Alien Movie Universe

Huge timeline plot hole! or will this be explained in the future?

Alien-Covenant.com/forum/
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18760 Views18 Replies

GRIZZ

MemberOvomorphMay-24-2017 8:43 PM

What we learned from Prometheus is from the looks of it the Engineers facility and room with the black goo has not been disturbed until 2094 when the Prometheus crew shows up.
Thats when we get to see the early evolved versions of the Aliens.
Then in Covenant we learn that David uses experiments and hybrids to create the first true Aliens we all know between 2094-2104.

This brings me to the plot hole. If David created them how have they already been around for thousands of years?

The Predators have hunted them for a very long time as seen in Alien vs Predator in the Antarctic Pyramid that was thousands of years old.

We also see the Predators hunted them well into the 1990s in Predator2 when we see their trophy bones in the ship.

If David is the one that created them how have they been around since ancient times? Did I miss something in the story or is this a major plot hole in the timeline?

18 Replies

GRIZZ

MemberOvomorphMay-24-2017 8:48 PM

where is my post?

GRIZZ

MemberOvomorphMay-24-2017 8:53 PM

never mind it was delayed for spam check.

PickleBack

MemberOvomorphMay-24-2017 9:50 PM

The Alien franchise is not tied to the events in Alien Vs. Predator and the Predator films.

GRIZZ

MemberOvomorphMay-24-2017 10:16 PM

Nonsense they are from the same universe and there is no indication they are from alternate realities. At least not until something in a movie/show says so.

PickleBack

MemberOvomorphMay-24-2017 10:36 PM

Right, both franchises are owned by 20th Century Fox, which allowed them to make a crossover film. However, Ridley Scott has expressed his opinions about Alien Vs. Predator as well as fans and their reactions weren't good. So rather than continuing with the crossover ideas, it felt best to separate the Alien and Predators into their own franchises. I view Alien: Covenant as Ridley's chance to establish the REAL origin of the Xenomorphs. Which he is entitled to since he created the first Alien.

GRIZZ

MemberOvomorphMay-26-2017 12:54 AM

ok even if we disregard any predator connections that still doesnt explain why the crashed ship they found in the original alien movie with the egg pods and the fossilized engineer pilot was thousands of years old.

QueenElizabethShaw

MemberChestbursterMay-26-2017 6:20 AM

GRIZZ

For the sake of saving you some time and trouble, this very thing you've brought up has and is still being heatedly discussed in a number of threads.

Thusfar the main argument against the derelict, jockey, and eggs being old is this:

 

We all base our assumption these things are ancient on

1. The appearance of the Space Jockey

2. Dallas' comment that the space jockey "looks fossilized"


So the rational for these is:

1. Our visual assessment of the space jockey is meaningless since things can look old but it's really not possible to know without carbon dating or some other scientific method of measuring.

2. Dallas was tossing a guess out there, but he never does any kind of testing, nor does his profession qualify him to make that assessment. This is why he specifically says "LOOKS fossilized". Because he knows he's just guessing.

 

You are correct for being confused like many of us were, because the idea of the "ancient derelict" has been the unconfirmed understanding in the lore since 1979. However, without ever having nailed this down as fact in the canon, Ridley has the wiggle room to abandon this concept in favor of a decades old derelict/jockey. 

Now if Alien had a scene where they took a chunk of the Jockey back to the ship and dated it with the on-board tech, it would be a completely different story. Ridley Scott would then have NO wiggle room. But because this never occurred in the film, he is currently operating within reason to go against our assumptions.

Jurassic Park Fan For LIFE

MemberOvomorphMay-26-2017 11:34 AM

I love how so many still believe AVP is canon with the Alien films.

The aliens on the Engineer mural were protomorphs.

Also my theory is that the Engineers (Space Jockeys) fossilize not long after death so perhaps the Space Jockey being dead for 1000/2000 years belief might get retcon.

Tiwaz

MemberChestbursterMay-26-2017 12:02 PM

Don't get me started... XD

Fire and Stone

Life and Death

Rage War Trilogy.

I won't say more.

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

Hicks/Hudson

MemberFacehuggerMay-26-2017 12:11 PM

The "1000 year old Jockey" theory is just based on Dallas' assumption that it's been there forever and a Ridley Scott red herring in interviews over the years way before Prometheus was even thought of. 

It's a case of the cart coming before the horse. Ridley always used to say part of the appeal of the Jockey was that no one knew who he was or what he was doing with a cargo hold full of eggs.

Flash forward to now, where everyone has to know everything, and we get a shoddy explanation a muddle universe of partially explained things on our way to the Jockey on LV-426.

Babylonxeno

MemberFacehuggerMay-26-2017 12:16 PM

The xeno could be a genetic strain the engineers found somewhere and is so rare it is regarded as sacred. David has had the time and has the necessary skill to create them so he brings them back from the engineer archives i guess.

the space jockey might just be a very big engineer, they might not be chestbursted, it might just be the pressure suit. 

Somehow, an engineer has to get those eggs and for some reason crash it on that planet. If its crashed by the way, then why arent the eggs all over the place and smashed up?

Hicks/Hudson

MemberFacehuggerMay-26-2017 12:23 PM

@Babylonxeno

The Jockey that crashed was impregnated with a queen. Queen then goes into the hold and lays eggs, hence why they're not all over the place when it crashes.

GRIZZ

MemberOvomorphMay-26-2017 6:40 PM

theres no such thing as fast fossilization. Ridley Scott said that the engineers seeded worlds and would destroy them if they got out of control or went down a path they didnt like. So the simple explanation is that the goo eventually would get to the end result of the aliens because thats what it was designed to do and David was not the first and the engineers have used the aliens already in the past to wipe out other seeded planets.

Juel Herbranson

MemberOvomorphJun-05-2017 5:03 PM

I thought this was a great movie.  Can't wait to see the next one.

griffinm5779

MemberOvomorphJan-21-2019 3:29 AM

Well most plot holes can be wrapped up with a little time travel.

I think i read the next movies is intended to be The Engineers after David seeking revenge. Sling an alien infested Engineer ship back 50000 (pick a number) years and there you have your crashed ship and fossilized Engineer in Alien.

Thus populating the Galaxy with Aliens (pick a number) years before David created them.. Gives the predators something to play with. Possibly a whole series where the two races battle and Aliens are eventually subdued.

griffinm5779

MemberOvomorphJan-21-2019 3:29 AM

Well most plot holes can be wrapped up with a little time travel.

I think i read the next movies is intended to be The Engineers after David seeking revenge. Sling an alien infested Engineer ship back 50000 (pick a number) years and there you have your crashed ship and fossilized Engineer in Alien.

Thus populating the Galaxy with Aliens (pick a number) years before David created them.. Gives the predators something to play with. Possibly a whole series where the two races battle and Aliens are eventually subdued.

griffinm5779

MemberOvomorphJan-21-2019 3:29 AM

Well most plot holes can be wrapped up with a little time travel.

I think i read the next movies is intended to be The Engineers after David seeking revenge. Sling an alien infested Engineer ship back 50000 (pick a number) years and there you have your crashed ship and fossilized Engineer in Alien.

Thus populating the Galaxy with Aliens (pick a number) years before David created them.. Gives the predators something to play with. Possibly a whole series where the two races battle and Aliens are eventually subdued.

BigDave

MemberDeaconJan-22-2019 12:27 PM

Nice for the Bump!

As i missed this Topic...

The Answer is simply they are ALTERNATIVE Canon...

The AVP Plot kind of contradicts Alien Franchise a little... but its Totally contradicts the Prequels.

They cant really Co-Exist for a number of reasons... and i would consider the AVP Plot as a Alternative Take!

I personally would NEVER consider the AVP's as Canon... and i would welcome a complete AVP REBOOT thats based more on the Comics Time-line and so set say 2150-2250 Time-Line.

I am not a FAN of using Time-Travel... as it would open the Franchise up to like a Terminator where they can just Ret-con stuff by Virtue of going Back in Time... and if the Engineers posses this Technology then why not Go-Back Thousands of Years and Undo Mankind in another way?

I would HOWEVER... consider Time-Travel via a ONE-OFF Event that TearsHole in Space and Time, and so say LV-223 Gets Destroyed as the Derelict is leaving and the Destruction of LV-223 causes a Temporary Tear in Space/Time that sucks the Derelict into it and causes the Crash on LV-426.

This would explain WHY the Derelict/Pilot looked like it had been there for a VERY Long Time and would explain WHY the company only peruses the Derelict and they dont go back to LV-223 because this place is Destroyed.

This kind of LOOP-HOLE could also be used for Blomkamps Alien 5 idea... where the Destruction of Hadleys Hope Creates a Temporary Time-Loop... that causes the Sulaco to be Tossed into TWO Alternative Time-Lines.

One leads to ALIEN 3, the other ALIEN 5.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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