Alien Movie Universe

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ChestbursterMember935 XPOct-11-2017 2:27 AM

We’ve had a lot of discussions about surviving engineers, engineer babies, reviving of dead engineers and what have you.

My personal opinion is that these hypotheses are the product of the imagination of the artists who made David’s sketches (not necessarily part of the storyline or Scott’s intentions). The sketches are supposed to be looked at from a distance, giving an idea of David’s endeavours.

If you listen to Scott’s audio commentary to AC, we get the information that creatures seen in David’s lab are “permutations” and the result of a lack of human DNA.

If David had access to (living) engineers, the result would probably have been even more hideous than the xeno-like creature erupting from Oram's (and Lopé's) ribcage, perhaps what we get a glimpse of in the mural . . .

But, David lacks human DNA (engineer DNA are sufficiently close since they are humanoids) and so The Covenant crew is needed (and most welcome). Oram and Lopé are the unfortunate guys who contribute with human DNA (which is what the facehugger needs - a suitable host for the gestation of its embryo).

So David dabbles in creation using the pathogen, crossbreeding and hybridization with eggs from Shaw, flora, and what's left of the fauna (mostly insects) on Planet 4. But he can't get any further without suitable DNA from humanoids . . .

5 Responses to Permutation


ChestbursterMember839 XPOct-11-2017 7:57 AM

I told myself recently that we need to be mindful of the easter eggs and minute details found here. The story from Scott is confusing enough... With all the extra/background content we have, whoa. It's a jumble. I mean, I am all for the eternal speculation and attempt to make sense of it all (and have fun), but just have to remember that a lot of what we deal with here won't be acknowledged in the following film(s). 

But yes, chli, your post seems to sum up what we were shown in Covenant pretty darn well. By the time David got to really working on the Neo-/Xenomorphs, he had no way of getting to Engineer DNA. He also had only so much that he could do with Shaw. From there, he had to result to insects and plants to try and complete his puzzle. I mean, I'll be damned though because he supposedly improved what the Engineers had done with the Xenomorph. He did it with almost none of the advantages that the Engineers might have had!

Not a map, an invitation


ChestbursterMember935 XPOct-11-2017 7:45 PM


I agree. It seems unnecessary to bring in living (or worse reanimated) engineers in the equation. He came as far as he could without human (or humanoid) DNA (hosts) to blend with his creation.

It seems (when looking at the extras on the blu-ray) that he got the xenomorph-like creature's exoskeleton through crossbreeding with bugs.


PraetorianMember3422 XPOct-11-2017 7:52 PM

Good catch chli.

"If you listen to Scott’s audio commentary to AC, we get the information that creatures seen in David’s lab are “permutations” and the result of a lack of human DNA."

I remember David called the creatures "unions" and, yes, many were different organisms from what a humanoid host should provide based on what we saw in other films.

I Moon Girl

ChestbursterMember611 XPOct-11-2017 8:00 PM

chli said, "I agree. It seems unnecessary to bring in living (or worse reanimated) engineers in the equation. He came as far as he could without human (or humanoid) DNA (hosts) to blend with his creation."

I like this analysis and this is the one I will personally witness, unless more information is provided in Alien: Awakening.  It would be very disrespectful for our answers to our questions are scoured across the internet by the people who did work on Alien: Covenant.

I will accept that there are answers out there on the internet, but I don't plan on looking for them.  I'll just read about them if people post them on A:C.  I'm not dedicating my life to finding more answers about Alien: Covenant.  Apparently there are answers out there.

chli, I'm glad someone is taking the movie for what it is.


ChestbursterMember935 XPOct-11-2017 8:34 PM


Yes, and to me, the most reasonable interpretation for the mounted engineer in David's lab is that he found a relatively "good looking" corpse in the plaza (there apparently were about 2 million to choose from), not too deformed by the pathogenic cloud? Also, when the Covenant crew get to see them (and we in the audience), ten years have passed . . .

I Moon Girl

Well, I don't mind speculations, but sometimes I feel that they are a bit too fantastic. :) I think the best sci-fi movies are the ones which try to get an air of realism to them (which I think Scott tries to do).

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