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Explain me again why people think there's a classic xeno in the mural

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awakened

OvomorphMember21 XPJun-14-2017 7:24 PM

Maybe I'm missing something.

I see this misconception over and over, and now (after Covenant) it is used to cast a doubt on David creating the first xenomorph.

The creature in the mural to me is just an "Archeomorph". The way I see it (warning: no sources, completely made up), billions of years ago the Engineers come in contact with the Archeomorphs, extracted black goo from them, learned how to genetically engineer the goo into innocuous in vitro glands (the ones stored in the urns), gained life-seeding capabilities from the goo and created a religious cult around the whole thing (complete with sacred imagery of Archeomorphs and the giant heads of the first brave Engineers "crusaders/saints/prophets" able to harvest the goo from the Archeos).

But back to the point: there are NO definitive exterior features (what's with the shape of that head? that looks like a classic xeno more than a proto/neo/deacon to you?) that pin down the creature in the mural to being the same classic xeno created by David "God Destroyer of the Galaxy". (which itself as we know still ought to become a bit more biomechanical to actually match the classic movies but that's not the point)

I cringe every time people swear without any doubt there's a classic xeno in the mural and use it as proof of a time paradox or of David being just a copycat. 

Now that I'm at it, a couple of bonus misconceptions

- why the 2000 years old sleeping elite pilot-warrior-noble Engineer looking slightly different than the modern day plebs-Engineers from Paradise baffles people? And they immediately feel the need to come up with a theory that plebs-Engineers are just another goo-seeded race of creatures? Have you ever looked at the number of faces and sizes and colors the people on our own planet Earth come in? (the correct canonical representation would be a Chinese guy in our case, think about that..) With a 2000 years difference even more so? For a billion-years spanning race? Maybe the pilot grew up on a different planet? Maybe the original space jockey grew up on a planet with atmosphere/gravity/nutrients that make Engineers grow bigger than the average Engineer? (I'm considering a given the fact that Paradise is not the only planet or even the home/original planet the Engineers live on)

- about the Space Jockey being too old (fossilized) to be killed by the David-xeno just 20 years before the original Alien: again, like the mural, there's nothing pinning the chest-bursting creature that killed him to a David-xeno, we've seen proto/neo/deacons bursting from a number of places, not sure why the goo couldn't randomly create a neomorph with chest bursting capabilities that killed the SJ ages ago, then in modern day David seeds LV-426 with his xenos and the derelict is a good place to set up a trap. (I may be contradicted by events in Awakening of course)

So, to recap, the alien in the mural is not a David-ultimate-classic-xeno (the biological original or its biomechanical eventual evolution) and has a weird head. And I call it an "Archeomorph".  

18 Responses to Explain me again why people think there's a classic xeno in the mural

joylitt

NeomorphMember1541 XPJun-14-2017 7:36 PM

Ripleys_Ghost

FacehuggerMember210 XPJun-14-2017 7:56 PM

All this is just Sir Ridley changing his mind about the direction of the story between films.  Also, in interviews, he'll say one thing, and then later on he'll contradict what he said.

It's as if each film after Aliens existed in its own universe/timeline.

awakened

OvomorphMember21 XPJun-14-2017 7:57 PM

All could still be explained with the black goo randomly creating those similar-but-not-exactly-the-same biological features over billions of years. 

Or maybe those life cycle stages are a staple of "goo-morphs" dating back to the Archeos.

Still we have no definitive proof of it being exactly the David-"perfect_organism"-xeno. 

Then again it would be fun to see the last Engineers in the galaxy (after God-David unleashed xenos from the Covenant to every inhabitated planet) at the end of the next movie running away on a time traveling ship to ages ago and accidentally bringing back a David-xeno. 

I.Raptus

PraetorianStaff2414 XPJun-14-2017 8:46 PM

awakened curious, where did the information about Archeomorph and ancient engineers you discussed come from
?

Starlogger

ChestbursterMember907 XPJun-14-2017 8:50 PM

Troll alert

joylitt

NeomorphMember1541 XPJun-14-2017 9:06 PM

awakened I finally find the first single person who actually is 100% sold on the brilliant, thrilling, mind blowing (and of course inapprehensible for the simple minded) revelation that David is the creator of the xenomorph.

Ati

PraetorianMember3378 XPJun-14-2017 10:00 PM

awakened, good points...

As for now, there is a high probability that the creator of the 1979 Alien monster is/will be David.

If I'm not mistaken, awakened does not claim that David is the only creator of the monsters, recreation can be added to his theory.

Plus, we shouldn't take that mural so seriously, they said they had just put there...

According to Ridley, the Derelict was part of a fleet, and the two alien ships are from the same factory, with max. 100 years difference between them...

Of course, he can change his mind again...

awakened

OvomorphMember21 XPJun-14-2017 10:23 PM

@IRaptus

I made it up, as a possible explanation of the religious cult and imagery. 

I'll edit the first post to reflect it better.

awakened

OvomorphMember21 XPJun-14-2017 10:30 PM

@Starlogger

Hope you're not one of those that just wanted to see Alien/Aliens again and again and again with this new 2012-trilogy...

I'm fine with witnessing the birth of a God to the tune of Wagner instead.

I.Raptus

PraetorianStaff2414 XPJun-15-2017 12:31 AM

awakened thats cool, i like that term Archeomorph. You have some vivid idea's, have you written them as a script or a novel or anything? There are some great concepts to explore

awakened

OvomorphMember21 XPJun-15-2017 2:58 AM

@IRaptus

Nothing more than what's written here, I'd be glad if the term "Archeomorph" sticked though :) 

Another idea I have about that mithology is that the "goo" (and consequent "goomorphs" like the Archeos, Neos, etc.) is an inevitable "biological singularity" that keeps happening again and again in parts of the universe where life has arisen, as the invitable product of an "infinite" (very long) time of evolution and refinement of the biological macromolecules (I don't want to limit them to just DNA, even something beyond DNA). One could argue that even in the event of a space cataclism in a sector, some of the macromolecules would still be scattered around, survive radiations/cold/vacuum of space and "pansperm" their way to other planets, so even then not all the evolutionary work is lost. And eventually (after millions of years) the final inevitable stage of evolution through every kind of harsh enviroment is the all-consuming black goo. (I said "all"-consuming but I'm a bit disappointed that in the movies it seems to be limited to animal cells). 

Space faring civilizations that travel far enough to reach a region of space that is currently in a "goo phase" can either be consumed by the goo or harness it as a weapon (to reset animal life on a target planet, or to eradicate enemy civilizations) or viceversa as a "panspermia" life seeding device (as in the sacrifice rite) . 

Humans in the original movies almost got consumed by the goo/goomorphs but Ripley managed to stop its spreading with her sacrifice in Alien3. That was reverted in Resurrection but at least after the events of the movie she is the only goo-carrier left in that sector of space. If she is responsible and empathic  towards humans (or even just out of spite for Weiland-Yutani) she will instruct Call to thouroughly destroy her body.

The Engineers on the other hand managed to harness the goo billions of years ago, became life-seeding "gods" and their "Gooism" religion was born (we shouldn't necessarily apply our idea of religion to alien civilizations, "Gooism" may simply consist in the carrying over of the secret for life-seeding and invincible military power, not an actual belief in something supernatural). 

Bottomline is the goo is a naturally occurring cyclical phenomenon in the universe and people shouldn't worry too much about apparently anachronistic depiction of goomorphs, like in the mural. On the other hand the goomorphs being a recurring natural phenomenon in the history of the universe doesn't diminish the uniqueness of what David was trying to achieve (perfecting the goomorphs from direct-contact local phenomenon in a given sector/galaxy to an unstoppable universe-wide self replicating race) during his reign as a God.

Nathan Adler

FacehuggerMember178 XPJun-15-2017 4:01 AM

@Ati: Do you have a link for where Ridley mentioned “the Derelict was part of a fleet, and the two alien ships are from the same factory”?

@awakened: Is "Gooism" like a Grooism;)

Kethol

ChestbursterMember511 XPJun-15-2017 8:04 AM

Who is saying the creature in the mural is a classic xenomorph? It's just one version, or a very early version, of the basic creature that we have seen many later forms of - deacon, neomorph, xenomorph, dog alien from Alien 3, et cetera.

The mural just indicates the Engineers already had the "DNA" for this thing in their black pathogen thousands of years ago. The versions we have seen are just due to the different DNA of the host the creature is birthed from. David was breeding his own versions in Covenant using Engineers and Shaw.

awakened

OvomorphMember21 XPJun-15-2017 8:11 AM

@Kethol

A good amount of people tried to use the mural to disprove that David is the Creator of the classic Xenomorph. Or to imply there's a continuity error between Prometheus and Covenant. It's all over the internet and youtube theories, not sure about this particular forum.

Kethol

ChestbursterMember511 XPJun-15-2017 8:54 AM

That's just semantics though. David is no more of a "creator" than a dog breeder who creates a new breed is.

He may have bred this new breed, but he did not create the dog.

Ripleys_Ghost

FacehuggerMember210 XPJun-15-2017 1:14 PM

"David creates the xenomorphs".

Can't wait for that idea to get ****-canned.

Ati

PraetorianMember3378 XPJun-15-2017 5:23 PM

'Ati: Do you have a link for where Ridley mentioned “the Derelict was part of a fleet, and the two alien ships are from the same factory”?'

I put the info in a topic:

//www.alien-covenant.com/topic/45594

sherris

ChestbursterMember516 XPJun-16-2017 1:18 PM

Its all lost in the translations and terminology.

Calling a Xenomorph a Xenomorph. Well that only applies to Alien+ because this has a different rib cage, a hair is out of place, this one smiles, no that is the ulra Xeno! The Ultramorph? No the newest UltraUltraXenomorph part 2.63 is the real bio mech model we havent even seen its grand parents as of a:c so i dont know what you are talking about with that theory;)

Sorry but they ruined it with this. Fox dont think

its all too much to make any sense of :(

 

 

Take This.... This is the blood of our lord

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