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The Daniels Dilema

The Daniels Dilema

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BigDave

Sep-24-2019 4:33 PM

A while back (May 2018) i had thought of and wrote a Prologue like the Crossing, a Short Prologue of sorts.

I had the IDEA when considering the Dilemma with Daniels, as she is FULLY AWARE of who David is... and so this would be a Problem as far as HOW does a Sequel Continue?

If David would try and PASS OFF as our Friendly Walter, to the Colonist and Tennessee then Daniels would be a Thorn in Davids Side... as she would Reveal who he is!

So i thought... how do we DEAL with that? Kill Her? or have her HELD UP some place where David would come back and forth, where she is a Prisoner, but WHAT KIND of a Prison would he USE?

So i got thinking about the Scene in Trailer, the Take Me Home one, which the Screen Shot is the Topics Banner.  We had discussed this Scene before and TRY and figure how it Fitted.. to NO AVAIL!

So i thought about the Problem she poses to David, and also how the LAST THING she asked him was about a Cabin on the Lake...

And i thought what if David decided to NOT ruin her Dream of that Cabin on a Lake!

So we had Daniels Awaken in her Covenant Ship Cabin, it was Dark, we could see STARS outside, she was Confused... did she DREAM the Horrors of Planet 4, surely NOT, had she Dreamed of those that happened after on the Covenant? 

She is disorientated, confused she goes to look out the Window and then we see Walter in the Door Way to her Room, she looks at him and says "what have you done David"...  he says "i am sorry you have had a troublesome time"

He goes to Comfort her and touch her, and she pushes him back.... "bastard, what have you done, where am i"  We then see the Android talk back "Calm down its me Walter"

We have a set of Dialog where he tries to Convince her... she starts to Accept his Answers, then walks to Window and Notices she is Staring out to a Lake...

She realizes she is not Dreaming, and that maybe those Horrors on the Covenant are NOT a Dream either.   she pushes Walter for Answers... where ARE WE!

He said we are where you WANT TO BE... by the Lake... she looks out the Window... its becoming Dawn!

She asks "what do you mean? are we at Origae-6, what have you done to the Colonist"  he says they are all Fine and Well....   she is then like "dont F%$& with me David what have you done with them" he replies back and says "calm down i am Walter i am here to Help", he pulls out a Syringe, he says "this will help you to calm down you have had a Traumatic Time but your Safe Now"

She says Prove he is Walter and she asks him a Question....  right there its Check Mate... she knocks the Syringe and as he goes to pick it up she hits him with a Hard Object and makes a Rush for the Door.

As the Door Opens she Stumbled Outside, she looks around and NOTICES that this Place is Familiar...  it dawns on her.... they are NOT on Origae-6 at all.

She turns around and sees David, he Grabs her and throws her to the Floor... she Screams and Kicks... and she asks what has he done with the Covenant.  He replies and says the Covenant is Safe, and that they will be heading to Origae-6...  she is Dismayed and tries to Fight her way up...

She asks WHY as he come back to this Place.... and he Informs her that he Thought it was only right that he would give her that Cabin on a Lake, and that Oram was Correct that this World is Far more a Paradise than Oriage-6 would be...   She would ask HOW does he know, and he would say its what the Projections are, you Vetted that Place and then Discovered this World.. my Paradise.

He goes on to say he Washed this World Clean for Dr Shaw so they could have Started a New Eden.. but she Refused, and without her then this place is NO LONGER  a Paradise for him...

But at least she has a Chance to be Reunited with her Love,  She would say your Crazy Jacob is Dead...  but he would say "NO i mean Walter, i thought i would Reunite you both"  He would Continue "i know my brother Loves you, he is waiting for you, he is head over heals in Love with you... or so it seemed to me"

She tries to Escape but he grabs her by the Leg and Injects her with the Syringe...  he tosses her to on her back.... she says to him "what the F%&* are you going to do with my Ship and those Colonist"

He Replies back to her... "i am taking them to Start Anew, to go to a New Eden, to Create a Paradise for them....  but alas its not a Paradise as this Place... but it soon could be, Evolution needs a Helping hand but First i Needed a Few Supplies"

She Screams at him.... the Screams Fall to Silence as she Passes Out...

We then Cut to a Scene of him Placing her in the Bed in the Cabin, and he Kisses her on the Head....  "Sweet Dreams"

We then see him Turn on the Record Player, as the John Denver Song Country Roads comes on...  he leaves and we see him heading towards the Cargo Lander.

We Fade to Black.....

Then we see a Scene of the Giant Head Statues, from a POV of something Low, we Gaze at a few, what Majesty then the Camera Pans to give us whose Eyes we are seeing this through...

And we are Looking at a Head.... Walters Head!

Fade to Black..... TITLE.... Awakening.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

28 Responses to The Daniels Dilema

BigDave

Sep-24-2019 4:38 PM

That was the Basically as i remember how i wrote it, i lost it as i did it on a Phone and the Phone Died lol

It was to give a Crossing like Prologue... a way to get rid of Daniels as a Thorn in Davids Side.... and leave us to Ponder what is NEXT for Daniels?

Would she risk going to the Temple Complex?  Would she Discover Walter?

I think also we have to Remember if the Engineers Return then HOW are they going to Discover where it is that David would be going..... and discovering a Walter and a Daniels would provide them Answers....

HOW do they CommunicateEasy David could have Translated Engineer to English and put this on Paper, so that he could maybe then Teach Dr Shaw..... had she NOT had Rejected his Proposal.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Gavin

Sep-24-2019 10:35 PM

In all honesty, I don't think Katherine Waterston or Danny McBride will reprise their roles in Alien: Awakening.

I feel this is the case, in part because of how Noomi Rapace's character was cast aside, but also because I feel that for the characters of Daniels and Tennessee, their character arcs are as good as complete, with very few channels of development beyond what we have already seen of these characters in Alien: Covenant.

ignorantGuy

Sep-25-2019 7:17 AM

@Gavin Rapace was killed off when TOM ROTHMAN was outed from the position of chairman at Fox and new people wanted to make a name for themselves. Did the leadership of Fox change after the merger? I don't know but if they remained those could have a chance. If no I am doubtful as even Fastbender would remain as they tried to make him the lead of many franchises and they failed without an exception.

As old franchises go nowadays I think that bringing back Weaver is more likely, but I don't know who among the fans would like that,

"their character arcs are as good as complete", what arcs? They finish as they started...

BigDave

Sep-25-2019 7:38 AM

Well what i proposed was just some Fan Fiction, something like this as a Released Short Story (Novel) could work to TIE UP what would happen with Daniels.

Because there are a Number of Problems with a Continuation... due to the Ending.... had Daniels not been aware of WHO that Walter really is, then in a Sequel we could have that Shocking Discovery closing the 1st Act (3rd) of the Movie.

I think seeing them all go to Origae-6 and begin to Build that Colony, awakening a Few Colonist and seeing the First few say Log Cabins Constructed where we can then see Daniels is Finally at Peace, she sits across the Lake with Walter.... Finally the Dream they all had of a New Start is underway....

To then have her make a Discovery that it is David and he has some Ulterior Motif would then make the Impact of the Twist for her more Horrific to a extent, the Problem is WE the Viewer would already know who he was...

But with Daniels already knowing who he is, really has painted the Plot into a Corner.... he cant go around and Masquerade as Walter with Daniels around, she has to Disappear, but then surely Tennessee could get Suspicious and maybe David would have to get rid of HIM... so then your left with HOW does Walter explain to the Colonist that EVERYONE of the Ships Crew whose job it was to get them to Origae-6 Safely... how does he explain WHY they are GONE?

The other Problem is as a Character there was not much to Daniels, its hard to see how you can elevate her now.. with Dr Shaw there was Potential depending on HOW they would tackle her Arc after Prometheus. This is because the Sequel was set up to go and MEET these would be Gods for Answer, and it was Dr Shaw who was driving this Venture because she did-not want to go back Home...  so she would have been the Proxy/Anchor Point for how those Answers get Presented to her, and surely they would not be Revelations that would Appease her and her Faith she Clutches too.... and so Revelations really could Crush her Faith and make for a Interesting Arc Change.

With Daniels, she just wants to get to Origae-6 to Build a Cabin.... so her Character was Limited and having her DIE would make NO Impact to where the Plot would go.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Sep-27-2019 4:30 PM

I'm with Gavin on this one.

I really don't care about Tee and Daniels.

They both feel cut in half after losing their spouse and I really don't want to watch them finding new ones.

 

I'd care about Daniels...If David uses her to create a biomechanical being and she ends up shredding him(and the crew).

 

BigDave

Sep-27-2019 5:48 PM

Well Katherine had indicated she had heard they planned some INTERESTING things for her.... but then she did also say she could just as easily end up in a Body Bag (or similar).

So i think she was aware of some of the Plans, and so it could be that she would have had a ROLE to play, but then she also then points out that she could just as easily be KILLED OFF....  this is a Acknowledgement that things can Change by the Time any Sequel gets made.

So she is hinted towards what happened with Rapace, as she appeared to be SET UP to play a Important Role in the Sequel to Prometheus, but by the Time ONE had got the Go Ahead... she was KILLED OFF.... so Waterston is just indicating that Nothing is Set in Stone as far as her Characters Future.

A Set Up from the Advent was that all David has to do NOW is Perfect his Queen.  And Fans will Automatically think that David will Create a Queen... maybe a Literal One.. but they may be VERY Mistaken.

David also said to Daniels he will do to her what he did to Dr Shaw... and some Speculate that is to RAPE her as he did then TRY and kiss Daniels..

We see NO Evidence he Raped Dr Shaw, we can only go by what he attempted to do to Daniels after he said to her he will do the same with her as he did to Dr Shaw. (thats not to say he never tried to be Sexual with her though).

What we do see that had happened to Dr Shaw was she was Mutilated and its Indicated that she had Performed a Great Role in HOW it was that David managed to Perfect his Xenomorph Eggs.

His Drawings, well some indicate different things that he had done or Dreamed of doing to Dr Shaw.. these seem to indicate her being Evolved into something more than Human and Birthing Xenomorphs.

It seems that Dr Shaws Reproductive Cells/Organs had been used in Davids Experiments.

We only have to cast our minds back to Prometheus, and imagine if David wanted to know what would have became of Dr Shaws Fetus?

And so we can Imagine he could want to Replicate the Experiment...  which really leaves us with 3 Ways that she became Pregnant.

1) Holloways Infected Sperm would Infect/Fertilize her Egg Cell.

2) The Pathogen (or worms from in it) would Infect/Fertilize her Egg Cell.

2) The Pathogen (or worms from in it) would use her Womb to Gestate.

What we see in Prometheus is she Survived... and so IF David knew HOW she was infected, he could say if he had the Med-Pod, he could Infect her Again, and Remove the Fetus, and Repeat this a Number of Times before she Finally Dies!

So she was the MOTHER to the Trilobite that would then Implant a Deacon Embryo.

With Dr Shaw if her Egg Cells are what was the Basis for those Ovomorph's then she would be kind of a Queen, well the MOTHER to those Eggs.

And so INDEED i think this would be in Part what Davids plan is, to USE her (Daniels) to Produce/Perfect the Creation of Eggs...

Maybe he could EVOLVE her..

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

NTFS

Sep-28-2019 1:43 AM

Daniels is FULLY AWARE of who David is...

HOW does a Sequel Continue?

Answer: David will trick the people.

 

- David(+Walter) will wake up the crew according to plan when they arrive at Origae-6.
- Daniels will start a tirade against David, because he attacked her before.
- Tennessee and the others decide to replace the memory bank of the android. This is a hardware replacement, which requires a simple surgery.
- They cut open David and replace the memory module. Both Daniels and Tennessee are in the room during the operation. The surgeon gives David's memory bank to Tennessee who puts it into his pocket. Tennessee goes to an airlock, throws the module into it and lets the vacuum suck it out from the ship. David's memory module disappears in the endless space.
- From this moment the android will be referred as Robert. They will fix Robert's hand as well.

 

The story continues ... and the humans will get into trouble on Origae-6.

 

- David anticipated the memory replacement and he has created a backup of his own self and hid the memory on the ship.
- He has also left some clues for his later self where to find the module. (Mother informs Robert that someone has sent him a message. Who sent the message? An android with the same serial number. That is interesting.)
- Robert finds the memory module, cuts himself open in a rather crude manner and installs the backup memory into his body. 
- From that moment the android will be David (+Walter+Robert) again.
- Daniels and the others will not have the slightest clue that David(+Walter+Robert) is back. Except David innocently smiles at Daniels once...

 

The story continues with David...

 

An android performing a surgery on himself... Is not that cool?

 

Katherine Waterston and Danny McBride are good actors. It is not a good thing to waste them because the scriptwriter temporarily ran out of ideas.

* Silence Means Security *

MonsterZero

Sep-28-2019 8:10 AM

- David(Walter) will wake up the crew according to plan when they arrive at Origae-6.

 

I just don't see David waking any crew members. He may wake one or two after he's infected them? But I don't envision David washing anyone's feet again.

David might as well remove the crew's hands and feet...So they'll give him trouble. He is only using the humans as nutrient sacks anyway. Why allow them to push buttons our pick up weapons?

BUT...I could imagine MUTHUR trapping him in a airlock or section of the Covenant(if she determines he's a threat), then waking the crew herself?......But David has probably disabled her higher functions. 

NTFS

Sep-28-2019 8:21 AM

I just don't see David waking any crew members. 

David seemed to be interested in the colonizing mission.

* Silence Means Security *

MonsterZero

Sep-28-2019 9:24 AM

A colony of his creations! 

But you're probably right. He may need the humans so he can gloat over them...... show them his brilliance! 

David "Bow before your master!"

BigDave

Sep-29-2019 7:23 AM

I think something to remember is that Daniels is a Problem for David, he cant allow her to Interact with the other Colonist, if she Disappears then Tennessee may become Suspicious 

But i am not so sure they would just KILL her off, i think we see that David is Sadistic and he would likely Enjoy the Fact that he is in CONTROL and i would bet he would like to Interact with Daniels and keep her Captive.

We know David does-not have a High Opinion of Mankind and a thing to look at is that HOW he was treated by Mankind is via their Upbringing and Knowledge where they view him as just a MACHINE.

A Baby is Born Innocent and its their Upbringing that would SHAPE what kind of a Person they would become and HOW they would look at certain things and view David or treat him.

I would Suspect that David would have NO use for the Colonist apart from having them SET-UP a Basic Colony, from where David could then take them out... and then Raise those Human Embryo's maybe he would Engineer them?

I think he would KEEP our Daniels Alive so she can Witness what he has done, i think that could prove to be a Downfall for him.

I think it really depends on Davids Agenda and Actions, as he could just as Easily kill Daniels and Tennessee he would have NO use for them, he could FIX the records on the Computer and give what ever Excuse he wants to the Colonist that he Awakens.

If we assume he wants to Create Xenomorphs, then i think he would use Daniels to Extract her Egg Cells to use to Produce more Xenomorph Eggs or Face Huggers, and then use the Adult Colonist as HOSTS.

It would be Horrific for Daniels to discover that she is in effect being the MOTHER to the Horrors that David is UNLEASHING.

This assumes this would be Davids main Agenda.

@NTFS

I think thats interesting but also a bit Complex, i think sure when the Colonist are awake and IF they discover who David really is... then they would want to Incapacitate him....

The Covenant Ship would likely have Walter Spare Parts, are their enough to Construct a New Body and Head?  Are these Parts Compatible with David?  or is David already in Walters Body?

so what i am saying is that would they need David? and so can they Build another Walter?

If they need the Body that David has then they would try and WIPE his Mind Clean.... if they dont then they just build another Walter...

But a KEY THING is that it would be likely that David has Uploaded himself to the SHIP Computer and so he could Download himself back into another Walter that the Colonist would Build or back into his Body after they FACTORY RESET.

And so i think such a Plot would be Highly Likely, and so i like what your saying as in they would think they have Eradicated David....   only to at a latter point, we see that MUTHUR who is now David, just Uploads himself into the Walter they are using...

So they would be Totally Unaware.... i think something like this could work... it would then give us NO reason to have Daniels or Tennessee to be Killed Off and would bring in more SHOCK when Daniels latter discovers some Horrific Experiments on the Colonist and then REALIZES that David is still around.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

NTFS

Sep-29-2019 11:21 AM

The surgical removal of David from the android is much more drastic, brutal and merciless than the upload/reset/download scenario.

It also would look much more spectacular in the movie. 

Imagine the android cutting himself with a scalpel, opening the wound and rummaging in his own body in order to find the memory bank, which he wants to replace. The android could have "blood" with maroon color.

 

The memory bank could look similar to this device. It must be a pluggable equipment.

 

* Silence Means Security *

Thoughts_Dreams

Dec-29-2019 11:38 AM

Sorry for bumping this thread but I have not been here for a while. I am not very interested in Daniels since I never understood what her personality was. Maybe she did not get enough screen-time or she was not well-written.

Maybe she could be in it by have a smaller role compared to Covenant because killing off the main character two movies in a row would seem bad I think even though she is not that great.

"If David would try and PASS OFF as our Friendly Walter, to the Colonist and Tennessee then Daniels would be a Thorn in Davids Side... as she would Reveal who he is!"

Yeah but that is assuming that the movie would be all about David, and I do not want that, not one bit. They tried that in AC and look where that got us. The franchise is almost sinking because of it. Even the shorts if we take them for what they are, are better than Covenant.

BigDave

Jan-02-2020 2:48 PM

Well they could attempt to FIX her Character rather than PULL THE PLUG like they did with Dr Shaw... they would have to ask HOW does she play a PART in a Sequel, what are the Plans and Screen Time.

The only way that would work and NOT be a Conflict to David's Plans would be if he KEEPS her some Place, while he CHARADES around as Walter to the other Colonist.

And a Escaping Daniels or a discovery is when David's Charade is UP....then he has to RESORT to Extreme Measures to Clean Up the Mess.... or Silence those who Discover his Secret before they can Inform everyone else.

Otherwise she would have to be KILLED OFF or we have a Movie that Revolves around Daniels and David... which is the same Dilemma they faced with a Movie about David and Dr Shaw.

I dont think either would appeal to the Fans and so as i have said a number of Times we are better off getting a Sequel that would BY-PASS what David does between leaving Planet 4 and when another group of Humans would be arriving at Origae-6.. 

Much like how Alien Covenant had BYPASSED what happened since Dr Shaw and David had left LV-223 until the Arrival of the Covenant Ship.

The Problem we have could be a Repeat of Alien Covenant, in that we would KILL OFF a Main Character Off-Screen (Dr Shaw/Daniels).  And then to not Expand on the Persons Responsible for Horrors of the previous Movie (Engineers/David respectfully).

So then your introducing a NEW set of Characters who will arrive at say Origae-6 and discover Horrors and Davids Life-less Body.... so he gets  a Cameo like Bishop did in Alien 3.

Its then a case of HOW MANY of these New characters Survive the Next Installment, and do they make it to another Movie and HOW MANY more Movies until we get to ALIEN?

This is WHY they are in a Pickle at the Moment.... and i dont think we would get any Conclusion... more chance of a REBOOT in 2029

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Jan-19-2020 3:46 AM

BD

That would be a lot to fix, so much so I think that they need to totally rebuild her and if so I think that it is better to get an entirely new character or at least make better ones. She could have the screen time of Faris and have her as maybe they did with Faris (which I think was a better character now when I think of it), like a smaller role. Speaking of Faris she is the result why I now find three characters that are alright in AC

• Faris
• Oram
• Walter
• Maybe David as a counter-part to Walter but David was still a shit head

They should have kept Faris in the movie for a longer time.

As far as we know she could as well be dead by the new movie if we get another if we look at how AC ended.

He might keep her locked away and then she escapes. That is a way to keep her in the movie but I have no interest for that character the way that she is written now. She is less annoying than Shaw but I can not tell how she is as a human.

"... or we have a Movie that Revolves around Daniels and David."

Hell no, I refuse to have it centered around David, no way. That is one of the reasons why I do not like Covenant that much. Daniels did not work for me, maybe because of bad writers.

"… a Sequel that would BY-PASS what David does between leaving Planet 4 and when another group of Humans would be arriving at Origae-6.."

That could work, the question is how they will build human characters. Having a movie where they fail with that again would be very bad. I do not have much doubts in their ability to come up with a story or to make interesting sets but I very much doubt about their ability to get writers that can make characters. Star wars usually get characters right so maybe some of them can make it? Look at 7-9, they are alright for what they are it is just that they should have had more of Luke. The X-men movie usually get the characters right also at least those that I have watched (X men one and two).

They do not need to kill off Daniels but to make her character better or to reduce her role. As far as David is concerned he does not need to be given the end of Bishop, they just need to have him in a much lesser role compared to AC where the second half of the movie was all about him.

"Its then a case of HOW MANY of these New characters Survive the Next Installment, and do they make it to another Movie and HOW MANY more Movies until we get to ALIEN?"

I don't know, as long as they are sympathetic and well-written then the numbers do not matter to me. If we look at how disappointing the prequels have been this far then I very much doubt that we will get more than one until we will get to Alien in the time-line.

".... and i dont think we would get any Conclusion... more chance of a REBOOT in 2029."

Maybe, but I can not say that it would make me disappointed if that would be the case. The prequels have been mishandled since early in the process when they decided to leave out a lot of interesting stuff in Prometheus. I am not sure if that is about run-time and how much they can show it in the movie-theaters and that kind of thing but it makes the movies worse compared to what they could be.

ali81

Jan-19-2020 5:54 PM

for me this is just another indication of how royally they have messed this trilogy up. when we left Prometheus, they had dozens of routes to take. we all speculated multiple avenues and things wed love to see in the sequel but now, its an utter mess. worst of all, its all down to an android which for me ruins the wonder of the whole derelict scene in alien.

as far as the awful Daniels character (for me the single worst main character in either alien or predator franchise), she has to be alive in some form unfortunately (tho someone else could be cast to play the character). we have already had the un-seen, poorly explained fate of Shaw and to do the same or something similar for Daniels' fate would just be lazy and show a lack of originality so we have to get the character at least alive but maybe not whole. id like to see the morphing method return and have Daniels be in a state of morphing which I think would be a more fitting end to that character. at least that would be a level of contribution to the story.

ignorantGuy

Jan-20-2020 11:49 AM

ali81 Look you can't introduce main players in the last movie of the trilogy without them ever being mentioned before. That is so stupid. Just look to how the Rise of Skywalker went down.

Shaw was killed because of the change of corporate leadership at Fox, now with Disney knows what screw up will they offer on plate for people to serve.

BigDave

Jan-20-2020 2:34 PM

"Look you can't introduce main players in the last movie of the trilogy without them ever being mentioned before"

I think thats a Great Point ;)  sometimes you can get away with it, but most of the times its not a wise way to go...

I have mentioned this as FAR as how do we Continue?

We have to assume the Plan would be to FOLLOW the Covenant Ship which means that David would have to be Considered a Main Character, and so if we are looking at a Sequel that Continues from Alien Covenant and so its about the COVENANT SHIP then you have to take the Story Forwards from that.

So we are left with Daniels and Tennessee as far as WHO we are Familiar with, there are Thousands of Colonist and its a case of do we see some of them become Main Characters?

If we had  Alternative Ending where WALTER is indeed the Survivor and DAVID is Dead....  then what we would have is Daniels and Tennessee revealed after KILLING off the Xenomorph and their NEXT course of Action would be to go to Oriage-6 and Put the NIGHTMARE of what Happened in the Past and we should see them LAND on Origae-6 and then begin to Set-Up the Colony.

But we know that WALTER did not make it and so DAVID is in Control of the Ship and the PLOT is at the Mercy of what he wishes to do NEXT.

The DILEMMA they have is the reveal that Daniels Discovers who David is at the END of the Movie, and while this was done to HELP us to Gauge the Horror that she would FEEL on making this Discovery and being Helpless to do anything about it.

If Davids plan is to awaken the Colonist and Experiment on them ONE at a TIME then what Daniels knows makes NO Difference...  what kind of a Movie does that make? and how would she play a ROLE?  to be shown that she Escapes and Awakens the others (Survivors) and WARNS them of David?

But of David is going to go to Origae-6 and allow the Colonist to begin to BUILD their Colony, then David surely cant led Daniels survive... or at least let come into contact with the Colonist....  But such a Plot could WORK if we have Daniels being kept Hidden and the Discovery/Escape of her would ALERT the Colonist to WHO the Android on the Ship really is..

The BIGGER Problem seems to be Fans are not interested in a Movie about David again... but how can you have a Movie where he is KILLED off Early or prior to the Movie, and then Continue?  With Daniels and Tennessee as Characters to then take us to do what they want NEXT?  There would have to be some DANGER and this would come from David!

So you would have to CARRY those Characters Over, or at least TWO of them.... which ONE has to be David....

UNLESS.... we do a Aftermath Movie....

But as you say ignorantguy this could mean introducing completely NEW characters... which would NOT really work if we have just ONE more Movie or if we have a Movie that also BOMBS that leaves NO Continuation...

What a PICKLE we are in :(

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-20-2020 3:09 PM

I think we have to accept that the PREQUEL route had Changed with Alien Covenant in that this Movie was to STEER us to the Back Door of ALIEN.

Ridley Scott had indicated to us that there would be at LEAST another TWO Movies before we arrive at ALIEN.

We are like 17.5 Years before the Nostromo arrives at LV-426 and as of 17.5 Years prior then it would seem there are NO EGGS or Derelict on LV-426.

They could ABANDON the Sequel and NOT explore what becomes of the Covenant....   But what kind of Movie do they give us then?

A Mission to LV-223, a Mission to LV-426 a Mission to Planet 4 and all where they could reveal the Xenomorph was Ancient?

You would have to introduce us to NEW Characters, and so its a case of if we ABANDON the Covenant/David and go for a Movie like above...  what would be the PAY OFF for just ONE Movie where we introduce NEW Characters?  The only PAY OFF would be purely to U-TURN and show the Derelict/Xenomorph was on LV-426 for Thousands of Years..

Which puts the  Efforts of the Prequels prior as a WASTE of Time!

The Intention was to Continue with what a Happens to the Covenant Next, which then brings us to that Daniels Dilemma!

Can you continue with just Tennessee as the Surviving Character and the Colonist as soon as the OPENING Title has Ended?

So it is a PICKLE.... we have to ACCEPT that it would be down to David's Agenda as FAR as what happens NEXT.

With RS indicating that the Movie would NOT be about Xenomorphs... (that does not mean it wont have any) but that it would mainly be about WHAT KIND of World he would want to BUILD.

So if he is NOT just going to use the Colonist to FARM many many Xenomorphs.... then its a case of WHAT is he going to be up to? 

I think looking into the Themes behind Alien Covenant and Prometheus its clear to see that Sub-Creation is the KEY element, and so it likely would be WHAT would David try to Create Next.

Katherine Waterstone did here that there was some INTERESTING things in store for her Character... but she also admitted that she could just as much end up in a BODY BAG.   So it would seem those Characters would have played quite a ROLE in the Next Installment...

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ingeniero

Jan-22-2020 9:42 AM

Daniels had a great part in the Alien: Covenant Origins novel.  While the Covenant was being constructed and filled up with supplies for the trip in Earth orbit, Daniels led a team to track down a terrorist and used advanced technology to counter his intentions.  

Going back to the origins of the Covenant crew in the next segment of film or series would be a great direction in my opinion for Daniels, Jacob, Lope, and Rosenthal at the very least.  

If I had to chose, then we would concentrate on Lope and Rosenthal.  She saves his life right before her job interview in London with him not knowing who he is at the time.

BigDave

Jan-22-2020 4:16 PM

I think while the Characters were Fleshed out better in the Prequel Novel, we have to remember you are NOT really restricted to a 2 Hour Screen Time with a Novel.

It does show that her Character has potential and Waterstone could pull off a more Fleshed Out Character if given the Chance.

With the Daniels Dilemma i am talking about how to Proceed and also in Context to HOW it is that she is aware of who Walter really is..

Daniels and Tennessee are the ONLY surviving Members of the Covenant Crew that we had been Shown...

This does-not mean that some of the Colonist could NOT be related to or Friends with some of the Covenant Crew that were KILLED on Planet 4 and so how would they React to the News that their Loved Ones had Perished and under the Circumstances that they had...

I would assume IF there are Relations/Friends in the Cryo-Pods then the ONLY way they would Find Out what really happened to their Loved Ones would be by Daniels and Tennessee as i would ASSUME that David would Charade as Walter and give a Different Version of Events.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Jan-26-2020 3:19 AM

Ali81

I totally agree that they have made a mess out of it because it could have been so much better. David has become less interesting because of AC, I do not want another more about him. No more rape-y robot movies. Daniels is not a very interesting character, I still try to figure out how she is as a character. She is not well written but they failed with characters in AC in general, as well as with Prometheus. If you would ask any alien fan how Daniels is as a character I bet that they would have a difficult time to come up with an answer. Compared to Shaw she was better because at least Shaw was not annoying.

Thoughts_Dreams

Jan-26-2020 3:20 AM


BD

Not sure if I am that interested in the Covenant as a thing unless they get some interesting characters. I do not care what David does next. He could play the flute and some instruments like an orchestra and I would not care ("not a simple tune", LMAO!).  

Sorry but I do not want David as a main-character, it is boring and I am tired of it. Not interested in Daniels or Tennessee since none of them have any personality that I can see at least (not like Ripley, 85, Morse, Bishop, or Burke, for example). If someone can explain to me in a way that makes sense of how they are as characters then please try but I can not say that because they are like blank slates, crappy. For example I can tell you how the main characters in Star Wars (original trilogy) are but I could not tell you about most of the characters in AC because they have no personality. Hopefully they can get some of the colonists right, that would not be too much to ask for so they can make up for P and AC.

"The BIGGER Problem seems to be Fans are not interested in a Movie about David again…"

I do not give a single shit about that, sorry if this comes off as harsh but it is my honest opinion. The sooner he dies the better. David is just evil and he is an android, I need to have someone to support.

"UNLESS.... we do a Aftermath Movie.…"

They could have him like Bishop in Alien 3. You speak about new characters, well they did that in Alien and Alien and that worked you just got to have a writer that knows how to do that and for that you need someone completely new. No one of the writers have been able to do that this far in the prequels at least from how it has been shown on the screen, not sure if the writers alone are to be blamed for it or if Scott also is responsible in some way.

"… means that David would have to be Considered a Main Character…"

No thanks, I do not want a movie like that. They can forget my money if so. Hopefully someone at Disney or whatever they are named will tell them that it is a bad idea and put a stop to the crap that we have now.

I would rather have a Rogue One of the Alien franchise than another robot movie. I am not sure how that would work but it must be better than the prequels, the AVPs, and AR.

"So it is a PICKLE.... we have to ACCEPT that it would be down to David's Agenda as FAR as what happens NEXT."

I will not accept it because. . . it is shit.

". . . would mainly be about WHAT KIND of World he would want to BUILD."

Weeellll I don't care. It would probably in general be a world suited for a robot high on power but probably not much else. Some might find that thing to be interesting but not me.

"So it would seem those Characters would have played quite a ROLE in the Next Installment…"

They are not well-written so I am not very interested unless they give them some personality but that should have been done in Covenant. If you shall make people interested you got to introduce them in a good way where you see how they are as characters but we learned almost nothing of that in a movie that was about 2 hours. Sure you got to have some background characters but even the main one was like that. *sigh*

"Which puts the Efforts of the Prequels prior as a WASTE of Time!"

That would still be a better choice I think, that is just my opinion though.

Ingeniero

Jan-26-2020 4:10 AM

The quotes below were directed to BigDave but please allow me to respond to a few of them.

"I would rather have a Rogue One of the Alien franchise than another robot movie."

That's a great idea Thoughts_Dreams.  

A few of the Alien novels and comics released resemble what I believe you mean by that.  A couple of examples of relatively Android-free, non-Ripley, character-driven pieces are certainly the Alien: Prototype, Alien: River of Pain, and Alien: Echo.  

These quotes shown below from above are very funny (humor, no disrespect).  The part where you can tolerate David in a destroyed Bishop state only ads to how funny the quotes are.

No David!: "Sorry but I do not want David as a main-character, it is boring and I am tired of it."

No David!!: "The sooner he dies the better. David is just evil and he is an android"

No David!!!": "David...Main Character" No thanks, I do not want a movie like that. They can forget my money if so."

 

Alien Independent Story, We need Zorn!

If I were given a choice on what story would be put to film next, them I might choose the Aliens: Advent/Terminus comic.  The character Zorn, a chest-buster survivor, would most likely steal the show.  

From what I could tell, the comic is hard to nail down in the Alien timeline and it could fit as an independent support story much like Rouge One.

 

I cite Alien: Echo above because of the Bishop in Alien 3 reference you mention (broken David in a trash pile is ok, that's a scream).  This novel might be the absolute best combination to what I believe you seek in a new story made to film.  

The story takes part on a new planet that has outlawed synthetics, Xenomorphs spawn from multiple species, and the progressive-futuristic city under the dome meets unanticipated peril.  It's wonderful.

 

BigDave

Jan-27-2020 3:50 PM

"That would still be a better choice I think, that is just my opinion though"

Certainly everyone is Entitled to that and its HARD to please everyone...  you make a GOOD point about we are left with Characters who we just cant connect with, David is the MAIN one but as he is NOT a Human Character and he is just a ANTAGONIST then you need to have Protagonist that you can Connect with and THEY should be the MAIN Roles.

SADLY....  Daniels and Tennessee are NOT really Good Enough, but i guess they could TRY and FIX them... but the Reveal in Alien Covenant that Daniels now knows who DAVID is... really has caused a Dilemma as the OT shows.

There are a Number of Things that Fans are NOT pleased with as far as Alien Covenant, we have Characters but also beyond a Character is the STORY the PLOT and you do have to get Characters Right to make this WORK.. but you also have to Consider the STORY/PLOT.

So with the STORY what we have is what is a SET of Prequels that would Eventually lead to ALIEN and give us the Answers to WHO created the Xenomorph, and WHEN/WHY did those Eggs get on the Derelict.

What we had is a Indication that the EVENTS of Alien Covenant will eventually lead us to ALIEN.

And so we have the FOLLOWING..

*The USCSS Covenant which was Diverted from its Mission to go to Origae-6 a Earth like World to SET-UP a New Colony a Fresh Start for 2000 Colonist, and 1,140 Embryo's and its 15 Crew.  A Majority of the Colonist and Embryo's had Survived... but they are NOT aware of what Happened on Planet 4 and WHO really Walter now is.

*David who is in Control of the Ship and Basically the Colonist and Embryo's and what Happens to them and where the Ship goes Next are all down to what DAVID would want to do.

*Daniels as the ONLY Human on the Ship who is aware of WHO it is that Walter really IS.  Surely as soon as she is awake she would want to awaken the Colonist or some and WARN them who David is... 

*David has TWO Face Hugger Embryo's we cant RULE-OUT him getting any Black Goo or having some.

*The Weyland-Yutani Company are made aware of that David is NOW in Control of the Covenant Ship, and they are aware to some Degree of where he has BEEN and what he has been UP TO....

So the SET-UP is that (unless they Change Plans) the EVENTS that would Transpire in relation to either.

1) What David does NEXT and what he has Planed with the Colonist and those Embryo's (Human and Xenomorph). Where does he go and WHEN!

2) What becomes of the Remaining Eggs on Planet 4, would the Weyland-Yutani Company go to explore there or LV-223.

It would seem that FROM either of these Scenario's it would have to be about David to quite a Degree... and from either of those TWO Scenario's will lead to the EGGS that end up on the Derelict...

We just then NEED a Engineer Ship which is likely where the ENGINEERS have to come back into the FOLD or a TRIP to LV-223.

The Problem is that such a PATH would mean that David still has a Important Role he would be one of the MAIN Characters who we have to assume would be ALLOTTED the TOP THREE slots as far as Screen Time.

This Path makes him Part of the Eventual Creation of the Xenomorph, and makes the Xenomorph as something that DOES-NOT exist prior to Alien Covenant.

These are ALL things a lot of Fans are NOT Happy with.

So its a RIGHT PICKLE...

A After-Math sequel looks more LIKELY if there ever will be a Sequel... Unless they are going to ADD some CGI Gloss to De-Age Fassbender (as i cant see a Sequel being Made within Next Few Years).

And so the Discovery of a Broken David's Corpse would be away around this, and LESS time about him.  But he would have some Dialog/Information and maybe Flash Back Scenes to help the Audience know what had Happened from after they left Planet 4, until another Human Ship arrives to Discover a Disaster and David's Corpse.

The Fans then would likely want to see XENOMORPHS but have someway to indicate they are NOT created by David.

They could Re-activate Davids Head and have him say that the Eggs they (Incoming Humans) discovered on (Where-ever David is Discovered) all began with David discovering some Eggs on the Engineers Planet and he attempted to Merge these with the Neomorph Spores and used Black Goo to Create a Hybrid.

This may be a BEST CASE Scenario for many Fans..

But then NO DOUBT we would have Fans who would still want to then know.... WHERE did the Eggs that David had Discovered came from, and WHAT about those on the Derelict and WHAT the Space Jockey was doing with the Eggs and likely they would CLUTCH AT MORE STRAWS.. in the hope.... the Space Jockey is NOT a Engineer.

How do they introduce that if they go for a Please (some) Fanboys, David is Dead, Eggs Ancient, and Engineers are NOT a Space Jockey Movie...

It really is a MESS!

That came down to FOX deciding to make the First Movie a LESS ALIENY one.... and then to FORCE the Sequel to actually lets bring the ALIENS back.... but make David the Creator!

Instead of having David Create something DIFFERENT!

But ALAS!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Jan-27-2020 4:05 PM

@Ingeniero

This is some Interesting things, i think it depends on if we are going to Explore such as a Prequel or not..

I do recall, and i am not sure if it was on here or the AVPGalaxy Site, that some had felt that arriving at Origae-6 and reveal it as a Place with Pyramids etc that Already Contain Eggs would be the Best Way Forwards.

I would find this a bit TOO MUCH of a Coincidence...

But i guess it could be the ULTIMATE Story to RUBBISH that David had NOT created the Xenomorph but also it could be used to RUBBISH that the Engineers had done so too.

And indicate that Origae-6 is where the Engineers obtained the Eggs and attempted to Re-Engineer Traits from them on LV-223.  But then we would have to have some Good Explanation to HOW and WHY it is that David had got his Eggs and WHY he bothered with all those Experiments if he had access to those Eggs.

Having the Engineers being so STUPID to keep EGGS on Planet 4 would not make much sense... unless it reveals the Engineers on Planet 4 keep some in a SAFE Place to Sacrifice themselves to Xenomorphs but then you have to ASK to WHY and then HOW COME we see Planet 4 is NOT overran by Xenomorphs.

They could take such a idea as above, as far as Origae-6 is the Location of the Xenomorphs and so we have the STARBEAST Plot.... where the Engineers are a Race who had attempted to Transfer the Xenomorph from this place to Planet 4 or LV-223.

You would also have to come up with WHY the Engineers would have a EGG on Planet 4.

But i guess such a IDEA as in this Reply in Context to what you posted Aliens: Advent/Terminus could be a Option going Forward that would please some of the Fanbase.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Thoughts_Dreams

Feb-26-2020 8:43 AM

About fixing Daniels and Tennessee, I agree but that could also clash with how they were in AC. I do not disagree with it but that is why they got to get the characters right from the beginning. They changed David (for the worse) but maybe that could work for D and T. Get a better writer next time and stop having Ridley interfere with the story telling. Yeah there is a risk that only David will be the survivor for the next movie, something that I do not like but maybe that is to be expected so they could try something else so we think that we will know what will happen but we get something else and hopefully better.

I know that I write about the characters a lot but yes the story was a problem too since it was about a mad robot. I do not oppose the idea of humans trying to find a better life somewhere else, that is actually quite interesting how it is with global warming and that but it took a turn that was not good – interesting idea but poor execution of it.

The eggs and the derelict is interesting, it is just that I am afraid that they will still go "hey let's make A B C an D about David." In the end only XYZ is about something else because a lot of it is focused on a robot that is not even likable and even if he was better it is still too much about him.

What happens to the embryos and how the humans will grow up there could be interesting but they are still at the mercy of a megalomaniac and that is why it most likely will not work. I am not too exited about it unless they do something really great and get an interesting story but then something really unexpected must happen and I am not sure if that will be the case.

Maybe we can hope that WY will know about David so they will get there and sort of ambush him and blow him up. Xenos versus WY soldiers anyone? Perhaps this would be too much like Aliens so they could do something different. I am just trying to find out a way to get David killed, LOL!

"We just then NEED a Engineer Ship which is likely where the ENGINEERS have to come back into the FOLD or a TRIP to LV-223."

That could be interesting, I would like to see the LV-223 ones again. The question is just how to reduce the role and screen-time of David. I am against any kind of movie that has David at the center, he could be important but have limited screen-time though.

"This Path makes him Part of the Eventual Creation of the Xenomorph, and makes the Xenomorph as something that DOES-NOT exist prior to Alien Covenant."

No thanks

"The Fans then would likely want to see XENOMORPHS but have someway to indicate they are NOT created by David."

I would like that, it is a lot better than what they have indicated with Alien Covenant.

Those questions that you asked where the eggs came from and so on is something that I do not think that we need the answers to but we will get some answers to some parts of the link to how the Xeno came to be. By doing this we can still continue to discuss things and that is a part of the fun.

I think that Fox really made a crappy job with this one (the prequels) and now we are in shit.

BigDave

Feb-26-2020 9:36 AM

Well i think thats the Pickle we are in ;)

Unfortunately the FATE of the Covenant is in David's Hands if we are to Carry on with the Covenant Mission then Unfortunately its going to be HARD to remove David.

What we have to remember is that the Covenant Ship is at the WHIM of David.... its HOW do any of the Colonist manage to get RID of David and what becomes of those TWO Face Huggers.

Daniels being aware of WHO it is that Walter really is, does prove a Problem and as such Davids options are to either.

1) KILL HER... then how does he explain that to Tennessee.

2) EXPERIMENT on her or keep her Captive, and have her Escape and Awaken the others.  Then it leaves David to unleash the Face Huggers.

IF we begin a Movie where David is done for... its HOW and then the BIGGEST PROBLEM.. what kind of Jeopardy is in Store for the Colonist if David is GONE

Only the FACE HUGGERS and so how do you introduce them?

For those who are not interested in Daniels or David, then the ONLY option that remains is a AFTERMATH kind of Movie.

The Covenant Ship is stranded on Origae-6 (or some other place) and then its HOW MANY Colonist had Survived, and what Horrors are there on what ever World they are on, that surely have to have something to do with what David had brought on board the Covenant.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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