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What did Elisabeth Shaw know after 'The Crossing'?

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Cerulean Blue

FacehuggerMember446 XPJul-07-2017 12:20 PM

Ok, we do not know whether David & Elisabeth Shaw stopped off anywhere before Planet 4, right?  The fact that David did not say so, does not really make it true.  In 'The Crossing' we do not really know anything more than Dr. Shaw re-attached David's head & the two seemed to get along quite well.  What if David took Shaw to another planet before planet 4, where she did get her answers?  What if she was so disturbed by those answers that she agreed to help David & allowed him to use her?  What say you all?

15 Responses to What did Elisabeth Shaw know after 'The Crossing'?

Leeta

OvomorphMember43 XPJul-07-2017 1:04 PM

I like to think she was awaken after David had destroyed the civilization. He then told her what had happened and why he had done it. And I think out of fear, she 'agreed' with him even though something wasn't adding up with the whole situation. She was becoming afraid of him and noticed he was becoming more and more crazy by the day. And perhaps she had also witnessed him experiment on possible survivors of the goo bombing. She may have even pulled up some ''cctv'' footage from the ship and watch him drop the canisters onto the people below.

So, she began to secretly think of a plan to escape from him. But, she knew the only way to escape was to use the ship and would have to think of a plan to distract him. This, in my mind, would explain why the ship crashed because when he realized she was trying to leave him he felt betrayed, and that's when he killed her out of rage causing the ship to crash.

VivisectedEngineer

ChestbursterMember725 XPJul-07-2017 1:17 PM

@Cerulean Blue

I think that's an example of something that's tempting to believe mostly because the alternative is pretty sad...

 

I suppose it is conceivable that they stopped off somewhere else before Planet 4 but I don't think she would have allowed David to use her in the way that he did.

 

In Prometheus, she acted very selflessly to prevent the Engineer pilot from destroying life on Earth. I don't think she would have willingly contributed to David's plan to engineer this structurally perfect and equally hostile organism.

 

Hopefully Shaw got to meet her makers and get her answers in this life or the next...

Cerulean Blue

FacehuggerMember446 XPJul-07-2017 1:26 PM

@Leeta - David is quite the jealous type!

@VivisectedEngineer - I know, it is sad.  I guess I have had time to think of alternative ways she may have agreed to help destroy the evil Engineer plans?

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPJul-07-2017 4:35 PM

This is one of those 64M $$$ Questions... rightfully something to debate and something i think Fans hoped the Prequel book would cover... which it will not.

I think its open for debate but we need to look at the clues and again with any debate when looking at clues, it depends what clues we use as to determine likely explanations.

The Movie alone is Ambiguous, we vaguely see Dr Shaw, so its hard to figure out what has happened.  10 years had past from Prometheus to Alien Covenant and Dr Shaws Body does seem to be well preserved for 10 years... so we can assume she has not been like this for 10 years but also we dont know if David found ways to keep her like this... he could have drained her of Fluids and thus Embalmed her etc.

If we consider the Crossing though, then her Hair Growth is Long and a Human Female would need 6-12 Months to Grow that Hair.  So we can make from this that Dr Shaw had at very least waited a fair few months before she felt confident to Put David back together again.  So we can debate did she leave soon, and managed to Escape LV-223 with David in TWO Parts? Before latter she re-attached him.

I would say David has his own Agenda, and if Shaw knew she could get him to take her where she wanted with David in TWO Parts then she would not need him repaired.. and So David would do everything he could to make sure THINK she would be unable to leave without David in One Piece.

Once Dr Shaw was in Cryo-sleep at this very moment DAVID is Free to do what he wants and go where he Wants and we have to look at his AGENDA ....  He does not want to Die and Remain just a Head, he has Goals and Agendas... the upbringing by Weyland has impacted David and David feels that he is more than just a simply Servant and Tool.

Dr Shaw has NOTHING... She Lost EVERYTHING.. All She wanted was to Get HER ANSWERS If she was given the Choice of not getting Answers and Surviving or to Face One of these Beings and ASK her Questions with the Chance she may GET THEM but also BE KILLED or maybe even JUST BE KILLED i think she would take that CHANCE.

David had found out a fair bit about the Engineers, he certainly knows how insignificant Mankind is to them, and he surely knows how a Engineer had received him.

David had tried to Welcome and Embrace a Engineer before and that never ended up well for him... i think he would not want to RISK this again. So if David can find out a bit more about them during his time alone, he could make a Risk Assessment and he would conclude that simply being accepted by these BEINGS on Paradise and Given Answers and Welcomed... is something that far from can be GUARANTEED

David does not want to take any Chances that Shaw meet these beings who may just embrace their arrival with the same fashion the Engineer did in Prometheus.

For David he would rather Take them out with the Black Goo where he can then see First Hand what this Bio-Weapon was intended for as far as its delivery...   

Then he is free to go through the Ruins of their Civilization and Learn as much as he can from these Ruins...  Doing so he could maybe PROVIDE Dr Shaw some ANSWERS

And so i think this is what he CHOSE to do... I think there is a Good Chance he would Lie to Shaw, and say he found out someway the Engineers Intentions and explained that he had no Choice to do what he did... but from the Ruins he could give her Answers.

I think because he was FOND of Dr Shaw he would have kept her in Cryo-sleep while he Bombarded the Engineers.

I dont think he would have awoken her before and asked her what she wanted to do, or say what he Found Out or even Lied or Exaggerate it just so he could get her Seal of Approval

I think things could have started to be ok... but i do think Dr Shaw may have uncovered a few things David was up to that may have lead to her not Trusting Him.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPJul-07-2017 4:41 PM

I think if we look at some Clues... David claimed he Loved Dr Shaw, and when he attacked Daniels he said he was going to do the same to her as he did with Dr Shaw... we have to remember he tried to Mount and Kiss her.... and when he talked to Walter he asked if Walter Loved Daniels.

So i think Davids feelings for Dr Shaw grew to more than Platonic and i do think he made this known, or even made Advances which she Rejected and Felt Shocked and Scared about... this could give her Reasons to distance herself.. and it could be seen by David as Rejection and he may have viewed her as just as the other Humans he encountered when he FELT she was DIFFERENT this is what i think happened there.

Fassbender said there relationship was like Marriage, i think this is how David viewed it.

Another Clue to consider, which may not be taken as 100% Fact.. well we cant 100% use it to apply to what 100% Happened... is when discussing some Concept Work the Concept Artist including Wayne Haagg had said the Juggernaught and Mother Docking Ship had a Dust Up..

So the Mothership had attempted to Prevent David from doing more Damage and the Result of this Conflict likely leads to both Ships CRASHING... which the Mothership in some Shots can clearly be seen has crashed also.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPJul-07-2017 4:45 PM

So i think its likely Shaw was awoken after the Crash, and David had informed her that the Engineers did not welcome them and attempted to attack... which resulted in both ships crashing but David managed to release the Bio-Weapon as he knew at this point... these beings would be Hostile.

He would then likely told her he found out more about their ways during the journey, and having arrived to Paradise and not being Welcomed he had no choice but to do this and Protect Dr Shaw.... and not to worry as the Black Goo would likely take them all out and once the infection has surpassed he could go through their records and get her SOME Answers and that SOME Answers and Living was better than NOT getting them and dying.

This is what i ASSUME she would have found out... and its certainly the route i would take at least, if i was to work on a Prequel Story leading to and after those events (arriving and Bombardment)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

VivisectedEngineer

ChestbursterMember725 XPJul-07-2017 5:46 PM

@BigDave

"If we consider the Crossing though, then her Hair Growth is Long and a Human Female would need 6-12 Months to Grow that Hair.  So we can make from this that Dr Shaw had at very least waited a fair few months before she felt confident to Put David back together again."

 

Good observation, I'm really enjoying your level of detective work here.

 

I'm also really enjoying picturing David living as a decapitated head for six to twelve months as he earned Shaw's trust, because that is freaking hilarious. Must have been damned frustrating for a busy-bee like him.

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPJul-07-2017 6:01 PM

I think that was the case.... we have to look at it from Shaws Point of View... 

My Prometheus 2 did not touch upon how Shaw put David back together, like the Crossing, it just left it open to debate but showed he has Marks to show he was Stitched together so to speak.  A reason i skipped this was because of how long it would take and where did she get the Tools, and then considering the Deacon was on the loose... i had it that they did not spend long on LV-223.. But my draft idea only covered David and Shaw for like 20% tops.

So i think the way they went with the Crossing opens the same kind of Questions i avoided and left to ambiguity a bit... I think the clues are that Dr Shaw had salvaged the Wreckage of the Prometheus.... i dont think she would be so foolish to go back to the Life-boat.. but then i think thats a posibility she would have to have taken.. unless we assume she obtained a lot from the other wreckage in Good Condition.

So the Question with the crossing is... how come they did not.. or did they.. come into contact with  the Deacon?

My reason for avoiding this and not showing was indeed to not have to deal with this... this was to be left for a 3rd Movie in my idea where Yutani come to LV-223 and discover the Deacon.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

VivisectedEngineer

ChestbursterMember725 XPJul-07-2017 6:27 PM

@BigDave

Do you think while David was a  decapitated head he gave Shaw instructions on how to operate the Engineer ship?

 

Giving instruction for such a complicated task without being able to use any gestures sounds like some hellish team-building excersize, lol.

Leeta

OvomorphMember43 XPJul-08-2017 3:31 AM

I'm also really enjoying picturing David living as a decapitated head for six to twelve months as he earned Shaw's trust, because that is freaking hilarious. Must have been damned frustrating for a busy-bee like him.

 

I have to admit that what I wanted to see for Prometheus 2 was something similar to Lexx, a Sci fi show about a decapitated robot who is madly in  love with his female master. She carries his head around on their adventures. :) 

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJul-08-2017 3:59 AM

as david says 'red to red, blue to blue, its supposed to be simple', I think we can safely ascertain david is talking shaw through the process as there is no logical reason shaw would already have the knowledge to put a synthetic back together on her own. as for tools, perhaps david has basic tools on him incase of field repairs he may need to carry out on himself?

VivisectedEngineer

ChestbursterMember725 XPJul-08-2017 8:10 AM

@Leeta

That's awesome, someone should turn it into a web-comic. It can be like an alternate universe version of David and Shaw's story. 

@ali81

It's "Green to green, red to red it's meant to be simple", get it together man! Jk Jk.

"perhaps david has basic tools on him incase of field repairs he may need to carry out on himself?"

Perhaps David carries a bunch of medical instruments around with him in case he wants to dissect somebody? Maybe he carries them around in the same utility belt where he hid Shaw's necklace.

DG

OvomorphMember78 XPJul-08-2017 9:52 PM

@BigDave I am utterly fascinated by your analysis of this huge chunk of missing story. I would love to read that script you wrote!

Cerulean Blue

FacehuggerMember446 XPJul-11-2017 10:46 AM

@Big Dave - Once again, thank you very much for your insight to this post!

Gralen

FacehuggerMember139 XPJul-11-2017 1:19 PM

Last scene in The Crossing was Dr.Shaw entering the hypersleep chamber.

She likely remained in that state some months or even years after the black goo bombing so the air of the planet is less contaminated with the released pathogen.

If she was awake before, then the black goo would desintegrate the flesh like the local species on planet 4.

Keep in mind the Juggernaut crashed right after the bombing after a collision/fight with the scorpion-docking platform, so the pathogen would enter the ship and contaminate the air.

When you look at her body it's in a flawless state. Could be a fresh kill ,relatively time -wise.

I mean, Dr.Shaw probably was alive when the Covenant crew received the emergency signal.

Just imagine the situation from her perspective. Living on a dead planet with a psycho android in limited space (for years?), because if she would go outside the spores would infect/kill her.

 

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