH a Certain Code and then either Replace Certain Codes with others or to just Break Down this Genetic Code and Replicate the Virus... or even Render ALL the Target/Programed Genetic Code/Material to become a Solid/Crystallized...  that would EXPLAIN the Planet 4 Engineers!

I think this is Convenient, and maybe what they intend with the Radical AI McGuffin!

So if we Imagine Organisms are Comprised of like Rubik's Cubes

A Rubik Cube has 54 Squares but this can give 43,252,003,274,489,856,000 possible Combinations, or 43.2 Quintillion

Can you imagine how many Combinations for say 1000 Cubes.... then Imagine if you had a 1000 Cubes where they was all set the same apart from TWO Sqaures on ONE of the Cubes and in Genetic Terms this Changes the Color of a Eye?

If we consider such a comparison with Genetic Code, then the GOO could be a TOOL to Copy/Clone/Combine/Hybrid Codes or even Reprogram them...

In this theory if David had the Genetic Code Map of a Xenomorph and Programed the GOO with that CODE and it Infected a Organism it would Imprint the Xenomorph DNA on it.... 

So this could MEAN that David had NOT created the Xenomorph, if we look at it like that... but thats not to say that this is the Case.

If we look at the GOO in this way, then the Engineers could maybe have Dabbled with the Code and By Accident Produced something that Predated the Xenomorph/Deacon and they FOUND this was Interesting and they Further Continued to Play around with this Specific Code and became Perverted to Want to EVOLVE all Life with this CODE instead of using the Engineers Genetic Code.

This could Constitute a FALL of sorts...

This kind of THEORY would basically allow them to USE the Goo Plot to do what ever they Fancy.... and would explain the Sacrificial Scene having Different Result.

The Goo could be Programed to Break Down Engineer and Replicate his DNA/CODE to either Evolve/Mutate Life it comes into Contact with, or to become Basic Life.

The Goo could been Programed to Break Down Engineer and become a Substance that instead would PROGRAM onto Organisms it comes into Contact with... with a different CODE.. say Xenomorph Related Code.

Or it could be Programed to Change the Genetic Building Blocks of a Organism into a Solid Mater...  so the Sacrificial Engineer who consumes such a Programed Goo would simply turn into a Desiccated Statue like those Planet 4 Engineers.

If this kind of Theory was Applied it would make the Goo what ever anyone wants and it would be the ULTIMATE TOOL of Creation or Death.

The Connection to the Xenomorph would thus be the Perversion of the Substance by Programing it to Create Horrific Forms of Life, that those Engineers who conducted this wanted to Unleash/Evolve other Life into..

David took their Work and Tweaked it a little.

Sorry for LONG POST and if its a it OFF TOPIC ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1535 XPJan-10-2020 4:37 AM

I am not someone that has studied biology or anything like that so I only judge from what I have seen in Prometheus.

The Engineers got the goo from somewhere and they must have found something to use it on. Maybe the goo had been used to increase Xeno tendencies that was in that kind of life-form so the goo gave it increased aggression and so on. Compare it to the worm that swam in the goo in Prometheus. The closer the life-form is initially to the Xeno the less of the substance it needs to come to the end-result. If it is further from the Xeno and has some traits the more goo is needed.

We have the mural but that is so vague so that could be anything that you read into it. I am not sure if that is very much to go on.

Eight years since Prometheus and I am still disappointed with the Zombie version, it is bad. Since humans are basically the same physically I guess that they would have become like Fifield even though I guess that they could be different since people have different personalities.

Having Daniels as the queen is lame since that suggests that David is responsible for it and I can not in any way accept that. You can go that route but I would dislike it so much.

I think that the things that it is about is

1. Where did the goo come from
2. How does it work
3. Does it affect different life-forms in different ways and if so how is that difference (like I can imagine that the cells are different between a cow and a human) and
4. How do we we get the Xeno
5. Are those on LV426 the only ones that exist by that time
6. How do we get from egg-morphing to a queen

At least they did not damage the origins of the goo so at least that is a mystery (phew!) even if they hinted that David did the original version of the Xeno (an explanation that is crap). It should be kept as a mystery I think. About the queen it looks interesting but it has been used too much.

About the Space Jockey and what happened I think that Prometheus hints at that so I am OK with it never being shown. I don't think that they showed us where the weapons were or what exactly happened but then the ship could be very big so we did not see every room (if the rooms in Alien and Prometheus carried similar things). Perhaps the Engineer was already having Xeno-like monsters to bomb earth with (maybe from experiments on LV223). Maybe the derelict in Alien works the same but maybe a different ship (like say Volvo makes different cars but they look different). The difference is that the derelict stopped closer or further from earth but then we do not know if the Engineers and the SJ are the same version. Sorry if this is confusing.

“*Xenomorph was Discovered by the Engineers, and this lead to the Experiments on them to Create the Horrors on LV-223
*The Xenomorph was a Eventual Result of the Experiments that was Conducted on LV-223, be that a Engineered/Designed Result or a Unintentional One.
And thats the WAY they should have left it…"

Yeah, they should never have made Covenant if you ask me.

"What we could Conclude or Speculate to a Logical Conclusion was that the Xenomorph was something that either was the PRECURSOR to those Experiments/Black Goo on LV-223 or that they were the PRECURSOR to the Xenomorph."

Makes sense

I look at LV223 as either a space lab or a military outpost. It can be either or since it is not very much explained but I don't mind that we never get that explanation. The Engineers created it on LV223 and the pilot was about bombing earth with it but got infected and landed on LV426.

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPJan-10-2020 5:45 PM

Your Questions are Hard to Answer in Context to Alien Covenant.... prior to Alien Covenant they was NOT that Hard to get a Answer ;)

I can try and Answer if we go back prior and ignore Alien Covenant ;) but this means these Answers may seem Logical prior to 2017 but are a bit MOOT now.

"1. Where did the goo come from"

Thats the 64 Million $$$ Question, we just dont really know and we can only Endlessly Speculate.  It likely was Obtained or Created but by WHO? is a Mystery, at the Very Least it was USED as a Creation/Hybridization Tool.

"2. How does it work"

Again a Mystery if we look at Prometheus is a bit Ambiguous, but if we look at Prometheus and look at the Scarabs in Jon Spaights Draft and imagine the GOO is the same... Then it seems the GOO can Break Down a Organism into a Substance that Contains/Stores the Organisms DNA and this Substance then Passes on this DNA Traits onto Organisms it comes into Contact with.


"3. Does it affect different life-forms in different ways and if so how is that difference"

I would say it seems that it depends on HOW Much Goo the Organism is in Contact with, and HOW it comes into Contact with it. I would assume the URNS contain the Result of a Organism that was Sacrificed (Sacrificial Goo) that is Related to the Mural or a Precursor to it.


"4. How do we we get the Xeno"

A Mystery but likely as a Result of the Black Goo and Various Experiments on LV-223... if we look at maybe what David did on Planet 4... well i would suspect prior to AC the idea was the Engineers had done similar on LV-223... or that the Xenomorph was a Unintended Evolution of those Experiments or Infection.

"5. Are those on LV426 the only ones that exist by that time"

If we are talking about Ignoring Alien Covenant... then who knows, as with (5) it depends if the Xenomorph was a Engineered Experiment in which case, we CANT rule out there being more Ships with them or Variants of Xenomorphs.  If it is a Unintentional Result or Evolution then the Derelict could be the ONLY one to have those Eggs.

"6. How do we get from egg-morphing to a queen"

Thats just a case of Abandoning One idea for a Queen, we could Speculate that the Xenomorph in ALIEN and ALIENS come from Different Cargo Holds and are Variants with different Procreation Methods.  Or that the Egg Morph would lead to a Queen or a Royal Face Hugger, or that the Queen was a Mutation/Evolution.

Jon Spaights work gives a more Simple Explanation... here is what i take from Alien Genesis/Engineers.

The Engineers have/use a Creation Tool for Extracting and then Passing on a Organisms DNA onto other Organisms to Create Hybrids.

They Discover a Organism that they had NOT Created and see the Results of this Organism, and become Interesting in it.  They then use their Creation Tool to Obtain its DNA and Create Various Hybrids from it... which results in 8 Different Variants of the Xenomorph Organism.  They intended to USE on Mankind to Eradicate us.

This Organism they Encountered but did-not Create would likely be the Holloway Organism in Spaights Work...  and its maybe the Organism in Question as FAR as Prometheus is what was on the Frescos!

The Derelict/Juggernaught i think is another Mystery, i FIND that Carrying Eggs as a Weapon is Flawed... and surely they DONT drop them down from a Height?

Looking at LV-223 and the Sacrificial Engineer Scene (inc Deleted) i SUSPECT the Juggernauts are NOT a Bio-Weapon Carrying Ship....  they WHERE just Advanced Seeding Ships.... that could also RESET a World...

But the whole LV-223 Horrors and Xenomorph are a Perversion/Creation by some Fallen/Twisted Engineers.

EDIT:

I will add that the LV-223 and LV-426 Connection could have been explored in a Number of Ways.... rather than Alien Covenants Set-Up....

A Sequel that went to LV-223 and was NOT about David/Dr Shaw could have Provided more Answers... that would KEPT the Origins as Ancient...   Then we could have had RS go and make his Engineers Story with David and Dr Shaw and have it NOT have to Connect to LV-223 or the Xenomorph.

But ALAS!  

Shame as i could come up with a Number of Ways prior to AC that LV-223 connected to LV-426, that would also tied the Engineers into it as far as WHY they was Fallen... well those on LV-223.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPApr-18-2020 11:22 PM

It seems fitting that the coronavirus might, accidentally, have spread from a laboratory in China, doesn't it?

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPApr-19-2020 4:56 AM

Well we cant be 100% Certain on that..... if this is the case then maybe its ACCIDENTAL.

In Context to LV-223 then i think we cant rule out something Accidentally getting out of Control on LV-223, but looking at LV-223 this is a bit of a PUZZLE and we dont have the Full Facts/Date for example is the Outbreak only Contained to ONE of the Complexes?

For a Outbreak to effect a Single Temple Complex i think could be Accidental, if it Infected more then i would Suspect that its some kind of Deliberate Act/Sabotage.

Looking at Prometheus i would ASSUME the Engineers Space Jockey Suits would act as some kind of Hazmat Suit to protect them from the Pathogen but also to Prevent them from affecting the Pathogen/Room.  As the Big Head Room did seem to have something that kept the Bio-Weapon in Stasis (Preservation of the Head) and the Ampoules.

So my take on the Outbreak would be some kind of SABOTAGE and so Bio-Terrorism.   Regarding COVID-19 then Indeed Labs would study Pathogens and Viruses and that means Potential Accidents can happen.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPApr-20-2020 3:58 AM

Since the pathogen is highly unstable, and we have Janek's explanation, I would say that it's "human" error. I would also say that "the infection" spread naturally to the other facilities - wiping out everything and everyone, except perhaps one Engineer who made it to a juggernaut (eventually the Derelict).

There still is a mystery about the pilot (on LV-223). Where is he? Were all cryopods occupied or was one empty?

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPApr-20-2020 5:43 AM

The LV-223 Facility is something that still holds a lot of MYSTERY

We do have Janeks Explanation and i think we cant throw that out, as the Dialect in Prometheus i feel is used to Push us to Conclusions...

So we dont really know what Protocols are in Place for any Outbreak, we dont 100% know for How-Long the Engineers have been messing about with the Pathogen on LV-223, all we know is the Facility is likely to have been there for 35'000 Years at least (But we cant 100% be certain it had the same use all that Long ago).

We can not be 100% sure for How-Long they had been Experimenting with Strains that are the same or similar to what we see in Prometheus, but you would EXPECT the Engineers to have some Knowledge and Precautions with the Pathogen.

There appears to be 5 Complexes, these seem to be Positioned apart for a Reason, and if they contain Experiments that differ a little, then keeping them apart is a Good Idea.

Each Complex has Multiple Rooms and Corridors, we know some of the Rooms have Urns/Vases in them and so maybe act as Storage, we have to ASSUME maybe some Rooms are for TESTING.

I would assume the way the Rooms are Sealed Off, that should any Spillage or Outbreak Occurs then they could SEAL OFF a certain area.

I would assume the Space Suits are there as some kind of Bio-Hazard Suit that both Protects the Engineers from Infection but also protects the Pathogen from being Triggered.

Dr Shaw made some comparisons to Ebola, now when we see the Pathogen infect the Engineers on Planet 4 we see that it seems to Infect and Replicate inside of them and then is Expelled from the Host.... if Ebola Caused as Severe Reaction and so it caused Infected to Projectile Vomit Infected Blood for Meters then this would make the Virus Spread Greater.

We did see the Engineers Head Explode in the Lab, but this was maybe a Accelerated Effect, we do see the Dead Engineers Suits appear to be Hollow and we had seen the Sacrificial Engineer break down to SOUP so under certain Cir***stances (amount of Pathogen etc) the Goo could cause a Infected person to Spew Out replicated amounts of Pathogen, and in some cases we could see the Body Explode and Spread more of the Stuff into the Air/Water.

All we can do is Speculate, i would assume the Space Jockey Suits would Protect Against Infection, unless the Engineers are infected prior to Suiting Up.  I would also assume that some Environments/Measures can be Maintained in a way that makes the Pathogen In-Active and Finally i would assume that Certain Areas can be SEALED/LOCKED DOWN.

I can see a Accidental Spillage/Outbreak infect a Certain Number of Engineers, but i find it unlikely as to HOW it would get to other Complexes.

There are so Many Mysteries about LV-223 such as it Appears as far as i can remember that 7-8 Engineers managed to get to the Big Head Room before the DOOR came down... what happened to them?  Are they the Numerous Bodies we see in the Corridor?  But they to me look like other Engineers who had also attempted to get to Certain Rooms before LOCK DOWN.

What we do know is there was a OUTBREAK.. it Killed a Number of Engineers, and maybe it Killed them all? 

Maybe ONLY a Certain Number of Engineers came to that Specific Complex at a Specific Time to prepare a MISSION to Earth and these Guys suffered the Outbreak.  So that the Outpost is maybe NOT manned all the Time, the Engineers come in, they Load Up with Pathogen and they Ship Out.

We Certainly have to wonder WHY the Engineers never came back to Secure this Place, or Destroy it.   Or why they never came back to Finish the Job

It is likely they decided to Abandon us and leave us to ROT, we are likely NOT the only World with Humanoid Life, and its likely that NOT every such World had Warranted a Eradication Order.

Maybe they appointed some Engineers to Watch over the Complex, is this what the Last Engineer was, or was he just a LUCKY Survivor?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPApr-20-2020 5:56 AM

Regarding the Derelict.... i think thats a Different Debate, in light of Alien Covenant and we already have had the David did-not Create it Topics.

I will say in Context to that slightly....  the Pathogen in Certain Cir***stances can Create Life.   We see that was the case with Dr Shaw and the Trilobite, we see this with the Neomorph's from Alien Covenant.

So when we look at the Juggernaught then indeed we see that 3 of the Engineers in Cryo-sleep had been Infected, they all appear to have Holes around the Chest Area....   We see NO evidence of Face Huggers..... but thats not to say they could not be INSIDE the Cryo-Pod and Obscured from View.  It would be a case of HOW/WHEN would they had been Infected by such Organisms?

However with the Neomorph's it shows us the Pathogen has a way to Infect someone and cause a Organism to Gestate inside, and then Tear itself from inside a Host.. which makes for a more Viable Explanation of the Chest Busted Engineers in Cryo-sleep.

We have to remember at the Time of Prometheus the intention was to Indicate that the Pathogen and Experiments include the Mural are indications of Horrors that likely Pre-Date the Xenomorph.   Back prior to Alien Covenant we had Ridley Scott say that the Derelict was infected by something that had Evolved in the Cargo Hold and go to the Pilot and this Happened within a Few Hundred years of the Outbreak on LV-223 which if we Consider what we was being shown, means that likely the Derelict at that time had something that Evolved in the Cargo Hold after the Outbreak.

So in Context to the Juggernaught then some Organism could have resulted from the Outbreak, if this Happened on the Juggernaught it cant be Ruled out that Similar could Happen to other Cargo Holds.

When we come down to the SURVIVOR... we have to ask was he LUCKY? or did he play some PART in the Outbreak?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPApr-20-2020 6:25 AM

It seems obvious that the suits can't protect them. Kane was attacked through his helmet. It seems reasonable that LV-223 was quarentined and abandoned meaning that everyone was dead (in all the complexes).

I also think there should be a hive somewhere on LV-223 with hibernating xenomorphs . . .

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPApr-20-2020 6:57 AM

A Quarantine and Abandoning of LV-223 sounds likely.

The Space Suits as far as Protection i mean in regards to the Pathogen, but NOT any Organisms that are Created or Evolve from it.  I make that Assumption based on the Complex and Ships being able to Sustain Human Life with NO Masks, and how the Engineers seem to be Engineered to Survive the Hostile Environment of the Surface of LV-223.

Regarding a Hive on LV-223 well thats down to Personal Opinion, it really is Hard to come up with any Evidence to Proof or Disprove such.

The Engineers had Experimented with similar Organisms, the Process of this is OPEN for Debate.  (Alien Engineers offers some insight but is that Canon).

As is the After-Math of the Outbreak, while we can Speculate on the Dead Engineers, it does seem Very Likely that some Organisms had Infected and Chest Busted from the Engineers in Cryo-Sleep...  What Happened to these Organisms is anyone's Guess.

LV-223 is Large, and so if there was some Native Organism the Engineers Experimented on, it would be UNWISE to build your Test Facilities so close to them.... who is to say any Would-Be Organism they Experimented with came from LV-223 also?

We had seen those Worms.... was they Native to LV-223, if NOT then they had been brought to LV-223 prior to the Prometheus and IF there was a Outbreak in the Past, then we cant RULE-OUT if those Worms had been infected in the Past too.

So we really cant tell what became of anything relating to those Experiments on LV-223, they could be Destroyed, they could be Unleashed somewhere or Stored Somewhere or even Roaming Free on LV-223?  We can only Speculate.

What is interesting is the AFTER-MATH of the Outbreak in 2093!

What became of the Deacon?

What became of the Hammerpedes (we saw more than TWO Worms in the Room with the Leaking Urns/Vases

Now this is a little OFF TOPIC... but i guess they are results of the Bio-Weapon, and we on Planet 4 the Dead Engineers are NOT the only result of the Bio-Weapon either.

So a World that has been Infected can Produce some Horrors... beyond Xenomorphs.  The ONE thing we do see from the Xenomorphs is a Natural Instinct for Procreation and so i think its Interesting to Speculate on IF/HOW would the Hammerpede and Deacon Procreate.

What would anyone who Returns to LV-223 Discover?

I think if we are to THROW OUT the Prequels or Especially in regards to  Alien Covenant, then we can Speculate on a bit more...

But Regardless there is Scope for Horrors that are similar to the Xenomorph, and from what i have Studied with the Franchise, i think the Horrors that we have seen have come from a Common Ancestor... where the Pathogen/Creation Tool has been used on something ELSE to Create a whole matter of Horrors of which the Xenomorph is a Eventual Outcome.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPApr-20-2020 7:56 AM

Well, it's interesting what they wanted us to imagine, isn't it? They find a heap of dead bodies with chestholes, and cryopods with dead bodies with chestholes and they also find a skin which has been shredded. Where have we seen this before? I think they have dabbled with chemistry and tested on humans/engineers and guess what they came up with . . .

The common ancestor is an interesting and frightening concept . . .

chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPApr-20-2020 11:59 PM

It's also interesting that the pathogen can change from one movie to the next. In Prometheus, the pathogen is not airborn (David says to Weyland that he can remove the helmet). Wheras in Covenant the pathogen reacts with air and spreads like a cloud.

hox

FacehuggerMember453 XPApr-22-2020 7:55 AM

@BigDave, "I can see a Accidental Spillage/Outbreak infect a CertainNumber of Engineers, but i find it unlikely as to HOW it would get to other Complexes."

I would say infected worms would be an easy vector for moving the infection between complexes.

Something that bothers me in respect of there being "an outbreak" on LV-223 is that within a short period of opening the Head Chamber, the urns went all loopy and started spewing black goo all over the place. Placing a large assortment of urns around the Head statue like this is/was clearly a very dangerous thing to do, so what purpose does that serve? Was it a trap? If so, it's a very effective one. But it hardly resonates with the facility being an outpost built for the express purpose of building a bio-weapon, unless its purpose was to prevent any inquisitive visitors taking the bioweapon off-planet.

Was it a tomb meant to be sealed for all time, like Egyptian burial chambers stuffed full of afterlife goodies? Probably not, because David figured out pretty quickly how to open the door, and the door wasn't hidden in the first place.

Or something else?

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPApr-23-2020 4:50 AM

@Chli

Firstly indeed we could look at the Engineers Bodies and be led to ASSUME this is a Xenomorph or Similar Outbreak and you would NOT be incorrect in being Drawn to that Conclusion.   A thing to remember is that Prometheus had began Production at the Time that Lindeloff came in to Re-Write the Story.. so some of the Props may have either been Worked on, or decided to keep the Designs for Prometheus.

By that in Alien Engineers, indeed some of the Engineer Bodies had died from Chest Busters and other from Wounds by the Xenomorphs.

The Props where Hollow which makes them Lighter to Carrier about and Produce.... but then this also FITS with Prometheus and the Pathogen and what we had seen from the Comments by Dr Shaw, the Exploding Head and Sacrificial Engineer, to then look at the Space Suits containing the Violent Reaction of the Black Goo that broken down the Engineers Molecular Structure and would Eventually then Explode from out of the Space Suit.

The Shredded Skin was Ambiguous it could indicate the Worms changing to the Hammerpedes, but its also open to Debate about it being the Skin of some other Horror that had been released on the Outpost in the Past ;)

Regarding the Pathogen Changes.... well we did get that Viral Data Sheet about the Black Goo that kind of contradicted Prometheus and indicated it was Airborne.

Things also get Changed from Movie to Movie sometimes without taking a lot of the previous Movie into Consideration.

I can only Speculate that the Bio-Weapon is like a Atomic Bomb, in that inside are Multiple Components that when they are Activated in a Certain way leads to the Atomic Blast, and so on Planet 4 we see the FULL EFFECT of the Intended Atomic Weapon if you would.... but on LV-223 what we got was a Leak of the Radioactive Material

So its like LV-223 was like a Fukushima and Planet 4 like Hiroshima

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPApr-23-2020 5:17 AM

@Hox

Indeed i find it Interesting to HOW those Urns became Activated, when we look at the Movie it seems the Engineers had attempted to RUN to this Room, so does this Room offer some Sanctuary from Infection, seem ODD as there are Loads of the Urns in the Room.

However the Engineers Head seemed intact, Long Dead but well Preserved, yet the Space Suit was Hollow!

The Device that Dr Shaw and Dr Ford used on the Head would Trick the Head to become Alive again... we then saw that the Head Started to Change (its Cells were Changing) and then it Exploded....

Now the Complex was Terra-formed so it could Support Life and Cleaner than Earths.... (Oxygen etc) yet our Engineers wore those Suits which they never needed OUTSIDE...

So we have to then look at what is Different Between the Engineers and the Humans.... and i would SUSPECT that the Removal of the Helmets that allowed the Humans to Breath and then Exhale is WHAT likely effected the Room and Urns... if this Assumption is Correct then it would give Good Reason to WHY the Engineers wore those Space Jockey Suits.

Going back to the Head, the Engineer would soon had Died after being Decapitated and so his Respiratory System would NOT be Active and thus NOT effect the Room... and the Infection seemed Halted in the Head and so its LIKELY the Rooms Environment Conditions would keep the Urns from Leaking!

There are Inconsistencies but this is mainly due to those working on the Movie not Considering some Conflicts... that being the URNS on the Juggernaught, we can only assume they are Loaded in Somewhat that Prevents them from being Activated as per in the Big Head Room (that got affected).

As FAR as a TRAP!

Who knows, call it a Trap or a Safeguard we cant rule that out...

It comes down to the Star-Maps they WAS NOT a Invitation, some Speculate it was a Deliberate Trap i am not sure on that, surely it is some Safeguard but you would also be WISE to assign some kind of Sensor Alarm for Intruders and some Guards to awaken if someone Stumbled on the Outpost?.

But our Engineer was still FAST ASLEEP... how long would he had remained if David had not Operated the Buttons on his Cryo-Pod?

We maybe have to look at the other Outposts... we can only Speculate to what Condition they are in..... we have to look at a Few Things from Prometheus.

Clearly Dr Shaw was heading towards one of the other Outposts to Obtain a Juggernaught, where as the Outpost they had Visited was Closer... do we ASSUME that Each Outpost has ONLY the ONE Hangar or Ship?  Maybe that Outpost had MORE ships that had Taken Off?

We have to ASSUME the Outpost Hanger from where they took the Juggernaught from had NO Engineers on the Ship, so if the Outpost has ONE Ship, and this Ship had NO Engineers then this makes Sense... IF the Outposts have more than ONE Ship then surely would Dr Shaw not want to Awaken any Engineers if some Ships had the in Cryo-Sleep so its a Quicker way to get her Answers... or does she think going to their Home-world where they are in Greater Number would allow her more chance of NOT getting her Head Pulled Off?

So i would assume either the other Outpost had ONLY the One Ship (No Engineers) or that other Ships around that Outpost had No Engineers.

So we have to Wonder IF and WHY there was just ONE Engineer remaining... and IF any Ships had Left at the Time During/After the Outbreak

We can but Speculate....  IF however the Last Engineer was a Saboteur.... (or part of a Group of them) they could have Contaminated some Water or Similar, and then Gathered the Engineers for a TOAST to their Mission, a Tainted Toast at that... MUD IN YOUR EYE!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPApr-23-2020 12:07 PM

Well, the pathogen, or rather mutagen, reacts when the sealed door is opened. It could be either because there is a vacuum in the chamber (which would explain why the Engineer head doesn’t rot) or it reacts on microbes from the human bodies. The latter makes you associate with the xenomorph egg which reacts when a life form is close by. However, that the mutagen reacts when the door is open, doesn't mean it can spread through the air which David tells Weyland that it can’t (because he knows how it spread to Holloway).

Why did the Engineer head explode? There are a number of possibilities, I suppose. Firstly, it was subjected to a current which, they hoped, would sort of bring it to life. Perhaps it became overheated and therefore exploded?

On the other hand, the skin on the head seemed to mutate suggesting that it had been exposed to the mutagen (but why would it explode?) But how could it? The running Engineers had their suits and helmets on. Wouldn’t they be protected? It also seemed that they were running from a creature (the scream) rather than from a mutagenic cloud? Or were they running from terrorists? Or perhaps they were the terrorists?

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPApr-25-2020 3:07 PM

I think Certainly the Room could have been Vacuum Sealed

I would also NOT rule out the Human Prometheus Crew with NO Helmets having a effect on the Environment, something we Exhale during our Respirator Process, which could give a Good Reason for the Space Jockey Suits too.

The Engineer Head went through some Changes, it seemed the Synapse Stabilizer had brought some Activity to the Head which then made the Pathogen/Mutagen become Active in the Cells, the Result seemed like a Accelerated Process before it Exploded... the Head also only Exploded after they attempted to Quarantine it and Spray it so maybe that played a Part in the Explosion?  I would assume the Engineers went through like a Accelerated Process of Holloways where eventually they maybe broke down like the Sacrificial Engineer but being contained in a Suit this caused a Build Up/Pressure of the Chemical Reaction and it Exploded from the Suits. With Holloway getting himself Torched before the Effects Advanced.

when it comes down to the Running Engineers, well who knows how many were Infected... and those who are could have been Infected prior and been Unaware..... especially if INDEED they had a SPIKED Drink or their Oxygen Supply in their Suits was Infected as a act of Sabotage/Terrorism.

We did hear that Screech as the Hologram was Activated, which did SOUND  bit like the Deacon at the End... so we cant rule that out....... but it could be a case of making such things so that it gives us that Ambiguity so we cant really come to a Water Tight Conclusion... which if that the Case it is in Part Genius as it means Endless Debates, but on the other such Ambiguity and Conflicting Clues can be Frustrating.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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