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Egg Morph Scene - Not What It Seems

Egg Morph Scene - Not What It Seems

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cuponator3000

Member838 XPJul-05-2017 6:05 PM

This famous scene, albeit it deleted in the original theatrical version of Alien, has been the catalyst of many debates about the Alien franchise. I stumbled upon this video a while back and the gentleman in it has something very different to say about this scene. The whole video is pretty cool, but the bit about egg morphing starts at 2:40 (although my link should jump right to that.) 

This isn't the Alien morphing Brett and/or Dallas into eggs, but they are food for already laid eggs.

I have to log off at the moment, so I need to keep this short. The gentleman puts up a couple of quotes from Ridley stating that the crew members in that area are just food. **Edit** One issue I thought of (and dk pointed out) is: There were no eggs on the Nostromo. At the very lest, we were not shown any. There is no footage of the Alien laying any eggs

So, go ahead and take a quick look at it and let me know what you guys think! Also, does anyone know of any direct quotes from Ridley or higher up creatives from that film that contrdict this?

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33 Responses to Egg Morph Scene - Not What It Seems

dk

Member8207 XPJul-05-2017 6:17 PM

Interesting and your video does jump to the scene in question.

My issue is that RS said they were food to be used for eggs already laid. That didn't happen on the Nostromo. The Alien didn't lay eggs on the ship and look for a food source in any cut of the movie.

 

cuponator3000

Member838 XPJul-05-2017 6:33 PM

Exactly, dk! I forgot to actually put that in the post (I'll edit it in a moment, actually), but I definitely thought about that. I mean, the question becomes: How would there be eggs? Does the Alien evolve, like, into a queen? Or wuold they be able to lay a couple of eggs in the warrior (or lurker or whatever they may be referred to as. That is lingo from Colonial Marines I belive) xenomorph state?

That scene is one of those confusing things about this franchise. Something that is basically canon, but there isn't the most concrete of explanations. I mean, those quotes might be pretty solid so I guess that is the answer. I don't know at this point, haha!

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dk

Member8207 XPJul-05-2017 6:38 PM

cuponator3000 You should not have to revamp your post. The guy in the video cited RS but his video, although interesting, seems flawed. We also know that RS is prone to changing his mind.

Personally, I will stick with the notion that Brett was becoming a facehugger and  the CPT was to be a host because..........that is exactly what it looked like.

cuponator3000

Member838 XPJul-05-2017 6:53 PM

It was something I forgot to put in earlier anyway :). I don't know though, that guy seems to have it together, actually. I mean, he is awfully frantic, but that's him trying to be funny (which I thinks it worked haha.) At the moment, I am not sure of any quotes from Ridley about the scene, in which he said it was morphing.

So, for now, I am thinking that egg morphing is just not a thing. I think this may come down to, "what's your personal canon," type of thing. I am not sure that this question really affects the Ridley directed portion of the Alien franchise. Since according to him, there was no eggmorphing occuring. Still, since us fans will always try to connect the films and work out kinks in the mythology of it all, so it matters to us I suppose. 

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Kethol

Member511 XPJul-05-2017 7:29 PM

Kind of the same thing either way, as the host is being used as raw material for the egg, but it seem the egg does not come first.

The Alien script implies they were being turned into eggs, and some of Giger's cocoon art show a body recently cocooned, but no egg yet.

dk

Member8207 XPJul-05-2017 7:31 PM

cuponator3000 I like the guy in the video and he does a good presentation. I just disagree with him on this issue.

I think most consider the director cut as an egg morph scene. HR Giger did work depicting it as well.

I agree that this will be an ongoing debate and also what is canonical- there are threads buried here dedicated to that singular issue.

cuponator3000

Member838 XPJul-05-2017 8:24 PM

Haha yeah, it is really tough at this point to organize all the issues actually come to a solid conclusion. Thus is the life of a fandom, I suppose. I love it though <3

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Kethol

Member511 XPJul-05-2017 8:49 PM

Way back in 1984 Ridley had this to say.

“What gave us the cocoon concept was that insects utilize others’ bodies to be the hosts of their eggs. That’s how the Alien would use Dallas and each of the crew members it kills. This explains why the Alien doesn’t kill everybody at once, but rather kills them off one by one: it wants to use each person as a separate host each time it has new eggs.”

In 2003 Ridley said Brett and Dallas were changing into eggs.

"They are morphing, metamorphosing…they are changing into, being consumed, I guess, by whatever the alien organism is, into an egg."

cuponator3000

Member838 XPJul-05-2017 8:55 PM

Okay, there it is Kathol! I just didn't know of Ridley specifically saying that they were morphing. So, he just got again with his misleading ways. He loves to say things, man. Just blurts some things out and it confuses me!

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cuponator3000

Member838 XPJul-05-2017 8:55 PM

Okay, there it is Kathol! I just didn't know of Ridley specifically saying that they were morphing. So, he just got again with his misleading ways. He loves to say things, man. Just blurts some things out and it confuses me!

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dk

Member8207 XPJul-05-2017 9:16 PM

RS changes his story, that is not new. I stand behind the egg morph theory.

Kethol

Member511 XPJul-05-2017 9:56 PM

Did he? I'm not sure he did, and, to be fair, it wasn't his story. He is trying to explain what someone else wrote and clearly did not understand it, based on his older comments.

dk

Member8207 XPJul-05-2017 10:27 PM

Kethol RS is the one looked to for explanations at the end of the day. It might not be fair, but that is how it seems to be.

cuponator3000

Member838 XPJul-05-2017 10:34 PM

No one else who is required to know these details (producers, writers, etc.) Has much of a presence in the media. Plus, Ridley is kind of the master of this Alien universe at this point. I think most of what is what should be what Ridley says, but if it isn't adding up I'll look to others to help explain. 

Once again though, the personal canon comes into play. I couldn't sit here and try to rip you guys apart for leaning either way in whether or not morphing was occuring or what morphing means to the queen and stuff. Haha just have to try and wrap my head around it as best I can if I'm not getting any factual, canonical explanations. At this point, I still consider it egg morphing. Just food doesn't make enough sense (at this point), nor is it as badass and freaky

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ali81

Member1823 XPJul-05-2017 11:43 PM

for me egg morphing is the intended way the xeno goes about producing the eggs. it was in o'bannons starbeast and was only left out due to the pacing of the movie at that particular stage. it doesn't disregard the queen though as a lot of the xenos' background is still unknown and open. iv often wondered if morphing is the method used until either a queen is produced or there is a large enough number of drones/ warriors to protect her. it has been said the ovamorph/ egg is a lifeform itself. it may be able to sense when there is a large enough number of xenos about to protect a queen and at that point it somehow produces or gives the existing facehugger the required nutrients to enable it to lay a queen inside a host. once a queen has been born there would be no need for the xenos to exert so much energy on morphing and can direct their energy on protecting and gathering hosts. if the queen is killed then the xenos could revert back to morphing to repopulate the hive until a new queen was born. makes then harder to kill as even if just one survives the whole process can begin again

BigDave

Member9759 XPJul-06-2017 7:18 AM

This raises a few interesting points.. i have never came across those RS quotes from 1979 only the latter ones like the 1984 one, which was a bit ambiguous as could mean FOOD for Eggs but i always never considered it as such... and since first reading Star Beast this clearly shows the Original Idea would have indeed been to have the Organism use a Hosts Body to Morph it into a Egg.

so again we have evidence here of RS changing his mind as he goes along... it would seem they tried to do a Star Beast Egg Morph, and shot the scenes..... but then after Alien came out RS had made comments alluding to the Hosts being required for some Genetic Process/Food so the Eggs can grow/evolve.  Maybe these comments came from the actual concepts and shot scene where Brett does look like he is being consumed by the Egg, its as if the Egg grew first and Bret was slowly being consumed by it.

I think the way this looked ^^^^^ promoted RS to make those remarks in 1979, but then latter RS changed his mind to indicate it was indeed a EGG MORPH

I think we always have to go with the Movie Canon and RS latest explanations as the route they are taking currently and so his last comments were it is a Transforming of a Host into a Egg.

With Alien Covenant out of the way and 1-2 more Prequels that lead to Alien  potentially on the way, i do wonder if these will answer how the Eggs could come to be or show us to the FULL Alien Life Cycle as envisioned by what Ridley Scott wants to do/show with it.

The Video does give a good point as far as how this could work if they back up the Eggs being laid would come to be, the Alien only ever captured TWO Hosts.... and i was always drawn to the Brett Egg and Dallas to become the Host for what ever will grow inside that Egg.

If we assume the Xenomorph in Alien created a Egg but it needed Brett in order to take Nutrients and maybe Genetic Material from before it could Gestate a Face Hugger or other Organism inside (i think would be a Face Hugger) then i still think this Process would fit if this route was to lead to a Queen.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

cuponator3000

Member838 XPJul-06-2017 4:46 PM

Agreed, BigDave, I think it make sense that we take what Ridley says most recently as canon and what not. Just a tough to sea to navigate with al lthe change!

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BigDave

Member9759 XPJul-07-2017 4:10 AM

Well i think its a case of will we eventually find out not only the Origins but also how much information we have on how the Organism Procreates...  

But then its a case of how much will they leave a Mystery and keep Ambigious.

I think once RS has completed his Prequels to Alien then we could see a reference book released that will give us a Final Complete Study of the XX121 Xenomorph and the Black Goo maybe too.

I always say that Movies are the Ultimate Canon, and so as for now we have a Queen, but we dont know how a Queen would come to be.  And we have no Egg Morph but thats not to say we cant rule it out or if this leads to a Queen which would make sense.

The Question will be what RS chooses to show, as David only has TWO Face Huggers and so will end up with TWO Xenomorphs and if RS is going the route that David is responsible for the Eggs on the Derelict then RS will have to address this part of the Xenomorph Life Cycle in how can one of these Organisms lead to more EGGS

So i think we should have  a clearer route shown to us when RS completes his Prequels... the Question then is what are his plans next as surely it wont need 5-6 Prequels to Alien and so we have to wonder will he be doing sequels to Alien and how would these effect ALIENS as Canon?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Starlogger

Member907 XPJul-07-2017 6:32 AM

@cuponator

"I am thinking that egg morphing is just not a thing"

BINGO!

We spend a lot of time talking on this forum about this "thing" which doesn't exist. While fun to talk about, it just isn't in "this" universe.

cuponator3000

Member838 XPJul-07-2017 8:18 AM

Lol, I feel you, Starlogger, although now I just don't know, personally! I've changed my in this thread twice already, so current opinion is that I know.

Plus, it's tough for me to argue against what Ridley has most recently said. Still, that means the Alien franchise functions fine without egg morphing, so it might not keep me up at night. 

BigDave makes a good point, that whether or not the eggmorph exists, may be revealed soon after this prequel series is finished. While it is jumbled at this point, Fox is usually good about the details and offshoots (books and what not) about the Alien Franchise.

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BigDave

Member9759 XPJul-07-2017 9:53 AM

My Two Cents its this...

The Xenomorphs do secret a resin or some other form of matter in order to Produce a Hive, well the Material that Builds them and Cocoons Hosts and this stuff is clearly seen in the Alien Egg Morph Scene.

This Material they use for not only sticking Hosts to, but it must also have some effect on the Xenomorph Hive, i will assume the Material has certain pheromones etc related to it.

I think maybe when a Hive is set up and/or a bunch of Eggs, these both contain something in their Genetic Makeup that gives off some kind of signal that determines what kind of Xenomorph Gestates.   

Being away from a Hive/Eggs the Organism Gestating will not detect these signals from other Eggs and Hive... and maybe they will gestate into a Drone that has a purpose to start to create a Hive, well create the Material a Hive is made from, and then capture Hosts.... One Host in some way is used for Egg creation be it Morphed or its Genetic Material has to be consumed by what is the starting point for the Eggs.

This Process leads to a Queen who then needs more Hosts to set up more Drones, that then build a Hive/Nest and once the Hive Nest is set up it sets off Pheromones or other Signals with the Queen also giving off some... that then will determine the Chest Busters to become Warriors instead.

Thats how i interpret the whole Life Cycle, and Hive Creation which includes the Egg Morph and Drone/Warrior.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Kethol

Member511 XPJul-10-2017 5:37 PM

It looks like there was a cocoon scene planned in Covenant at one point. This is concept art MPC came up with for the movie.

The xeno was going to be shown cocooning someone.

cuponator3000

Member838 XPJul-10-2017 5:42 PM

Interesting, Kethol! Could have been pretty gross to see. Good lord. But this one of several concepts in this franchise that are ALWAYS introduced and reintroduced, yet still passed over for the final version. 

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I.Raptus

Staff2414 XPJul-10-2017 5:51 PM

wow! That's nasty Kethol lol.. and slightly disturbing

Kethol

Member511 XPJul-10-2017 7:45 PM

The crotch blast is definitely disturbing. They also looked at a puke blast and spidey blast :)

auximenes

Member137 XPJul-10-2017 9:08 PM

Nasty.

ali81

Member1823 XPJul-10-2017 10:33 PM

whether egg morphing is or isn't a thing is irrelevant. it was in the original star beast and alien scripts and was shot, only left out due to the pace of the movie. true that the queen was shown on screen prior to the directors cut of alien being released but that isn't an issue, theres no reason both cant exist in the alien universe. plus morphing is a real life natural process that exists today on our own planet so not that far fetched

Wmmvrrvrrmm

Member6 XPMar-20-2021 2:56 PM

Here we are few years later now! Hopefully I am making myself clear here:


In the film, it would be seen as a sort of metamorphosis as it looks as if the human victims are somehow transforming.  Or one could just go back to the original idea in the script of the cocoon transforming into a spore, which makes the spore almost like a chrysalis.

It wasn't as if Ridley would be that specific about what was going on but the alien beast is supposed to be an alien life form rather than just exactly a humanoid oversized insect, He went with the idea of showing human bodies being eaten away alive by the cocoon material putting Dallas in a state of agony, as the spore shell grew around the humans' remains and so this would result in the alien young devoured the humans from within their shells. I don't know what exactly what these alien young were and how they were created. We do see maggots crawling over Brett's body and sludge moving over his head, so something of that might as well have been the alien young.

Then online people created this 'Eggmorphing' term, perhaps it goes back as far as 2007 online, (I probably get it confused with 'EggMcMuffin')  it wasn't used in the old Usenet newsgroup and it seemed to have more to do with people who were who were Aliens fans saying how ridiculous the idea was, basing their idea on what James Cameron erroneously thought in an interview about the "human to egg" stage was all about the alien beast having "biological properties take up residence in a human being and change it" rather than slowly consume it. I suppose that no one was really that bothered about what Ridley was thinking anyway but I did what I could to collect the information about Ridley's idea together hoping that others might generally develop a clue.

See: Alien: Human To Spore

See: Aliens: Replacing the human to spore stage with the alien queen

S.M

Member1234 XPMar-21-2021 6:08 PM

I wrote a piece back in 2003 - I think for Absolute AvP - that used the term 'egg morphing'.  And I think it'd been around for a little while at that point.  The Anchorpoint Essays might have used the term prior to that as well.

BigDave

Member9759 XPMar-30-2021 6:07 AM

I think the Egg Morph could be something that could have been Explored in Future... i wonder HAD we seen Ridley Scott be able to Continue with the Franchise would he have INTRODUCED the Egg Morph?

If the Egg Morph gets explored more then they could CHANGE its Purpose....

The Xenomorph would be Pretty Flawed if in ALIEN what we saw was going to become TWO EGGS... but i GUESS this adds a Weakness to the Organism.. and if we go back to Starbeast then its THIS Need for Hosts that had become a Downfall for their Species if they Egg Morph all Life then they would RUN OUT of any Hosts.

But its always NICE to give a Monster a Flaw/Weakness.

I had always looked at the Scene as Creating a Egg Morph and then using Dallas as a Host... but the FLAW i have with this would be WHY does the Xenomorph not do the same with Parker and Lambert as then it would have TWO MORE of its kind to Join it...

I recall that RS had said that he felt the Xenomorph in the Narcissus was trying to HIDE away to DIE as it had Performed its Task (Egg Morph) to me this would make SENSE if the Egg Morph would lead to a ROYAL FACE HUGGER... so that Dallas would have Gestated a Queen.

I guess the Egg Morph could be Explored in Future and changed somewhat.... for me as a Evolutionary Stand Point.. it would make more Sense if the Egg Morph would lead to a Metamorphosis into another Xenomorph or similar and thus REMOVE the Face Hugger from this LINK in the Chain of Procreation... but you still have someway to Obtain a Queen that can LAY more Eggs.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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