David and Holloway and Shaw?4,640 Views22 RepliesAdd A Reply
Did David infect Holloway of his own volition, or was he under instruction from Weyland to do so to crew members where there was a known relationship?
This might suggest Weyland knew more about what was on LV-223 than was let on. Recall the original script had Weyland acknowledge that he already knew what Shaw and Holloway were concluding. So did he only agree to their joining the expedition, not because he was being generous because of their 'apparent' discovery of the starmap, but he saw them as fodder for the alien as opposed to using his own staff?
I don't think so, but it's just my opinion.
How could Weyland know, what's up on LV 223? He wanted to be God, and needed the help of the Engineers for this. He wanted to meet his creator, and hoped, he also can be a god, because hé made the same thing, what gods do.
David examined the black goo, and reported this to the sleeping Weyland. Hé also reported about the Engineer's head. Weyland said: it's not enough. So that was an order for David to do something more.
After this David infected Holloway. Actually David doesn't like Holloway, if we can talk about "like" at this point. (David develops the feelings, I'm sure, he felt something dislike against Holloway this time. He also started to like Shaw, and maybe it strenghtend this dislike feeling. A lot of times Holloway quarells with Shaw, even shout at her. And maybe David was a bit jealous too, but I'm not sure, hé knew his feelings or understands them at this time. Later, in AC he realises, these are feelings, but in the Prometheus he emphasised, he doesn't know the feelings like for example "fear".)
Só David doesn't like Holloway, so it seemed a good choise tó infect him. I think he didn't want to infect Shaw, it's just happened. Hé also hints at one point, hé didn't know, it's ín her. What? The embryo or the strengh, the survival skills? Hé corrected this sentence anyways later. He was a bit rough with Shaw after this. Why? As I wrote that before, he is developing his feelings, I think, hé didn't know, what's going on in his syntetic mind, at least firstly hé didn't understand it. Hé was a bit childish, but because he doesn't have limits, he was also very dangerous.
So.. I don't think, it was Weyland's plan to infect them.
David, as a highly sentinent android, is an opportunist with no apparent moral conscience or boundaries.
Remember, in Prometheus, he asked Holloway how far he was willing to go to get answers. Holloway essentially gave David the green-light to "experiment" on him.
At least in David's mind, he did...
David was programmed by humans.
There isn't a human living(or lived)that I would use as a 'model' for a robot...Not Gandhi nor Mother Theresa....deep down some flaw would manifest.
We are a million years away from programming decent synths/AI.
"Did David infect Holloway of his own volition, or was he under instruction from Weyland to do so to crew members where there was a known relationship?"
Completely under Weyland's instruction. Everything he was doing was to serve Peter Weyland, and Weyland did not care what happened to the crew, as long as he got answers his goal were achieved. Weyland wanted more life. He wanted to meet his maker and ask for it, or exploit their creation technology to get it.
Remember when David was talking to Weyland in cryosleep, right after the explody head scene? He was saying, "No sir. I will take care of it...Yes sir, understood. I'm sorry....Fortunately, slighty premature...(very long pause)..of course sir." Remember Vicker's nasty confrontation with David immediately after, when she presses him to reveal what Weyland's instructions were? He simply said "try harder".
The very next thing David does is break open one of the Engineer vials of the black pathogen and infect Holloway with it to see what it would do.
David did at least have the courtesy to ask Holloway first if it was OK, in a manner of speaking :)
Weyland did have Holloway & Shaw sign an agreement that any AI Tech would be property of Weyland Industries, so Weyland is then free to us his property any way he chooses, even on the crew!
Kethol got it right. The Weyland Dynasty, and other elites, have likely been planning this since the dawn of civilization. The Engineers are shown to have visited ancient humanity. Ancient humanity inherited their culture in many ways and worshiped them as gods. But, I bet the Engineers - or a faction of Engineers - were acting merely as messengers, and did not create the weapon that David infects Holloway with. Perhaps it is not a weapon, but an entity. David implies as much when he says its effects are random. But, what if they're not? I think David is a red-herring, to be honest, and the Accelerant is the true creator, not just of the Xenomorphs and Engineers, either, but humanity as well.
@Cerulean Blue: Where was it revealed Weyland specifically had Holloway and Shaw sign an agreement about AI tech being property of WI?
@IndyFront: Interesting suggestion;)
@Nathan Adler - Check out Ingeniero's post regarding Project Genesis & Dr. Shaw from 17JUNE2017. I recall it coming from the Starbeast script?
I think that was in the Alien: Engineers script. It's not in Prometheus or the Prometheus script.
@Kethol - Yea, it was the 'Mars' meeting they had with Weyland to ask for him to fund the mission. I doubt Weyland was funding anything, unless he benefitted in the largest way? I will see what I can find in the 'Project Genesis' files?
Yes, there is also mention of shared technology in the Project Genesis email to Weyland called:
Project Genesis Update 7:32am October 28th, 2079.
@Cerulean Blue: Where are details of this "Project Genesis" email? Do you have a link to where it is originally (as opposed to just mentioned on the forum)?
It is, though, interesting that it is referred to as "Genesis" given that is the book of the Bible where the Watchers/ Sons of God were revealed to have lain with the Daughters of Men to engender the Nephilim!
Project Genesis - click the download link on the page
@Nathan Adler - Before the release of Prometheus FOX created a Weyland Industries website. Project Genesis is still listed as Classified, but Ingeniero found countless do***ents to post! You can browse around on Weylandindustries.com when you have time? It is really cool! There used to be skills games to become a team member & it would reveal more as you progressed.
Or just click on the link Kethol posted for you as I was rambling along! HAHA!
I don't think I have the space available for Adobe.
I wouldn't be surprised if a combination of both were at play.
i.e., Weyland gave David the instruction "Infect somebody with it" and David chose Holloway.
David was seething with resentment towards Holloway (which paralleled his fixation with Shaw) throughout the entire film. Holloway's constant snark towards David certainly didn't help the situation.
So, if David was given the instruction and a little autonomy to choose, I think Holloway would have been at the top of his list.
Well its pretty much a open debate.... we simply do-not get to see what Weyland had said to David... all he had passed onto Vickers when she asked David was that Weyland had said TRY HARDER.
We need to consider these ELEMENTS
*Weyland is dying he sees this mission as the last chance he can have of gaining more life. He wanted to believe Dr Shaw and Holloway are correct so he can maybe meet our Makers and if they Made us, they can maybe Cure Weyland of his inevitable Death.
*Upon arriving at LV-223 all the Crew find is this Complex that these Engineers had been experimenting with the Urns, and all the Engineers appeared Dead. How much David knows depends on what he can interpret from the Engineer Writings he had found.
*Up to this point DAVID had only witnessed these Urns/Vases that had started to be effected by the Atmospheric Changes and started to leak out a Organic Substance
It is thus Likely... David reports to Weyland and first thing Weyland would want to know is....
Did they find any Beings who had left those Star Maps?
Davids reply would likely had been YES but they are all dead, we dont know if Weylands asked why, and if so even if David could provide Answers.
so then its Likely that Weyland would ask..
So what have you found this in this place? Anything that may Help me?
David would then inform Weyland they discovered the Urns that contained Organic Material.. but he had not yet worked out what this does.
Weyland would then Logically ask him to TRY HARDER maybe not word for word, but he would want David to make more attempts to find out what this stuff is and if it can help Weyland with his Agenda...
David then goes to the Freezer and Studies the Urn he then realizes that Holloway would be disappointed he never got his Answers, because those Engineers are All Dead... so both Dr Shaw/Holloways hopes and Weylands are both Dead...
The only thing that remained was those URNS.... which David may not 100% know what they are for at this point... he knows they contain Genetic Material... and so he proposed to Holloway what he would do to get his Answers... and Once Holloway had said Anything and Everything... David then took that as Permission to indeed do anything and everything.
So i dont think there was any other motives.... The only thing that they had found was Dead Engineers, and these Urns containing the Genetic Black Goo which David did not know what it would do.
so Weyland wanted answers, Holloway disappointed he could not get his Answers and would be willing to do ANYTHING to get them.... Warranted David to Proceed to Spike his Drink with the Black Goo. Well One Component of it.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I will add that after opening the Urn.... David had some of the Goo on his Finger and his Objective was to see how this stuff reacts with a Human being.
So he was then off to find a would be Volunteer so to speak, or at least then infect some body... in which case we have to assume his Obedience to Weyland is priority compared to how expendable the crew is... Hence with Weyland Dead latter.. David is now Free.
So when he encounters Holloway, after their conversation.. and seeing how Holloway treated David and then basically said he would do Anything and Everything.
This basically saved David having to find someone else to Test this stuff on, and also took Holloways Answers as basically Permission to test the Contents of those Urns.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
@BigDave: David, if working off the orders of Weyland, would have considered Holloway and Shaw as more expendable because they weren't crew members of the Prometheus as much as invitees being hosted on the trip.
Another question this raises is why did the Engineer bother going so ape-**** against the Prometheus crew in the Juggernaut's ****pit? That is, if he was incensed by Weyland asking for eternal life, why not be all kind and nice and offer him some black goo and then start laughing?
Big Dave, that is interesting. With that in mind, there is nothing to suggest that for any reason David would cease being loyal to Weyland after his death. Even the opening sequence of A:C alludes to Weyland and TPTB are pulling his strings.