Alien Movie Universe

Where we are at heading into the next instalment. (Some Novelisation content)

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EWATYAMORPH

MemberOvomorphJun-09-2017 5:01 AM

 

Ok, trying to get a quick grasp on exactly where we're at heading into the next instalment. Side note, I have used some info from the extended Prometheus scenes and the AC Novelisation.

From Prometheus onward.

There are Elder Engineers who seem to oversee the seeding of new life on worlds, choosing younger more perfect looking Engineers as the sacrifice, or perhaps these younger Engineers willingly offer themselves up for the task, viewing it as a great honour.
Both types dress in robes and seem peaceful.

On LV-223, which seems to be used as some sort of military outpost to safely store or cultivate the black Pathogen, there are Engineers who look identical to the Sacrificial Engineer but for their armour which seems to be more like a part of their body than an actual separate suit.

We find out throughout Prometheus that these Engineers were on a mission to cleanse Earth of humans around 2000 years before and the pathogen was a key element in our destruction. We also find out that the Engineers are familiar with the ALIEN like beings by way of a mural which depicts a morph of some sort and also facehuggers.

This proves the Engineers have had involvement with the process of ALIEN creation involving Eggs/facehuggers and some variant of ALIEN creature being the end result of this cycle. It is thought this is not the Xenomorph that we see later and know so well.

Chaos ensues on LV-223 with Shaw and David escaping on an Engineer ship stacked with ampules of the pathogen, allegedly heading for the homeworld of the Engineers.

Whether or not the world in Covenant is the official homeworld of the Engineers, we certainly see that David directed himself and Shaw to a dwelling of Engineers. These wear robes and seem to be a more peaceful sort akin to the Sacrificial Engineer we saw at the beginning of Prometheus.

I have personally theorised this is where the Sacrificial type Engineers dwell and are chosen from now and again as the sacrifice to seed new worlds.

David wiped out the population in probably a similar fashion to what the Engineers on LV-223 hoped to do to humans on Earth.

David stays to dwell on the planet to study and experiment.

It's revealed David was experimenting on Dr Shaw. David has also been using Engineers corpses and local fauna to experiment on, producing versions of creatures in the search for perfection.

David encounters an Egg which had an aggressive facehugger in it that he claims was a creation of the Engineers. He claims to have had to euthanise the creature due to its aggression. I am not of the opinion this was a Xenomorph Egg.

David tries to replicate this creation and has what he refers to as his own "successes". David manages to create Eggs which contain facehuggers.

Riding on the coat tails of the Engineers at first but wishing to catch up to or surpass their accomplishments, David strives for perfection and sets out to create what we all know well as, the Xenomorph.

David now has at his disposal a ship full of colonists, with what we can only assume is plans to wipe out any humans and Engineers he can find with the aid of his killing machine creation, having no respect left for either race.

Is this where we are at heading into the next movie yes?.

Obviously just a broad stroke of points there but basically is this where we're at?.

 

22 Replies

EWATYAMORPH

MemberOvomorphJun-09-2017 5:05 AM

Had a nightmare typing the title lol, had to edit it. 

EWATYAMORPH

MemberOvomorphJun-09-2017 5:28 AM

Yeah, what I think is possibly going to happen is the reintroduction of Engineers to the movies, major pissed off at the audacity of humans and their creation (David).

They resolve to wipe out humans on Earth once and for all and start Earth afresh, cleansed of us nuisance humans and see the Xeno Eggs as an effective and efficient way of doing so. 

Cue an Engineer suiting up and heading for Earth with the Xeno Cargo but putting down on LV-426 with bad chest pains. 

Im trying to figure other ways for it to happen but this seems most likely to me.

I genuinely can't see the Engineers, if there are any left, forgiving humans and David and forgetting that we were once worth wiping out. In the Engineers eyes, I think we are now a million more times worth wiping out now.

EWATYAMORPH

MemberOvomorphJun-09-2017 5:45 AM

A movie or movies like this with the inclusion of Engineers (military and peaceful), Eggs/facehuggers/Xenos, David, humans, the usual splatter of chaos and death, great visuals, good characters, a nice connect to the original ALIEN and a script that doesn't leave a ton of plot holes could actually win RS back a lot of fans who are considering that he may have lost his way.

Blackwinter-witch

MemberPraetorianJun-09-2017 6:12 AM

This franchise, these days, makes about as much coherent sense as a plate of overcooked spaghetti in the hands of a toddler.

I love this forum, and will give this franchise ONE chance with the next movie, but to be honest, I'm pretty much done following the franchise and am far more interested in the works of the assorted fanfiction writers found here in this forum.

Alien: Covenant was a trainwreck courtesy of FOX hiring 4 scriptwriters with mutually conflicting styles and among them only ONE has a decent body of work and even that is hit-and-miss.

The ONLY reason it's watchable is due to R. Scott making it work despite the raw sewage handed to him by those hacks under FOX's insistence.

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

EWATYAMORPH

MemberOvomorphJun-09-2017 6:32 AM

Blackwinter-witch

Would you be won back over by the reintroduction of vengeful Engineers perhaps? They go apeshit on David and take control of his creation and attempt to wipe out us humans who had the audacity to create David, thinking ourselves Gods, causing all sorts of chaos. 

Xenomorph and Engineer fights could be filmed brilliantly by RS I think. 

If he even throws in a bit more on the Engineers history then he could really please everybody, or near enough, as you can't please everybody, that's just life. 

Tiwaz

MemberChestbursterJun-09-2017 6:36 AM

The recent novels (Alien: Out of the Shadows/Sea of Sorrows, Rage War Trilogy) introduced a new race, mostly known as dog-aliens or Drukathi. 

Always wondered why since they already had the Mala'kak (Engineers). Moreover Tim Lebbon (Author of A:OotS, the "dog's" first appearance) said Fox didn't want him to go in the direction of the Engineers.

My ideas:

1.) The Engineers stole the "goo" (Prometheus » fire of the gods etc.)

2.) The "outbreak" on LV-223 was orchestrated by another race (Drukathi, they seem older and more advanced than the Eng. in the novels) to stop/prevent further use of the accelerant/xeno tech by the Engineers. The 426-derelict/Space Jockey was part of the intervention force but crashed/landed for obvious reasons.

3.) Having left some means of surveillance the Drukathi get wind of the Prometheus incident, investigate and thus start tracking/watching David. Maybe even using his madness to wipe out the Planet 4-Engineers (Prometheus » punishment). Leaving David marooned on Planet 4 could've been part of the plan assuming he'd die there.

4.) Having their plans failed by the arrival and departure of the Covenant the Drukathi now take a more direct approach. They try to get rid of David including the Covenant and its crew to erase all traces.

I'm not sure if all this would fit into one movie. But this would tidy up the mess we're in now.

In this regard Alien: Awakening could be a fitting title. Like the (Drukathi) Awakening.

But that's just my take.

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

EWATYAMORPH

MemberOvomorphJun-09-2017 7:36 AM

Tiwaz 

Have we had any indication RS will be inserting a new, older more technologically advanced race than the Engineers to the movies?, Any interview snippets that hint this? I'm curious. 

He would need a couple movies at least to properly introduce something completely new and do it justice.

If he is going to do this Id be worried it would be done like he did with the Engineers where he teases us with it, gets us interested, and then we are let down with the lack of real in depth exploration of them and their history. 

Prometheus and Covenant have simply left us wanting more on the Engineers but feeling let down. 

Would it be a repeat with the Drukathi? 

And im not sure Awakening as a title could apply to the Drukathi, who are apparently older than every species we know of and awakened long ago from what Ive heard.

Barf The Mog

MemberFacehuggerJun-09-2017 8:09 AM

Engineers already had created the deacon (see mural) - but let's not forget the worms in Prometheus that were exposed to the black goo. The urns react similar to the Facehugger eggs, releasing its contents when a healthy host is present. 

The "black goo" seems to be versatile in its destructive capabilities.  

Ingesting the goo will have a different result over being released into the air, and after time it can meld into an ecosystem creating deadly spores. 

I admittingly like where the story is headed, but it is a bit confusing. 

 

Tiwaz

MemberChestbursterJun-09-2017 8:23 AM

Ewatyamorph, for quite some time there's been rumors of beings "above" the Engineers. Sadly I don't know the source.

As for "Awakening" the Drukathi are said to be long gone but not extinct in that regard they could "awake from their slumber". 

They don't need to fully reveal the Dogs just stating they had a hand in it but keeping them a mystery (but in a good way), letting others do their deeds. Like "they" do in "The Rage War".

Normally I don't refer to RS but this would also fit the War of the worlds scenario Scott mentioned.

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

EWATYAMORPH

MemberOvomorphJun-09-2017 8:33 AM

Barf The Mog

Whats your thoughts on where things are headed?. 

With the Drukathi being classed as Canon from the Novels by FOX, it seems perfectly reasonable that RS could introduce a new set of beings older than the Engineers, but could he do it and hold our attention?. 

Its a lot to cover and would certainly need a couple movies. And does this simply edge out the Engineers and we see and learn no more of them?.

Unless the Drukathi Engineered the Engineers? That way we could learn more on them. Tiwaz, is this how you think they play into things? 

Are the Drukathi the creators of the Engineers? Sorry if that seems like a silly question i have yet to read those Novels. 

Tiwaz

MemberChestbursterJun-09-2017 9:02 AM

EWATYAMORPH, there are no silly questions just stupid answers. ;)

It isn't stated wether the Drukathi created the Engineers or not. But it would fit the "creation rebels against creator"-theme of the movies on a bigger scale. I would find that a bit boring though. 

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

EWATYAMORPH

MemberOvomorphJun-09-2017 9:48 AM

Tiwaz

Haha yeah true. I'm sure I had read somewhere in the past that the Engineers and humans were part of a group of beings with matching DNA that were created by some higher set of beings, but I'm not sure how solid the source was and I'm not sure if RS will introduce this to the movie franchise. 

Until I hear that RS is showing us some new race of ancient Aliens I'll soldier on with the idea that David created the Xenos as far as the movies go and the Engineers previous achievements showed him the way as they were on that track with Eggs/facehuggers and the like. And I'll hope for a return of the Engineers to the movies with a big impact. 

I may read the Novels, beginning with out of the shadows. Part of me wants to delve deeper into LV-178 and Drukathi and all that as I love exploring the canon further, but part of me is also happy to have Ripley float in hypersleep for as long as she did and have no action before ALIENS.

I probably will give them a bash, if they are Canon then they are worth a read.

Another question, do those other books undoubtedly confirm that Xenomorphs are older then the current time with David etc? Does it clearly state that the Drukathi created /encountered them years and years before the time of the Covenant as that would be conflicting to say the least.

Tiwaz

MemberChestbursterJun-09-2017 10:50 AM

EWATYAMORPH

When has there ever been something "clear" in this franchise? ;) Especially  since Prometheus.

You sure you want me to answer your question? That might partially spoil the books for you.

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

EWATYAMORPH

MemberOvomorphJun-09-2017 11:17 AM

Go ahead, don't mind me Tiwaz ;)

nudger40

MemberOvomorphJun-09-2017 12:41 PM

Are the Drukathi the bird/beaked like alien in the mural from Prometheus? 

Tiwaz

MemberChestbursterJun-09-2017 1:05 PM

Ok then. Where to start then...

The Rage War:

1.) Elder Kalakta (Yautja Elder) says the Drukathi are long gone. Considering the longevity of the Yautja that would mean very very long. At least thousands of years. Just mentioning the Drukathi makes even the Yautja wary and nervous.

I can hear "They're not canon!" already. Like it or not since "Fire and Stone" they are. 

2.) The Founders (later The Rage) discover a place they call Midwinter. This place is supposedly 8 million years old. Among the technology to build ships that look organic they also find the remains of aliens with canine features. And they find more, "something dark". That is how it was worded I believe. This doesn't necessarily mean Xenos, I know. However later in the RW it is stated that the Dogs weaponized the Xenomorphs.

Alien: Out of the Shadows/Sea of Sorrows

1.) Roughly 30 years after the Nostromo-Incident miners find a buried city on LV-178. Remains of the inhabitants are described as dog like. There's also a downed "bio-ship" but this one is different from the Engineer ships.

2.) In the city they find traces of a battle between the Drukathi and the Morphs. Including the corpses of a canine-family (Parents with a child) cornered in a chamber. 

3.) As the miners and later mercenaries investigate the said city is (still) infested with Xenomorphs wich were in a hibernation state til then, presumably for thousands of years.

Putting all of this together David can't be the "creator". So David finding the "egg" is the only thing that makes sense here. As it is stated in the A:C-novel. 

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

Tiwaz

MemberChestbursterJun-09-2017 1:14 PM

nudger40, maybe. The description in the books is somewhat different from the mural though.

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

EWATYAMORPH

MemberOvomorphJun-09-2017 2:07 PM

Tiwaz

Ok so you have the Yautja and Drukathi as part of the Alien canon which includes the movie Canon yeah?. 

Going back to what you say on RAGE WAR, you say "it is stated the dogs weaponised the Xenomorphs". Is it stated exactly like that using that name? And when exactly is the timeframe the Drukathi are supposed to have weaponised the Xenos?. A particular year?.

Also, you say on LV-178 they find traces of a battle with "the morphs". Is it stated that this was Xenomorphs involved?. 

Do they also give a timeframe in the Novel on how long the Xenos have been waiting/hibernating or is it just assumed or presumed by yourself this was thousands of years?. 

There is obviously conflicting parts of certain outlets that all seem to be classed as canon. 

What if RS, or anybody for that matter, never ever includes the content of the novels you are talking about in the movies, such as yautja and Drukathi and all this speculation that the Xenomorphs we know so well existed thousands of years ago is only left in these Novels and RS settles on the idea that David was indeed the originator of the Xenomorph as we know it. 

What will you believe then? Will you continue to watch the movies thinking that the Xenomorphs have been around for thousands of years and David was not the one who found the formula for them to come into being, bearing in mind I know the original ALIEN implies that the Space jockey is thousands of years old but that seems to be seriously up for debate now. 

Im curious as to whether you would watch the current movies applying implied canon from another source such as the Novel.

Ill explain something about myself. Most of my reading experience has came from reading the A song of Ice and Fire series on a constant cycle of rereads for a very long time, and I was a regular on that forum for as long as I can remember. I recently left it because lack of a new book has saw the forum go to the dogs and it's a terrible bore now if I'm honest. 

My point is, it was very simple. I was and still am strictly books to the core. There is only one canon and it is the written book. Nothing the TV adaptation shows can ever be relied on as worthy of discussion on the books forum. Infact it is banned and worthy of a suspension if you talk too much about the show. I love that simplicity.

So when it comes to the ALIEN franchise things sort of seem reversed. Their are conflicting canons in the Novels, the movies, video games etc and if I'm honest it's a little strange navigating through it all. 

What ive gathered though is that the movies are top of the tree in regards to canon in this franchise is that not so?. 

If that is the case then if the final word is that David created the Xenomorph we know, then David will have created the Xenomorphs that we all know so well, regardless of what a novel that is not an official Novelisation of a movie implies yes?. 

Tiwaz

MemberChestbursterJun-09-2017 3:23 PM

Ive read FaI too. :)

A thousands of years is stated in the books. And they don't always use Xeno, L.aceronsis or I.raptus. Nonetheless it is quite clear what is meant when mentioned. Of course there is always a cop out. But that would be real cheap.

As far as I'm aware Fox has a close eye on the canon, since 2014 i think. They even made Tim Lebbon change parts of A:OotS. 

But even A:C and the novelization are conflicting, or rather the scene in question is simply missing in the movie. 

In case Mr. Frankenrobot is turned into the Father of Xenos i'm done and i'm not the only one.

Further that would render the novel-merchandise "ad absurdum".  Who buys novels that are "pointless"? Unless Fox's CEOs are a bunch of toddlers. XD

It is this mess of ambiguities and cop out holes the fans are pissed and divided for. And that's why A:C more or less bombed.

 

 

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

Barf The Mog

MemberFacehuggerJun-09-2017 3:26 PM

Tiwaz - I'll chime-in after I get off work.

nudger40

MemberOvomorphJun-09-2017 11:50 PM

Thank you @Tiwaz 

Blackwinter-witch

MemberPraetorianJun-10-2017 12:21 AM

Tiwaz

You said it!!

The franchise has turned into a swamp of cop-outs, nebulous ambiguities and plot holes you could powerslide a star destroyer through.
Not to mention more than a few new problems with continuity and contra-canon issues.

As for David being The Creator Of The Xenomorphs...yeah, they go there. I'm Out.
They make David the Space Jockey, or Walter, or some Human...I'm out.

But I'll keep up with my works, where the spirit and essence of ALIEN is kept alive like a dark flame in the silent dark among the stars.

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

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