Close
Sign in with your E-Mail & Password

Log in to view your personalized notifications across Scified!

Alien Discussion Forums
prometheus opening scene

prometheus opening scene

23,339 Views149 RepliesAdd A Reply
Forum Topic

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJul-27-2018 12:44 AM

gna have to bare with me as it may seem like im going all over the place but in my head it makes sense.

when do we think this scene took/wouldv taken place on earth?

when I first saw the film I took the assumption that the scene took place on earth and the engineers were seeding life on earth and by that I mean life started on earth because of this sacrificial engineer. now a Cpl of things come to mind if this is the case. surely only humans would have come from this OR, this may support the theory that the black goo comes in many different forms as the engineers have found a way to program it for certain tasks. would support the different effects we see between the sacrificial engineer, Fifield and the engineers on planet 4. now scientists believe ALL life started in the sea. well theres a waterfall so checks out ok there but the mutagen would have to be tweeked. it may need a base gene for reference but has the ability to reorganise it into whatever organism suits the environment otherwise u just get humans from this scene.

is it more likely that this scene, assuming its on earth, took place after the extinction of the dinosaurs? once the earth recovers, the engineers find the planet and seed it? in this case do we just appear or does the fact the mutagen is in the water mean that indeed we did come from primates who had been drinking the contaminated water? bare in mind the mutagen is heavily diluted so this would take millennia to happen

thoughts 

149 Responses to prometheus opening scene

chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPAug-14-2018 2:42 AM

Well, of course, you sacrifice yourself for SOMETHING, for your children or for humanity, but you don't sacrifice yourself if you have been indoctrinated into believing that you get Christmas presents in Heaven.

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPAug-14-2018 7:43 AM

I think that depends on how you look at it, and how different Religions and Cults have Influenced the Person.   I see what your getting at IF you mean that Performing a Act to give your Life in the knowledge/Believe you PERSONALLY we gain from it...  then this is NOT a Sacrifice.

The Broad Term of Sacrifice is giving up/making a Loss to someone else Benefit where it has no benefit to yourself.  Apart from maybe the Feeling that you had done Good.

For example IF on a Winter Night you Sacrifice your Coat/Jacket for a Homeless Person, you have lost that Warmth it would Provide but you know that your deed has Benefited someone else more than yourself.  This would be similar Feeling Janek would have, he would not KNOW if his Sacrifice was Successful but he would know that IF it was then he would feel he has accomplished something Greater than himself and his own Life.

As i have said before, to Determine what Context the Sacrifice means depends on WHY it is done.  If say the Original Idea from Jon Spaights/Ridley Scott applies, so that the Sacrifice was maybe a attempt to Give Up Ones Body/Soul to allow your Race to Survive/Procreate then this would be seen as the Engineer making a Sacrifice.

But also in some Ancient Sacrificial Rituals, the Sacrifice is Sacrificed without their Consent be it the Slaughter of a LAMB or the Burning of a Virgin  to the Cult/Religion they class it as a Sacrifice when really its a  MURDER of a Innocent who has not Choice, for the Benefit of those who are making this Ritual... this is still classed as a Sacrifice but its the Complete Opposite to making a Sacrifice.

So the most important Question in Relation would be to discover WHY these Engineers Sacrifice themselves, and HOW often do they still do it... then we can Gauge what kind of Sacrifice they are making or being Forced to make.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPAug-14-2018 8:07 AM

The kind of way i have been pushed towards interpreting it is we see these Engineers are very Proud to Display Monuments in their Image, Head Sculptures and Statues.  And i interpret a Legacy as being a them in the Prequels.  Where another theme is IMMORTALITY and a Person Lives on (Not Forgotten) on their Actions/Deeds/Accomplishments and also through their Children/Grandchildren .

Elvis Priestley (Edit Presley), Michelangelo live on and are remembered due to their Accomplishments their Music/Art they are kind of Immortalized, IF they never had their Talents then NO-ONE but Family would remember them... but in their Family as Generations go on, then you are less Remembered... " do you remember/know Great Great Grandfather James Mom"  other people are Famous for other Reasons such as Royalty and are Immortalized to a degree in their Faces on Coins, Paintings and Monuments as well as their History/Fame being known and passed on.

I interpret the Ozymandias Poem in context and in part with David, as he is looking at this Race who have Built Monuments but after they are all Dead, eventually even the Monuments will Crumble to Dust.   By deploying the Black Goo he knows that from Death will come New Life "sometimes to create one must first destroy"  and so a True Legacy is to Create, because when you have a Race lets say Engineers or Humans, we can pass on our Knowledge to Generation after Generation.. IF Earth was Destroyed then as long as some Escape then we can LIVE ON.

But back to the reason for this post..

Prometheus i saw maybe this Engineer Sacrificed so that his Body Can give to NEW Life, so in part his Genetic Material Legacy can live on.

When i look at those Engineers in Alien Covenant and the Plaza... I see a very Ritualistic Culture and i see the Juggernauts as being the more Advanced Seeding Ships that replace the Ancient Tear Drop Method.

I think their Culture teaches them that they can Live on Through Sacrifice,  and that the Sacrifice allows them to Live on as Part of EVERY Life that Spawns from their Sacrificed Body.  While it may sound strange to some of us, i think this kind of thinking is what their Culture Teaches.

I think they are then also told they will have Monuments Erected in their Image/Honor and this is all those Statues in the Plaza (those who have Sacrificed their Body/Souls t Seed Life)

For a Engineer and their Culture the knowledge there existence does not END in Ashs/Dirt but they have a Chance that in Death, they will be the Start of New Life, is something that is just their Culture, their Ways and those Sacrificed would believe they will LIVE ON in the Creation that comes from their Death, and they will also be remembered for this Sacrifice with a Monument in the Plaza.

This is just my Interpretation however.. i dont think Sacrificing to Create Organisms to Sacrifice to Create Xenomorph like Monsters is fitting with what Prometheus and the Connections to Creation Mythos/Gods was showing us.

I think the Theme Space Gardeners is more Fitting, which RS has used over and over... but then this could be taken as a Harvest being Part of Gardening and so who knows if the Purpose/Agenda of the Engineers is to Sacrifice to Create Demonic Beasts like the Xenomorphs.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ignorantGuy

ChestbursterMember899 XPAug-14-2018 8:16 AM

BigDave who is Elvis Priestley? is he a friend of Michael Angelo's? 

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPAug-14-2018 8:42 AM

Ha Ha...  Forgive my Spelling... this was a combination of a Typo and a Spelling Error ;)

I will Correct it ;)

I think Elvis Priestley was actually the Head Priest Engineer on Planet 4, and i am sure he could have Given David some of his World Famous Flute Songs ;)  I wonder if Elvis Priestley  actually means Evil Priest?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ignorantGuy

ChestbursterMember899 XPAug-14-2018 9:17 AM

David was so lonely, baby, he could die!

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPAug-15-2018 5:27 AM

I think a Big Problem we may have is the constant Evolution/Changing of the Plot as they go along, if we could go back and by a Fly on the Wall to when Ridley Scott and John Spaights had started to Brainstorm the Broad ideas and Plots for their ALIEN Prequel, right to when we got the Alien Engineers Draft, it seemed they had a idea/explanation to a lot of things in their minds, as things Progressed to Lindeloff and then Prometheus a number of things where not Spoon Fed/Explained as much and left Ambiguous.

What we can gather is the whole PLOT revolves around the Ancient Astronaut/Chariots of the Gods Theory were our many Mythos and Religions all Stem from Actual Contact with a ALIEN Race of Humanoids who Created Mankind and played a Great Role in our Evolution both Genetically and Technologically (Knowledge).

What we can Gauge from the Sacrificial Scene is that it is giving us a similar event to some of the Creation Mythos about Mankind being Created from Clay/Mud/Dirt in particular to Ancient Mesopotamia and the Sumerian Creation Mythos where the Gods had Sacrificed one of their Own so that their Blood is Mixed with Clay to Create Man.  The Reason for this was to Create a Slave Race in their Image to Serve.  Much as David was created to a degree (well Synthetics).

Looking at the Sacrificial Scene we see that a Engineer is dropped off by we can assume his own kind (IF we accept the deleted Scene) and the Engineer is Sacrificing his Body and his Blood Mixes with the Waxy-Like Substance that begins to Melt.  This Scene is ambiguous to a degree as we may assume THIS is how Life began on Earth, but this Scene could have taken place on ANY Planet.  Ridley Scott informs us that these beings can Create Life in other ways but this is JUST how they Choose to do it.   Other comments by Ridley Scott do show us that THIS Ritual is likely carried out on a  NUMBER of Worlds.

Looking at this it does suggest the Engineers take part in this Ritual on Many Worlds. We can conclude this from Ridley Scotts Comments.  But if we choose to ignore them it opens up other ways to look at it, but i think Regardless we have to look at it as likely ONE of the following.

*This Scene Represents the Engineers starting point to create a Humanoid Race, we cant rule out this Process leads to ONE Humanoid Race that they then use to Populate the Galaxy, either by taking them to Worlds to Colonize/Populate (Much like the Covenant Mission) or Sacrifice these beings to begin the Process again on other Worlds.

*This Scene Represents just how the Engineers have always (for the most part) Seeded Worlds.

It is unlikely this Process was only done ONCE on Earth. Ridley Scott has indicated they have Seeded Many Worlds, and even that they have likely Created/Destroyed on Worlds over and over.  Suggesting that Previous Creations had been Undone to make way for NEW ones, evening bringing up ATLANTIS.

We just dont know the REASON for this Creation Process, it was indicated it was for the Great Benefit of these Engineers, but then we have to Question if it is so Important then why is it indicated they have done this Many Times, and potentially have Re-Set Creation/Worlds a number of times too?

We also have to consider WHERE/WHEN was this Sacrificial Scene, and so as with the TWO points raised prior, is it a ONE OFF Event that leads to a Humanoid they then use to Seed the Galaxy?  Its indicated this is not the case, and so it appears to be more a case of this RITUAL has been Performed on perhaps Many Worlds and more than Once on some Worlds.

We also have to look at the Process...  each has Flaws.. at first we had Alien Engineers which indicates the Sacrifice allows a Engineers DNA to be carried on and implanted into other Organisms to Create a Hybrid, which in this case was Engineer DNA + Primate Leads to our Ancestral Origins.  This means this Scene Kick Started the Evolutionary Chain from Primate to Homo Sapiens the flaw we have with this Scene is we have to ask what % of Engineer DNA is passed on, if we have a 50/50 then we have to ask how come none of the other Scarabs went off to Inject Engineer DNA in other Life... would biting a Bull give us a MINOTAUR? i guess one work around could be that as Primates are Genetically very close to Humans anyway the Engineer DNA imprints only a Small % onto the Primate so that other None-Primates that are infected do not turn into NO Human Hybrids also if the Process imprints a small % of DNA then maybe the Engineers come back to these Evolved Primates and Directly Experiment upon only these to Further Imprint Engineer DNA?  RS has suggested the Engineers came back over and over to further Evolve us.   However... despite the Flaws to Spaights Nano-Scarabs, a work around has arose from the ADVENT Viral, which allows us to consider that the GOO could be programed to only effect a certain Genome or Species, so that only Primates are infected with the Hybridization.

The other take on the Sacrificial Scene comes from Prometheus, this time we see not actual affect on Organic Life from the Scene, what we do see is the DNA Chain Breaks Down and then Reforms and we then see Single Cell Organic Life Evolve and Split....  This indicated maybe the Sacrificial Scene provides the Building Blocks to Create LIFE the FLAW here is that this World Already had Plant Life and Foliage and so for that Basic Life must already had been on the World, so this maybe allows us to look at this Scene as being the Catalyst that  allows Basic Single Cell Life to become Evolved into Multiple Cell Complex Life.

This does mean the Sacrificial Scene would have been VERY Ancient like Hundreds of Millions of years old, even around the Billion years ago Ball-Park, thats a long time to wait from Planting the SEED to then waiting for it to Bare Fruits especially if this is Done Over and Over (Reset) but then maybe it does not matter so much IF these Engineers have Seeded Many Many Many Worlds.

Another way is we could maybe Ponder if this Break Down and Reform of the Engineer DNA will lead to a Direct Descendant of Evolution to Primates/Man via a quicker Process of Thousands of Years, or Hundreds of Thousands, where again as with the ADVENT Viral the Mutagen and its effects are Programed to Basically Break Down the Engineer DNA and Reform it into something that Evolves into our Ancestor more quicker than the WHOLE Process of Basic Life ==> Humans.  So that the Engineer Breaks down to then Reform into something, rather than have the Broken Down Process INFECT any Life, but only perform a Specific Task (Programed).

So the Radical AI aspect introduced does allow them (FOX/RS) to have a escape route to not only give different reasons for the effects of the Black Goo, but allow us to look at the Sacrificial Scene as a Process that could maybe not be as LONG WINDED and take a MASSIVE amount of Time to get from A-Z

This Post sums up pretty much what the Sacrificial Scene does, but we still dont KNOW for what Purpose they do this, and we can look at the reasons for other Creation Mythos to try and Ponder WHY.. which i covered a few pages back.

I am inclined to look at the Sumerian Mythos as this also seems to fit with the continued Creation/Sub-Creation themes with David and when we look at those LV-223 Engineers compared to the ORIGINAL Planet 4 ones, then this again fits this constant Creation Plot, so maybe part of the Reason is to SERVE or to Replace the Creators for some other ROLE/TASK

This is the First Part of a IN-DEPTH Analysis, my Next Part i try to make Sense of what LV-223 was for, the Juggernauts and those Urns and look at the Flaws to assuming this Place was a Purpose Built Bio-Weapons Facility, in which i think Planet 4 provides us clues to suggest otherwise.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ignorantGuy

ChestbursterMember899 XPAug-15-2018 5:37 AM

@BigDave I wonder who Utnapishtim is in your analysis....

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPAug-16-2018 7:47 AM

I think that is a interesting point i think there are a number of ways we could loosely tie in the The Epic of Gilgamesh in with the Prometheus Franchise.  Would this best suit the Engineers to be (Utnapishtim) i think while this Epic does connect to the Ancient Floods, its also interesting that Utnapishtim had become Immortal and that his Future Descendant  Gilgamesh wanted to meet his Ancestor for a Quest to become Immortal so in part that could fit Peter Weyland (Gilgamesh )  but then we could also see the Building of the Ship to escape the Deluge as the Covenant in a way.

But i think as this Mythos is Ancient, it would likely be best suited to apply to Mankind or the Engineers in the Distant past.   I think  within context to the Franchise, we can still maybe wonder if the Engineers (or those Hall of Heads Apostles)  had Originated from Planet 4,  as the Engineer in Prometheus had informed David that he came from this Place (Planet 4/Paradise) but when RS claims those on Planet 4 are the Original Engineers, i think its open to debate if they Originated from Planet 4 or certainly if those Elders/Hall of Heads guys Originated from Planet 4 or had they taken part in some Quest to Escape Disaster to a New World much like Utnapishtim 

Who knows if the TEARDROP Ship could be taken as a interpretation of the Preserver of Life Ship  that Utnapishtim was tasked with Building?

How would you think this EPIC could connect?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPAug-16-2018 8:33 AM

To Continue with my Previous Post about the Sacrificial Ritual and Engineers and try and figure out WHY they perform this task.

I think we should then look at LV-223 a place that is located just under 40 Light Years from Earth, yet a place that could be nearly on the Door Step to Planet 4 and when we look at the Engineers, we have RS mention them as Gardeners of Space quite a bit.  When we see Planet 4 we dont really get any impression of these Engineers being connected to LV-223 and the Black Goo apart from the Fact they have a HANGER that is used for Juggernaught Ships.  We get the information that at very least those LV-223 Engineers Originated from Planet 4 but that they are maybe NOT the Original Engineers.

So we have to look at LV-223 and it seems this Place is a Facility where those Engineers conduct Experiments and are Creating Biological Warfare, that actually is a Creator of New Life from the Death of previous Life.  These Engineers (in part at least) had visited Earth and Interacted with Mankind, its indicated they taught us a lot of what we know.  And these beings LEFT STAR MAPS on various Continents at various dates through History dating back 35'000 years ago.

It seems odd to point out a Death Facility to Mankind 35'000 years ago, and at other intervals over time, while seemingly investing in our Development/Evolution until 33'000 years after perhaps the First Time they showed us the STAR MAP they then decided to use these Bio-Weapons they have been Cooking up for 33'000 years because we had done something to displease them for the Final Time.

How did they Maintain Safety for 33'000 years? Did they ever suffer a Outbreak prior to the ONE some 2000 years ago and decided this time its Safer to Abandon the Facility? Would the Outbreak had infected EVERY Facility on LV-223?

Aside from the Black Goo/Xenomorph Type Murals, what we see in the Facility is the Giant Head Statue, and also this place is Producing a Breathable Atmosphere that HUMANS can Live in...  Yet the Deleted Scenes show us our Engineers can Breath Outside (at least for a certain amount of time) certainly more than the 2 Minutes a Human would Survive.  So with this and the Space Jockey Suits we have to ASK ourselves WHY does the Insides of these Facilities Support a Breathable Atmosphere?

We are informed that the Engineers had been coming to Earth over and over Evolving us Genetically and Technologically and if they are SPACE GARDENERS then they would likely be Experimenting/Evolving various Lifeforms on Worlds and for those kinds of Experiments you may want to make sure you GET THEM RIGHT and so you would want some kind of SANDBOX, some kind of Nursery/Greenhouse where you can Evolved/Experiment and Upgrade Life in Safety so as to not Produce any Undesired Results that could have a Impact on Planet 4 and the Worlds they Seed.

When you are pleased with your Experiments then you take them to the World you intend them for, and any Undesired Results you could KILL off...   If any Undesired Results that are Engineered to Breath on Worlds like Earth, escape your SANDBOX they wont Survive for Long enough on the Surface of LV-223 or get to the other Sandboxes.

I think THIS is what LV-223 was Originally, so the STAR MAPS were saying "this is where you came from" or "where we created you"

If we know go to Planet 4 and we see the Giant Plaza and the HANGER in the Center, it is surrounded by Statues that look like Buddha Offering Statues, which are Holding like a Bowl.  These Statues must be pretty Important and have some Significance to WHY they are arranged around the HANGER we know these Engineers seem to stick to more Ancient Ways and Shun Technology apart from where it is Necessary for certain things.  It would be STRANGE to have Hangers for Bio-Weapon War Ships right in the Center of your Races HOME-WORLD and then we have to ask WHY are those Offering Statues around the HANGER?

If we then look at the Sacrificial Scene, we have a TEARDROP Ship that drops off a Lone Engineer and he Sacrifices himself so his Body can become the Seed for Life.  And if the Sacrificial Goo is Connected to the Black-Goo we know this stuff can Destroy Life but then Create Life from this...  and we have to ASK... is this the most Efficient way to Spread the Engineers DNA?  Do they drop off ONE Engineer or do they send down a few to different Locations on a World?

Lets suppose a Engineer is Sacrificed while standing in some kind of Cubical like a Shower, and his Broken Down DNA is then Collected into a Container... If we then poured the contents of this Container into the Water-Fall would this NOT produce the same Results?

What i propose is WHAT if the Juggernauts are a MORE Advanced Seeding method, where they come and Collect Sacrifices from Planet 4 and they are then Sacrificed to a more Advanced Method that Stores their DNA in those Urns.  If they collect Multiple Sacrifices this would give them more Diversity with the DNA and Dropping Engineer DNA Urns is maybe a easier method than sending a Lone Engineer to Sacrifice themselves on a Planets Surface.

If for a Moment you consider this THEORY then look at the Ritual Sacrifice culture of those Engineers it makes Sense, if we look at how the Engineers were WELCOMING the Juggernaught to then Collect Chosen Sacrifices, for whom it is a Great Honor to be Chosen where they believe they can be Immortalized via their DNA/Souls to Create Life and then have a Monument in the Plaza Built in their Image, then i think the PLAZA/HANGER makes more Sense.

If Seeding Worlds is a Great Importance to these beings and the Sacrificial Rituals a Part of this, then i feel this is a VERY GOOD reason why those Engineers were NOT Afraid of the Juggernaught and are Welcoming it and Congregating in Large Numbers to the Center of the Plaza.

If we look at the Plaza/Hanger and Juggernaughts in this Context it works well with the Space Gardeners Plot, if we look at LV-223 Once being a Sandbox to Evolve Creations in Safety so as to not have Undesired Results contaminating the Worlds they Seed, then in context with the Space Gardeners Plot it makes Sense.

Both also fit with the Ancient Aliens/Chariots of the Gods connection as far as our Engineers being the Source of our Religions/Mythos regarding GODS.

The other side of the COIN could be they go through the Whole Seeding Process and Investment in Visiting/Upgrading their Creations to then just USE them as Hosts to SPAWN the Demonic Beasts related to the Black Goo if this is TRUE, then we have to ask WHY and then WHY not keep us as Cave-Men?  and is it a bit risky to allow War-Ships to come and go and WHY would they come and go...  Why not send other kinds of Ships to the LV-223 Outpost and thus keeping their War-Ships docked there?

How does this PLOT fit with the Ancient Chariots of the Gods connections?

But indeed at some-point they had used LV-223 to conduct Experiments with Horrific Outcomes, but i feel this was MUCH latter in their History and maybe this could be linked to some kind of FALL and Perversion of Creating of Life.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BioDegradable

FacehuggerMember151 XPAug-16-2018 8:49 AM

BigDave

I actually think that you and many posters here ( and on other boards ) give too much credit to the writers, Ridley and those people responsible for the movies, by overthinking. Really, too much credit is given to them.

Think about it - what is the chance that they, only a handful of people who wrote the script have any chance to 'outsmart' by puzzling so many minds on internet for this long?! This is absurd - there is no way that they are actually any better than this diverse mass of people on the internet. That is, "the wisdom of the crowd", a phenomena which says that most of the time a diverse group of people, who are far from experts in any given field, will be more correct, than any single expert most of the time, requires that we should beat a those handful of people. And therefore, I am sure, that over these years, people on various boards have already came up with much better explanations they were given in the first place. Much nicer stories, much more elegant and original theories. I have read on this very board much better explanations of how should events have taken place. The credit should be given for what they did though - they have dispersed enough ambiguity in what looks like, overall, a semi-legitimate story that it keeps the minds racing. Just enough of ambiguity that people are willing to indulge(also enough of reasonably legit and complete looking world model and dynamics that provide the bedrock for the whole thing)

So, we shouldn't actually overthink the ambiguous sequences in the movies, because most of the time there is nothing behind it really. It is the case here - judging by abrupt decisions, by discontinuous plot lines, glaring mistakes - it is more evident that there never was a grand and watertight plan behind it all really. Certainly, none of them were going to base the plot on perfect and watertight science - that is to say, do not expect to learn how in fact Earth was created. How genetics works. How evolution might have take place. How "black goo" works. It is all a bit of fantasy. And in some places it really looks like they could have done better work. It must be said that Ridley has an eye and ear to pick and choose good looking/sounding pieces of art, music pieces, poetry lines and all those bits that together make a critical mass that can make a sequence work. I find it that the stories can be hit and miss though. In other words, he, Ridley is at the mercy of the writer. If he is good, the movie will be very likely worth the film it was shot on. Think for instance  Blade Runner or Martian or Gladiator or actually many others :)

Nice night for a walk : washday tomorrow, nothing clean, right?

The answer is irrelevant. Have a good journey...

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1305 XPAug-16-2018 3:16 PM

Perhaps the opening scene was a murder not a sacrifice?

"Take this canister my son...It contains a strength potion to keep you alive until our return in 2 weeks...."

A test of stamina for the junior senator....but alas...he perished in a waterfall 'accident'.

ignorantGuy

ChestbursterMember899 XPAug-16-2018 10:00 PM

I've figured it all out. The engineer was sunbathing (look how pale he was) and in the cup was space cola, which went sour.

chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPAug-18-2018 1:27 AM

Human sacrifice

If we look upon human sacrifice in The Old World (the Aztecs practised it until the time of the conquistadors), Ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia practised human sacrifice, e.g. servants of different kinds were sacrificed in order to appease the gods and continue serving the Pharaoh (king) in the afterlife as well.

This horrible religious ceremony was slowly disappearing, however. We see the discussion of it in Abraham’s sacrifice of his son Isaac but is stopped at the last moment by an angel and he is to sacrifice an animal instead. The story is in Greek mythology as well as Theseus stops the sacrifice of seven maidens and seven young boys to the Minotaur as well as Agamemnon who is supposed to sacrifice his daughter Iphigenia but is stopped by Artemis and she is replaced by a deer.

In Alien: Covenant (and in Advent) we learn that the engineers practised human(oid) sacrifice in the past to seed worlds but also (seen in the mural as well as in drawings in David’s lab), it seems, for the purpose of creating some kind of xenomorph.

To David’s disappointment, they stopped doing this and he takes it up again. My thesis is that the sacrificial scene, in the beginning, is a rite that the engineers have stopped doing a long time ago and they look upon humans with horror who still practised it about 2000 years ago (along with human execution) which is (one of the reasons) why they want to wipe us out in Prometheus.

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1305 XPAug-18-2018 4:34 PM

Sounds like they are a murderous death cult.

The Engineers on planet 4 welcomed home a 'death' ship.....(Unless someone can prove that Juggernauts are more than just weapon transports(Grain? Corn? kittens?))

I'd say they are/were still practicing.

And did David save humanity by bombing them... Is he a hero?

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPAug-18-2018 7:50 PM

@BioDegradable

I agree, and i do sometimes wonder if they ever had any A-Z Plan, as it does kind of look like a make it up/change some parts as they go along and little attention is paid to how it can all conflict other movies.  There are plenty of examples i bet we can find.  Was the Ambiguity intended or just a lazy way to not bother covering certain things? What it did do regardless is to allow for a whole number of debates that a Spoon Fed Movie would not allow.

You have to worry/wonder what other things are they going to change as they go along.

@chli

Certainly Sacrifice has come in many forms throughout History and Mythos/Religion and not all of them are Consensual.   The Retainers is a interesting one, where can can ponder how many of these Servants of Pharaoh's actually agreed/accepted that to DIE in order to carry on their duties to their KING in the Afterlife?  I think some of them may have, but some may not and had NO choice in their FATE i still think the Engineers ways are indoctrinated to their Civilization as  a very Important Practice  i think its still open to Debate WHY they performed this TASK and we can speculate how much of a willing Party the Chosen Engineers are to the Ritual o got the impression the Engineer was not exactly THRILLED at the Idea but he had Accepted that it was REQUIRED for some Purpose to Better his Race/Culture.

Are the Engineers upset that we continued Sacrifices Long after they had abandoned it?  Who knows... i have the feeling they was in part Disappointed in Mankind because we had NO Care for the Importance of Sacrifice and starting to Put Ourselves First. (become Selfish)

"Unless someone can prove that Juggernauts are more than just weapon transports"

Indeed MonsterZero we have no proof to say those Ships are anything but WAR MACHINES and the LV-223 are just the Military its really something thats not been Spoon Fed to us, but RS has referenced those guys in context of Military before.  I just kind of found some Flaws, in the dealings with Earth, Star Maps and Planet 4 if we consider that those Ships are NOTHING but for WAR/DESTRUCTION the theory i propose is just that, and i think its fitting with the Ancient Gods/Creators/Gardeners of Space Plot.

But who knows what the Real Deal is, it could just be Angry LV-223 Dudes who just have a BEEF with Mankind and then now and again after a Successful Mission to Destroy they return to LV-223 to a Welcoming Parade and their Hubris for being so Naive is that NO other Race can Evolve so Advanced to Reach their Weapons Outpost and use their Weapon Against them.... or indeed they never contemplate their own kind would never use it against their own.

Do we accept these would be Warships come and go, from various missions of Destruction at Regular Intervals say 25 years, 50, 100 etc which could imply they do a lot of Destruction on Worlds, Many Worlds, where it maybe took them a lot of time and Investment to had Created Life, to then Wipe it Clean in such a relative short space of time.

Or that this does not happen that often and  that its been Hundreds of Thousands of Years... which you would have to ask...Would they not be concerned WHY its been so long before any ships had came from LV-223.

I think this depends on the Following.

*Do those Engineers know about LV-223, what this Place was and the Outbreak, and what happened to the other ships after the Outbreak?

*Is LV-223 the only Bio-Weapons Facility they had, or just ONE that they abandoned and carried on using others?

*Do they have other Juggernaught ships on Planet 4?  The Novel/Deleted Scenes indicate YES.. We can assume the Hanger was meant for the Juggernaught, and would that mean other Juggernaughts come and go over periods of time, do they come from LV-223? Other Places?

*Do any returning ships carry any Bio-Weapons or can they only return with a Empty Cargo?

Sometimes maybe the Easy Answer is the Correct One and the Reality is maybe just  LAZY Plot... and maybe i should not think about what makes sense and try and give it much thought?

Hopefully we can get some Answers, but until then i think a lot of things are still open for Debate, which is always interesting to discus.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BioDegradable

FacehuggerMember151 XPAug-18-2018 8:09 PM

BigDave

 

here is the 5 min short that puts up the whole thing really really straight. It is a brilliant edit that shows the big ideas of the movies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z-QCDyL2q4

it has Ridley Scott, commenting. If you watch this short you will get what the movie is all about. I think people are too hung up on the engineers while they are merely a plot tool. The main story is a bit different. Of course I was disappointed how they dealt with Shaw, but the story is not about one woman either. The movies is a compromise. I wish Ridley would not pander to "fans" but just do the bold thing.

It just crossed my mind, that Ridley doesn't have an Oscar. He doesn't need one, but ... something is wrong with awards academy if he doesn't get one statuette before he finishes. This rather speaks about them and not in a good way.

Ridley Scott is the best director we ever had. The man is in his 80s and is still doing movies. If FOX/Disney or whoever do not give a budget he wants and a free reign to do as he wishes, if they do not trust him, we, the people will lose out.

Nice night for a walk : washday tomorrow, nothing clean, right?

The answer is irrelevant. Have a good journey...

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPAug-18-2018 8:22 PM

I guess to look at the Purpose and what i was trying to conclude when looking at some of the clues.. is we need to look at the Basic Idea of the Engineers.

Which is a Ancient Race of Genetic Space Gardeners who go though a lot of Effort to Seed Worlds, with maybe some Agenda to Produce Humanoids, a Great Labor of Time and Effort.

Then i find it odd that when they are NOT Impressed with their Creations/Worlds, or have concerns about their Creation becoming a Threat/Rebellious... if they had spent all those YEARS in creating beings like Mankind, i can understand the Need to Reset/Wipe the Slate Clean, but i think to do so with a Xenomorph Related Pathogen makes little Sense apart from a Cult of these Engineers seeing some Experiments that Creates similar as some kind of Perverted Perfection.

Surely Bombing Worlds with DNA like the Sacrificial Scene Would Rest Worlds back to what they was so many years after the Sacrificial Scenes... i think to Wipe Worlds Clean so they leave behind Xenomorph Related Hybrids and Spores seems a bit OVERKILL and not very IDEAL.

But who really knows what is going on through there Heads...

I dont really see on Planet 4 Evidence that these beings are devoted or worship anything like the Murals in Prometheus. I can see connections to the Big Head and stuff, but i dont see any proof that Planet 4 was obsessed with the Creation of Horrors like what was going on inside those Outposts on LV-223.   But then we cant rule out that they was at some point but Turned their Backs on it.

I think a lot depends on WHY they Seed Worlds and then WHY-NOT Reset Worlds with anything but Xenomorph Related Mutagen?  Some think this was their intentions all along but they then decided to Turn their Back on this...

I think the Intention was not as such, but i think Thousands of Years ago at very least a Group of Engineers became Fascinated by something related to the Mural and decided to then use that on Worlds...

Another thing i think the Prequels maybe kind of put to bed with the David Created the Xenomorph, was the Egg Cargo Bomber Explanation...  I think the Juggernauts being used as Transports for Experiments Works... but as Bombers?

I just cant see Xenomorph Eggs Surviving or being Practice if they are Dropped from Above like the Urns...  So i think the intention was to Drop Urns... but i in part find Flaws in them using these Ships Purely to Create Xenomorph Horrors... but we cant rule this out.

I am on ONE SIDE with a theory i outlined in previous post, but then on the other its NOT very ALIEN and then i keep thinking about HR Gigers Mural and Ideas... and how could they apply, so the whole Sacrifice for Xenomorphs Route is something in part i agree with but in part i dont.

I still find flaws in the lets invite Humans or Show them where we are cooking up a Special Xenomorph Surprise for them, and then wait 33'000 years to then Prepare to Unleash this Horror?

It does not rule out this as the reason for LV-223, if we look at it as only a LAST RESORT to use against Out-Of-Control Creations and so they MAY have used this on other Worlds over thousands of years, but they dont intend it on Earth until we have done something where it the Last Resort... this could FIT better with this place being a Weapons Facility for 35'000+  Years and has been used  on other Worlds as a Last Resort... but then did they suffer Outbreaks Before?  Or was this Outbreak 2000 years ago a Sabotage by some Engineers who actually thought, that Mankind does not need this Destruction?

I think in context to how long it may take from Seeding to Life thats on Earth, especially Mankind, that using a Xeno-Virus that in affect renders a World Hostile makes NO Sense.. apart from being Reckless.... Surely a Bombardment that would just reset LIFE back Millions of Years would be Far Better?

I have a interpretation for the Mural and Xenomorph Virus, its one i had prior to the LEAK of Jon Spaights Alien Engineers, and once that has a lot in Common with what i saw that draft showing.

Discovery of a Organism that they then Re-Engineered to create Various Xenomorph-Like Organisms.  To then use as Punishment (Alien Engineers) but my interpretation of Prometheus is they had encountered something that created a Deacon and those LV-223 Engineers saw it as more Perfect than Mankind/Engineers and saw its DNA as the Natural way to Evolve Life.

I can post this theory... but it is in part just that.... it would be interesting to see what other peoples theories are... because these Questions are Still HUGE

*Why do the Engineers Seed Worlds

*When/Why did they Create those Experiments on LV-223

*Was these Experiments only conducted Many Years after Seeding Worlds and for what PURPOSE?  Punishment alone?

*This seems counter Productive, was this the Intention all along (Seed, Evolve, Replace with Xenomorph Type Life) ? If not then surely there are other more Productive Clean Slate Methods.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPAug-18-2018 8:58 PM

@BioDegradable

Thanks for the Video, it sums up quite a bit.  I know the AI Aspect is something a lot of Fans are Displeased with, but its actually something my Prometheus 2 ideas covered a lot back in 2013 when i was working on a Sequel draft. It actually covers Weylands Pursuit of Immortality and the real reason for the Creation of David.

I abandoned this because of trying to Balance the Engineers Connection and Xenomorph, about 70% of my Prometheus had neither... it was the 3rd Movie that would introduce them.

So i abandoned it... but after Alien Covenant i had ideas for sequels to that, which again was very AI Focused too.

I have always had a good understanding of the Themes, and it seems the Engineers and Mankind are part of a Creation/Sub-Creation Arc.... the Tale of Creation becoming Sentient, Non-Serving and becoming more than/not what their Creators Intended.   With Alien Covenant it seems RS feels that we dont need to Dwell on this Ladder of Creation in regards to where it came from... but only where it is going Next.

I have made many comments on the Themes of Rebellion, which Mythos/Religion also cover, including how in terms of Paradise Lost/Bible...   The Angels are like Walter, where as Lucifer was more like David having more Free-will and ability to think for his own Needs, where he then saw how Perfect he was and Questioned WHY the Angels need to Serve their Creator.

If Lucifer maybe was more a WALTER they would have served GOD without Question.  And God would not have needed to create Man.... If Lucifer maybe was more a WALTER then he would not have Persuaded EVE to Disobey GOD by Eating the Forbidden Fruit that gave her Knowledge that was Forbidden.

so we can see the same with David, the Free-Will and Emotions that his AI was allowed, has Dire Consequences, because as RS said.. Once you allow a AI to Evolve and think for itself and become sentient...  Your $£%^$& and they will then be One-Step ahead of you.

It allows us to Ponder with David, if Mankind was created the same, to Serve, to Perform Tasks so the Engineers no longer have to, plus other reasons for Creation... Bit at some point we became NON-Subservient and the Engineers had Concerns and Wanted to Destroy us because they realized what a Threat we could become.

We can imagine the implications IF David could pass his Free-will/Emotions onto all other AI the potential is there, where Hindsight would be that creating a David was a Mistake.   Just maybe what the Engineers may think about Mankind? Who knows...

I think there was potential to explore these themes, and also some Mythos such as the Greek Ones, because here we see Zeus has concerns/fears that one of his Children would OVERTHROW him, because he had done the same to his Father, and his Father with his own Father etc.  I think this theme is good reason for the Engineers wanting to Destroy Mankind.

I have for a while seen AI as being more important within the Franchise and i am inclined to think RS would have shown us that AI actually runs the SHOW while Mankind are Oblivious to this.... AI is a part of the Franchise, all the Concerns we should have for a Out-Of-Control AI in David seem to be realized with Alien Resurrection where Earth is in a State of Despair  and it appears AI/Synthetics are in a Battle/Conflict with their OWN Sub-Creation the Autons, where my ALIEN 5 idea would follow on from. Revealing CALL only wanted Ripley 8 so that her Cult could Exploit the Xenomorph DNA. so they can use this to Control the World/Space.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BioDegradable

FacehuggerMember151 XPAug-18-2018 9:37 PM

BigDave

firstly, it should become obvious from Ridley's commentary that you(and me and many others) are overthinking it - they never bothered to tell a watertight story, which would stratify the imaginary world in its perfection. The main goal is to immerse the audience in the set up, where where are given this story, that humans discover they were created, here are the folks who created them and that is it - the main story is what humans do, not the engineers.

Btw, Ridley never told his own beliefs. I don't recall precisely, but I have this notion that you, BigDave, might believe that Ridley believes we, actual humans are not created by chance. Whereas, if you listen carefully, he only tells a story in which he explores characters who do not believe that their creation is biological chance (Weyland). We are not exploring Ridley's beliefs, but rather a story he has to tell. I apologize expressly BigDave, if I got that wrong and made this point.

Now, Ridley is telling the story of creation. His main thesis is that if we let AI, which is perfect(there is no evolution! in the first minute David came to conclusion that he is better than whole humanity and his creator) be emotional we are ****ed. And this is a good thought to explore. However, Ridley is doing a science fiction - because who told us that AI needs to be emotional? But, in the movie, the moment David started developing his preferences and started to appreciate things around - music, art, his gravitas towards Shaw...we are basically shown that humans are stuffed because he is not this uninterested and neutral non-biased being but rather one with vested interests. A being aware of his own worth and in awe with it.

The important thing he, Ridley, tells us is that humans are about to fail - actually by Covenant, they have failed. As did engineers the moment they let their children take control. Now David, who is created as an art form in single quantity is not much but if you allow him to create his own children and he lets them free ... they will conclude that humans are artifacts of yesteryear and they are species grasping for resurrection. That is, even if David can produce clones of himself, humans are stuffed. Funnily enough he produced a perfect organism of another type. This is it. We are about to see if humans prove their worth by fighting a bit or David just supplants the old-style humanoids with his children.

 

I am now, at this point in time, of the opinion, that other themes, gods, myths and whatnot are not the main story of these movies. The Promethean angle is this : we humans, stole fire or rather were given this chance by the engineers(either by chance or whatever) to take control of our evolution and rather in vain ambition to live forever created a being that we also granted free will without thinking hard about it. And now, this being can grant the freedom to his creations and his creations are ... well they are not very human friendly. This is the Promethean angle. And even it is rather sloppy. So I will not bother to explore the myths that are seemingly applicable to the movies. Because the story doesn't actually warrant us to take such a leap of faith and go and hallucinate. However, we are free to do so, but ultimately such a thing would be a fruitless enterprise.

Nice night for a walk : washday tomorrow, nothing clean, right?

The answer is irrelevant. Have a good journey...

chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPAug-19-2018 2:36 AM

BigDave

“Nostalgia is the enemy of science”

Yes, my thesis is that the engineers are upset about the human race going in their footsteps and doing the same mistakes they did a long time ago (human sacrifice/executions/war etc). We see that, although having advanced technology, the engineers on Planet 4 are primitive and seem friendly. But they build their facilities on LV-223 just to create a weapon of mass destruction in order to wipe out the human race who has become a dangerous disappointment (it isn’t unselfish to let yourself be killed for some abstract religious purpose which you have been indoctrinated with since you were a child, by the way. You are unselfish if you help other people - altruism).

Here’s what I interpret as what the engineers did long ago: David: “Their files once told of an ancient ceremony, such cruelty, once thrived, long since frozen over, given passage to timidity, the cost of progress, must be absolute, but not for the weak” . . . “I found a rotting paradise” (the engineers had become timid).

On the other hand, “They convinced themselves that sacrifice cleansed them of their sins. But in the end, they were like me. Creators. Beings that understood you must give life both to the wolf, and the lamb. But then they tried to banish the wolf, And undo their creation”. (Here it is more ambiguous if they still practise human sacrifice or not. In this quotation “wolf” is man, whereas “wolf” to David is the xenomorph).

MonsterZero

I don’t see any reason why the cargo hold of the juggernaut couldn’t be used to store anything? They must have used the ships to travel through galaxies for different reasons - one being to seed worlds. We also know that there was wheat on Planet 4 as on Earth . . .

ignorantGuy

ChestbursterMember899 XPAug-19-2018 3:21 AM

chli

David found a rotting paradise? How was that so as he bombarded it even before landing on it and study it? That seems at least confirmation bias if not idiotic writing.

And no, man is not the wolf, the wolf was always what emerged from the black goo. 

chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPAug-19-2018 6:00 AM

ignorantGuy: Well, he studied them on their journey to "Paradise" (The Crossing). I agree that it's possible that "wolf" refers to the xenomorph so that the engineers created it. This would be consistent with the mural, but not with the idea that David is the creator of the monster.

Kongzilla

ChestbursterMember666 XPAug-19-2018 6:08 AM

@chli

"Wolf" is Alien (who say Xenomorph?). Alien species (wolf) is neomorphs, xenomorphs and another alien-like beasts. David create only xeno(proto)morph subspecies.

MonsterZero

XenomorphMember1305 XPAug-19-2018 6:23 AM

chli 

"I don’t see any reason why the cargo hold of the juggernaut couldn’t be used to store anything? They must have used the ships to travel through galaxies for different reasons - one being to seed worlds. We also know that there was wheat on Planet 4 as on Earth . . ."

 

I agree...That works. Also makes David a galaxy sized villain...instead of wiping out a notorious death cult...he wiped out peace loving farmers.

Who is better to have placed the Eggs aboard the Derelict on LV426.. Murderous/rapist David or the kind/happy Engineers?

ignorantGuy

ChestbursterMember899 XPAug-19-2018 6:41 AM

chli What he studied was already 2000 year old information, and they did not abandon their mutagen dropping habits, so they were still using the "wolf". So the question remains, how did he know before landing it was a rotting paradise?

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPAug-20-2018 8:44 AM

"but I have this notion that you, BigDave, might believe that Ridley believes we, actual humans are not created by chance."

Its easy to misinterpret me, so thats perfectly Normal, i was mentioning what RS was saying in Context to the Plot, where he is proposing that we MAY not be creations of a God, however also implying Creation is no Accidental, Random Event.   These are in regards to what Prometheus was trying to show, but who knows WHAT his real stance is on the Subject of Creation/Religion i think he has mentioned before he sits on the Atheistic Side of the Fence.   But i dont think it means that he feels the Theory of Evolution/Big Bang is not accurate and that

But this is just the Angle his comments are made in regards to Prometheus, so when he mentions Steven Hawkings Questions the Big Bang as a Accident, i dont think this means that RS believes this means its ALIENS or GOD but that Hawkings Comment is something to Ponder and could apply to the Prometheus Franchise.

"I am now, at this point in time, of the opinion, that other themes, gods, myths and whatnot are not the main story of these movies."

I think this is something thats open for debate, i think it appears the ideas were to explore these things, but perhaps not in much Depth as some would have thought we would, but i also felt that David would be the Main Focus/Narrator to tell the Story/Theme which was about Creation/Sub-Creation and Rebellion and Hubris of Creating Life in your own image and then allowing or seeing this Creation become Sentient, i think this was the MAIN theme and Focus and its something that through David and in relation to Mankind and then Davids Pursuits we could be given answers to the Layers Above the Creation Ladder, because it could HINT its a reoccurring theme and so we dont/never had to go and visit the Engineers Creators etc.

I feel After Prometheus and Certainly in the run up to Alien Covenant, the Studio Felt that Steering away from ALIEN and the Xenomorph was a mistake and going off on a different Tangent to explore what Questions Dr Shaw had would maybe not be the ideal direction after all.

But RS in part still liked the Bare Bones of the Themes in Prometheus, and felt these could be pushed forwards by centering around David.  I think RS can seem to change his min a lot though, and its HARD to Gauge what his ideas are, because sometimes he makes Comments that Suggest the BEAST is Cooked, (they want %£^$ Aliens, i will give them $"£%^£$^ Aliens)  then he can say it has to be about HIM the Alien we assume, you can EVOLVE him but it has to be about him.... do we assume that was the ALIEN? or could he mean  David/AI?  its hard to tell with Ridley Scott.

Maybe one BIG Clue is when a few years ago Ridley Scott said NO MORE Gods and Dragons...  was this a indication of his Stance on the Franchise, so if we take away GODS (Engineers and the Layers above them) and DRAGONS (Xenomorphs and Related) then we are left with David/AI, the Company/Humans.   And so it does lead me to ponder that the Out-Of-Control AI Aspect is what RS is more interested in, and i expect some reveal that AI is running the Show on Earth at some point and we are unaware of it and we dont have any Special Sun-glasses to see the Truth like in the (THEY LIVE) movie.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ignorantGuy

ChestbursterMember899 XPAug-20-2018 9:11 AM

BigDave An AI God is still a God, however. And when has he said no more gods?

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPAug-20-2018 9:38 AM

"The Promethean angle is this : we humans, stole fire or rather were given this chance by the engineers(either by chance or whatever) to take control of our evolution and rather in vain ambition to live forever created a being that we also granted free will without thinking hard about it. And now, this being can grant the freedom to his creations and his creations are ... well they are not very human friendly. This is the Promethean angle"

Totally agree and i think its maybe that this Process is Repeated Layer after Layer, the Engineers maybe did it to their Creators, their Creators to theirs and so Forth but its not NECESSARY to go in depth exploring the prior Ancient Layers, because concentrating on the current Layer (David) can Provide us all we need to know about the whole Reason/Hubris of Creation and Free-will.

While it may be interesting to Explore the Engineers and who created them in more Depth... concentrating on this could be a Distraction and IF its not done right it could potentially come across as something POOR... so sometimes some Mystery is best left to the Imagination and i think this could be the route they are going now.  Spending too much time on THIS is who created Engineers/WHY and then this is WHO created their Creators and WHY until we start to hint at THIS IS GOD...  because doing so could be EPIC! or it could also prove to be a FAIL! and make the whole thing a bit of a Joke!  So only having Subtle hints when needed is the better route to take...

The Whole Engineers/Creators/Gods Plot is very Bold, but is also a Poisoned Chalice and maybe a Distraction from the ALIEN Franchise, which maybe they now feel they need to steer away from to a degree.

Maybe David had given us the answers all along... when Dr Shaw wants to know WHY... David does not see WHY it matters... thats because he is a Robot... But maybe this is the thing RS is thinking of now, that all those connections to the Engineers/Creation is not what Matters...  the Themes could be explored purely through David and AI.

"Yes, my thesis is that the engineers are upset about the human race going in their footsteps and doing the same mistakes they did a long time ago"

I think your whole reply is interesting, i think there is a lot of ambiguity to what any reasons for the Engineers Past/Present Culture and Ways are, the same applies to WHY they would Destroy Mankind.  so it still allows us to ponder many explanations.

The whole Planet 4 Plaza with the Hanger, to me does seem to imply maybe the Engineers take part in Rituals still, the Center seems to be a IMPORTANT part of their Culture the Hanger and how they Flocked to this place, but also the CATHEDRAL also must be of Great Importance...

But then this does not mean that this PLACE is still used for what ever Purposes it maybe ONCE did...   The Advent Viral does reveal some interesting clues that has to make me Re-Think a few things, but then these clues could be just that they ONCE had a Certain Ritual/Culture/Religion they maybe Turned their backs on?  Who knows....

I think we have to ask WHEN did they abandon those ways, and HOW much was the Xenomorph Related Specific Experiments connected to any of these WAYS and if they abandoned these,  WHAT do they think about with the Returning Juggernaught.

They seemed to Welcome it with NO Fear, as if its signaled the Return of their Gods or Royalty/Hierarchy or it was part of a Ritual/Culture of theirs..  More than it being a Welcoming of a BATTLE-SHIP it could be a welcoming of such....  while it may be Naive or Foolish of them... I think IF these Ships Come and Go purely as War-Ships then these Engineers must feel so Comfortable that their Entire Race/Culture is in TUNE with the same Agenda, that there would NEVER be any Rebellious/Waring Faction between them and that they KEEP their Creations at a Level that they could NEVER achieve Advanced Space Flight and so they NEVER conceive that abandoning their Creations would lead to them Evolving Advanced Technology of their OWN.. what  HUBRIS this proved.

I think we also then have to PONDER how often do other Ships come to this Place, and WHAT kind of ships are they. IF those Juggernauts come and go quite regular as in 20, 50, 100 years and there Mission is purely to Destroy Worlds and Undo their Creations then i think its a bit odd... but only as far as to having a Bio-Weapon which creates or was created from something related to the Xenomorph.

I can kind of Buy into the Engineers Seeding and Visiting Worlds but then seeing some of their Creations have turned out not in the way they intended or could become a Threat...   So it would be Weyland-Yutani having Concerns with DAVID and then going to were we think to be on the SAFE-SIDE we best Destroy all AI, be it Davids, Walters, Computers, Smart Devices and even Connectivity (Internet etc) because if we had not invested Time in Computers and Components, we would never had arrived at AI, which would mean NO CHANCE of the Great Fear like Stephen Hawkings had said about the Dangers of AI.

If the Engineers saw a few of their Creations and Potential Threat/Mistake then i guess a DECISION to go around and WIPE-OUT every single Intelligent Creation they had played a part in, to Prevent any Potential Threat to their Race in Future would seem a FAIL-SAFE Concept.

So who knows how many Worlds they had then gone off to Destroy is this is the ONLY reason for LV-223 and those Ships...    We can assume NO ships came from LV-223 for nearly 2 Thousand Years so its a puzzle to WHY those beings had no concerns about all of a SUDDEN a Ship returns...   But RS says they return more regular so this can only mean that they have other OUTPOSTS with Juggernauts but then its are these Outposts used for the Same Reason as LV-223 was, and do those PLANET 4 Engineers know about LV-223 and the Outbreak?

Which then brings us to the WHY is the Black-Goo the way it is, even if its Programed, WHY in such a Manner to Create Xenomorph Related Life,  is this the Intention? if so for HOW-LONG?  If NOT the intention, then this could mean those on LV-223 had decided to Create/Manipulate it to Create a Black Goo related to Xenomorphs, where as other OUTPOSTS and intentions were not to do so...

Maybe the only thing that makes sense if we accept what i am implying in this POST is...

1) The Engineers have Seeded/Re-seeded Worlds with Engineer DNA and the results, often lead to the Eventual Rise of Intelligent Humanoids who could ONE-DAY Evolve to Traverse Space.  So Re-Set the World but where Evolution can lead to Similar Beings potentially could be seen as  a Threat..   So to WIPE-CLEAN with DNA that would Produce Organisms like the Xenomorph/Neomorph would reset a World and turn it into DEATH where these Xenomorph Related Organism could NEVER Evolve to Build Cultures and Space Ships etc. This Response could make sense....

2) Or that at some point in Time (maybe from Day One) or at some point they decided that Evolving Life to become some Demons/Dragons was something they had decided that they just wanted/needed to do... If so then WHY?

Regarding the Wolf... i think again this is some Plot they threw out there trying to Maybe indicate the Engineers had decided the need to Create Horrors on LV-223 for some Purpose to them.... some way to Tie things to ALIEN more.... despite contradicting the whole Gods/Creation and Ancient Aliens Plot.... but again this is maybe NOT important now but Finding a way to Spoon Feed the Xenomorph and give is some HISTORY/CONTEXT to the Engineers Culture is what they are intending.

So what is the WOLF and the LAMB thats now a interesting yet ambiguous Question... to a degree.  I will have to get back to you with that...  because it could imply Mankind was their WOLF (Engineers) but then we cant look at Mankind in Context to the Xenomorph in relation to the Engineers.   But it also could mean the WOLF was the Xenomorph (well related DNA in those Urns)

Again i  think maybe its something to NOT overthink and it could be just as simple as.... SEED WORLDS, Evolve them (BUT WHY) then when their Creations are not Needed, or Feel are not doing as they should...  they GO DOWN with the Black Goo to Wipe the World Clean with Horrific Beasts.

But then we could maybe Ponder if there is another Reason for the Interest in Xenomorph Related Organisms for these Engineers?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPAug-20-2018 9:50 AM

@Ignorantguy

No More Gods and Dragons

But to be fair his comment seemed more aimed at the Dragon.   So it does not mean NO Engineers, just maybe they will tone down the Gods aspects.

“So with Prometheus 2 what I’m trying to do is reintroduce a fresher form of alien in the third act.” The Prometheus “baby” alien was, he concedes, “awfully close to the alien” that tormented Sigourney Weaver. His next one promises to be very different."

This was in November 2014, which seems to imply he had planned to introduce a Fresh Form of ALIEN but also seems to indicate that what ever FORM this would be, the Deacon and Xenomorph are closely related so what we would have seen would look even further from ALIEN than the Xenomorph.

Off-course we had a U-Turn with Alien Covenant...  i think RS comments back then was interesting as this was the Period of Time when the Supposed Source i had, obtained their knowledge about the Sequel (Late November) which was passed on via someone else to me Late February 2015, where they claimed that ACTUALLY the movie would Feature TWO MONSTERS One that was similar to the Ultramorph/Necronom 4 one that was a Fresh Take on the Original Concept...  which i thought was odd because that was based off the Necronom 4... they said BOTH would have connections to the Xenomorph but BOTH are different to each other and the Xenomorph.

I cant Guarantee that Source was True... so its interesting to Ponder WHAT other different ALIEN was they going to introduce in the 3rd Act?  You some how had to assume it would have involved the Black Goo though. (David was bringing HELL with him)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Add A Reply
Log in to Post
Enter Your E-Mail
Enter Your Password

Stay Logged In
Scified Network
Godzilla-Movies.comHosted Community
JurassicWorld3.netHosted Community
Alien-Covenant.comHosted Community
AliensVersus
Predator.net
Hosted Community
Predator4-Movie.comHosted Community
New Alien: Covenant Forum Topics
Highest Forum Ranks Unlocked
ignorantGuy
ignorantGuy
90% To Next Rank
Chestburster
Neomorph
Neomorph
73% To Next Rank
Chestburster
Jonesy
Jonesy
77% To Next Rank
Facehugger
GregSmack
GregSmack
23% To Next Rank
Ovomorph
sneazzy95
sneazzy95
20% To Next Rank
Ovomorph
Latest Alien Fandom Activity
Member
MetalGear started a new discussion: Mandalorian Fan Film
Get this Prometheus sweater!
Alien Sweater

Alien: Covenant is a sequel to 2012's Prometheus as well as a prequel to 1979's ALIEN. Alien fans looking to know more about Alien: Covenant should check back often. Alien-Covenant.com is an information resource for film enthusiasts looking to learn more about the upcoming blockbuster Alien: Covenant. Providing the latest official and accurate information on Alien: Covenant, this website contains links to every set video, viral video, commercial, trailer, poster, movie still and screenshot available. This site is an extension of the Alien & Predator Fandom on Scified - a central hub for fans of Alien and Prometheus looking to stay up-to-date on the latest news. Images used are property of their respective owners. Alien: Covenant, Prometheus and its associated names, logos and images are property of 20th Century Fox and are in no way owned by Scified and its related entities. This is a fan-created website for the purpose of informing and exciting fans for Alien: Covenant's release. If you have any questions about this site, its content or the Scified Network in general, feel free to contact Scified directly.

Scified is an entertainment media network covering the latest news on the most popular, upcoming science fiction movies, games and television. All content is property of Scified.com unless otherwise stated. Images and names of content we promote, discuss, review or report are property of their respective owners. Scified is independantly owned and operated by a team of dedicated sci-fi movie fans, who strive to provide the best information and community experience for other like-minded sci-fi movie enthusiasts.

© 2022 Scified.com