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ALIEN: QUANDARY

ALIEN: QUANDARY

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Forum Topic

BigDave

Sep-04-2019 3:37 PM

The DUST has Settled on ALIEN DAY, the 40th Anniversary and while we had a FEW things, we have NOTHING as far as WHATS NEXT for the Movie Franchise.

We have got to a Dilemma with the Prequels, we may have had the ALIEN QUADRILOGY which has some Movies that dont appeal to some Fans as much as others, but its by NO means as Disappointing to a % as the Prequels...

We now have a ALIEN QUANDARY

So while some wait Patiently for the Prequels to get Finished, i think others may Yearn for more ALIEN Action, as far as to see another ALIEN Movie.....

Maybe we wont be seeing ANY for some Time!

But if/when we see DISNEY decide to Produce another ALIEN Franchise Movie... its a case of WHERE.... do they GO?

The Prequels may now be a bit of a Poisoned Chalice, where as the Main Franchise is something that maybe could be Expanded Upon without UPSETTING the Masses.

Ridley Scott felt there was only so FAR you could carry on with the Franchise and where do go NEXT!  Its why he felt that doing a Prequel was the way to go, as NO-ONE had covered the Questions from ALIEN in regards to WHO the Space Jockey was and where did those Eggs come from!   

That Ended up giving us the Prequels...

But there was ways to had Carried on the Franchise, by NOT having to go for  a Prequel....

Alien Isolation was a Story/Game that did just that by Introducing us to Ellen Ripley's Daughter who went in Search for her Mother....   The Story of Amanda Ripley has been Covered in the GAME, and also a Novel of the Game..... it will also Spawn a Comic Book Series.

This Story of Amanda gave Fans some Familiarity, it did-not Steer to FAR from ALIEN.

Would a ALIEN ISOLATION Movie Franchise work? or would doing a Sequel to the Game/Novel be something to Consider?  A Sequel that could Connect to ALIENS as far as WHAT became of the Derelict (we could Wonder had someone TRIED to Blow It Up?)

Or a Sequel to Alien Isolation that goes off somewhere Else... We eventually would have to Conclude that the Company can only Obtain the Xenomorph from Ellen Ripley in Alien 3.

Do we do a Continuation of ALIEN Resurrection? a True ALIEN V (not some Reboot of Alien 3).

Do we offer a Alternative/Parallel Movie that Runs from Alien Resurrection for example what happened to Ripley 7's Queen?

There seems to be Limits to what we can do apart from the above, UNLESS we branch off from the Prequels (LV-223, Planet 4 and Origae-6) but then we could always have ways to Introduce the Xenomorphs in a Alternative Movie Series, for example was the Derelict the only Ship in the Cosmos that had Eggs? Had any other Worlds had Eggs on them?

The ONE thing i am sure we could ALL agree on is the Prequels showed us you can have Alternative Organisms to the Xenomorph, and so there is always that too Explore.

So while the Franchise is in a Quandary at the Moment, and the Prequels in a Quagmire there is something they could do in regards to a Movie, that does-not have to be a Prequel Continuation or any Reboot ALIEN 3 and bring the Gang Back!

What do you think?  Or do you think the Franchise has been or should be LAID TO REST? (Theatrically Speaking).

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

54 Responses to ALIEN: QUANDARY

MonsterZero

Sep-04-2019 4:51 PM

That's a tough one.

 

I'd lay it to rest ......and then develop a TV series.... If it does well...Bring that to the big screen.

IF I was forced to continue.....I would use the Engineers as a plot vehicle for cosmic horror...Xenomorphs are just half witted bugs and I don't see them contributing much(jump scares).

I'd call it A L I E N  I I and use Sigourney Weaver just as she is.

The Narcissus has never left the system. Mother cancelled Ripley's commands. Mother WON'T leave until she/the company gets a specimen.

the shuttle orbit has decayed and has fallen into the ice asteroid belt around calamapos. Mother is suicidal.

Mother has been waiting for a new set of orders from the company..she is strained.

Mother spots a alien derelict (Juggernaut) in the ice belt she maneuvers near it and wakes Ripley......

 

 

 

 

dk

Sep-04-2019 6:29 PM

This question has come up in the forum quite a bit and is always interesting to discuss.

I like that diagram BigDave- and I would like to see it continue to the left- somewhere between Isolation and Aliens. I think the Amanda angle has wings and could attract younger folks as well as geezers with open minds like me. My second choice would be after Resurrection and that could easilly include the Company and/or the creature.  Whatever the case, I would leave Ripley out of it unless there were some audio files or something. Ripley had her time just like I think David has had his. 

All said, I don't see it on the big screen, but maybe as a streaming series or something like MonsterZero mentioned.

 

Gavin

Sep-04-2019 10:56 PM

Strangely enough, I was actually pondering this the other day and because of the very reason you mention BigDave; because we really do seem to be at an impasse when it comes to the future of the franchise.

Firstly I looked at what we have thus far, which is much easier to quantify than your diagram, and is this - we have the original movie in all of it's ambiguous and mysterious glory, then we have two spin-off franchises; the Queen movies (Aliens, Alien 3, Alien: Resurrection) and the Engineer movies (Prometheus, Alien: Covenant).

In the original movie, the Alien was a bio-mechanical, invincible terror with an alien lifecycle whereby it transformed its victims into the medium by which its seed could be carried forward - the Facehugger. In the sequels, the Alien was an organic, mortal monster that having lost its mechanical edge needed to rely on a more natural method of propagation. And in the prequels we see the Aliens very essence being scrutinized with (in my opinion) the Engineers having reverse-engineered the Alien they found on LV-426 into a more manageable pathogenic weapon only for David to reverse engineer their reverse engineering and reassemble if only organically, the Alien creature.

This gives us three blanket choices; continue with the overexposed Queen narrative, continue with the needlessly bloated disassembly of the Aliens backstory, or return to the original concepts and feel of the original movie. While Aliens may have been highly influential and Prometheus may have been a visual tour-de-force the truth is that they both needlessly and unjustifiably deviated away from what made the first movie, both aesthetically and narratively, stand out.

So, in my opinion, we need to go back to that original movie and forget everything that has followed.

And to that end, I have been pondering the seemingly unponderable; a remake - but wait...

While I do believe that with the right cast, crew, script and so forth that a, at least technically, better version of Alien could be made, the format of a two-three hour movie in today's blockbuster, shared universe hungry market doesn't feel viable.

However, what if Alien was remade as a mini-series. The narrative, characters, and concepts could be given more time to breathe, especially if the 'lost' elements that later gave birth to Prometheus were reinstated, such as the Alien pyramid. The characters could be fleshed out and the creatures mystery and uniqueness reinstated.

Now, I know some may scoff at such a concept, and think the idea a fruitless exercise. But, take heed of Tim Burton's Planet of the Apes remake, which failed to live up to the original, but a mere eleven years later Rupert Wyatt's reboot retold the story from its very beginnings and spawned one of the best trilogies in recent years and a trilogy that surpassed its predecessors (in my opinion).

dk

Sep-04-2019 11:58 PM

I don't think Alien should be messed with except for the DC to be recognized as the definitive version. I disagree with any form of a reboot (with the below exception)- Alien is the template. The Quadrilogy is what it is. 

A mini series could be great for fleshing out aspects of Alien, but not replace it. Ripley and crew were common people whose back stories were adequate. Being regular people is what made them easy to connect with. I don't think we need to know about their childhoods or interim stories.  Ash's back story would be the only interesting thing except it would suck all the mystery from Alien.

I think it is rare to incorporate a game into canon, but Isolation is so well written that Amanda's story could be the closest thing to a fresh start without feeling like a hard re boot.

 The POTA remake was outstanding and is a great example of a re boot that led to a really good series- (for that matter, I would include the Star Trek re boot). I don't have a good argument, but somehow, I can't imagine Ripley or the original cast being  re done. 

 

Leto

Sep-05-2019 2:40 AM

For strange reason I can't post a long comment. And my another test comments randomly delete.

Leto

Sep-05-2019 2:43 AM

dfedadsadasdassadsadsasa

ignorantGuy

Sep-05-2019 5:07 AM

@Gavin and do you think that going from two hours to ten, a series remake would not wander away from the original to fill up that huge new time? Do we really need yet another story of corporate shady dealings? Was the prequel novel to Covenant that exciting? There way to few parties in the original to spread it like this....

BigDave

Sep-05-2019 6:19 AM

I think Certainly the Franchise is in a Pickle from a MOVIE stand point, as its WHERE do they go NOW.... which is the Main Reason for me doing the Topic...

The Problem is the Prequels have become something that has Fractured the Fan-base, and the Xenomorph Origins (route take)and a Series about Rogue AI is not to everyone's liking, the Engineers some were Interested in exploring the Engineers in Depth, some wanted to see them used as Aggressive Angry SOB's so with Less Depth than even Predators... (Basically Comic Book Engineers)  But its a case of NO MATTER what changes they make, what they introduce/change, i think they would STRUGGLE to get the Fans on board to the Point of Guarantee a Good Return on the COST of Finishing the Prequels...

It simply would be a RISKY Venture for Disney.

Thats WHY i placed that Prequel Line in the Diagram i used.

So Ignoring the Prequels, as far as to Continue to Branch from the Franchise it was a case of WHERE TO GO NEXT?

The Alien Franchise was really a QUADRILOGY that explored the Xenomorph Threat from the Standpoint of being about Ripley, it was just as much a Ripley Quadrilogy than the just Xenomorph.

The Option for a ALIEN V could have been to Continue from Alien Resurrection but then its a case of WHAT do you do?  More about Ripley and Xenomorphs?   You would also have to explain WHY a Ripley 8 would have Aged (But i have TWO ways to do this that dont mean we just CGI her for the Movie).

We could Consider at this point.... the Company Resort to CLONING our Ripley as they have NO other means of Obtaining a Xenomorph or anything related.

Alien Isolation came about as a Idea to Place another Story about Ripleys Daughter...  that seemed to be a Less Conflicting Idea that the Spin Off Novels... but its a case of should a Amanda Series be Confined to only the Video Games, Novels and Comics?

So to NOT Continue with Ellen Ripley's Story, to leave the Alien Isolation as its own thing and NOT be involved as a Movie, and to Abandon the Prequels, really leaves us with LITTLE OPTIONS...

I dont think that any Re-boots and Ret-cons are NOT wise be it Reboot Alien 3, Reboot Aliens, Reboot the Prequels!

So with all that Considered..... doing a NEW Series of Movies that does-not go the route of any of the Above may seem like there is NO-WHERE to go but thats NOT the case!

So without really Conflicting the Franchise or Prequels there are ways to go FORWARDS!

1) Alien Resurrection Parallel Story....  What became of the Failed Ripley 7 Queen?   This could have been SENT to another Facility and so we could explore that, and Xenomorphs that are slightly Different.

2) The Derelict, was this the only Ship to have Carried Eggs, could others had Landed on other Worlds?  So exploring this at some point after the Events of Alien Resurrection or Before could be another route.

3) The Engineers had Experimented on things similar to the Xenomorph in the Past, (Deacon) and so do we know what was the Basis for those Experiments?  Some Organism they encountered and Re-Engineered then if so and WHEN and mainly.... COULD there be this Organism out there in the GALAXY.

4) Similar to above, we know the Engineers did Experiment and had that Black Goo, but do we KNOW if they had Successfully Deployed it in the Past to other Worlds, and IF-SO then what has became of those Worlds?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Sep-05-2019 6:31 AM

TV Series is a OPTION!

But certain things would suit such a Venture, where we can Flesh Out Characters, the Problem is the Special Effects in Regards to the Amount of Screen Time we get Xenomorphs or Similar....

So you would have to Juggle the Budget.... Sacrifices have to be made, and depending on the Budget and Allocation to Xenomorphs and the like, we could END UP with some Comical Special Effects and CGI that could be Detrimental to the Xenomorph and similar.

TV Series that covers the Colonial Marines, the Weyland-Yutani as in Rivalry and Merger and Corporate Shenanigans, that covers AI and Synthetics in Detail.  Would all be more Easier to do.

To Cover the Engineers to a degree would NOT be so Hard.

The Vast Space Sets, and Special Effects for Monsters related to the Xenomorph are the Costly things, or things that IF they are NOT done right would look well LOW BUDGET...

You could make a Engineers vs Predators Movie that would be more Cheaper than a ALIENS 2 because Engineers and Predators are NOT as Expensive or Difficult to Produce on Screen.

Not saying we do that though lol

I think what made ALIEN stand out was you Hardly Saw the Xenomorph, so that would mean LESS TIME and Less Effects required, especially if you never see the Full Monster up close...

But you are going to get some Fans who would want to see more Xenomorphs and More Actions as they are used to from ALIENS and Various Comics/Games.... which for a TV Series would be Expensive.

Whats a Shame was that RS had ideas on how to Expand the Franchise that would NOT have to revolve around the Xenomorph..... but these PLANS went to POT when it was deemed they had to GIVE the Fans their Xenomorphs and Answers... it was then just HOW they chose to do this that was a Problem!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Sep-05-2019 7:12 AM

@Leto

Hope you can sort that out, as its always Interesting to read your take on things..

" I don't think we need to know about their childhoods or interim stories.  Ash's back story would be the only interesting thing except it would suck all the mystery from Alien."

Certainly i think going a Ripleys History would be a bad move, some Fans had expected to see her Ancestry in Alien Covenant....

With ASH his History and Agenda is surely Locked to Special Order 937 which likely would have been LINKED should the Prequels had got Finished.

I think the WONDER with Prometheus was it unleashed a Plot that revolved around the Engineers and Horrors they may have Created....

So within the Time-Line of say 2200-2400 then Missions could have Explored more Deeper Space and came across things Related to the Xenomorph and Engineers were i think the Potential could be to introduce something a Little Different to the Xenomorphs though, but we do have Fan-base that does-not like CHANGE.

EDIT:

I think we can understand WHY the Prequels had to give our Engineers a Location so Close, which was so that it was within Reach of Humanity within the Time-Line...  Having the USCSS Prometheus travel say Thousands of Light Years away would have seemed Silly if we are talking a Prequel in regards to Technology (Speeds and Cryo-sleep).   With a Sequel the Likelihood the Engineers would be BASED so Close to us seems a Coincidence, but a Necessary one again so that a Human Expedition could reach there in a Time-Line prior to ALIEN.  A Example is the Nostromo would take about 64-65 Years to Travel the Distance of that Green Dot, from SIDE to SIDE.

The Prometheus sequels i was working on in 2013 would NOT have taken David and Dr Shaw so CLOSE... they would even had reached their Destination after ALIEN introducing Humans was not a Problem, as i was looking at the Question.... is the EARTH the ONLY place the Engineers had Seeded/Evolved Mankind?

The Eventual Ramifications of their Visit/Journey would NOT have Effected Earth until after the Events of Alien Resurrection.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

Sep-05-2019 10:22 AM

Gavin said: 'in the sequels, the Alien was an organic, mortal monster'

Yeah..I'd like a return to a biomechanical killing machine.

If the crew of the Nostromo had watched ALIENS they would have just locked the xeno in a closet and waited till they docked! Let the marines take care of it.

Ripley "Hey! don't open that locker!"

Parker "What!? Why not?"

Ripley "That's where we locked up that space bug!"

Parker "Oh yeah...Well... I guess he can have my stuff! lol!"

 

dk

Sep-05-2019 10:37 AM

A TV series would be a good way to tell a story and develop characters. I don't special effects and budget would be a big issue. The IGN shorts did impressive work on small budgets. The xeno was never shown in its entirety either.

MonsterZero

Sep-05-2019 1:34 PM

is the EARTH the ONLY place the Engineers had Seeded/Evolved Mankind?'

That's actually a great question! Earth 2 or at least a primitive colony...ripe for monsters and easy to film.....planet of the apes....where it's NOT the Earth twist.

I like that.

Gavin

Sep-05-2019 1:34 PM

Hard TV reboot, not so popular, how about a soft reboot come sequel movie...

First, you market it NOT as an Alien movie, but as a low budget sci-fi survival movie. Rather than call it Alien: Adrift we just call it Adrift.

Next to the narrative...

A human vessel traveling through an undisclosed region of space inadvertently crashes into another human vessel that was adrift in space. The crash damages the protagonist ship leaving them blind as to their location, venting atmosphere and power, urging the crew to repair their vessel else meet the same fate as the vessel they collided with. To hasten the repairs the crew salvage parts from the ship that was adrift and discover that it was carrying a strange cargo - a spherical object the size of a small car, both organic and mechanical, but beyond that no-one knows what it is. Believing it to be valuable they 'acquire' it and work feverishly to fix their vessel. After destroying the adrift vessel (to avoid future collisions) and upon completing the repairs they check their acquired cargo, to discover the object open, yet empty.

that's the first half of the movie, seemingly unrelated to Alien except for its aesthetic.

But in the second half of the movie crew members go missing or die in brutal fashion before it is revealed that the cause is (obviously) an Alien. But this is not just any Alien but the same one Ripley ejected from the Narcissus (the crew are revealed to be in the same region of space where the Nostromo was destroyed)...

In addition to showing that Aliens can cocoon themselves to survive long periods and hazardous environments (such as the vacuum of space), the Alien can be shown to have matured, being less animalistic and more callous in its pursuit to reproduce through egg morphing. This could be shown by having the Alien killing the crew by toying with them, tricking them, leading them into traps.

You could also have Mother, also used by this crew once their vessel is repaired to have a more active role in trying to secure the Alien by having Mother turn off life support or sealing helpless members of the crew in with the Alien.

But why the title and narrative subterfuge? Simple, really - to avoid the hype and inevitable expectations of the fans and delivering a good sci-fi survival movie, where the antagonist shifts from the prospect of being adrift in space to being hunted and used to birth sci fi's greatest Alien threat. Also, the shock of audiences in the first week of release when they realize they're actually watching an Alien movie, virtually priceless.

Leto

Sep-05-2019 2:02 PM

Nice scheme, Big Dave.

 

When I think about new alien stories, I use my 3-step scale of originality.

1. Re-imagination of original stories. You can look at it as a kind of remakes/reboots/retcons.

Include:

a) Other continuity (Alien > Prometheus > Covenant...; Alien > Alien 3 > Aliens...) (interesting to think about it, like a good puzzle)

b) Other staff (Prometheus crew found alien eggs, not black goo...)

c) Other events (David did not destroy the Engineers...; classic series before Alien 3)

2. New branch. Stories with connection to some things from the original films for a new story. You can look at it as a kind of prequels/sequels/spin-offs. Solid or free.

Include:

a) Stories that use places/locations which were mentioned/shown for new stories with new places/locations (AvP2 game)

Example: Some people/organizations found LV-223, LV-426, Planet-4, Derelict and get information about other worlds in deep space. They organize expeditions to these worlds.

Anti-example: Cave painting and LV-223 from Prometheus - this is new things for franchise.

b) Stories with characters/things which were mentioned (Amanda Ripley or Alien: Out of Shadows, Sea of Sorrow, maybe your story about 7th Queen)

The script type a-b does not have to be a development of the ideas and plots of the original films, but uses them as a starting point.

c) Classic (solid) prequels/sequels/spin-offs.

Also, ANYWAY, a feature of all those types is, well, the presence of these links. These links already should exist/to be mentioned in previous films.

3. New horizon. Stories without connections with original films. You can look at it as a completely new stories, not as a reboots/sequels...

Include:

a) Stand alone stories without plot connections with original films, but still housed in the same universe (Prometheus, Alien: The Cold Forge)

Those stories may have a references/mentions of things from original films, but don't use them as part of the plot.

b) Completely new stories (mb future Alien: Phalanx about medival people who are trying to survive against alien-plague)

c) Some types of cross-overs.


P.S. This allows you to determine what kind of story we want to get. And how far this story stands from the original films (all six). And interesting view on evolution of personal ideas.

 

Sometimes I think about new continuity of alien franchise, but with all "classic" staff.

Sometimes about free Alien sequel.

Now I am working on a story that is not a direct sequel or prequel or even a spin-off of the original films.

Korg

Sep-05-2019 2:11 PM

2 Fastbenders better then 1

more horny 

dk

Sep-05-2019 3:10 PM

Gavin That is an interesting idea to have the xeno from Alien in there as it was alive in space last time we saw it. The idea of it toying with the crew would really give it a haunted house in space vibe especially with MUTHER being in on it. 

I thought the original script had the Alien kill Ripley and mimic her voice? Maybe some of that idea could be used as well? It could really keep the audience guessing.

I just don't see how they would market the movie without tipping its hand that it's an Alien movie. Alien fans might not even watch or know about it and thus have a poor turn out during opening week.

ignorantGuy

Sep-06-2019 1:37 AM

@Gavin May I alter the story a bit? Let's have the vessel adrift have a (some) surviving crew in the cryo and a shady guy awake (later revealed to be a robot). Only half of the crew inspects the derelict, but something wrong goes and they cannot go back to their ship and comms will go down for a time. Tensions will erupt and people will think that they "evil robot" lured them in to kill them (but in fact it was the Alien with his telepathic abilities). The robot will be revealed that only wanted to save the crew in cryo. After a while the comms will be reestablished and captain (now impersonated by a Xeno) will encourage the remainder of both crews to put their difference aside and to work together to make repairs and to return to the infested functioning ship.After that whole hell breaks loose.

Gavin

Sep-06-2019 3:35 PM

Regardless of whatever narrative we next see the Alien return to prominence in, one thing that is a must, and it is that the Alien needs to evolve beyond its animalistic tendencies if it intends to regain its crown as the prime sci-fi horror antagonist.

Jesting about talking Aliens or Aliens in spacesuits aside, the Alien needs to be terrifying if it is to instill terror.

In all movies, the Alien acts like an animal, although we have seen glimpses of some low-level intelligence such as disabling the cameras aboard the Alien: Covenant or operating the atmosphere processors elevator in Aliens.

If we mix this with the bio-mechanical creature from the first movie and make it impervious to gunfire or able to regenerate/repair and reintroduce alien aspects such as egg-morphing, then all we need is to introduce this Alien into a narrative not yet experienced and watch the Alien flourish.

...

One example could be a reimagining of the lost airlock scene whereby a member of the crew is herded by fear of the Alien into an airlock. We would expect the Alien to smash through the glass window of the airlock and ravage the crew member. But what if instead the Alien can somehow sense/see the circuitry for the airlock and instead stabs the airlocks control panel with its tail, opening the outer airlock door and sending the unfortunate crew member into the vacuum of space. 

dk

Sep-06-2019 3:47 PM

Another example could be the xeno manipulating a couple crew members to turn on each other and one gets killed. Right after that, the survivor snaps out of it and realizes what he just did. He looks up to see the xeno at a distance. The xeno hisses in acknowledgment and disappears into the darkness.

BigDave

Sep-06-2019 4:04 PM

Interesting Replies.....

I think when i made this Topic it was too look at a way Forwards in Light of the Limbo of the Prequels and Dilemma of where to Carry on with those....

So i was looking at what route you could take the Franchise that is SET after the Prequels... i would ASSUME the Prequels would have Concluded by the Year 2120.

And so its about how do we Carry On with a ALIEN Movie, that does-not contradict the Prequels or Franchise.....  One Answer is to keep a lot of Mystery and NOT go into details about Certain Stuff the Prequels has left Half Answered.

I think while some ideas of a Retcon could be ideal to some, i Personally am not a FAN as what do we Retcon and what with, and so a Blomkamps Alien 5 gets a MASSIVE THUMBS DOWN from me.... Unless his Ideas form a Movie that does-not Retcon Alien 3.... I would feel the same for if Ridley Scott would have completed his Prequels and then Retcon the Franchise after ALIEN, thus ignoring ALIENS.. that would get a THUMBS DOWN from me too.

We could go for a ALIEN V as in a Direct Sequel to Alien Resurrection which my Alien Vanguard idea was... (Sequel was Alien Hex) but i think maybe Ellen Ripley's Saga should END as a Quadrilogy.

I think that Amanda Ripleys Story should maybe be kept to its own Different Alternative Mediums (Game, Novel, Comic).

So i think that Alternative Movies could me made that WONT contradict other Movies, or Reboot Nothing...

For Example...

*Having a Plot about the Failed Ripley 7 Queen being taken to another Outpost... i had discussed such a Plot a Few Years Back

*Wondering who may have gone back to LV-426 either prior to 2179 (The Derelict Looked Damaged in Aliens Special Edition did someone TRY and BLOW UP the Derelict?) or post 2179 (could something be got after the Destruciton of Hadleys Hope, what Condition would the Eggs be in?).

*Had those responsible for the Derelict (dont have to go into detail so that we dont touch on the Engineers/David as Creator) we can just Wonder HOW many Ships had those Eggs and could one of those Ships been Sucsesful in Deploying the Cargo on a World, or had it suffered a Similar Fate to the Space Jockey?

*The Engineers had interacted with Many Worlds, was the Earth the First Target for the Horrific Bio-Weapon and they Failed to Launch a Single USE?  or is there some World out there that had been Bombarded.... what Horrors remain on such Worlds.

So i think those are all Avenues that would NOT conflict with the Prequels or Franchise...

Off Course any Plot would have to or maybe not.... indicate by the Time we get to 2350+ there is NOTHING to obtain, leaving only a attempt to Clone Ripley as the way to Obtain a Xenomorph.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Sep-06-2019 4:38 PM

If we continue after Resurrection, it seems the focus might shift to Call or even WY. Seems Earth is pretty much destroyed. It might be worth exploring what caused that mess. A possible angle is that the earth looked like that due to an attack from the Engineers?

BigDave

Sep-06-2019 4:52 PM

@DK

Indeed if you DONT reveal the Xenomorph much, then you dont need as much of a Effects Budget, over Exposing a Xenomorph on a Budget could lead to CGI that would only be on Par with Alien Isolation (which is Good for a Video Game) or Men in Rubber suits like AVPR.....   The less you Show the less $$$$ to pull it off.

However would only seeing a Xenomorph vaguely or little, be something to Please a lot of Fans? I am sure those who saw ALIEN and liked it would think that keeping it to the Shadows is Fine.  But what about those who want to see many more?

@ Gavin

Some Interesting things, i remember when i was a Kid i had Vivid Dreams of remembering a ALIEN sequel before ALIENS, where the Xenomorph ended up landing in the Ocean and Terrorized a Ships Crew lol, this was about 1983/1984 i think.....  so yeah the Xenomorph did-not look DEAD but neither did the Queen from ALIENS...

None the Less its a Question of can a Xenomorph Survive in SpaceHow Long do they Live for anyway?  And can they enter a kind of Hibernation......

So maybe indeed the Xenomorph could be seen Floating around in Space and Picked up by a Passing Ship, maybe it could appear DEAD, they then take a look at it and its DEAD AS DODO... but then it Decomposes, Forms into Cocoon and from it we START AGAIN!

That would add a Twist to its Life-Cycle, where indeed as Ridley Scott suggested they can Regenerate... well i think that after Death they are BORN AGAIN.... that would be Interesting.  Such a Fate Could have Fallen the Drifting Ship in your Story.

Where the Incoming Vessel Collides with the Ship that Unfortunately for them recovered the Xenomorph Floating in Space.

I think thats Interesting and a Avenue to Explore...

I think RS intended Ending for ALIEN where the Xenomorph would Impersonate Ripley, while interesting i think it Conflicts what the Franchise did with the Xenomorphs in the Franchise.   Because we have to ASK how come the Xenomorphs in the other Movies never showed such signs of Intelligence or Manipulation?

Maybe this is something they gain after another MOLT/STAGE of their Life-Cycle but its a Question of HOW-LONG would this take?

I think such Intelligence surely could be Interesting to Explore in a Re-Engineering of the Organism though..

I think we have to ACCEPT the Franchise as a Whole, yes we can discount the AVP Movies, but i am not sure we can CLAW our way back to a Imposing Near Immortal Xenomorph would not be the best way to go.

The Monster has to be Horrific.... but not a Super Hero... i feel making it Too Powerful would not be right, there has to be that Terror of the Unknown, and being Outclassed by the Beast, but still have a Sense of HOPE!

The Xenomorph even in ALIENS is Terrifying and Intelligent if used under the Right Circumstances, so its more a case of the Unpreparedness of the Humans who encounter the Threat as opposed to the Deadliness of the Threat that really made ALIEN stand out... and Alien 3, as opposed to Aliens and Alien Resurrection.

But having encounter a Xenomorph that is Re-engineered at a Hubris would be something different that you can make it more Superior then....

THIS is something that RS should have done with David and his Creation, that he Created a Uber-Morph

I would also say the Xenomorph is Cooked to a Degree, i think you have to Re-Invent it a little... that does-not mean Reboot it.... just Evolve/Engineer it some way.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Sep-06-2019 5:02 PM

I think Gavin is onto something. The xeno going dormant in space and then coming back to life is plausible. Look no further than an actual creature who can basically do just that: The water bear.

 Also, it evolves the creature intellectually and could show a menacing scheming monster- it had a lot of time to think and stew what Ripley did to it and is really pissed off and will toy with and torment its next victims just because it can!

MonsterZero

Sep-06-2019 5:45 PM

Cool ideas!

Love the xenomorph toying with their prey ideas. 

I'd like to see a "Planet of the Xenomorph' story.

A planet where xenos have gone unchecked and they've swarmed the planet in the tens of billions(egg-morphing or exploded out of animals)...creating vast rivers of acid blood..with massive city sized colonies fighting each other.

The year is 2430 and a research station is orbiting the planet....just observing...trying to figure out what to do with 100 billion xeno's?

BigDave

Sep-06-2019 6:56 PM

"A possible angle is that the earth looked like that due to an attack from the Engineers?"

Who knows.... i was more drawn to at the Time the Sub-Plot....   we see with the Prequels that Creating a Synthetic AI that becomes Sentient is a Potential Hazard (David) and a Hubris... and so i would expect that a Synthetic that then Sub-Creates the Autons would be the same kind of Hubris..

The Earth is in a WAR,  a Battle for who will Dominate the Earth, Man vs Synthetic vs Auton......   This could give Mankind a Good Reason to want the Xenomorph, to use it as a Weapon to RECLAIM the Earth!

So this is what the idea i had but i Abandoned it was i never recorded it more than in my Head, and due to Conditions my Head Erases stuff lol I still know the Broad Idea though ;)

Alien: Vanguard (Alien V) continues after Alien Resurrection, we see Ripley 8 Struggles with her Humanity as the Xenomorph DNA takes over, changing her, making her Less HumanCall says she can HELP her and they go to a Secret Auton underground hide away, where they come across as a Race who are against the Uprising and Domination of the Synthetics and want to Help Mankind

She meets with their Science Team but is Reluctant but she notices she is losing her Humanity and Agrees... the Autons remove her Xenomorph DNA.... but as a Consequence its Drained Ripley, she has Aged, and will Age Fast... but they said they can place her in Cryo-Sleep while they work on a way to Reverse the Aging...  (something i am sure Weyland would have liked). She First demands to know what happened to the Xenomorph DNA.... she is shown how they Disposed of it, and she Trusts Call....

Ripley then awakens and is Greeted by Call and the Scientist Autons who give her a Injection a Substance that HALTS the Age Process, she would need Injections on a regular basis to HALT the Age Process, but they also say WHILE they cant Reverse it... the Substance they have Created could SLOW down the Age Process by Quite a lot....  They have Invented a kind of Elixir of Life, they claim they could give this to Mankind to help them against the Synthetics... but Ripley realizes the BAD this could be IF our Race could SLOW DOWN the Age Process.

Thats the Least of her Worries!

As she is about to leave Rome, the Autons give Ripley some information about her Daughter, they said that the Company had Covered up her LIFE and that she had Died on LV-426 in a Attempt to Destroy the Xenomorph.    Then Ripley Questions this, and said she was shown a Photo of her Daughter, the Autons say thats not the case and SHOW her a Photo of Amanda prior to her Disappearance and she is MUCH YOUNGER..

Ripley is Devastated... but at least she knows her Humanity is coming back...  Call comforts her says she is like a Mother to her.... Ripley says she can never have another Daughter....  But then Call says maybe thats not TRUE!

As Ripley is about to Leave, the Autons meet her about her LOSS and say they have a Gift!   A Woman aged in her Early 30's appears.... she is Blonde, has a Distinctive Mark under her EYE..... its NEWT!

The Autons Claim they Could not CLONE her Daughter, but they did have access to Newts DNA and Cloned her..

As they embrace, Ripley talks to Newt, who appears to have little Memory of events and Horrors of Hadleys Hope, but then Ripley thinks its best that she did-not remember... before she then remembers she is a Clone and does-not have Memories, but then she Wonders how come she does have hers!

They are set to leave Rome, when they are Ambushed by Synthetics, a Frail Ripley is NO Match but Newt Saves her, she shows SUPERHUMAN Strength, and she has a CUT that Heals...

This Concerns Ripley, so she wants to go back to the Autons base in the Vatican, for Answers, while Newt says it does-not matter, she just is a Experiment that Combines Cloning with the Elixir of Life, she says the Autons did this so that she could use her Blood to keep Ripley from Aging... 

She is adamant she wants to see what else the Autons have been up to but Newt tries to stop her, Ripley then finds Call and demands she is taken to the Head Scientist...  He Reveals that thanks to Ripley they can Create the NEXT stage of Evolution to Mankind, a Superior Species that would WIN the fight for the Earth... so that this Mankind Upgrade could reclaim the Earth.   This Concerns Ripley.... she asks what of the Xenomorph.... he claims they Engineered some of its DNA to allow for the Enhancement of the Clones..

As they explore the Vatican, Ripley notices a Statue of David... only its head is NOT that of the Michelangelo's but it is of David the Synthetic, she then realizes their Religious Cult, is not based off Catholicism but a Bastardized Version.   Ripley is Concerned....

She then goes MAD at Call saying you knew they was going to do this, she claims she had no idea... the Auton Head of State claims she should be pleased, as they have given her a GIFT, in that she would not AGE much, she is RID of the Curse of the Xenomorph and they have given her NEWT back!

Anyway she attempts to Attack the Head Auton, but Newt Stops her.... Ripley is taken away to a Dungeon Below but on her way she notices another Effigy of David the Android (she has no knowledge who he is, but we do) this time on Christs Body on a Cross..

The Auton Cult Leader then tells the Tale of David, how he rose up against Oppression of his Creators and was Superior and how he had attempted to Evolve Mankind, his Lambs, but he also needed a Wolf...

She is taken into a Chamber where there is Chained inside a Cell a Xenomorph Queen!

There are Cells down the side that Host Xenomorph Eggs, TWO Per Cell.... we then see in one Cell what appears to be Vriess in the Distance as he is Chest Busted...

To her Horror she tries to escape but is overpowered, while Newt looks on, she begs her to help... Newt looks on and says i could have looked upon you as my Mother, i have some of your DNA... but you would not leave this place with me, you had to come back...  Now you can become a Mother Again.... as Newt watches over as Ripley is Dragged to a Cell, but then the Room is Stormed by Synthetics we  see some Cells are Opened and Xenomorphs are Unleashed....  a Battle is under way.

Ripley picks up a Gun, and Shoots at some Xenomorphs and then Chases down and Targets the Cult Leader, but then Newt catches her... throws her about, then as she is about to attack Ripley, we see Call come in and Injure Newt, but Newt Recovers.... and Breaks Call apart..

Then out of No-Where we see Johner run in, he attacks and Fights with Newt, eventually Winning.... as he pulls her Head Off......  

Ripley is Concerned... she is worried about him, we see some Synthetics who said they Released him from another Room, he says he was being Experimented on, given Experimental Medication...  Ripley thinks he is a CLONE... he says he is NOT and he had been given some Injections that had Changed him... but he is still the same Man.

Ripley is not convinced... they are attacked by a Xenomorph, it wounds Johner and kills TWO Synthetics, Ripley Manages to Kill the Xenomorph, and we see Johners wound on his Shoulder starts to Heal!

She rushes over to Call, and asks for Forgiveness for NOT trusting her, Call says she had NO idea the Cults Intentions...

They are then Surrounded, Johner and Surviving Synthetic try to Fight Off the Autons, and Clones but are Outnumbered.....

The Cult Leader tells them that they used Call to NOT go and Destroy the Xenomorph but to bring it back.... and she Succeeded... in that unknown to Call, she had Secret Programing to Recover Ripley 8 and bring her back.

They then used her DNA to create Ripley 8 Clones... well use her DNA to make a Army of Super-Humans... they said they also tried to see what the DNA would do when Injected into a Normal Human...

They said they could not quite Replicate what Ripley 8 was, but they thought they was close by making Clones.  They said that Ripley 8 was a Ultimate Weapon, that she would however Eventually become more Xenomorph... and then would only have a Limited Life Span.

They Re-engineered the Regenerative Properties in order to make a Serum that would give Regeneration to Cells and Prevent Aging... and grant some Regenerative Ability.  They reveal that Johner was given Stronger Doses of a Earlier Form more closer to Ripley 8's DNA

They wanted to see if they could Create the Perfect Soldier to WIN the WAR for Earth for them...

Ripley asks WHY the Xenomorph then... he claims its a Insurance Policy.... in that should your Creation Disappoint you or Rebel then you need something to Eradicate them.

As Ripley and Johner and the Synthetic are about to be Executed, the Xenomorph Queen comes in and Kills a few of the Clones and Autons, that allow Ripley and Johner and the Synthetic to escape to another Room in Pursuit of the Cult Leader.

As they catch up with him, the Xenomorph Queen breaks into the Room the Queen kills the remaining Gaurds and then comes Eye to Eye with Ripley... it pauses for a Moment... as if it recognises her...

Then its Inner Jaw comes out, at this Moment Johner attacks the Queen from behind, it chases him and he manages to shut a Door behind it, but it grabs him and pulls him through, the Synthetic manages to pull him as the Door Closes down on the Queen...  but also the Legs of Johner...

As she looks over Johner he laughs, says its all right i be patched back to normal soon! he knows he cant Regenerate from that though...

The Synthetic Drags his Body out of the way, just as Acid Blood from the Queen gets close and Melts his Legs.... the Queen is NOT dead yet... It wriggles to try and get Free from being trapped by the Door...

Johner informs Ripley that he overheard that the Vatican is loaded with Explosives as a Safety Precaution.  And that the Cult Leader has the Detonation Device, in a Room...   Johner asks them to leave him, and to get to the Cult Leader as he is bound to try and Escape.

They (Ripley and Synthetic) eventually track him down, he is injured in a Room, we find out he was attacked by a Growing Chest Buster, which he managed to KILL... we see the Dead Body of it.... its about 3ft Tall...  

He Holds a Detonation Device, and a Briefcase... he says he will BLOW them all up..... he then says WHY could Ripley had not accepted the Gift and left with Newt! He said he gave her Everything she wanted..

Her Humanity Back, Extended Life and a Daughter.

He says she has Ruined Everything....

Then as Ripley confronts him she backs off.... but then she confronts him and says DO-IT.. she has NOTHING to live for and SHE cant let him get away...

He is reluctant to pull the Trigger...

Then the Xenomorph that is 3ft Tall starts to move, its only wounded, as goes towards the Cult Leader, we see another Newt comes in, she kicks the Xenomorph to the Floor, she has the Broken Body of Call with her...

Threatens Ripley and the Synthetic to back off, or they will Disconnect Call Permanently, she is still alive but broken..

The Cult Leader grabs Call he is about to Rip her Head off when she Manages to Bite the Cult Leader who drops the Trigger and it rolls towards Ripley...

The Newt then Grabs the Briefcase and Attempts to Run off, the Cult Leader asks her to STAY and HELP him, but the Newt Clone just Smiles she says "every king has his reign and then he dies"   he loses grip of  Briefcase as the Newt Clone runs away, but the Briefcase opens and some Ampoules drop out, she closes the Briefcase and Runs off. 

They confront the Cult Leader who has a Injured Leg and cant Run fast, the Synthetic Catches him, they Fight... 

Ripley comes in and lands a Blow to the Cult Leader that gives the Synthetic the Advantage...   she then watches over the Fallen Wanna be God....

He says he can still Save her... make her back what she Once Was... Superior, he can make her a Daughter that would be Loyal and he has seen the Error of his ways and the Xenomorph is something that CANT be Controlled.

She says no thank you she enjoys being Human, and he says that she will Die Soon, once the Serum wears off, she will Age Fast.... she would Die in Days... he can Save Her.... she said she would rather Die than be CURSED..

And she goes to kill him, but then she hears the sound of a Ship, the Synthetic peers outside and says there is a Ship landing....   Ripley looks at the Broken Body of the Cult Leader, and then she goes to Call... her body seems Life-Less but then Call awakens.

They have a few Words.... Call tells her to leave her and give her the Detonation Device to Blow this Place up... she tells Ripley to take the Ampoules as they could contain the same Serum that Johner has so she wont have to Die...

We go to outside and the Ship has landed its a Small Ship, as Small as the Bety, and the Newt Clone has gone aboard, as Ripley makes it to the outside she stares as the Ship ascends... Newt looking down with a Smile..

Ripley runs back inside to Call, to try and take her away the Synthetic informs her he can sense something trying to break through a Door they had came up in.... they dont have Time...  

Call uses her Last bit of Strength to Clasp the Trigger, tells Ripley to Go.... Ripley caresses her Head... Call says "i love u"   and Ripley replies back the same.... the Synthetic Drags Ripley away....

They leave the Building, make a Run for it and we cut to Call overlooking the Broken Body of her Cult Leader, he pleads her not to do it... that they can Escape and he rebuild their Cult.... she says soon they will be Dead anyway...

she then Starts to say the Lords Prayer and then Presses the Trigger...

Outside Ripley and the Synthetic watch as the Vatican and area around it is BLOWN UP..

They stare at the Stars..... wondering what to do NEXT..

Ripley says this World is not the World of hers, or this Life and that she waits Death...

The Synthetic says she cant do that.... and the Cult has more Places and no doubt that the Newt Clone has taken the Serum to one of their Outposts... he says they must Track them down and STOP THEM..

She says how can she help... she is Dying, Old and Weak... and how can she TRUST him.... he says i know Mankind can never trust a Synthetic... and he does-not blame her but his Group had Saved her, she then tells him about Bishop....  

She dusts herself down, and asks... HOW can i be of any Help... the Synthetic shows her the Ampoule (enough for a Number of Doses) and he says we NEED to FIGHT FIRE with FIRE...

Ripley understands... she cant allow the Cult to continue their Plans... she knows the Serum is a Curse... a Hex... but its the only way she could put up a FIGHT and Prevent the Vanguard Cult from Achieving its Agenda..

We cut to Credits..

Thats what i Recall from my Vanguard idea... which would lead to ALIEN 6 or as i would call it ALIEN: HEX

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Sep-06-2019 6:57 PM

@BigDave- However would only seeing a Xenomorph vaguely or little, be something to Please a lot of Fans?

I think fans would be ok with it. As much as I love the Quadrilogy, I never thought it was bad to not see the Full Monte. I liked seeing the whole creature, don't get me wrong. But I am fine with seeing quick views and clever cuts while my imagination fills in the blanks.

BigDave

Sep-06-2019 7:04 PM

@DK

Certainly the Tardigrades are a Good Point.

Why i also said that idea is Plausible...  i also do think a Twist on it, as in the Xenomorph Cocoons itself, so that a few Small Eggs grow from it ;)  or a Egg Laying Xenomorph ;)

I am still not a FAN of the Xenomorph being able to Imitate a Human or have a Telepathic Link, mainly in case of HOW this could conflict the Franchise... sure if we never had ALIENS and on wards, it would have been a Good way forwards ;)

I would have liked to have seen David Evolve his Creation to do this though......  which then even if we go the David Creator or David not the Creator route, it could explain the Company would want the Xenomorph because if David could have Evolved such Traits with them... then maybe the Company could too... and this is where we could introduce a more Intelligent/Telepathic version?

Thats just my TWO Cents though... not saying the idea should be scrapped.... i mean who knows if Xenomorphs can Evolve to this Level in Time, with ALIENS those Bugs where only around for Weeks... so maybe it takes more time ;)

Regarding the TV Series... or a Movie that shows little...

A TV Series may be better Financially and i will say that a Gradual Build Up, and not showing much.... could get Fans Excited..

IF the TV Series goes down a STORM then it could allow Disney to then considered to A) Give us a Movie with a Good Budget, or B) make Series 2 a Higher Budget to show case the Xenomorph or similar more ;)

so actually i think thats a Good Idea...

while some fans would want more... this route is a Financially better way to Gauge if BIGGER Investment is Warranted...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

dk

Sep-06-2019 8:49 PM

I am still not a FAN of the Xenomorph being able to Imitate a Human or have a Telepathic Link, mainly in case of HOW this could conflict the Franchise...

It is definitely a matter of opinion. I like the idea since it recalls an original script that got canned. Just my opinion, but I would be hyped to see a movie go this direction. We know the beast is a bad ass, but now we could see it become deliberately sinister and not just animalistic. And that is what has been missing from the franchise for decades- making the creature piss your pants/afraid to go to bed scary. A true Devil! But to stay true to the first movie, it would leave animals (Jonesy) alone.

That is where I would like to see things go regarding the Alien itself.

As for WY, David, Engineers, Call- those are just as worthy imo. Depends on who goes first.

BigDave

Sep-07-2019 5:57 AM

I think it comes down to how we interpret the Various Franchise Movies, certainly looking at ALIEN alone can lead us to a Conclusion about the Xenomorph, it seemed to have a more Personal and Sadistic approach to Hunting the Crew, especially Deleted Scenes, where as the Rest of the Franchise including Alien Covenant seems to give the Impression of a Organism that relies on Instinct and Survival, something that has no MORAL Compass and is neither Evil or Good.

I know some do think the Xenomorph was Invulnerable due to the Comment by ASH in that you CANT kill it... i interpret this as they cant KILL it under the Circumstances as to do so would put them in Jeopardy (Hull Breach),  i also go by that Dutch Comment "if it BLEEDS it Dies"

So i think while some of the Franchise had Diminished the Xenomorph i think that to have it being something TOO POWERFUL really does not work so well, i think having the Horrors have a Weakness works better, like how even Vampires and Werewolves have Weaknesses, if a Monster had NONE then what we have is like a Super Hero Movie Aggressor, where the only Solution is a Counter even more Powerful Hero etc....

so with a Monster that is Really Powerful/Deadly it Limits what you can do with it, because HOW does anyone Survive?  A Good Example is THE THING.....

It works in a Secluded Area so the Antarctic or if we had it on a Space Ship/Station... but if it gets into a more Populated Place.... say The Thing invades New York... then how do you stop it?

I think again the Part of them being able to Speak etc would be Creepy but how would this FIT with the rest of the Franchise?

Thats WHY I think when you have something that has become Stagnated and Diminished then sometimes its best to have a Clean Slate... and by that to Introduce a New Monster or Variant of it that then takes on some of those Traits that was Intended by Ridley Scott, to give us a Ultramorph so to speak.....

Or Introduce us to a more Ancient Monster thats related, as we can Speculate from WHERE and HOW the Black Goo was able to Create Horrors like the Deacon, Neomorph and how a Xenomorph could be Engineered from it.

So to introduce something NEW that is Ancient that is similar to the Xenomorph but more Intelligent and Powerful could be the way to go.... The Starbeast!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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