Alien: Covenant

Oram says he had seen the Devil

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Phallic Jaw

FacehuggerMember265 XPMay-20-2017 8:29 PM

before, when speaking to Div'Ed...what did he mean exactly? Was it a figure of speech, or what?  Just seemed really weird.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.  I watched Androids blow and finger each other's flutes.

10 Responses to Oram says he had seen the Devil

Roger55

ChestbursterMember805 XPMay-20-2017 9:19 PM

I found more information about it from an interview to Billy Crudup, he is talking about it at 1:41

https://youtu.be/swP7OAKMDGk

Phallic Jaw

FacehuggerMember265 XPMay-20-2017 9:21 PM

Thanks.  Very weird.  The audience would never figure that out.  It's a pointless back story that has nothing to do with anything.  So he was beaten as a child, big deal.  It's not the same as "meeting the devil", at least not literally.  Even so, for that character to see that beast and David's behavior and to draw comparisons is a little odd.  But so is much of the movie.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.  I watched Androids blow and finger each other's flutes.

Tonehound

FacehuggerMember146 XPMay-20-2017 9:31 PM

I know for a fact that any adult who was beaten and abused as a child would know exactly what the devil looks like. He does indeed come in many forms …

A big deal? I'd say so.

joylitt

NeomorphMember1541 XPMay-20-2017 9:37 PM

Oram is a very contradictory character in the way he is depicted by the screenplay. The way he voices out his own defence when he finds opposition is very confusing.

Phallic Jaw

FacehuggerMember265 XPMay-20-2017 10:32 PM

Sorry Tonehound I didn't mean to seem insensitive.  Of course I am not advocating child abuse in general, I meant in the context of the movie and the character of Oram.  I don't really care if that's what was said by Billy Crudup during that interview as it wasn't alluded to at all during the movie so it is of little importance.  I wouldn't have put that line in the movie to begin with as it doesn't further anything and it is totally unnecessary.  But then again I would have changed a lot of things about Oran's stupid behaviors.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.  I watched Androids blow and finger each other's flutes.

hox

FacehuggerMember457 XPMay-21-2017 10:04 AM

Phallic Jaw, I figured this out and I haven't even checked the youtube link above. I find it to be a fascinating matter. Where does evil actually come from? Oram believes it is a tangible agent (The Devil) who takes many forms. An old (religious) idea.

Can Walter do evil? I say no, regardless of any action he takes, because he was designed not to have free will. Unlike David.

SailorSaturn

OvomorphMember17 XPMay-22-2017 11:24 PM

I just assumed that line was placed to further connect the film to Milton's Paradise Lost and Lucifer being represented by David.

Also, I find it interesting to compare Oram and Shaw as both are believers but Shaw was credited by Weyland for it ("my father is a superstitious man") while Oram was overlooked ("they passed over me for command of this ship for being a man of faith"). 

joylitt

NeomorphMember1541 XPMay-22-2017 11:34 PM

SailorSaturn Shaw was valued by Weyland for her faith on the Engineers, not for her faith on God.

zeppo

OvomorphMember35 XPMay-23-2017 5:40 AM

I found the depiction of faith to be very interesting. Shaw seemed to be very vocal about hers and really didn't get and back lash for it. But Oram got treated as if he's second class for it, being passed over for promotion etc.. so that would tie into religion being something that is looked down upon in the Alien universe.  Now i know that Alien 3 is not a ridley scott movie but the convicts all clung to their faiths as it is all they had left. Maybe something they would never do when they where free men. 

Of course we now know who created us and it wasn't god, and we created David, who thinks he's god, and david created the devil.  a very interesting philosophy to ponder.

SailorSaturn

OvomorphMember17 XPMay-23-2017 7:51 AM

I figured it was her faith in God, considering the "superstitious" comment. It would tie better with all the religious symbolism and would be all the more ironic if you trust that David serves as a representation of Lucifer, the "fallen angel" that yearned for love from his creator, was rejected, and sought to create on his own.

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