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Are the Eggs on LV-426 Still There?

Are the Eggs on LV-426 Still There?

5 Upvotes191 RepliesUpvoteAdd A Reply
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chli

Apr-05-2019 3:30 AM

As we all know, at the end of Aliens the atmosphere processor and Hadley’s Hope are blown up. But what about the site where the juggernaut and the space jockey are? And what about the eggs?

The colonists at Hadley’s Hope have not encountered any problems until Newt’s parents get the coordinates (from Burke) to investigate a site. This site is far away from the colony. It takes the family some time to get there with their vehicle.

The climate on LV-426 is terrible. It’s cold (“well below zero”). There are poisonous fumes and no oxygen. The inside of the juggernaut is open to the climate outside. However, the eggs are situated far below ground level (“a cave or something”). It’s warm (“like the goddam tropics”). And the eggs are protected by “a layer of mist”.

The atmosphere processor is run by something “like a nuclear reactor”. When it explodes it obliterates Hadley’s Hope. But what about the alien site (which is far away and the eggs are well protected)?

What are your thoughts? Are the eggs still there? Still waiting . . .

191 Responses to Are the Eggs on LV-426 Still There?

Michelle Johnston

Nov-12-2019 12:13 PM

@hox

Your getting confused. It's well known that when A L I E N was being made they were constantly changing some of the story logic. There was a point when there were far fewer Eggs on the ship then there was a phase when there was a huge underground silo which the Eggs were contained in. Then post-film the traditions evolved.

However, what Big Dave is trying to argue as he has done so many times is that when they painstakingly designed the props for Prometheus they overlooked the size of the Jockey and the Derelict in the original film. They did not Jon Sphaits said they deliberately went for an 8-foot creature rather than a giant elephantine one for storytelling reasons. They designed the Juggernaut as being the derelict taking into account the Eggs were in the cargo bay. 

I am not denying that the traditions of A L I E N have evolved what I am saying is the decisions made on Prometheus were deliberate. I couldn't care less about the inconsistencies between the two films but I will stand up when peoples identify them as oversights. They are thought out judgements and on record as such.

I went to see ALIEN in 1979 all my friends thought Kane went down a hole in the ship into a Cave. It's only since Ridley began saying it was the cargo on the ship that everyone has started having a view on it. But if you asked Ridley over a latte has the tradition evolved I am sure he would admit it.            

If people say as they do all over the internet I am out of here that isn't the Jockey I am completely cool with that. I am the same I think Covenant is not only a routine film but the narrative logic is bollock's and dismisses Prometheus (which those involved in the film have confirmed) but I do not go on about oversights between mutagens and pathogens and positions of Cargo Bays because I know they were all deliberate choices I just don't believe in the story.

So I am not shutting down or disrespecting other peoples entitlement to like or not like something I am simply standing up for recent films and their makers and restoring the truth of how decisions came to be made.

Let's like or not like a film or elements of it but all this holier than thou armchair filmmaker stuff who knows better is frankly more often than not wrong in its assumptions as to how decisions got made.           

BigDave

Nov-12-2019 3:15 PM

@Michelle

I do tend to USE the word Oversight a bit, but i use it in the similar Context to what Hox had put in his reply, in that from the Perspective of the Fans as far as we will just have to ACCEPT certain Inconsistencies and Errors as something we have to Overlook.

ULTIMATELY as far as those who are Giving us the Narrative and Story (Producers, Writers and Director) such Inconsistencies are things they would DEEM as not really be Necessary as far as to IMPACT the Plot/Store they wish to Convey and Conclude.

While there are the ODD Difference in Scale and Aesthetic, we have to take into account what they are inferring towards.  So for example while IF we look at the Egg Hold as being something that WONT Fit inside the Ship if we was to Forensically Analyze it, or take what say Kane said as far as its a CAVE... then what it Ultimately comes down to is WHAT those who are giving us this Story/Plot have Intended and IF this is that its part of the SHIP then i guess we have to ACCEPT that and any Inconsistencies are what we would eventually have to Overlook and this is what i refer to when i bring up Oversight, as in on OUR PART...

I do however feel that UNTIL we go to the Derelict again or get a Conclusion that shows us the Ship and HOW/WHEN/WHY it ended up on LV-426 and Until such would show us the Cargo Hold is Part of the Ship then Fans will Speculate on Theories that it MAY-NOT or CAN-NOT be a Part of the Ship.... Until we get a Conclusion then we have to Accept what the Writers/Directors Intend...  But also to BARE in Mind what they Intend can Change.... such as what happened with the Ancient Derelict and its Cargo that if we go by what they NOW seem to intend is something that as of the Year 2105 is NOT on LV-426.....  despite this being the Case Prior to Alien Covenant.

And so i think Until we get a Conclusion on Screen the Debates for what ever reason or Evidence will Continue over the Cargo Hold and How Long the Ship has been on LV-426.

So at the Moment i think Fans are Entitled to make their own Conclusions, or Accept what the Story is as its Told, even if that means they have to Overlook Certain Flaws.

Oh i will Apologize for my use of CAPS and Bold... i do this NOT to Force a Point but to make Certain Points Stand out against the Back Drop of my Many Many Words and not the Best use of Grammar ;)  Because otherwise some KEY points would get Lost like a Needle in a Haystack LOL

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-12-2019 3:49 PM

"However, what Big Dave is trying to argue"

I am sorry if you Interpret my comments as this, i Never Intend to set out as though its a Argument ;)

"They did not Jon Sphaits said they deliberately went for an 8-foot creature rather than a giant elephantine one for storytelling reasons"

Certainly and this is also what i have mentioned before, that for the STORY you needed Certain things to explain HOW/WHY would the Human Characters be Connected, and having a Giant Elephantine Race who Cant Communicate with Mankind or Shares NO History would mean that you have to come up with a PLOT to HOW the Humans would END UP going to the Same System as in ALIEN and then ONCE you have given Answers to ALIEN its where do the Expand on the Space Jockey if it was a ALIEN RACE that has No Way to Communicate with Mankind etc... or History.

The SCALE was just something they thought would be Convenience as the intention of SPAIGHTS was a 15ft Engineer, then this went down to 12ft and then 10ft but they decided to go for whats Practical and to NOT be using Special Effects and so we END up with 8ft Engineers for a similar Reason we END up with Toxic Avenger Fifield.

Some Changes they had No Real Reason for, such as Aesthetically to have the Ship a little Different Internally (Pilot Room Architecture) it was said it was a case of to TONE down the HR Giger Aesthetic a little.

some Changes came about for Plot Convenience such as RS wanted a Scene with the Juggernaught Rolling and so a C Shape was Used instead of the U Shape as that would not Roll.

some Changes are likely for Budget and Time, and so it would have been Easier to have the Cargo Layout on the Same Floor, compared to Extra Cost and Time to show them Enter the Ship and have to go through Corridors that would Snake Around on a Incline, or have Ladders or a Engineer Lift System to other Floors so it was likely a Convenience.

And so while this means there are Differences, those who are Working on the Movie especially as far as Director goes, then its a Case of such things really should not MATTER in Terms of the Story they are trying to TELL...  Ridley Scott had indicated the Ships are NOT the same but Related, well he had inferred they are Separated by Hundreds of Years (bit odd) and they are Brothers, his point really is that the Derelict is a Engineer Ship, the Pilot is Related to the Engineers also, the Differences in Ships does-not mean they Belong to Different Races

What he says could be just a way to get around that there was Differences for a Number of Reasons but we should Consider them to be Very Related and NOT that they are Totally Different...

If they had SCRAPPED the Draft that Lindeloff had did and decided to Produce what Jon Spaights had done, and Replicate what was Described then the SHIPS would have been Very Much Similar, the Space Jockey also similar size to the Engineers.

Plots Change, and Props/Sets can Change a Little to Suit the Needs of the Director and Production as far as to be Convenient to the Next Installment.

By that IF we got another Movie where we are shown a 8ft Engineer gets infected by a Face Hugger, then he Climbs into the Seat of a Juggernaught with the Same Layout as in Prometheus/Alien Covenant, (Pilot Room) and then we see this Ship Flying towards a GAS Giant and then we Cut to the Pilot Getting Chest Busted and then see the Ship Crash on a Similar looking Moon and the LAST SHOT is we see a Chest Buster Run Off then we go down a Shaft/Tunnel and see a EGG Cargo Hold that is NOT as Huge as in ALIEN.

Then if this is the Conclusion, and its what Ridely Scott says is what shows the Space Jockey Fate, then we have to Accept it for what it is, even IF it does-not match what we saw in Alien to a High %.

We can all HOPE they would Pay Attention to Matching the Details, but that does-not mean this is what we would GET and if we get a Conclusion as above then we have to OVERLOOK the Differences, or just Boycott it and Pretend it NEVER happened which is down to what Each Fan wants to Accept or Not.

The Debates and Images i was showing was really to TRY and look at IF or IF-NOT the Egg Cargo Hold would FIT on the Ship so as to see if a Separate Silo could NOT be Ruled out, i have Accepted that in Likely Hood we have to Accept its Part of the Ship and a Oversight (something we have to Overlook as far as Inconsistency)

It was NOT really to Connect the Juggernaught or Discus this Ship, as i was keeping it open to that we have TWO different Ships but both Similar and by the Same Race... a Boeing 737 and Airbus A380 would look VERY Similar to someone who had NEVER seen a Plane before, and while Slightly Different they are the Same.. they are Aeroplanes intended for the Same Purpose.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-12-2019 4:09 PM

"So I am not shutting down or disrespecting other peoples entitlement to like or not like something I am simply standing up for recent films and their makers and restoring the truth of how decisions came to be made."

Absolutely and i consider you comments as such, and with respect.

I am actually one of those are Accept the Changes, all i do is try to look at Each Side of the Story, and try and Find some Reasons to Support Different Sides/Views...

I fully Understand and have agreed with Changes and what it is that RS was intending, and things Change as they go along for what ever Purpose, and these Usually are a Change in the Narrative Story, and Changes to be Practical so that Story can be Told.

I am NO Expert or Pretend to be, i have a Passion for the Franchise and i do like to Look in Depth at things.. but then i always to bring about the OVERSIGHT Comment which is a Closing Statement usually to Consider that Regardless of what we may Want/Think or See, that we have to really just Pay Attention to what we are being TOLD and that Discrepancies are things we should OVERLOOK and not be Expected to Nit Pick as then you End Up making some Cases against what they are SHOWING us, but i still think its Fine to  Take Part in Discussions..

ELSE what we should have is Ridley Scott make all the Prequels and ALIEN into some 3 Part Novel a BIBLE where he is Every Word is Gospel and then END any debates and so there would be NO Point to such things....

For the Record while i may offer and look at different sides to each Perspective.... i actually like Prometheus, my Disappointments mainly (apart from some Execution) is our Engineers are a Little on Smaller Side... but as i made a Case Before... NOT every Human is between 5ft10-6ft Tall, so while we have 7.5-8ft Humans... WHY-NOT 9-10ft Engineers and then the Rest of the Size Differences... well as Kane Said... "looks like its Grown out of the Chair"

The other Issue is the David the Creator... i understand the Reasons for it, and it makes Sense, but i feel they could have had him Create something Similar but that is more Superior and THIS would have Fitted the ARC and Story while Maintaining the Mystery of ALIEN and also in showing HOW it was David had Created his OWN Monster we could get a Insight to HOW the Engineers had Created their own Many Thousands of Years Prior.

Its a Shame Really as i think IF it was that RS was allowed to Fully go with what his Plans was after Prometheus then we could have got something Different, but i Understand the PLOT was Too Bold and Complications are bound to happen as far as getting a RIGHT Story and so with Alien Covenant it was a more SIMPLE/BASIC Plot to Follow and Execute.

PS... Sorry Chli if i have taken this OFF TOPIC

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-12-2019 6:22 PM

@Chli

Back to the Derelict and Aliens...

We can Assume the HOLE is near/in the Arm Section as it appears the Jordons had been looking up at this Section, just prior to Parking the  ATV/Transport.

I have attempted to Estimate where they could have Entered.

NOW this looks like some Damage from Inside but it could be down to a Meteor Strike, we cant also RULE OUT that this was not there in ALIEN but then WHY would the Nostromo Crew had Entered the other Openings However?

I would however be Drawn to Assume it had Happened after ALIEN and it looks like something had Exploded in that AREA but something that was not so MASSIVE that it had not Created a Massive HOLE

So that leaves us with some Possibilities to HOW/WHEN and WHY that Hole had been Made ;)

Also if the Derelict can sustain such Damage then the Potential is that a NUKE would do more, but the Juggernaught appeared to Suffer Little Damage with the Collision with the Prometheus... But maybe Externally the Ships are Tough but from Inside or/and Over Time they are Weaker.

So the Survival of any EGGS if its Part of the Ship would depend on HOW FAR away the Derelict it.. a 40MT Blast would Destroy only up to the 40KM Mark (that would not be Critical Damage Either) as Actual Fireball would be about 6KM so NOT as big as Nebraska

So again we cant Nit-Pick over Particulars because if it was a 40MT Nuke then if the Derelict is over say 20KM away then YES something could be Salvaged but maybe would be Radioactive...

Considering a Blast the Size of Nebraska and Damage to the Derelict in ALIENS then it would be a NOT MUCH of a Chance of Salvaging anything from INSIDE the Derelict.

None of it really matters much, because IF they give us a Movie that Visits the LV-426/Derelict Site after Hadleys Hopes Destruction then they could have it that the SHIP had suffered Little Damage.... or even the Cargo Hold is Safely Underground.

In either OPTION... we would have to Accept it, regardless if we are like... NO WAY it would have Survived or NO-WAY thats Part of the Ship etc.

If they want to Explore the Eggs on the Derelict after Hadleys Hope Destruction they would make whatever Conveniences for such a PLOT... Contrary to what we may have been shown Prior.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Gavin

Nov-12-2019 7:40 PM

@ BigDave,

I'm pretty sure that Cameron's inference is that Russ and Ann entered the derelict through a hole caused by and nearby the collapsed starboard arm.

Michelle Johnston

Nov-12-2019 7:56 PM

BigDave

Sweetheart Oversight means 

"an unintentional failure to notice or do something."

It's very simple what you keep on calling oversights are not they are deliberate choices.

However, what I am not questioning is your right to do the analysis to show the differences. 

To be entirely candid with you the reason I wrote a very long forward to my work on these dimensioning issues is to put on record I knew so I did not get bogged down in this stuff. When I found having 130 Ovoids in a Juggernaut did not get any comments from anybody I removed it to the notes.

When I travel and meet people who are ordinary filmgoers and mention the sort of things people obsess about on this site they look at me blankly so I am also trying to represent the silent majority who do not give two hoots about this stuff. 

I am sure people find the idea of going to the trouble of writing two novels which challenge what an intelligent creation looks like bizarre I find the majority of stuff people write about here profoundly uninteresting. But to defend those people here most fan sites do the same they do not talk story, character, atmosphere or themes they talk fabric.   

I will keep out of these threads in future and I apologise to chli for offering my simple 1979 view of things. 

 

BigDave

Nov-13-2019 6:29 AM

@Gavin

Certainly there was no Real Explanation other than it just Happened, we are then NOT supposed to Wonder to HOW only that Section became Damaged... to keep with his Idea and if it NEEDED a Explanation then they could say  it was caused merely by a Meteor.

It looks like it was Blown from the Inside, but that does-not have to be the Case, but what i was referring to is that the HOLE does allow for Speculation, and Potentially another Story to Explain HOW it came to be, the Same can be said for the HOLE that Kane Climbed down.. it could be explored in a number of ways, but likely will get NO explanation.

"an unintentional failure to notice or do something."

Thanks... i will admit sometimes i do maybe USE the wrong words,  my point of what i mean would be from OUR POV in that any Inconsistencies that we can pick up on, that some are Intended or some are Forced, and that IF these allow us to Argue/Debate that Certain things cant be like (thats NOT a Suit, it looks a Skeleton, and that is a CAVE its to big and Kane said it was a Cave) then what i am saying is that we have to Overlook any Flaws and Accept what the Writers/Director is trying to show us and so maybe YES then using Oversight is a Error by me and i should used another Word.

And so what i am saying is there are Changes, Differences that Happen that to the Viewer may seem Errors, but in Many Cases they are Changes that are Forced, or Purposely made to be more Practical.

To FIX those Discrepancies, they would have had to SHOW a Ship and Explore it having a Cargo Hold Under the Pilot Room which they would then have to make the Ship Larger, or Show the Cargo Hold as Smaller than in ALIEN... but they NEVER did this for reasons such as to NOT be directly connected to ALIEN, for reasons to TONE down the Aesthetic, but if they ever SHOW the Derelict Event then the same applies, they COULD reveal a Larger Part of the Ship, they could make the Hold Smaller... and what ever they do, any differences we would have to Accept and Overlook as it should not (as far as the Director etc) have any real effect on the Outcome of the Story.

And so when i use Oversight then that was maybe the Incorrect Word to use, as what i mean is from our POV in that any differences we would have to Accept and Overlook the Fine Details.

Lots of things get Changed for Convenience and PLOT and Practicality such as the U shape to C shape for the Juggernaught as a U Shape would not ROLL for that intended Crash Scene.

Cameron's Dome-less Xenomorphs, due to the Clear Part of the Costume not being Vigorous enough to withstand the Action Scenes and would become Damage or Come apart and so they was Removed for purely that Reason.

They had intended 15ft Space Jockey Race/Engineers, but then 15ft really is Massive! (I estimate the Space Jockey at 13ft), when Production Came it seemed they intended for 9-10ft Engineers.    But to USE such Engineers would mean LARGER Props such as Cryo-Chambers and to then Rely on CGI and Special Effects and so for Practicality they decided to just stick with the 7ft Actors to Create a Illusion of 8ft

Ridley Scott knows the Space Jockey was not 8ft, he had Decided that to convey even 10ft would require more Budget and Time and other Problems, that 8ft would NOT and so the decision was made,  For him it DID-NOT matter if this would NOT match the Space Jockey Size, for him it should not effect the PLOT/STORY that he is intending to show and at that point the Space Jockey was going to be a Mystery Anyway, but he had Confirmed for all Intensive Purposes the Space Jockey was a Engineer.

And so we are Expected to Accept and Overlook the differences, and for me then using Oversight was the Wrong Word and for that i Apologize for that and if it is Mislead/Mis-Interperted

So in a Nutshell i am kind of agreeing with what you are saying, i NOW understand the Context of using Oversight instead of saying we have to Overlook things so the Wrong Word Choice was used, which i will try to Refrain from using again.

I take part in debates about Errors, Sizes for just the debate and Speculation, and that these could be Explored/Changed for example they allow for the Introduction of another Race, or Taller Engineers etc.. but i always also Mention that we would likely have to ACCEPT what the Director etc is trying to Convey to us and Overlook any Inconsitancies as NOT really being Necessary to the Plot as far as the Writers/Directors etc and we have to Overlook them (i would have said consider them a Oversight on our Part, but i understand that is the Wrong Word Choice now).

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Nov-13-2019 6:46 AM

"I will keep out of these threads in future and I apologise to chli for offering my simple 1979 view of things"

No Need to Apologize everyone has different views some get Bogged Down on the Visuals/Details, when the Story is whats more Important ;)  I look forwards to reading your Version, and thank you for the Effort and Passion that has gone into it.

"I am sure people find the idea of going to the trouble of writing two novels which challenge what an intelligent creation looks like bizarre"

I have yet to Read them, i think its sounds a Interesting Take, and its always interesting to take on board other peoples Interpretations, and what we get on here is Fans do have some Issues with what is being presented as far as those who Work on the Movies, Ultimately regardless of any Inconsistency, we have to Accept what the Director and his Team are Intending at the Point of Wrapping up the Movie on the Cutting Floor....  Until we get a Conclusion then some fans will Speculate or Wishfully hope what we get is Different to what is Intended as that does-not reflect what some people had interpreted from the Movies... but WHEN/IF we get a Conclusion then we have to ACCEPT what ever we are TOLD as far as Story more so than what is Shown in Conflict to previous Plans or Inconsistencies.

@chli

I apologize if i have derailed some Threads... the Reason i recently tried to look in Detail at the Derelict Sizes was to Frame it in Context to the OT, where it seems INDEED the Cargo Hold would NOT have FITTED and its IF we accept this or it is Revealed then in Context to the OT then the Likely-hood of their being some Eggs that can Salvaged after ALIENS would be Greatly Increased in comparison to if the Revelation would be as RS has said, that the Cargo Hold is part of the Ship.

I think it would  not matter Regardless because if they did in Context to the OT a Movie that goes back to LV-426 and the Derelict then for the Convenience of Plot the Derelict could be left as IN-TACT as they wish to suit their Story.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Nov-13-2019 11:18 AM

I don't think we need to apologize all the time. Let's just discuss, high and low. Either you find something interesting and you take part in the discussion or you just skip it.

This topic was about the eggs on LV-426. Which came first, the egg or the xenomorph? :)

BigDave

Nov-13-2019 3:41 PM

"This topic was about the eggs on LV-426. Which came first, the egg or the xenomorph? :)"

Was that not really more this Topic ;)

But i get what you mean, and so regarding the OT i have already outlined what i had to add to it before, the Recent Attempts and looking back at the Cargo Size was Purely to see if any Credibility to the Underground Facility/Hold Theory.

I think in Reality its something we are Free to Discus until we get a Conclusion, or we just accept what Ridley Scott has said.

Ultimately as far as "What are your thoughts? Are the eggs still there? Still waiting"

It depends if this for us to Speculate or Not, and i think at the End of the Day.. the Eggs will be there Waiting if this is WHAT the Director/Production Company want to Explore should they wish to go back to LV-426 in a Time-Line set after 2179 ;)

I mean Ripley Died Right? End of Story.... but they found a Plot to Bring her Back and so Regardless of what happened to LV-426 we cant rule out the Eggs still being there its not like LV-426 went!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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