A Shot in the Head or a Light in the Mind3,841 Views15 RepliesAdd A Reply
Ridley, no Ridley. Bugs, no bugs. Disney, no Disney. Disney or Pixar. Marvel or DC (two last ones, personal, I confess...)
But the thing is, what you're up to.
My better half loves action movies, dumb or not dumb. I like action movies as long as they're not dumber than expected. I prefer horror movies, specially those with ghosts - I don't care about vampires, wolves, demons and the sort. My better half hates them all, whatever included.
But I simply LOVE Sci-Fi, and in this sense, I adore them all, but less guns and more awareness, just like when you read SOLARIS - but not Soderberbh's movie version of it. Or when you read and watch 2001. Or watch INTERESTELLAR. Or even EVENT HORIZON. I liked STAR WARS when I was a child and that was a long time ago. But I watch them all, eagerly, expecting I'd feel dazzled - what, sometimes, doesn't happen, but I don't actually feel as frustrated as when I'm watching a very bad action movie.
So, I'm up to unusual things, and I tend to space, science and, preferably, no political or religious correctness, for we humans would be just other form of life in the universe.
I'm with Sir Ridley for the things I hope I explained above. As I am for Fincher, Lynch, Ritchie, Nolan, Villeneuve, Hitch**** and so many others it would become boring to list...
Anyway, please go ahead and tell what is or is not bothering you about the road so far in terms of ALIEN, and whether you'd prefer shots or light.
Me, myself and I, only one concern: Disney?! REALLY?!!
Disney is not the boogeyman. In the past they have produced some interesting sci-fi movies like "Tron" and "The Black Hole". On top of that I don't think they want to buy another studio in order to produce more of the same; they would probably like to keep it as a separate division.
Yeah, I agree with joylitt. I don't see any scares left really except for having humans lose and lots of creepiness left at the end. Maybe the series proper should be put to bed- and no re boots. Taken in a different direction. If Disney wants to continue, hopefully it gets passionate people involved and lets them take some risks. They are probably aware the series is not a big money maker.
I think everyone concerned about Disney meddling in the alien universe should express it here and everywhere.
I don't need a lighthearted change of tone or children in the movie. Jonesy was acceptable for the first film, unnecessary in the second one, as Newt was.
"He survived, he’s now in Disneyland in Orlando, and no way am I going back there. How did he end up in Disneyland? I saw him in Disneyland, Jesus Christ!"
The thing I despise of the road so far is the inconsistency. I mean, the first four movies were all so different due to different directors, situations, etc. and I actually love that. The Ridley Scott led prequels, however, have (so far) been a damn see-saw. I love both movies (prefer Prometheus), but it was definitely dissappointing to see Scott and the studio retreat from the initial vision because they looked at the fan reaction to characters and creatures and RAN with them. Then, of course they didn't do the greatest job with either of them in Covenant. I mean, still the vision is there masked under an Alien movie, but it became a slight disservice between the two. It also gets tough because Scott just changes his mind alone. From interviews, behind the scenes, the script, and the actual film, there are tons of diverging details and ideas that no one is trying to tie together at all.
I am not concerned about a possible Disney accquisition, at all. As I said in another thread (and joylitt said on this one) Disney is not going to purchase 21st Century Fox and make EVERYTHING into a Disney movie. Disney is a huge corporation and they do shady coporation stuff and they definitely have always functioned best in that family-friendly movie niche. Now, they are not going to change Alien, Planet of the Apes, Deadpool, etc. and they aren't going to burn those movies that don't fit their animation and family-friendly categories. What I am really worried about (if Disney does accquire Fox) is the fans. I am tired of hearing, "Disney is ruining Star Wars," "They're going to ruin Deadpool, Alien, blah blah blah." It isn't the end of the world.
I will say that I could eat my words and Disney could try something funny with some properties. It just seems logical that they wouldn't buy fox just to soil it all.
Not a map, an invitation
It is sad to see that the site is full of ridiculous threads bashing Ridley Scott and his actions containing pathetic comments that use the smallest piece of news mentioning his name to attack him lacking the smallest bit of respect towards his works.
That is the reason why I believe we need more similar topics started by you. It is a clever, rare and remarkable pearl moving against the sea of hatred mentioned above.
Thank you for that.
A picture for a thousand words: :)
I agree with you guys in most aspects, but I can't help it when I think of Pixar, all that sassy wit now so domesticated.
@ScorpioStar - IMHO Disney is a good thing, because they have deep enough pockets to properly fund Sir Ridley's next installments! I honestly enjoyed John Carter, but what do I know? HAHA!
does Disney do movies with a certificate that would allow ridley to really push the boat out?
First great points... cuponator3000 totally agree with that post..
"The thing I despise of the road so far is the inconsistency"
This i feel is one of the biggest problems.. surely when they attempted to make a Prequel Series like when they had sat down and Brainstormed ideas that lead to Jon Spaights work with Alien Engineers, they must have had some kind of A-Z Plan or knowledge as far as a Personnel Alien Bible/Encyclopedia even if they dont intend to Spoon Feed us every element, they themselves must have a True Back Story A-Z roughly fleshed out.
But what we have ended up with is a constant changing of ideas and directions without considering the impact these have with any pre-set our clues and Lore. Its kind of a make it up as it goes along, too many cooks in the kitchen kind of situation... (I have a Fun Related Topic like this coming soon).
There are reasons for some of these changes though.... a lot has to do with Pressure from FOX, but Ultimately they own the Franchise, and they Spend the £££££$$$$$$$ and so Ridley Scott has to compromise with what the Studio thinks is best.
The Disney acquisition if this happens, could be of GREAT Benefit or a Disaster, not because they will make a Child Friendly Alien Franchise.... But....
1) They could actually have Faith in RS work and his frustrations at change of directions at the hands of FOX executives, and so Disney could turn around to RS and say look, Alien was you Baby, we are going to let you dictate how ever you want to explore and expand these Prequels.
2) Or the Disney Executives could decide they want more input and put their Spin/Ideas into the Franchise, if Disney Purchased 20th Century and then they decided they wanted the Alien Prequels to reveal the Predators play a larger role than Engineers etc.... then RS could totally object but ultimately Disney just get someone else to direct what they want.
As far as the Direction....
The Prequels started as a kind of loose Literal Prequel, more so with Alien Engineers, before they decided that actually the Curve-ball Engineers Plot and Agenda is something more interesting to explore, rather than Spoon Fed Literal and Direct Alien Prequel about the Xenomorph which is just a Engineered Bio-Weapon created to Destroy Mankind...
So they was planning a New Franchise that would step away from a Literal Prequel Series to the events of Alien. However seeing some disappointment with Prometheus and having no Aliens, and how Alien 5 seemed to be gaining interest, FOX saw that actually maybe it was a mistake to make a Prequel Spin off that would deviate from the Xenomorph.
And thus the NEW Prequel Series came into Fruition, with a ALIEN Prefix and a Agenda to show how the Xenomorph came to be and eventually explain (at least to a degree) how those Eggs got onto the Derelict.
Now they have decided on this PATH to link to Alien with a ALIEN Prefix, and looking how AC started to show us HOW, WHY, WHEN and WHERE our Xenomorph was created, they simply cant deviate again and so the Prequels have to be at least to some degree about the Xenomorphs.
While some fans want to cover what Prometheus was trying to do, and the Engineers to be explored, we have to remember what AC and Prometheus did with the Engineers, which was that LV-223 had only One Survivor who is dead without giving answers.
The Answers we was looking for, are to some degree found out by David during his time from when Dr Shaw had collected Davids Body Parts, and to when David had unleashed hell on the Engineers on Planet 4 and then had Free-Rein of the ruins of their Civilization.
This information was not relayed to us, because AC was a Aftermath movie, which means David can via Flash Backs and Narrative give us some insight into the Engineers in future movies, but the likelihood of having a movie that covers the events between Prometheus and Alien Covenant is unlikely at best.
The Engineers are to return and perhaps more could be covered about them when they do, but the Franchise also has to cover the Alien, because so far we have a number of Eggs on Planet 4, David with only TWO Face Huggers on his way to Origae-6 and at some point Davids creation must Evolve and end up in their Thousands on a Engineer Ship in the Zeta 2 Reticuli System which we can be sure is NO-WHERE near Origae-6
So i feel any hope of a Engineer based movie, has to come as a separate Spin Off Franchise, which maybe they would have to take off any ALIEN Prefix unless it covers Xenomorph DNA/Origins to some degree.
ALIEN: is Synonymous with the Xenomorph and Ripley and while many can accept that Alien Prequels or Parallel movies do not have to be about Ripley, they would be hard to accept the ALIEN Franchise is actually not about the Xenomorph.
If the Franchise expanded 3-5 more movies, with the ALIEN Prefix but they are about the Weyland Company and AI, would Fans accept this? It would Split them thats for sure... what about if it was about the Engineers? Maybe that would be more accepted.
The Engineers are ALIEN after all, but then also David is connected to the Xenomorph now and so he plays part of the Xenomorphs History..
I think Fans have to Accept and take on board that the Xenomorph is just a extension of the Black Goo and the Black Goo is actually the ALIEN of the Franchise, the Black Goo has many similar applications and so any ALIEN Franchise movies has to cover this Substance or related to it, and it does not have to be about Traditional Xenomorphs.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I'm actually relieved for what you wrote it's been on my mind.
I started following this site, as a shadow only, when it was still called "PROMETHEUS 2 - PARADISE LOST", and I felt quite clearly that Sir Ridley was forced to rethink his original plans because of FOX and the bug fans.
Just after the site had "Alien" on its link, there came all the fuss. What if Sir Ridley had had the chance to follow his original plans and in his own way?
Well that is the big question, we can only go by what comments Ridley Scott had mentioned, Alien Engineers was pretty much a more Xeno Flick, it had equal share of Religious/Philosophy (more so than Prometheus) with a equal share of Xenomorph type Action and covering the Engineers. FOX actually liked the Curve-ball about the Space Jockey Race (Engineers) and decided maybe they could make this a kind of Spin-off than a Direct Prequel and so Lindeloff was brought in to tone down any Xenomorph DNA.
In Hindsight, this disappointed a number of the Fanbase (Ridley Scott even said during Promotion of AC that in Hindsight removing the Xenomorphs was a mistake) and so FOX simply Felt that bringing in the Xenomorph and making the Movies now Tie more Literally into Alien was the way to go so that this movie would impress more Fans and General Public than Prometheus did.
On a lot of sites like this, Youtube and other Forums of Communication regarding the Franchise, a number of gripes by Fans was pointed towards Prometheus and its Lack of Xenomorphs, its concentration on Dr Shaws Religious Curiosity and Quest for Answers, rather than what a lot of Fans Wanted and Expected from a Alien Prequel... Which was HOW/WHERE/WHEN and WHY the Xenomorph came to be. FOX no doubt also so the interest that Blomkamps Alien 5 had gained and Ultimately i feel they realized that Actually the Fans want the Xenomorph back and Answers and they must have thought Changing the Plot to deal with this would be a movie that more people would see and that means more $$$$$$
Next i will try and cover what Picture was being painted with Prometheus 2
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
After the release of Prometheus Ridley Scott had said although the movie could kind of be seen as a Stand Alone Movie, it Logically was left open to lean towards it requiring a sequel. RS had said that actually it could become more than one Sequel, he also stated that Prometheus left it open with what it was showing and that on One Hand it could lead to Alien, but then the other ending could lead to something New a New Direction.
And that you could not leave the Cliff-hanger of Dr Shaw and David leaving LV-223, you had to go to where they was heading. And so a sequel would steer further away from Alien.
He latter added that THEY (Shaw and David) would be off to the Engineers Homeworld, and that they will find these beings, but these beings are not GOD's (not in the traditional sense) and they are far from Benevolent. However David will be bringing Hell with him.
Ridley Scott also mentioned at this time, he Did-Not want to meet GOD in the first movie, this was in reference to the removal of the Elder Engineers. He also referred to the Engineers as Fallen Angels.
Not a lot during the next few years came about regarding P2 only that now and again RS has said they are planning to make a sequel and it would follow David and Shaw as they are off to Paradise, he also now and again asked the Question what is Paradise, and how maybe Paradise could be a very dark concoction of a place.
We had Rumors P2 was off, then on again and then that Jack Paglen was approached to work on a Draft, we then had RS confirm a number of drafts had been worked on, and its making good progress. Then it was announced that Micheal Green would come in and work on the drafts by Paglen.
Then it all went a bit quite, at a time when Alien 5 by Blomkamp was announced as a idea by Niel Blomkamp while he was working on Chappy.... It then came out that P2 looked unlikely as they appeared to be having trouble with a Script. Now and again RS had mentioned that a P2 would happen, and brought up about the Engineers being Fallen Angels and also about they have looked at John Miltons Paradise Lost. He did also mentioned again they would be going to the Engineers Homeworld, and David would be back in one piece and once David is back together he could become very Dangerous.
But then nothing came out for a while as attention was drawn to if Alien 5 would happen, which latter Ridley Scott had said it was a interesting idea and he would be Producer. It was around this time, or not so long after that someone i know, had spoken to someone who claimed to have information about Prometheus 2, (passed on to me about February 27th 2015) which was going to drop the Prometheus name, and be called either Paradise Lost or would be called Pandemonium. I wont go into detail about what they hinted the movie would be about, but it was to give answers from Prometheus and follow the Agenda of the Engineers and introduce TWO Monsters, and More than one David. And hinted that David Re-creates (Xeno or Deacon) and Shaws role is small but a a Large Part of the Plot.
Then we heard nothing...... but then latter RS had announced that indeed Prometheus 2 was getting the Go head, the Script was done, and also Alien 5 is put on indefinite hold. Again RS then announced the Title would be ALIEN: Paradise Lost.
Again he brought up about David and Shaw going to the Engineers Homeworld, and how David will be back in one piece and how they had a very interesting way this happens, and also suggesting again that David in one piece would be Dangerous. He again mentioned inspiration from the Paradise Lost Poem. He then also mentioned the Engineers are not Creators or God, and then he mentioned if the Engineers are the Forerunners of Mankind, then who/what makes it so Worlds are able for this to happen... where is the BIG GUY?
He mentioned about how the Big Bang maybe is not a accident and how Stephen Hawkings even thinks this, and then he also mentioned about the Fallen Angels and how he saw those Engineers as Fallen Angels and Aggressive $"££$&^ but then he also said... You have One Guy who is Hansom, goes to all the Parties gets all the Girls, while you have another Guy who is not as Hansom and stays at home being boring.
Then it was only a matter of weeks before RS announced the Movie is going head and would now be called ALIEN: Covenant... and it would be about how THEY (David and Shaw) are off to the Planet of the Engineers, but there would be another group (Human Explorers) incoming, he then also mentioned about how they are off to the Engineers World which could be a dark and sinister place and not the Paradise, the incoming Humans are expecting. He then mentions that the purpose of the Movie, is to show WHO and WHY would someone make such a Horrific Beast, if Felt like a Weapon, it was Bio-Mechnoid and the movie would begin to answer those Questions to who would make such a thing.
Then we got some insight into a kind of early Synopsis, regarding they are off to the Planet of the Engineers, where they would discover a EVOLVING Creature which THEY had made. This They was a interesting statement as surely it could not mean They as in the incoming Human Colonist? So it appeared we was being led to it being the ENGINEERS... but then the THEY could mean David and Shaw?
And it was then we started to get a Full Synopsis, Cast Information, Shooting Dates etc etc... and we ended up with the Movie that was ALIEN COVENANT. Which did not quite add up to what Ridley Scott had been saying just before and just after announcing ALIEN: Paradise Lost never mind the comments over the years prior.
The clues the Source had passed on actually did seem to add up to RS comments prior to the Source and even Months after, and so indeed its very likely that the Original Prometheus 2 Ideas where very different.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
@BigDave, thanks again. Intriguing, as usual.
And as you are someone (among other people, of course) who writes what I actually read here, may I ask (and, please, make up your mind): A Shot in the Head or A Light in the Mind?
I think it depends what you mean by a Shot in the Head and Light in the Mind? Maybe i just could not quite understand how the OT was laid out to lead to one of these, but thats no fault of yours.
I assume you was asking is the direction we have taken with the Franchise a Enlightening Prospect for the Franchise or has the direction shot itself in the Foot so to speak.
If this is correct then i would have to say i feel the Franchise with Alien Covenant has Shot itself in the Head, but its not all bad, it can be resurrected, just the approach taken does limit the way the Engineers could have been explored compared to if AC Plot had been tackled differently and also by now going the path of a more direct set of prequels leading us to WHO, HOW, WHEN and WHY the Xenomorph was created, which AC kind of answered, all thats needed is to Set up how Davids Creations end up on the Derelict.
which kind of limits the avenues this can be explored, but now they have gone this PATH they cant abandon it.
Some Fans wanted the Space Jockey to be kept a Mystery... Sorry this looks unlikely.
Some Fans wanted the Space Jockey to be a Skeleton of a Large Alien Race, Sorry this wont happen.
Some Fans are now hoping that the Xenomorph will not be Davids Creation, again sorry this wont happen.
The only kind of saving Grace now is IMO and kind of the Plot i was going to start to touch upon in my Prometheus 2, and mainly answer in P3, was to have the Engineers merely be just as David is and a Servant Species to some higher, yet still Humanoid Race who come back and find their Servant Race/Crop has been decimated and they are off to find out by whom.... or similar and so reveal the Space Jockey as a 12ft Tall Race (still a Space Suit) who then discover Davids Creations and then decide to take them to LV-223 to Evolve them.
This explains why the Davids Creation, is a bit different and ends up on the Derelict in the LV-223/426 system, it introduces a Race of Taller beings above the Engineers who can be portrayed as more sinister and awe inspiring.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017