Alien: Covenant

Is David the "good creator"?

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esther85

OvomorphMember59 XPJun-09-2017 1:01 PM

Hi folks! I'm new here, but I read you and this forum a pretty long ago. So I thought I join to this group, starting that with a question. Aaaand before I start to write down my thoughts about this topic: sorry for my English... :-) Hopefully you'll get, what I want to ask/talk about...

I was just wondering, how much David loves his creations. His feelings to the neomorph is pretty obvious for me (he communicates with the neomorph; or he is angry, when it's killed by Oram) . Also to the xenomorph: he teaches the first movements to it (him?), smiles at him. The last scene doesn't count, because he had to act, he is Walter. So he couldn't express any feelings at that time. But when he lie down the two facehugger embryos and uses a nursery rhymes... in my opinion in his mind they, the xenos and the neomorphs are his children, or at least something similar. So my question is: in this interpretation could he be a good creator?
He definitely loves his creations. We never saw this love neither from humans to him, nor from engineers to humans. What we just saw: humans ignore David or acting very unkindly  with him (except Shaw, I'm sure, he appreciated that). Engineers (however we dont know their reasons exactly) wanted to kill humans. And what  do we see from David? He loves his creations, telling them nursery rhymes, teaching movements... like a good father. That's why I started to think about - of course not from a human aspect, because he kills and uses humans, but - David is a good creator... I know, I know, there are a lot of narcism etc., but this nature of him could be interesting. I dont want to see David's character, as the absolutely baaaad villain. I really hope, there are some good point :D   

All this love thing also refers to the Nature boy song I think. I read your conversations about this song before, and I agree the things you wrote there. Just in this point of view this song could have another meaning: "The greatest thing, you'll ever learn/ 
Is just to love, and be loved in return". This is the key in the creation: the love. You must love your creations, you have responsibility for them, and then they (hopefully, who knows the end) will love you return. 

At this point I can imagine a story (but it's just a theory of course), that E. Shaw figured out, Engineers didn't love humans at all (for example the Engineers just used the mankind making "weapons", aka xenomorphs), and she realised, we (humans) also just use the robots, but not love them. So at this point Shaw and David see, what could love mean in the process of the creation, because they both couldnt experiance it. And in David's point of view maybe thats why they (Shaw and he) can be better gods...

So what do you think? Is this correct?

6 Responses to Is David the "good creator"?

Cerulean Blue

FacehuggerMember446 XPJun-09-2017 2:01 PM

Interesting thoughts, as Noomi did say she felt as though Dr. Shaw may have in fact made a turn towards the dark side?

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPJun-09-2017 4:31 PM

Very Good and Solid Point.. and Welcome ;)

Indeed David has viewed Mankind and has seen our ways, we can be cruel, arrogant we care little for other life, our planet and our creations... yet we are weak and feeble and in-superior compared to David 

David has seen the Engineers ways and how cruel they can be to their creations, and also again they are also Mortal and to a degree Feeble compared to how David views himself.

We have TWO Humanoid Races, who have a cruel look on their creations, who are trying to be as Gods, and yet they are Mortal...

David is in a way Immortal, so to speak and when he creates it does seem he appreciates his creations more than Weyland did with his and Engineers more then theirs.....  Davids creations are also not clouded by Morals, they do not Hate, they do not have any negative emotions.. they are Pure, they have basic Animal Instincts and so do not act out of wickedness and cruelty

He did view Shaw as different because how she treated him, and i feel that he started to have None-Platonic Feelings for her and advancements that shocked/scared her so she rejected him and this made him Hurt and Feel that she is no different to other Humans.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

esther85

OvomorphMember59 XPJun-09-2017 6:43 PM

#Cerulean Blue

Yes, I also watched that video. Somebody linked here. I think, it's also informative how the actors see their character... I accept that opinion from Noomi of course, but in my thoughts E. Shaw's character is stronger than that. But who knows. Here it's also interesting, how Fassbender talk about his character, David in interviews. He said: there's a bond between them (Shaw and David) /and they were living in a good marriage, or kind of this. And David loved Shaw. Noomi said: noooo, there is nothing between them/ and E. Shaw turned to the opposite side. Well... Dont know :)

 

#Big Dave

Thanks for your respond. We have similar opinion ín this question :). I'm just not sure about the "Elizabeth rejected David" story however you could be possibly right. Elizabeth still holds Holloway's ring (if i remember well, that big signet ring (??) belonged to Holloway), or she still took her table her and Holloway's picture. These mean for me, she is still fond of him, so she rejected David.

But on the other hand: if David is rejected or corrected, he started to be angry and ignorant. I'm not sure, if he was rejected by Shaw, he could talk about her in that way, that we saw ín the film. In that case he didnt care about her at all, couldnt say hé loved her, didnt made a tomb for her etc.

I also noticed, David never lies, every single word of him is true. Of course, when hé want to escape from a situation, he start to talk in a tricky style, what you can understand in this way and that way... maybe hé was programmed like this. It's important, because we never heard from him, he killed Shaw. Naaaaa, but nobody ask him the right question... :/ At one point of the film he said, everything started with a sting (I watched the movie in my native language, so im not sure, what he says exactly to Oram, when he start to explain, what is going on this planet). What if Elizabeth had an accident, a tiny sting from a mutated bug or anything and this was the beginning of David's experiments. But if the translation isnt correct, im still sure, he is too proud ;) if he was rejected, im sure, in that case he delete the "I loved Elizabeth" part of him and act with her just she is an object for his experiments.

But of course he also could kill her to make her a goddess, or an Eve/mother of a species. Because he loved her and wanted to save her some way. And he choosed this way... we dont know. Everything can be possible: your theory is also acceptable for me. :)

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPApr-23-2020 5:49 AM

@esther85

I am sorry for No Reply

I think we can only Speculate on Dr Shaw and David as far as their Relationship, Fassbender did say they had like a Married Relationship, that went Sour....  so they had a BOND but then things went BAD!

The Actual Draft for The Crossing (i think this was also included in one of the earlier Drafts for Covenant) as that Dr Shaw became Fond of David and they even GOT Intimate and Dr Shaw had Fallen for David... but then as they arrived at Paradise, then David awoke her and she watched as they arrived at Paradise in Wonder and Awe, and she spoke to David and then he just TORE her Head Off!

What i SUSPECT had happened is that David had learned a bit about the Engineers to know they would see Dr Shaw as Insignificant, they would likely NOT deem it Important to give her Answers and there is a GREAT risk that Dr Shaw could be KILLED without getting her Answers.

For David he is Sentient, he has Finally Found a Companion a Friend, he would be ALONE without her, and it seemed he maybe was FOND of her but this could be Purely for the Selfish Reason that David would NOT be alone...

David would also want to Safeguard himself and NOT risk having his HEAD TORN OFF!  And so he Decided that the Safest Option is to KILL the Engineers, and then he could go down and go through the Engineers Archives/Information and maybe he could GET her some Answers, or just Fabricate something to Dr Shaw.

But at least then he and Dr Shaw would be Alive, and ONCE our David has Explored the Engineers World and gained Information and Knowledge he may have wanted to DEPART but it seems he became Stranded.

I would ASSUME that after the Crash, that David had awoken Dr Shaw, gave some Excuse like the Engineers were a Threat and was about to Destroy them and he had NO CHOICE but to Bombard them.... and inform her that the Planet is not SAFE at Present and so SHE would have to remain on the Ship until the Infection has PASSED!

She likely would Believe him, and he would go off to try and get her Answers, and he was FREE to explore the Engineer City, and gain Knowledge and do as he Pleases.

What we see is that David had studied some Life-Forms, even Engineers and Experimented on them, so the Bombardment did-not KILL everything.... so if some Engineers Survived and other Life, then some places he could get CLEAN WATER and Food for Dr Shaw.

Eventually she would WONDER... how can David bring her Food and Drink thats not Infected if the Planet is NOT SAFE?

From HERE i would ASSUME one of THREE outcomes.

1) Curious one day she leaves the Ship and Wonders to the City and WALKS in on David and his Experiments....  he then tries to give her a Reason that he is doing this for HER so he can Find a Way so she can Create Life to then Start a New Eden together......She rejects this and

a) Tries to Escape but is Caught, and Experimented because he Takes the Rejection Bad and that she is Against Him!

b) or she is Badly Injured while trying to Escape and Dying and so David then Experiments with her to keep her Alive which Fails.. so he uses her for his Experiments.

c) She escapes to the Ship and tries to Barricade herself but David manages to Capture her and the Outcome is as a/b

2) She discovers some Horrors that David had been up to and she Flees back to the Ship, and David is unaware but then he becomes Suspicious when he Visits her, after Questions she is asking, or she tells him she knows what he has done.... in which case David then gives his Reasons as of Option 1 and Dr Shaw tries to again escape but suc***bs to a Fate as in Option 1a/1b.

3) As Dr Shaw leaves the Ship either after she Discovers what David has done and he Chases after her, or prior to getting into Davids hide out.... she becomes Infected with the Neomorph and David tries to SAVE her but Fails!

He then Decides he may as well use her for Experiments... especially if the Human Neomorph is different to the others he Encountered.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPApr-23-2020 6:02 AM

Regarding if he is  Good Creator...

I think he would Create for his Own Agenda... which would be to Create something more Perfect than his own Creators could and their Creators (Engineers).

Creating something for himself would make him feel he has achieved a kind of God-Hood.. i could see him Create some Hybrid Humans from the Embryo's and i think he would TREAT them well...

Provided they would see him as their Creator/God, and Obey his Rules, and Worship him, then he would Treat them Fair!

But if they go against his Rules, or Question him or he then Feels they could Rebel then he would NOT even Hesitate at Destroying Him!

It is my ASSUMPTION he would have Fooled and Used the Colonist to SET UP a World that then he can use them as HOST to Create his Xenomorphs that would be USED as a Weapon to Eradicate any Threats from other Worlds.

He would more so be Interested in then Engineering the Human Embryo's to make his Own Hybrids and claim to them he is their Creator, God and this World he Built for them to Inhabit...

All will be well, they will be looked after, they would Worship David as God/King and all would be Very Well

UNTIL..... those Hybrids discover they actually Descended from HUMANS and would be Human  if NOT for his Engineering of them... they discover that David is a Creation of their Parents (Humans) and then the $£%^ Hits the Fan...

Leaving David NO option but to Unleash the Xenomorphs!  From his Hybrids they could lead to a more Evolved Xenomorph.

When the Engineers discover Davids Xenomorph, and his Hybrid Humans they see Potential in a Amalgamation of them to Experiment with to EVOLVE us closer to the Xenomorph from ALIEN

This is what i Speculate in Part the Next Two Prequels would have Covered!

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

alienantic

OvomorphMember18 XPAug-25-2022 7:37 PM

This is such a good take! i never thought of him this way. :) i do see where you're coming from! i feel like you are certainly right, he is good in certain ways.

in my opinion, When he was first created, his only purpose was to serve the humans for.. who knows how long. In the end it was the humans fault for engineering him with that potential defect of him going rouge. (which, he obviously did in the end.) As well as evolving emotionally attached to the wrong things. However ill have to back this up as character, not AI as so far all evolutions we know of have character and personalities unlike most robots.

Im not the best at wording things, but basically, yes. yes he does have good aspects and i dont think its entirely his fault for loving the Xenomorphs as its in his design. he was tired, so tired. Corrupt and in need of new purpose after over half of his crew perished, with more on the way.

hopefully this makes some sort of sense, thank you! <3

 -Alienantic
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