Close
Trending Articles
Cold Iron Studios' Alien Game
Cold Iron Studios Alien Game
New / Upcoming Alien Titles
Upcoming Alien Titles
Alien Movies
Alien Movies
Featured Content
Scified Network
Are the Eggs on LV-426 Still There?

Are the Eggs on LV-426 Still There?

5 Upvotes191 RepliesUpvoteAdd A Reply
Forum Topic

chli

Apr-05-2019 3:30 AM

As we all know, at the end of Aliens the atmosphere processor and Hadley’s Hope are blown up. But what about the site where the juggernaut and the space jockey are? And what about the eggs?

The colonists at Hadley’s Hope have not encountered any problems until Newt’s parents get the coordinates (from Burke) to investigate a site. This site is far away from the colony. It takes the family some time to get there with their vehicle.

The climate on LV-426 is terrible. It’s cold (“well below zero”). There are poisonous fumes and no oxygen. The inside of the juggernaut is open to the climate outside. However, the eggs are situated far below ground level (“a cave or something”). It’s warm (“like the goddam tropics”). And the eggs are protected by “a layer of mist”.

The atmosphere processor is run by something “like a nuclear reactor”. When it explodes it obliterates Hadley’s Hope. But what about the alien site (which is far away and the eggs are well protected)?

What are your thoughts? Are the eggs still there? Still waiting . . .

191 Responses to Are the Eggs on LV-426 Still There?

BigDave

Apr-16-2019 3:04 AM

I think there are some Interesting ideas... a thing to remember is there have been a lot of changes regarding the Role/Origins of the Eggs from Inception (Starbeast) to where we are now (Alien Covenant).

I think many fans had different ideas about what the Origins should be and not everyone is pleased by the Prequels, sometimes maybe its wishful thinking to alter the route that seems implied.. and i think most would agree the David Creates the Xenomorph route is not the way to go!

The Ambiguity of the Movies, with regards to Clues/Easter Eggs that are unexplained... the flaws in Aesthetic and Scale of the Ships and Space Jockey/Engineers do leave it open to speculate differences.

So indeed the HUGE oversight that is the Egg Silo, is something that some fans just cant accept as part of the ship regardless of what is told..  because what is shown DEFIES what we are expected to believe.

As Gavin pointed out with the Bombardment Scene, when looking at the Juggernaught in Alien Covenant and the Schematics in Prometheus, its easy to see that the Cargo Holds  on these ships are like 3X less Tall, and Vastly Smaller in terms of Width/Depth when we look at the Egg Chamber in ALIEN... so these Egg Silos CANT fit on the underside of the Juggernaught, and when working the Size of the Juggernaught to a Human and then Derelict then the Juggernauts are LARGER than the Derelict.

This arises because indeed the Silo was supposed to be separate to the Ship.... so what we have to do is try and think about what was Ridley Scott and the Alien Production thinking about when Producing those sets... and WHAT would happen if Ridley Scott got more of a Budget and Time to showcase the Ship Separate..

What would have been the Space Jockey Fate?, and were would the Derelict had been in relation to where the Egg Silo was located?

So indeed the Separate Egg Storage Facility is open to debate, and maybe something that could be introduced... the Problem with David being the Creator is HOW would such a Egg Silo be introduced?   If we go for a Separate Facility?

There is just by Chance a Storage Facility on LV-426 that David then thinks "that would be perfect to store my Eggs on" and then its HOW the Space Jockey Ended up on top of this Egg Silo with the Derelict!

If we ASSUME and Accept that the Egg Silo is separate and underground, then on ONE Hand it makes it more Plausible that the Egg Chamber could be there after the Destruction of Hadley's Hope. While on the OTHER Hand it opens it up to speculate HOW Large such a Underground Facility is, and how many Entrances, or HOW MANY of these Underground Facilities are there?

The other things accepting a Separate Egg Silo would open up is...  

1) This Storage Facility is where Engineers take there Finalized Results/Eggs from their Experiments for Storage, away from LV-223.

2) The Engineers used these Eggs from LV-426 to then set up a place to Experiment on them on LV-223

My interpretation is different and more in line with what i feel the Prequels intended and had shown..

But everyone can have a different interpretation to the Mural and Fresco from Prometheus.  They are all connected and so its open due to the Ambiguity as in what ORDER is everything placed.

I think a thing to consider with the Prequels which includes the Unused Drafts, is they appear to be running with the Egg Cargo Holds on the Ships Plot... despite the Drastic Size Difference...  Which we are supposed to accept as a Oversight, such as the Space Jockey being nearly Twice the Size of our Engineers.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

hox

Apr-16-2019 8:00 AM

How about the Juggernaut settles on LV426 and – by the magic of alien technology – creates a silo underneath, for whatever reason? This, folks, would be biomechanical engineering at its finest. I'd love to see how the Juggernauts are created/born and how they sneakily excavate millions of tons of rock to produce subterranean Cathedrals of Death...

In a similar vein, imagine if the Engineers plopped a little turnip-sized pyramid on the ground and it grew into the magnificent structures we see in Prometheus. They are the gardeners of the cosmos, after all.

Leto

Apr-16-2019 10:10 AM

hox

 

Good thoughts! Pryramids from Prometheus can be some dead species. In StarBeast Nostromo crew hiding from the sandstorm behind a rock. After storm the rock actually turned out to be a skeleton of giant alien. I think - this another point of Prometheus from StarBeast.

Gavin

Apr-16-2019 11:53 AM

@ Hox,

Your idea suits the possibility I propose that the Space Jockey could have been one of the ancient Xenomorph pilots that were tasked with seeding the devolved eggs that would carry on their race.

Having adopted biomechanical technology this ancient race seals their doom and their extinction, but uses said technology to create a nano-sized viral AI substance - the black goo that will imprint onto any organism a devolved version of the genetic template of their species, but also holds records of all of their culture, discoveries and history - the intention being that should their "children" be allowed to flourish they will in time unlock the secret to accessing said information and regain their consciousness and intelligence.

The eggs would be the purest form of these devolved children, transported throughout the galaxy/universe by the bizarre sexual/mental/emotional bond of the last remnants of the former members of this race; foster parents in the male pilot and the female vessel.

On LV-426, like many other worlds and moons the mother-vessel, the juggernaut landed and, as Hox suggests augments a cave with biomechanical growths, or allows such a biomechanical growth to mature, a growth which uses the nano-sized viral AI substance to produce thousands of eggs.

Unfortunately for the Space Jockey pilot before he and his vessel/mate can seed another cache of eggs on another world/moon the pilot falls victim to one of his children.

BigDave

Apr-16-2019 7:28 PM

@hox

Indeed i think if we consider such a concept... it takes their Technology to a whole level of Alieness.... something which HR Giger had touched upon when he thought the Derelict was GROWN ;)

@Gavin

I think the ideas you have are kind of interesting and maybe a way to go.. regardless of if we have the Xenomorph Elevated or introduce something New or have the Space Jockey as NOT a Engineer... i think getting to something Dark and very Alien/Lovecraftian is the way to go.

Prometheus however opened up a lot of themes... some are worried about all the Religious Stuff... but dont worry i dont think the Emphasis would have been on... about connecting the Bible Literally!    I think a lot of people OVERLOOK that David is the Proxy! what we are seeing with David could be the Repeating Theme and Answers.

(and so God Created Adam and Eve, so he can praise and love them and allow them eternal life in Paradise)

Is this really the Creation Point, as far as replace GOD with the Engineers?  The Sumerian Mythos is OLDER and basically shows Mankind are Created to merely replace a Rebellious Slave Race!

I feel the Franchise is more closer to that.... and so in this context when  looking at HR Gigers Concepts, we could get the impression that the Space Jockey Humanoids are playing a Role to Sacrifice some of their kind and Pilot those Bio-Mechanical Ships to Seed those Eggs across the Galaxy...   we can ponder some other Race/Species is at the TOP of the Hierarchy and they require those Humanoids for this Purpose but in return those Humanoids are granted LIFE, Limited Knowledge and Technology... like maybe how the Engineers Granted Mankind.

So then in this case, we could look at those Humanoids (Engineers) had Rebelled and then became the New Gods, and maybe Created Mankind for a not so Benevolent Reason... or those who Created/Used the Engineers had Created Mankind to replace the Engineers.

I think in any Continuation/Changes we would have to keep to some of the Themes the Prequels explored but then look at how we can TAKE them to the Next Level, rather than THROW them out.

Regarding the SEX.... shame on YOU!!! LOL

But indeed a lot of HR Gigers works are very related and the whole Xenomorph, especially as far as ALIEN was very Sexual and Sadistic as far as its Agenda/Procreation.

When we look at HR Gigers Mural for ALIEN, then indeed it does come across very Sexually Reproductive, where it depicts the Ships are Giant Reproductive Vessels.

The Question in this CONTEXT is how... when we look at HR Gigers Mural, and if we accept its indicated the Ships or Cargo Hold Produce the Eggs, then how does this happen?

For most LIFE it requires a Male/Female or certainly a Egg and Sperm..... it appears that the Deacon in Prometheus required these, but one had to be Mutated by the Black Goo.

David required Dr Shaws Egg Cells to achieve his Xenomorph... I had envisioned a few years ago if the Engineers Needed Females to be connected to their Ships to Produce their Horrors via use of their Egg Cells.

What if the Space Jockey is Female? 

Or if not... is the Pilot Male and not only is he the Pilot who is trapped in his Chair... but also the Provider of the Seed (Sperm) to allow for those Eggs to be Created?

I certainly think if HR Giger was alive then its his Twisted Head/Mind that Writers should be getting into as far as how to have explored the connection between that Bio-Mechanical Technology, the Space Jockey the Xenomorph/Eggs and WHY they would Seed Worlds.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Apr-17-2019 11:31 AM

One interesting thing is that most people who watched Alien back in the days probably didn’t notice all the sexual symbolism which was an important part of Giger’s work. It wasn’t explicit and Scott also wanted to show as little as possible of the monster. I wonder if all the sexual elements subconsciously affected the audience in some way?

As for Christian symbolism, since this topic is about eggs :), the egg symbolizes birth or rebirth of Christ (Easter). In this context, we have the (perpetual) rebirth of the xenomorph . . .

Gavin

Apr-17-2019 12:57 PM

It is actually from Giger's art that I imagine what the Xenomorph once restored with their intelligence would look like...

But back to the topic in hand,

I still contend that the eggs were discovered on LV-426 by the Engineers and experimented on and weaponized on LV-223, with the derelict possibly being one of the xenomorph vessels responsible for planting the eggs on there, only to fall victim to his own cargo/offspring. I also contend that the eggs discovered by the Jordens and the Hadley's Hope colonists in the broken arm of the derelict (eusocial variant) were not the same as those discovered by Kane (egg-morphing variant).

As for the fate of the eggs, I prefer to believe they have become radiated and no longer truly viable.

Maybe we could revisit LV-426 one more time to uncover this fate and its consequences with the revelation in said movies closing scenes that there are many more caches of eggs out in the vastness of space; thus instating a sense of overwhelming threat to the franchise and allowing sequels/prequels to move beyond LV-426 and expand/explore the wide mythology.

Maybe this what Neill Blomkamp had in mind. But of course, the main case of contention for those against Blomkamp's proposed movie is the return of Ripley and the possible retcon of Alien 3 hinted at from Hicks and Newts return.

If however Blomkamp could remove said characters from his proposed movie and explore what I mentioned above, then I would be onboard for his movie being the next Alien movie.

BigDave

Apr-17-2019 4:32 PM

"I still contend that the eggs were discovered on LV-426 by the Engineers and experimented on and weaponized on LV-223,"

I think if we throw out Alien Covenant, then its something to be considered...   but the only way that makes sense really would be that the Engineers Discover the Derelict and the Egg Silo, and they Re-Engineer their own Technology and Experiments from all of this.

Which then shows us the Derelict and Space Jockey are NOT connected to the Engineers, but then we still have to then ask WHO is the Space Jockey then?

If the Derelict is created by the Xenomorph, and they enslave the Space Jockey as Pilots... i think its NOT the best way for a Intelligent Species to Seed their own kind, by relying on a Species that CAN be infected by the Xenomorph Ovamorph/Eggs.

I still think introducing another Species that are the Creators of the Derelict/Bio-Mechanical Technology would be something NEW to introduce..  Then these use the Space Jockey as a Slave Race...

Or THEY are the Space Jockey...  I am just not convinced the Xenomorph would be best to be used as some RACE at the Top of this Chain.....

I guess maybe if the Xenomorph has another Stage in their Life-Cycle where they Evolve a little we could accept it.  But then its HOW do we fit the Queen in with this?

Apart from a Experiment or Hybrid/Evolution that takes a different path.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

SuperAlien

Apr-17-2019 6:05 PM

The question is: what was first, the black goo or the xenomorph?

IMO the black goo was first, it was created by the Engineers but because it was unbelievably chaotic and impossible to control once it got out of the controlled environment, proving catastrophic for the Engineers themselves, they created, with the black goo, the xenomorph. The xenomorph,  with its lifecycle was easier to handle and although it was equally dangerous as the black goo, it was in a way controllable: each xenomorph needed a host and the eggs could be kept in stasis under a layer of blue mist. The eggs could be easily destroyed if needed. So, while it killed all meat, as the black goo, the aftermath effects did not make the planet uninhabitable. 

For the Engineers the xenomorph was like the ultimate remote controlled weapon, and, even if they did not come to really worship it, they honoured it as an esteemed achievement,  a trophy. It was an AI after all, so some intelligence can be credited to the xenomorph.

Of course, we can claim also the other possibility, the black goo was extracted from the xenomorph somehow, this could be explained by the lack of eggs on LV223, since the Engineers were now only concerned to produce more black goo. Whom then that sculptured head from the Prometheus urns room belonged to? The first Engineers who discovered the first xenomorph egg? Where the urns from that room the first ever created, with the highest purity and potential? Will we ever find out?

I see Gavin that you would prefer a hard reboot of the franchise, but I wonder what would be the benefit of having cache of eggs spread around the universe? How do you see future films based on this hypothesis? Like a perpetual remake of Aliens, with Colonial Marines sent over and over to eradicate the xenomorphs? However this hypothesis might be appealing to Disney, at some point I see even an Alien-Star Wars crossover possible.

I do prefer to know that only few xenomorphs are at large somewhere, thus making the struggle to capture, not kill them more thrilling.

One of the things I disliked about Aliens was the large number of xenomorphs, larger than the number of bullets brought on by the Colonial Marines. I feel it was Aliens and the subsequent Aliens comics that diminished the xenomorph, not the fact that he was created by the Engineers or even by David (although I am still convinced that David has nothing to do with the eggs from LV426).

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

setaverde

Apr-17-2019 8:30 PM

I pay to watch a Xeno crying David's death, while he declaims, with his long extended mouth, a Shakespeare poem:

"Acid tears washed by the rain!"

chli

Apr-17-2019 10:20 PM

I don’t see the xenomorph as intelligent as you propose, Gavin, and I don’t see them flying about in spacecraft with the purpose of destroying worlds. I see them as a species which has adapted superbly to the harshness of the galactic environment. It’s an extremely viable species - a survivor.

But I buy the idea that the engineers discovered the species and then experimented with it and extracted the black goo (the mutagenic pathogen) from it. This was probably in order to make transportation safer. Instead of carrying lethal xenomorph eggs, they now carry its DNA in protective urns. The outcome is still the same, though: total extinction of unwanted life forms.

Furthermore, the eggs found by the Jordens must have been of the same kind as the ones Kane found - unless there are different kinds of races or perhaps different species within the genus xenomorph. In the novelization, Russ and Anne go down a ramp to a space somewhere beneath the cockpit. The egg-morphing scene was deleted in the theatrical version and then put back in again in the director’s cut, but it might be possible that, in an isolated environment, the xenomorph can change both sex and way of creating offspring.

BigDave

Apr-18-2019 12:10 AM

"The question is: what was first, the black goo or the xenomorph?"

Certainly is a important Question, one that in Prometheus it appeared to indicate the GOO predates the Xenomorph (considering the Xeno was Thousands of Years old at this time) and Alien Covenant even further suggests the GOO predates the Xenomorph.

There was a connection, where prior to AC we would be looking at the GOO either came from the Xenomorph or a Ancient Related Organism, or the GOO came from another unrelated means and is merely a Creation Tool (most likely).

I can agree with your last post daliens ;)

I recommend for those who have not, or have not for a while... to go and read Alien Engineers, and also Paradise Drafts then consider what is the GOO and i feel it explains it all quite simple.   The Weyland File released after Prometheus and Alien Covenant kind of Muddy the Waters a little to much.... prior to those the GOO was very simple really.

"Furthermore, the eggs found by the Jordens must have been of the same kind as the ones Kane found "

Again chli i think Alien Engineers acts as a Rosetta Stone to Decoding Prometheus and the Franchise.

It indicates the Engineers had Engineered 7-8 Variants of the Xenomorph that are stored in Separate Cargo Holds. If we take that on board then we could look at the ALIEN Eggs and ALIENS Eggs are TWO Variants each with a slightly different appearance and method of Procreation.

If we look at that, then we could speculate maybe there was more than TWO Variants on the Derelict and this could open up for the Discovery and Introduction to another Type of Xenomorph.   I assume this idea from Alien Engineers was used as far as the Various Temple Mounds in Prometheus, i think we could speculate that Each had a different Strain of Black Goo.... so potentially the ONE has a base of Deacon DNA, the other (David took his Juggernaught from) had a base of Neomorph DNA.

I think a theory about the Xenomorph being the ones pulling the stings, for me in part is interesting.  But i just dont get the impression that the Organism that we see as displayed in ALIENS shows any signs of Creating Technology like the Derelict.

The Space Jockey is very connected as it seems like the Ship was Tailor Made so that he could PILOT it...  I think when we are looking at WHO is the TOP of the Hierarchy i think the BIG Question is to ponder WHO BY/HOW was that Technology Created and for me the Space Jockey or some Race/Machine we have yet to see would seem to fit the bill more than the Xenomorph... this does-not mean we cant have a Organism that is RELATED to the Xenomorph.

I would even think if we explore that some other Species uses the Xenomorph as Hosts as Interesting.... if these are used to clear a World...  then the Starbeast either uses the Xenomorphs or Egg Morphs for some purpose to Procreate their kind (Starbeasts).

Revealing a Race like this that can Control the Xenomorph and be a Race that has Total Control over them could make the Xenomorph more of a Threat... if not less Unpredictable.

I would say the Ultimate aim of those Human Companies are to CONTROL the Xenomorph too, and Re-Engineer from it to benefit their own Genetics, and Technology... which we could see as what the Engineers could have done in the past.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Apr-18-2019 1:07 AM

I can see where Gavin is coming from, and certainly we have to remember Originally the Starbeast was a Ancient Species that Built those Birthing Ritual/Sacrificial Pyramids, where their Species Spore/Egg Stage are kept and Hosts are used to Procreate this Intelligent Species, and indeed Ridley Scott had intended to show the Xenomorph to be more Intelligent than it was in ALIEN.

Then we come to HR Gigers Mural which was to be placed over the Egg Cargo Holds and that he suggested had Pregnant like Bio-Mechanical Bellies that would Create/Lay the Eggs... and he also said the Derelict was GROWN.

While Ambiguous....

We can see this Mural indicated the Derelict Ship has a shared Aesthetic/DNA if you would with the Xenomorph and its indicated the Ship actually Produces those Eggs.

The Humanoid Space Jockey race appear to Self Sacrifice themselves for this Organism (Xenomorph related).  This species also PILOT the ships where the Chair seems to be purposely created for that Race (Space Jockey).

I think the biggest thing to ponder is therefor.... WHO/WHY created the Ships/Technology and if it was not the Space Jockey, then WHY are the ships created to cater for them... what does the Space Jockey gain from this?

Again with the Sequels (ALIENS) and Prequels (Prometheus) we are shown things that seem to imply the Queen/Xenomorph are not a Species that then go around Creating or Growing more Ships.... but we cant rule this out.   Ridley Scott however saw the Eggs as a Bio-Weapon, and this seems to be his stance for many years.

It does appear that Originally had he got to make ALIEN 2 then we would have gone to a ALIEN World, that would have been very HR Giger, and it appeared the Xenomorph would have been revealed to had been Intelligent and have their own WORLD.

I think Gavin is toying with exploring similar....

I think maybe it could work as a Reboot of sorts...  And in the defense of his idea....  if we loaded up a Ship full of Babies with a Adult who could make sure they have everything they need but do-not teach those babies anything.  Then the World or Island you take those Babies too, so they can start a NEW would not be able to BUILD anything if they are NOT taught and would in essence become CAVEMEN..

So yes we can ask WHY cant the Xenomorphs do the same if they had the knowledge passed on by their Ancestors?

I think it would be a bit of a U-Turn to the Prequels though, and also the Xenomorph has been diminished, and maybe this could help ELEVATE them back on track?  But what does this do to the Prequels and our Engineers etc?

Why i feel introducing another Species a Bio-Mechanical One that are above the Engineers could work, where they can be used to then ELEVATE the Xenomorph.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Gavin

Apr-18-2019 3:10 AM

WARNING, this is a BigDave (sorry bro) style TLDR post...

A hard reboot is the last thing I wish for the franchise. While a remake could be superior to the original in every technical way, the fanbase would prefer the 1979 original, making such an endeavor fruitless.

As I have said before, the ideas I have and continue to propose take everything we know from the movies (IMO the one and only canon) and attempts to tie them all together into one cohesive narrative. I imagine the Alien franchise like a 1000 piece jigsaw, but with no "completed image" on the box, and only half of the pieces. Some pieces fit, some don't, and we have no idea how all the pieces are meant to fit together. But through speculation and deduction maybe we can piece together the jigsaw, possibly in a way that exceeds the originally intended "completed image"?

For example, I previous speculated, as BigDave will remember, the possibility that the egg morphing scene in Alien may have resulted in Dallas siring (after being Facehugged by the Facehugger hatched from the egg Brett was morphing into) a Queen -  as a means of tying Alien and Aliens together cohesively. But with Alien: Covenant we were shown that the Xenomorph is more adaptable than we previously thought - in Alien 3 the Alien was shown to take genetic traits from its host, but its method of reproduction/propagation remained unchanged. Covenants Neomorphs showed that the creatures could, in fact, adapt their reproduction method with the spores and spore sacs deviating away from egg and Facehugger route.

Together with the different appearance of the creature as depicted in Alien and Aliens, the conflicting forms of reproduction shown in Alien and Aliens (egg morphing and Queen), and the different points of ingress taken into the derelict this opens up the logical probability that Russ and Anne Jorden discovered a batch of eggs within the exposed arm of the derelict (the Queen variant) that differs from those discovered by Kane in the egg silo (the egg morphing variant).

Yes, we could just accept that the Jordens did, in fact, discover the egg silo as James Cameron originally intended, but the difference in appearance and reproduction method is a glaring inconsistency between the two movies. Yes, Cameron postulated that his Aliens were merely mature and had as such lost their smooth carapaces, but this was contradicted by Alien: Resurrection. I'm just trying to make the pieces of the Alien jigsaw fit together in a way that maintains the mythology we all wanted, and I believe we still want.

As Chli contends, and I agree, David creating the Alien is a BAD idea. But it also flies in the face of the continuity we have been shown. In Prometheus, we not only see a fresco depicting a Xenomorph and its lifecycle but in its closing scene, we see that one is born, through a somewhat elaborated and contrived version of the very same lifecycle from said fresco (Shaw = egg, Trilobite = Facehugger, Deacon = Chestburster). We were also shown by the Hammerpede's acidic blood and Fifield's original mutation that the black goo mutates whatever it contaminates with Xenomorph traits.

The black goo and LV-223 show as Janek perceived that the Engineers weaponized the Xenomorph. But which came first the eggs or the goo? Either the engineers created the goo and later developed the eggs (making the Space Jockey an unfortunate Engineer) or they discovered the eggs and developed from them the black goo (Space Jockey remains as another race). Space Jockey preferences aside, I believe the answer to this lies with the Engineers. Despite allegedly having space-faring technology 2000 years ago the Engineers are primitive - their language is Indo-European (thousands of years old), they operate their vessels with a wooden flute, and those depicted in Alien: Covenant and their city are not even modern, nevermind advanced. Together with the Engineers DNA results (gathered by Shaw and Ford), which showed us that the Engineers have human DNA, which according to Shaw predates that of modern humans suggests that the Engineers are primitive humans that somehow left Earth (with subsequent visitations possibly being to add to their number), evolved physically, and were granted sanctuary on Planet 4, with a chosen few granted biomechanical augmentation (as seen in Prometheus) to allow them to operate the space-faring technology that their primitive demeanor suggests isn't their own. So if the Juggernauts are not of Engineer origin, and the Space Jockey is, as most of us prefer, not an Engineer then who is loaning the Engineers the technology and why?

The Juggernaut in Alien shares an aesthetic with the Xenomorph, suggesting some kind of relationship between the two. Many of us, myself included, have speculated that the Juggernauts are living vessels (Farscape's Moya, Lexx, and the Vorlon ships from Babylon 5) and that the Juggernauts and their pilots are connected in more ways than just physically (emotionally, mentally, sexually). Those that align with the belief that the egg silo is a cargo bay to the derelict postulate the possibility that the vessel itself may be a surrogate mother to the eggs or the eggs' actual mother. However, the cargo bay depicted in Alien: Covenant and the Juggernaut vessels depicted therein and in Prometheus show no such bulbous cargo bay beneath the Juggernauts. Which brings us to the logical conclusion that the eggs discovered by Kane were in fact within a large subterranean structure or cave, atop of which the derelict Juggernaut docked with. Returning to the preferred choice of a non-Engineer Space Jockey and everything mentioned above we can speculate logically the possibility that the Space Jockey was responsible for planting the eggs within the structure/cave before falling victim to said eggs - the eggs of which were either planted, or possibly "laid" by the aforementioned sexual unison between the pilot and the vessel.

If the eggs were laid by the Juggernaut vessel, then this opens up the possibility that the Space Jockey and the Xenomorph are of the same species. This may seem like a stretch, especially when considering the perception many have of the Alien being a manufactured bio-weapon, but both possibilities can be true. Many have speculated the Engineers may have been sterile and unable to reproduce, but considering the likelihood they are primitive humans, and that we saw thousands, maybe millions of them on Planet 4, including females, this theory is now moot. However, if we juxtapose this theory onto the Xenomorphs it opens up a possible backstory that the Xenomorphs became sterile, likely due to augmenting their DNA with biomechanical technology... Facing extinction they developed a new method of reproduction, one which used their biomechanical technology to create a biomechanical shell - the Xenomorph we all know and love, that would be born from and acquire useful genetic traits from living hosts (being unable to reproduce themselves). This new lifecycle was made possible through a nano viral AI of which David discovered. These biomechanical shells would be devoid of intelligence, emotion, and conscience, making them the perfect biological weapon. But hidden within the nano viral AI lies the knowledge, history, and consciousnesses of the Xenomorphs of old. If the biomechanical shells are allowed to flourish they will in time develop the means of accessing said knowledge, allowing said shells to become the hosts of this knowledge and to transcend into an intelligent race - the new Xenomorphs.

Going back to the Space Jockey and the Juggernaut. If one such vessel was responsible for laying the eggs on LV-426, it is a logical deduction that they will have been other such vessels performing the same task elsewhere, opening up the possibility that there are many caches of eggs throughout the galaxy/universe. This possibility allows future sequels to avoid endlessly returning to LV-426 while at the same time magnifying the sense of dread the end of Alien left us with. For me, the first movie was an analogy for the dark unknown emptiness of space, and with the size of this void vastly overshadowing our own existence together with the possibility that we may just be the only living planet within said void is a daunting and terrifying prospect. Additionally, mankind's biggest fear is of the dark, of that seemingly endless void. Our fear imagines the darkness to be alive, filled with unknown and unspeakable terrors. But what if our fears where realized; that among the endless void of space we are the only ones left and in the shadows, there are monsters, hordes of them, hidden in every shadow waiting for us.

Finally, and again apology's for the TLDR post, despite being primitive the Engineers on Planet 4 unlocked some of the secrets of the eggs and developed a means of weaponizing them as a black goo, which would, in turn, be deployed by urns (another example of Engineer primitivity). Some have speculated that the outbreak on LV-223 was no accident. Could it be, as we were shown in Prometheus that the Juggernauts being sentient ordered the chosen Engineers on LV-223 to unleash the xenomorph weapon on Earth, and remembering that Earth was their homeworld some of the Engineers rebelled against those fearful of the Xenomorph, releasing the black goo on the brethren? It is also possible that said rebellion and the abandonment of weaponizing the black goo came from the Engineers somehow using the destructive nature of the xenomorph to instead create life, as depicted in Prometheus' opening scene. Such heresy could explain Davids decision to bombard the Engineer city on Planet 4 if he had somehow uncovered the nature of the black goo and its intended purpose either through his contact with the substance or his experimentation with it using Holloway and Shaw.

BigDave

Apr-18-2019 11:25 AM

I think in  context to the OT and looking at some of the discussion on here certainly regarding as Gavin had mentioned the Possibility of their being more than just ONE place were the Eggs are Sourced.

If we look back Prior to the Prequels, say if we are debating things now like say 10 years ago or more, then indeed when we look at ALIEN in context to prior to the Prequels, then we really cant assume there is ONLY the One Place for those Eggs?.

If we look at the Derelict/Space Jockey connection as some Bio-Weapon then we have to ask (back then) against WHO and what conflict... because if we look at those Eggs as a Engineered Bio-Weapon then the likely hood of that Derelict Ship being the ONLY place they are STORED, or indeed that LV-426 is the ONLY place those Eggs are STORED.. would appear to be Unlikely, so POTENTIALLY we can assume there was MORE Ships with the Cargo, or MORE Places with the Eggs Stored, did they Engineer/Store them in ONE place?.

So IF the Derelict has a Egg Cargo Hold, then those Eggs came from some other place, so there is the Potential that the place those Eggs came from is still there and the Potential that more ships had left with Eggs... WHERE ARE THEY?

IF we instead look at the Eggs as some Natural Organism the Space Jockey Race came across, then we have to ASK was the Derelict the FIRST and ONLY ship to have attempted to Collect those Eggs?  Even if it was then we have to ASK are there more Eggs on the World the Derelict/Space Jockey had Discovered/Obtained them from?

The most Limiting Route would be that LV-426 is a Egg Cave/Silo that the Derelict was the FIRST/ONLY ship to attempt to take those Eggs and well that NEVER went to plan... and then Hadleys Hope Destruction could have Destroyed all those Eggs! (assumes LV-426 only had One Egg Storage/Cache and was the only location of such a Organism).

But in such a Scenario and also the others, there is more than just Coincidence that the Derelict Ship and Egg Cargo/Silo share the same HR Giger Aesthetic.  So it would be unlikely in this case that we have ONLY the ONE Ship and ONE Cargo Hold/Silo.

The Prequels came along to change things a bit, well give some Clarity, and Prometheus shows us the Xenomorph is related to those Experiments and so we then ASK...  was LV-223 the ONLY place the Engineers had Experimented on such things in the Galaxy?, and IF the Xenomorph was a result of this, then the chances of them only Creating ONE Cache of Eggs on the Derelict is SLIM... surely Other Ships had Eggs too and WHERE ARE THEY?

The Biggest Limitation would be the David Creates Route, depending how this Folds Out... if David only (or from his Xenomorphs someone else only) creates enough Eggs for the Derelicts Cargo Hold and we are shown that the Egg Chamber is indeed on board the Derelict and the Derelict is THUS the ONLY ship with those Eggs, then this limits things.

Where then a lot would depend on If the Destruction of Hadleys Hope had eliminated the Derelict/Egg Cache.

Regardless... we also have to take note that Planet 4 has Xenomorph Eggs, and any species who turn up there could USE them or Re-Engineer those Eggs.

So which ever way we look at it, its VERY possible that LV-426 and the Derelict  ARE-NOT the only Source of Xenomorph in the Galaxy.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Leto

Apr-18-2019 11:58 AM

WHERE ARE THEY?

 

Strange question. Other directors and writers will give them to us. In Alien Universe nobody cares about continuity.

 

I can say more - future directors can leave prequels "dead end" and create something else. I think - we need to stop "asking" - because it's useless. It's looks like question about magic egg on Sulaco. It's a mess. It has no solution = all the answers and theories are correct. With LV-426 same situation - we don't know. Nobody knows. I think - there are other sources of Alien eggs. Because, well, you know - for Alien Universe you need aliens.

BigDave

Apr-18-2019 12:29 PM

"For example, I previous speculated, as BigDave will remember, the possibility that the egg morphing scene in Alien"

Certainly remember those debates, this is the same conclusion i had back 20 years ago, certainly IF this was not the case, the Xenomorph in ALIEN should have also captured Parker and Lambert so it had 2X Eggs and 2X Hosts or 4X Eggs... if the Egg Morph becomes a Queen then it makes sense to only NEED just TWO Captured Hosts. (Egg/Host).

"but the difference in appearance and reproduction method is a glaring inconsistency between the two movies."

That theory does make sense, the other alternative is the Derelict had different Variants of Xenomorph (as shown in Alien Engineers).

"As Chli contends, and I agree, David creating the Alien is a BAD idea."

It actually fits perfectly with the Prometheus Themes, but those themes could have fitted with David Creating a Perfected Version... so while it makes some sense in context to the Themes that RS was exploring... i agree what a Dumb Move, because it Tarnishes the Xenomorph ALIEN Origins, but then fitting with the themes of Perfection, there is scope that the Engineers or Race above them Discover Davids Creation and they EVOLVE/PERFECT it to become the Xenomorph from the Franchise... making David merely the Middle Man and the ALPHA/OMEGA of the Origins ALIEN.

"We were also shown by the Hammerpede's acidic blood and Fifield's original mutation that the black goo mutates whatever it contaminates with Xenomorph traits"

This was the intention, there was a connection, it was open to WHICH way this was.... these Experiments either came from the Xenomorph, or those Experiments and Xenomorph came from another Organism related, or they all derive purely from the Black Goo. So many of the Elaborated ideas from the Drafts would have HELPED as Fifield was more Xeno-Hybrid and had ACID Blood!

"Engineers have human DNA, which according to Shaw predates that of modern humans suggests that the Engineers are primitive humans that somehow left Earth"

Or certainly that Engineers and Mankind Originate from the same World... which could be Paradise (if we look at in context of the Garden of Eden).

" then who is loaning the Engineers the technology and why?"

Interesting and would indeed answer some of the Aesthetic Differences and Similarities, i think that some kind of Symbiotic Relationship could be explored, their is some Benefit to the Engineers for Sacrificing some of their kind for the Purpose of the Derelict and its Production of Eggs...   The Engineers likely STEALING and Reverse Engineering the Derelict certainly appears to be Logical and would take the Franchise to something more ALIEN in its roots.

"the eggs of which were either planted, or possibly "laid" by the aforementioned sexual unison between the pilot and the vessel"

Certainly is something to BUY into, or certainly reveal they required Humanoid Females to attach to the Ship where the Ship basically has SEX with them, well uses the Females Egg Cells and Fertilizes them which then go through a Process in the Egg Chamber to become those Eggs... this would certainly add some Shock Factor.... certainly imagine the LOOK on Dr Shaws face if she discovered this was the Purpose for the Creation of Humans, for Female Sex Partners to those Ships.

"Many have speculated the Engineers may have been sterile and unable to reproduce"

Certainly appeared to be the Plan with the Concept of Prequels, in that Genetically Evolving themselves lead to becoming Sterile... which could give Good Reason for the Creation of Mankind...   Looking at Alien Covenant we have Female Engineers, but could these by the Ancestors of Human Females that were taken to be MATED with Engineers Ridley Scott suggest they are the Originals and so our LV-223 Engineers are Engineered/Enhanced versions that likely became Augmented with Xeno-Related Traits, and could indeed become Sterile... which if these beings then view from infection of some Organism related to the Xenomorph that they CAN Create/Birth Life... this could be seen by those Sterile LV-223 Engineers as a reason to WORSHIP such a Organism.

"the Xenomorphs became sterile, likely due to augmenting their DNA with biomechanical technology... Facing extinction they developed a new method of reproduction"

Certainly a interesting TWIST... but the Xenomorph seemed to not be as Intelligent as such a Race that has such Technology... unless the Ancient Organism when using the Space Jockey Hosts would become something Intelligent the ULTRAMORPHS... but when Human Host is used there is something missing/not unlocked with the Human Genome that renders the Off-Spring to become a bit backwards compared to using Engineer Hosts... it would be like Mankind mating with a Ape and say Producing Neanderthals.

"But hidden within the nano viral AI lies the knowledge, history, and consciousnesses of the Xenomorphs of old. "

I am reply to bits as go along, so it seems like i butted in along the way, but indeed as i go further to your posts, i find it VERY interesting with this THEORY ;)

" If one such vessel was responsible for laying the eggs on LV-426, it is a logical deduction that they will have been other such vessels performing the same task elsewhere"

Certainly as i discused with my prior post, the potential for there being just ONE Ship/Hold of Eggs is Unlikely, and your TWIST on the subject is very interesting.

"Finally, and again apology's for the TLDR post,"

I think it was Necessary to Explain in Detail your ideas, which i now can Grasp and Applaud... certainly the DEVIL is the in Detail and for the most Part i can get on board with such a PLOT.

"Could it be, as we were shown in Prometheus that the Juggernauts being sentient ordered the chosen Engineers on LV-223 to unleash the xenomorph weapon on Earth"

I think the Rebellion Aspect is a Theme to KEEP...  i would buy it more that the Engineers are a Creation of the Slave Race that are the Space Jockey, which lead to a Rebellion and FALL of the Ancient Xenomorph... so the Engineers Re-engineered the Technology.

Going back to what i mentioned earlier about what IF the Eggs when infecting the Space Jockey Race would Create ULTRAMORPHS that would evolve to become Intelligent like their Ancestors... but Human Hosts (or Planet 4 Engineers) would not become as Civilized and would need Nurturing to become that more Intelligent Species...

Then if we take such a IDEA and expand that to David and IF he then Engineers those Human Embryos to become a NEW Humanoid Race... WHAT HAPPENS if these Humanoid Creations of David become the PERFECT Host to RESURECT the Ancient Intelligent ULTRAMORPH Xenomorph Species?

That would be Full-Circle and interesting ;)

Thanks for the in-depth explanation Gavin, certainly is a route i think would be a Good Place to go.... i think potentially this could ELEVATE the Xenomorph by giving us a Ultramorph Variant.

Once we have some Ultramorphs, their version of the Hive Mind could control and enable the Xenomorphs to be used as a Work Force to carry out Tasks that they would not have been able to do so, without the Ultramorphs unlocking the Xenomorphs Hidden Intelligence..

so YEAH i think such ideas would WORK!

Hope Disney/Fox are paying attention to your post and some of the replies here.. as i think this could be the WAY to go!

You could EVEN.... go back to the Themes of Prometheus... where a Hubris of the Ultramorph then passing on and influencing the Xenomorphs, which can Multiply Quicker with Human Hosts... could eventually see the Xenomorphs OVERTHROW the Ultramorph/Their Ancestors.

Because lets FACE it... if we was to go back in Time and take 100 Cave Men Babies and Raise them with the best Education we have.. then they could just as easy Match the Accomplishments of Modern Man.

Where left to the Caves they would just Write on Walls with their own Feces!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Apr-18-2019 6:44 PM

I think when considering any such idea however, there is one thing that sticks out to me and that is the Signal from LV-426 which MUTHUR deciphers as a WARNING.

Which i think would be a little odd if we assume the Warning was to Warn about a Compromised Cargo and to NOT attempt to enter the Ship.  

If the Space Jockey are a Race who are Willing or Forced to act as Pilots to seed in effect the Eggs that are the Off-Spring of some Species (Xenomorph) that are OVER the Space Jockey in terms of Hierarchy/Power then such a Species would surely not see this a Threat and the Warning would not need to be a Warning, such a Signal like "Hey Boss i got infected by the Cargo so this ship is out of Control"  so the Xenomorphs are informed about the Loss of a Ship and would send someone else down to Recover the Cargo.   If we suggest the Space Jockey is actually related to the Xenomorph (even though we never see the Xenomorph Evolve to look similar) then i think letting off a Warning is even more bizarre...

Maybe we could ponder the Space Jockey is a Xenomorph in  a Space Suit, which we have to ask WHY in which case as a means to Interface with the Ship to Fly it would be the only Logical One i could find...  i would still then ask WHY would they set of a WARNING Beacon.... and is it possible that this Xeno-Jockey can be infected with the Birth Stage of their Species?

To to me the SOS/WARNING fits more with a Race that are using the Xenomorph as a Bio-Weapon or taking them to a place for Experiments (or other purpose).  Maybe if the Space Jockey are a Unrelated Species that are Enslaved to perform this Task for some other Species then the WARNING  could kind of make a bit of sense?

But alas we DONT have any Translation for the Beacon and so we dont know what it could say, and it was not in the Engineer Language but this could be a Oversight.

To me it seems the Signal could be similar to saying "Warning! Warning! the Cargo is Compromised!, Warning! Warning! the Cargo is Compromised! Warning! Warning!"

But thats only based on the Pattern of Different Sounds, and so Word for Word its a Assumption.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Apr-18-2019 8:00 PM

One thing i can add to the Debate would be about the Cargo Hold.... i made this image roughly to scale.

This shows that the CARGO HOLD... can not be located under the Derelict... and if you look at the Cargo Hold and Image of Derelict above it, they are about to the right scale (based on Human compared to them) and we can see the Cargo Hold image does-not even cover all of the Cargo Hold that Cargo Hold looks like it could be at least 4-6X Larger (as far as the Length of it).  So indeed it CANT fit inside the Derelict!

Only unless we suspend what we see, and its a Oversight... UNLESS the Ship uses Dr Who Tardis Technology.

In context to the OT!

If we do accept that the Cargo Hold is NOT part of the Ship and the Derelict is Parked Above it, then i think this increases the Chances of the Cargo Hold Surviving the Destruction of Hadleys Hope.

EDIT:

Done another image where i mirrored the Kane Descending Shot, Scaled the him to the Vaginal Entrance and i have noted the Space Under the Pilot Chamber with the Rectangle and placed it also in the Cargo Hold, the Arrows show the Cargo Hold Snakes around the Corners which shows even in this Mirrored Shot we could be looking at only 1/4th of the Cargo Hold maybe 1/8th.

Regardless Kane is to Approx Scale so the Egg Hold Shot is approx to Scale with the Derelict Prop.

Conclusion?   Cargo Hold as Part of the Ship?  Not a Chance!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

setaverde

Apr-18-2019 8:36 PM

BigDave, i have the right translation of the sounds and i'm going to Share with you:

"Happy! Happy! My baby is coming now! Happy! Happy! My baby is coming now! Happy! Happy!"

And all makes Sense! David is the space Jockey!

The android gives birth its own creation. It's a rebirth, it's a regenesis!

In the end, we are all Xenos!

We achieved full circle!

'Alien: rebirth', or 'Alien: regenesis', amazing titles for the sequel of covenant, i think!

"In space, nobody hears you giving birth!"

 

Definition of regenesis in English:

regenesis

NOUN

  • The fact or process of forming or being formed again or a further time.

SuperAlien

Apr-18-2019 11:02 PM

BigDave, let's be honest and admit this idea that the eggs are stored in a cave or silo underneath the derelict is only our wishful thinking. 

I edited the frame with the Kane's descent into the hold, it can be seen it has the shape of the derelict, and, while I agree the height of the hold is approximately the same with that of the derelict, that should be ok, since the pilot chamber has to be in the dome situated on top, the rest of the ship is cargo hold and corridors. If you remember, after entering through the vaginal openings, Kane & Co. went up a wall and even if the wall was not that high, the suggestion was they reached the dome, where the SJ was. Then Kane descended through a hole in the floor, through the deck from the dome/pilot chamber precisely, and one deck only until the hold. He did not pass through any other deck or the hull of the vessel, so the eggs were right below the pilot chamber, right below the dome. Also the structure was the same type for the hold and corridors. If we can still argue if the eggs were produced or not by the Juggernaut itself, for me there is no doubt the eggs were INSIDE the derelict, in the cargo hold. Ridley Scott, Giger and the rest of the production team for Alien said that due to budgetary constraints they gave up the pyramid idea and placed the eggs in the cargo hold of the ship. And it is good it ended like that, becuse until the last moment Giler wanted to have the eggs in the red cylinder silo. 

There are, of course, some discrepancies regarding the proportions of the hold and derelict itself, how much they climbed from the entrance to the pilot chamber, but the fact the hold and the ship have about the same size is good enough. Nobody thought back in 1979 that someone would do such a thorough investigation.

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

jdvyne

Apr-19-2019 1:28 AM

I think first of all the question is if we have to still see Alien 3 and 4 as cannon. If I remember correctly RS stated once, that he doesn't like the movies. Blomkamps movie would have taken place after Aliens and therefore creating a "new timeline" where Alien 3 and 4 are cannon no more.

 

If they are not to be seen as cannon, then it is of no concern what happened there in regards to OPs' question. I think the derelict was indeed far away enough so it could survive the blast.

 

If they are to be seen as cannon, then there can be one simple possibility how it would come about, that in Alien 4 they're trying to get the Alien via Riplay and not via LV-426:

maybe Weyland-Yutani DID try to get their hands on the eggs on LV-426. Maybe even several times. But maybe every time the same destiny befall them as Hadleys Hope, as the Crew of the Nostromo (besides Riplay), the Marines in Aliens, the crew of the Auriga etc.: they got infested and killed every single time. In Alien 4 they're talking about a war that happened on earth in 1-2 scenes. At the end of Alien 4 there is a scene (don't know if it was in the theatrical version or directors cut) where Ripley and Call are talking about what will happen next as they are staring over the RUINS of I think it was Paris. So Weyland-Yutani surely had done the best they could to keep their knowledge about the Aliens as best a secret as they could. If I imagine that somewhere between Alien 3 and Alien 4 there was a (nuclear) war on earth it could simply be that the very few people at WY who knew about the Aliens were ALL killed and at the time of Alien 4 the Earthgov or whatever simply hadn't found any secret files of WY (if there are any).

 

 

But who knows... after the David story-arc I think that the robots secretly already have taken over WY (or earth) "I, Robot"-style, hence the "Crew expendable" command. The "real" Bishop at the end of Alien 3 seems to be in command of the rescure-mission and I bet he's actually a robot. His blood is red but that doesn't mean anything. The way his ear is hanging down after he got hit looks suspicious...

BigDave

Apr-19-2019 6:53 AM

"let's be honest and admit this idea that the eggs are stored in a cave or silo underneath the derelict is only our wishful thinking"

Certainly i think its going to be one of those things we just would have to accept and any inconsistencies a Oversight, as i had stated in the past, the same would likely apply to the Space Jockey, we would have to accept the size difference is purely a Oversight.

A lot of work went into Prometheus as it had some vague clues to the Derelict (showing the Juggernaught) so that IF they ever showed us the Derelict Event, i dont think they would have shown that LV-426 had a Egg Silo under ground.   I think with the Prequels as far as Alien Covenants sequel...  i think the plan if they got to FINISH the prequels and shown HOW/WHEN those Eggs got on LV-426.. i again dont think they would have revealed that the Egg Cargo was held in a Underground Cargo Hold..

We would have been shown and have to ACCEPT that the Cargo was part of the Ship... despite the Visual Flaws surrounding that regarding Scale..

I did this image a few years ago, showing HOW it could fit under the Derelict due to shape, which would fit as you pointed out the angles the Egg Chamber seems to Snake around the Corner... and this idea and image i did years ago was how i felt it could fit...   ONLY flaw being the Actual Width/Depth and Height would be IMPOSSIBLE (well a bit too small) but this was a Oversight and they could use Dr Who Tardis Technology to explain that away lol

I think you make Good Points, and i have always been one who has accepted the Cargo is on the Ship, despite some Size Differences.

Another point is indeed they Re-Used part of the SET of the Pilot Chamber for the Egg Chamber Scene... so both would have the Same Height and Depth,  but the Problem comes from the Zoomed out Extended Shot of Kanes Decent, where the Chamber is Extended out via a MATT Painting, which makes the Chamber much Larger.

But these are similar Oversights to how when the Crew First Enter the Pilot Chamber they used Child Actors and so this increased the Scale of the SET by say 50% so our Space Jockey would have appeared about 21ft or so from that shot, and then back to the Prop Size of 13-15ft for the Close Ups.

These are just Visual Oversights, that we can all with Computers etc Study and Nit Pick at... but back when the Movie was made, it was NEVER expected that we would be looking at and Dissecting those Scenes in Detail... and the Intended Purpose was to show the Cargo Hold was indeed on the Ship.

A lot had been done in terms of the PLOT for the Derelict, that IF they changed it to a Underground Cave/Silo would ALTER the way we look/think about that Scene and LV-426 where as ACCEPTING its part of the Ship makes for a more simple Plot/Explanation.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Apr-19-2019 7:55 AM

Redone the Schematic a bit better.

This (Figure B) is just a Approximate, as far as Potentially the Cargo Hold Shape if we assume its to scale to FIT inside, compared to area of the Pilot Chamber which would OVERLAP on top of the Cargo Hold, but the Cargo Hold is NOT a Circle, so its likely wrapped around as in the Image i did, where we could then assume the Pilot Chair Area and Lower into the Ground as shown in Prometheus.

 

This (Figure A) image i am trying to roughly estimate where the Pilot Chamber and Egg Cargo would Lie... in terms of the Derelict..   In ALIEN we never get to follow every second of the Crews Journey, so there could be the Potential of the Pilot Chamber Floor being a certain height off the ground.

The Egg and Pilot Chamber are NOT lined up exactly due to Angels.... but the Scale i have roughly as best as i can matched... we have to bear in mind these Shots DO-NOT show the FULL Rooms... 

I have layed them above each other where there is a Margin of Error as far as More of a Gap Between Floors (off Camera) but i have roughly placed them and Marked in RED a potential Level Boundary... i then scaled this Marker to a SHOT of the Derelict and noticed it lined up a bit like i have indicated.

IF i assume this is a Good Estimate, then it makes the Case of the Cargo Hold being Taller than the Pilot Chamber and so makes it more Believable that the Cargo Hold may indeed FIT...  well the Error of Scale is Lessened.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Apr-19-2019 8:10 AM

@jdvyne

I think we have to consider Alien 3 and Alien R as Canon, and as far as i know Ridley Scott has no problem with Alien 3, i dont think he was a massive fan of Alien Resurrection though ;)

We have to ASK why they went after Ripley in Alien 3, it could be seen as the less Risky more Guaranteed Avenue to the Specimen and Especially as it was a Queen.

After Ripley had Sacrificed herself,  they may have gone to LV-426 next to see if they can Salvage any Eggs... but as far as what they would Discover or IF there are any to Salvage is open for Debate..

IF they do manage to obtain something then sure, by the time we get to Alien Resurrection 200 years latter, the Company must have NO source of Xenomorph and Failed to Obtain or Keep any Specimens.

Regarding Earth.... yes what a sorry state it appeared. well Paris at least, some speculate the World was NUKED years prior in the Past to Stop the Xenomorphs.... maybe!

But then we have the Auton's Plot, so we could see again Synthetic have gone around and Created their own Creations the Auton's and the Earth has had a Conflict between Mankind and Various AI where we could speculate that Mankind, Autons and Synthetics are Fighting for the Rights to Rule the Earth.

Obtaining a Xenomorph could be the ideal Game Changing Weapon in such a Conflict.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

Apr-19-2019 11:01 AM

If the engineers created the eggs through experiments with the black goo and humans/engineers (the eggs on LV-426 are in the cargo hold of the Derelict and not in a cave where a queen has laid them), then there might be more eggs on LV-223. There are, perhaps, 4 other pyramid mounds on LV-223 in addition to the one they explore in Prometheus. What’s in them?

Another question is the hole which Kane enters which, at least at the top, seems burnt as of acid. Has something burnt itself down or up?

Gavin

Apr-19-2019 2:17 PM

@ daliens,

For the past 40 years, my theories on the mythology behind the Alien movies have never been set in stone, it has constantly evolved with every new piece of information and every morsel of evidence. Your evidence, together with BigDaves post has made me reassess elements of my theory, which will, in time evolve my own theories further. Thank you.

@ jdvyne,

Regardless of whether he likes the movies or not, Ridley Scott declaring any of the movies that followed Alien as non-canon would be proof of his arrogance, and highly disrespectful to the cast and crew that worked on those movies.

We have the same issue with terminator currently. The upcoming movie Dark Fate disregards all the sequels that followed Terminator 2 but looks set to repeat the very same narrative beats those movies have already tread. While some fans are heralding James Camerons (in a fashion) return to the franchise, it remains to be seen (as is currently the view of Ridley Scott with the Alien fandom) if his return will still be as heralded after Dark Fates release.

Remember Scott was part of the team that brought us Alien; he did not write the script or design the creature- the Alien franchise is not owned by Scott, and never was.

As for canonicity, for better or worse Alien - Alien: Resurrection, Prometheus, and Alien: Covenant is the only true canon, regardless of any other assertions. Take Star Wars, for example, the new comics and novels are considered canon, that is until a successful movie is released that retcons whatever were depicted in the comics/novels. There are those that pick and choose their own personal canon, but doing so ignores the hard work of the cast and crew of those that worked on the movies one chooses to omit, and muddies discussion, debate, and speculation with those of us that follow the canon fo the movies as-is.

Another canonicity related question is which version of a movie showed be included as canon. Typically theatrical releases are edited according to strict guidelines from the studio and censor boards, whereas the directors cut, special edition, extended cut, etc. are usually the vision of the movie the director and their production team envisioned for the movie and the vision of the movie that acters for the fans. As such IMO the latter versions of the movies (not the theatrical cuts) are the canon versions.

SuperAlien

Apr-20-2019 1:17 AM

"Another question is the hole which Kane enters which, at least at the top, seems burnt as of acid. Has something burnt itself down or up?"

After seeing Prometheus we know that the pilots of Juggernaut were in that chair only during landing and take off, eventually during fighting/bombing their enemies, rest of the time was spent in cryosleep.

We also saw in Prometheus that after bursting out from the Enginner's body, the Deacon went out. In Alien the chestburster went into hiding, it did not make any hole in the floor. The only hole in the floor was made when Ash tried to surgically remove the facehugger from Kane.

Ridley Scott said that the pilot was infected by his cargo and we saw in Alien that only one sector of the cargo hold was still covered in a layer of blue mist, rest of the eggs were not, and there were many eggs in that hold. I will deduct that the blue mist layer was not only to keep the pilot safe during the trip, but to preserve the eggs as well, a sort of incubator. Consequently I believe that the only eggs still alive when Nostromo landed on LV426 were those covered by the blue mist.

So... My only logical conclusion from the above facts is that something went wrong in the hold during the flight, maybe it was the blue mist generator malfunctioning, the pilot, awaken from cryosleep by some alarm system, went below deck and was attacked by a facehugger, chased like Lope from Covenant, or even with the facehugger attached to his face. He returned to the command deck and while being impregnated he managed to remove the facehugger hurting it in the fight (remember the Lope incident, must have been there for a reason). The facehugger then bled to death on the floor, its lifetime mission accomplished, its acid blood made the hole through which Kane descended later into the hold.

The pilot, realizing that everything is lost, and being in the vicinity of LV426, braced up for landing, all suited up, and did the emergency landing. He then activated the warning beacon and at the same time the chestburster made the hole through the chest and suit and went into hiding.

The end.

 

"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"

BigDave

Apr-20-2019 5:25 AM

I think while the Idea/Intention was that the Egg Cargo Hold is part of the SHIP.  And while i dont think this would ever change, until we see the Derelict Loaded with Eggs so we know HOW they got onto the Ship, then this is always going to be a subject of debate.

IF we go the route that the Eggs are on the Ship, then it would leave it open for other Eggs to be located in other places, UNLESS we assume that there was ONLY one Ship that EVER had that Cargo!

IF we look at the Eggs being something the Engineers had Experimented on, then we have to ASK where did they come from and so that means its likely there are more out there.  IF we look at the Eggs as being Created from Experiments then we have to ask WAS that Cache of all those Eggs EVERY one they had created?

I think looking at the CARGO Hold being a Underground Storage Facility would kind of Reduce the Chances of their being more, but we could ask did those Engineers Put all their Eggs in ONE Basket?

Could there had been more Egg Storage Facilities on LV-426 if we go this route?   DID those Eggs in that case come from someplace else and taken to the Storage Facility?  So again there could be other avenues of the Eggs.

These are all based on IGNORING what Alien Covenant had shown!

If we factor in Alien Covenant, this raises a Problem, because to ASSUME their is a Underground Storage Facility on LV-426 then it must mean that David takes his Experiments/Eggs to that Facility meaning this is the ONLY location for them...  but then the same could be said if we go this route and the Cargo Hold is on the Derelict.

HOWEVER... Alien Covenant does show us that there are Eggs on Planet 4 although these ones likely WONT yield any Queen.   And if the Prequels had completed then David could have had more Eggs on the Covenant, and/or Origae-6 too....

Certainly at very least there are those on Planet 4 and the Thousands on LV-426,  The David Created the Xenomorph route could LIMIT the number of places where Eggs can be obtained.

Before this PLOT change, we could speculate if those Eggs had got to LV-426 from LV-223 and so indeed it was likely that those or some of those Outposts on LV-223 had Eggs at one point...  The One Fresco shows a Egg but this was only on screen for a split second and not as a Full Image.

Regarding those other Outposts..... on LV-223, i would suspect each outpost either had... a Different Variant of the Bio-Weapon, or each outpost as dedicated to a different World/Race the Engineers had created (Fire and Stone indicated this) and so each Outpost's Bio-Weapon would be intended for different Targets.

Regarding the Acid Hole.... it looked more like something had Burnt from the Pilot Chamber down to the Egg Hold.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

Apr-20-2019 5:49 AM

"The facehugger then bled to death on the floor, its lifetime mission accomplished, its acid blood made the hole through which Kane descended later into the hold."

That certainly is plausible... something we discussed before on this site, and is the easiest way to pass off what caused that Hole!   You could even speculated that when a Xenomorph or Face Hugger has died, then its Body over Time will Dissolve and cause the HOLE.

Ridley Scott had gave in detail about the Space Jockey event.... but this was prior to the PLOT for Alien Covenant.

His comments paint a certain picture, but also could hint that the Derelict's Cargo was a ONE of a kind!

He had claimed the Derelict Event happened within a Few Hundred years of the Outbreak that had KILLED off most of those Engineers on LV-223.   He further said that something in the Cargo Hold had EVOLVED and infected the Pilot.  Who then knowing he was Infected had laid a Course to the Barren World of LV-426 to Quarantine the Ship/Cargo and set off the Beacon to WARN his brothers that the Cargo/Mission had become Compromised.

Its open to Interpretation... but to me this suggests at least that its likely the Derelict Event happened a FEW HUNDRED years after the Outbreak on LV-223.   I would Speculate that maybe the Space Jockey had gone into Cryo-Sleep (but Derelict lacked Cryo-Pods but they could have been located elsewhere on the ship).   The Pilot as infected, and maybe he never knew he was infected.

A Few Hundred Years passed, he came out of Cryo-Sleep went to resume his Mission, then he noticed he must have been infected.... or something had infected him Unbeknownst as he went into Cry-Sleep.  Or he could have investigate the Cargo Hold prior and was infected.

Which ever route, something maybe infected him that he had NO knowledge would have, it depends what RS meant by the EVOLVED comment, which could mean what ever infected the Space Jockey was NOT in the Cargo Hold the 200 years prior.

The Juggernaught in Prometheus had 3 of its Crew Dead via a Chest Buster like Event... while we dont see any detail, and we could speculated something could have BURNT into the Cryo-Pods... the Prop Engineers inside were CHEST BUSTED.

So we could speculate was it the same thing that had infected those Engineers too?

For me however... i would always be drawn to the Eggs being placed on the Ship/Cargo Hold with Intention, and so NO Organism ends up Laying or Creating those Eggs while the Surviving Engineers went to SLEEP.

But back then in 2012, i had wondered how this connects to ALIEN and pondered if the Hammerpedes were the Source of those Eggs?  Certainly the Chest Busted Engineers in Cryo-sleep in Prometheus.

Alien Covenant however could also allow us to ponder if something similar to the Spores had grown on LV-223 at least in some places after the Outbreak? or was part of the Outbreak.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Add A Reply

Sign in to add a reply to this topic!

Get this Prometheus sweater!
Alien Sweater
New Alien: Covenant Forum Topics
Latest Alien Fandom Activity

Alien: Covenant is a sequel to 2012's Prometheus as well as a prequel to 1979's ALIEN. Alien fans looking to know more about Alien: Covenant should check back often. Alien-Covenant.com is an information resource for film enthusiasts looking to learn more about the upcoming blockbuster Alien: Covenant. Providing the latest official and accurate information on Alien: Covenant, this website contains links to every set video, viral video, commercial, trailer, poster, movie still and screenshot available. This site is an extension of the Alien & Predator Fandom on Scified - a central hub for fans of Alien and Prometheus looking to stay up-to-date on the latest news. Images used are property of their respective owners. Alien: Covenant, Prometheus and its associated names, logos and images are property of 20th Century Fox and are in no way owned by Scified and its related entities. This is a fan-created website for the purpose of informing and exciting fans for Alien: Covenant's release. If you have any questions about this site, its content or the Scified Network in general, feel free to contact Scified directly.

Scified is an entertainment media network covering the latest news on the most popular, upcoming science fiction movies, games and television. All content is property of Scified.com unless otherwise stated. Images and names of content we promote, discuss, review or report are property of their respective owners. Scified is independantly owned and operated by a team of dedicated sci-fi movie fans, who strive to provide the best information and community experience for other like-minded sci-fi movie enthusiasts.

© 2020 Scified.com