Bitter/Sweet pre and post movie release4,281 Views33 RepliesAdd A Reply
Not to whine, but I have noticed a different tone on the forum. Not bad but different. Now that the cat is out of the bag, things have largely gone in different directions from when we were anticipating, theorizing and sometimes just making up silly stuff to pass the time.
Has anyone else noticed this? I am pretty sure Prometheus veterans know. Thoughts?
Yes. I have yet to see it but had no problem learning everything in advance. As someone who is making pre-watch judgements, I'm already warning people who I previously endorsed it to. This is against my nature but from what I've learned, it was clear I needed to correct the wrong-headed preparation I gave to several friends. If anyone can't imagine what that's like, I can firsthand tell you it sucks.
My diminishing hope is that Ridley/Fox is using the strategy of saving the best for later movies. Stupid move btw, for a series of films who's conclusion is so up in the air.
And STILL....I hold out hope for the restorative affect of future films that bring it all together in the manner we've all hoped for.
Don't hate me for being so judgmental.
You all know I'm not like this. Today a co-worker who previously told me they liked Prometheus, spent over an hour ****ting on it and celebrating Covenant's return to the "alien feel". It was unsettling to hear the shift from someone who is fairly intelligent about movies.
Ridley should put the bottle down when he's working on a project he clearly deems critical to his legacy. I have no doubt that whiskey played a role in his decision to heed the complaints against the deeper concepts.
Again, aware I'm making irrational declarations but I'm sorry. Whether I've seen it or not, just knowing the path he's chosen to take is more than enough.
QES- That is encouraging!
I suppose what I mentioned is less about the movie itself but more what I perceive as a general change in the over all vibe around here. Granted- Prometheus veterans may know the feeling better. I imagine it will all level out in time. I kind of miss the general fun and games. Seems more serious now.
I should also put the bottle down.
Night guys :)
Only when it is empty ;)
Well, of course everything is different. Many fanboys are suffering from post trauma disorder right now. A lot of adjustments to do in their heads. I am following these developments closely. I know of a youtuber who watched a movie 3 times even after admitting upon first viewing, that it would be very hard for him to watch it again. The first time around he said he hated the film and gave it a 6 out of 10. The second time he hated it even more. The third time he experienced an epiphany and now he is convinced it is one of the best movies ever. And I know about a few high profile bloggers, among them some who have even been invited to the world premiere, who went in the opposite direction, and now seem to acknowledge the movie is not good and probably are ruminating on the futility of their online theorizing. Their sound castles have been torn apart, and now it's either quitting on the Alien franchise or starting all over again from Ground Zero.
I apologize for digressing from the topic. It is a good one and quite thoughtful. I will try to offer a meaningful contribution tomorrow or perhaps Friday.
Right now I'm feeling my feelings probably far more than I should
joylitt Interesting. I was only a casual lurker when Prometheus came out but imagine this forum may have been similar. I believe Chris or BD even said things got really crazy back in 2012. Thanks- I like the things you post and comment on.
Encouraging thoughts. Speaks to the side of my opinions right now that are looking at the successes in the plot.
QueenElizabethShaw good news is the US press has given the rottentomatoes score a boost and Alien: Covenant is now Certified fresh. Not the same luck with the imdb score though, lot of hate there.
Awhile ago I said I was trying to keep my expectations in check. But in the back of my mind I obviously was hopeful that there was some genuine surprise and more to the Engineer storyline than what they were showing in preview and spoilers and what not.
I also said I feel like I already know exactly what will happen in the movie. After knowing what happens, I feel that was accurate.
Im disappointed the Engineers didn't play a bigger part. I really hope they bring it back at some point.
With that said, I'm still going to see it and probably love it because I'm an Alien nerd. But man was I looking forward to some answers. I wonder the real reason why the Engineers didn't play a bigger role.
DirtWolf Fair enough. I wanted more Xeno/action and that is what it sounds like what we will get. I am fine with exploring the Engineers next go around after getting my action ya yas out.
DirtWolf I guess all that backlash against "Prometheus" and Lindeloff is to blame for that. There was no need to be so harsh with them. The problems in "Prometheus" were fixable, I wonder if keeping the same writers wouldn't have been better. At least they specialize in sci-fi, unlike Logan and company. This time around history kinda repeats itself, only now everybody is blaming Ridley Scott, which is not good at all for the future of the franchise.
Yeah I've noticed the shift in tone/mood/feel around here, and it should level out in time, right now things are in a state of change.
IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING
I have to admit I am feeling kinda deflated. I'm just keeping quiet until folks stateside have seen Covenant and till I have had a second viewing.
"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger
I haven't been on the forum much lately so I haven't noticed the mood, but I was proposing that perhaps they're disappointed for the same reason I am, but it's just a guess.
But I definitely wanted more Xeno action. But I figured Engineers would play a little bit bigger role. I understand that they didn't need Engineers to play a big role to tell this story, as it focuses more on David and the Xenos. So if the writing process naturally led them to a story that just didn't need the Engineers, then that makes sense, rather than trying to force them in there for no reason.
Maybe they'll pick back up on it in a later movie and everything will line up perfectly, and then people might look back at Covenant as a nice change of pace. But I really hope they don't just drop the storyline. All that world building, just to scrap it... that would suck and be dumb.
Who knows though. Maybe they already know where they're going with the Engineers storyline, and maybe they figure they only need 1 or 2 movies to do it. If they ever do continue with it, I hope the "answers" are profound and creative.
I know Prometheus had its problems and that a lot of people criticized it, but I agree that the backlash was a little too much. But I honestly never thought that people had a problem with the Engineers. I've never seen or heard anyone complain about them.
The main complaints I've seen are:
- Too much was crammed into the movie to the point where it didn't make sense to a lot of people, which mostly seems due to cutting out too much stuff.
- Things were too vague, like the opening sacrifice scene, David's motive, worms, Fifield, the black goo in general, etc... this also seems due to cutting out too much stuff.
- Bad pacing. Too boring, which I think is a silly complaint.
- Bad characters.
- Raised more questions than answers, which I also think is silly because that's half the fun.
- No Xenos.
So most of those things are due to the filming/editing process rather than the plot itself. And I really don't see how not including Engineers solves any of those problems. I figured the Prometheus sequel would be Prometheus with a tad bit more action and some Xenos.
But it is what it is. Maybe Ridley already had a plan on how he wants to continue the Engineer storyline and it just didn't fit into Covenant. Or maybe he really did just do it for the people who complained. If that's the case then I don't think Ridley should be blamed for anything. I'm going to judge the film by itself, rather than compare it to Prometheus and what I personally wanted out of a sequel. A good film is a good film, and I'm sure I'll love it regardless.
Did a lot of people really not like the Engineers in Prometheus?
Yeah things will be a mixed bag for the next week or so. Once everyone has seen the movie the theories will start flying again. Other than Chris I think I am the oldest active member of the forums, I remember it did this with Prometheus. We have a lot of people holding out to avoid spoilers.
im just still stuck in disbelief.
from about the start of march i have been checking a:c news 3 or 4 times per day. before that just maybe a few times per week just enough to what news is about.
i pieced together the plot,which is fine. its something i wanted to do. however, for me it was going to be the reveals that were coming that i was looking forward to.
after the tracklisting which gave us the plot we had missing i decided there were maybe only 3 reveals at the most. so i got myself grounded before going in. keeping my expectations, somehow down. even though it was the last thing i wanted to do but things were looking real. so i did.
so after watching and to my disbelief: we got nothing. thats zero. yes after release we will notice some stuff to keep us busy for a thread or so. other than that, we are back to theorising over scraps. the same scraps we have overdone waiting for a:c.
i just dont know if its worth decoding engineer texts, murals exploring potential mythology if their is no answers anyway. it was all for nothing and im unsure if its going to be worth any further time investment into the universe after this??????
so a bit numb is the feeling
Take This.... This is the blood of our lord
Which is why I stated a few times to tone down the speculative direction people were "sure" the movie was going to go. I saw this during Prometheus and it ruined the movie for many. Speculation is fine but when you do it to the point where you create your own entire film, it is always going to disappoint. People here seem to do it to such a large degree. The prometheus release sparked a lot of freak outs arguments and banning right before the films release.
I always try to keep a level head about these things.
Are you meaning that you dont like the AC as high you expected?
So in regards to the tone changing, what I'm noticing most from people (and myself a bit) is disappointment that the engineers story does not get further fleshed out in this film. At the very least I wanted a few questions answered. Namely:
1. What is the black goo exactly/why did the engineers start using it?
2. What is the engineer position on humanity.
I do not share the sentiment that the engineers will be completely dropped from the series. We need them to get the derelict on LV-426. The only way we will get no more about the engineers is if Fox gives up on the project before we reach LV-426.
That said the real question is how much of the engineer story will we get. If we get nothing more than them simply showing up again later only to kill David and capture his cargo before crashing on LV-426, this wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing considering that the xeno origin could still be left a mystery. We might never know what the black goo is or where it came from. We might never know what the engineers were truly all about. This wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. It could counteract the loss of mystery the xeno has already suffered and allow fans to continue pondering into eternity.
The only other thing I've seen on here that really has people reeling are the unanswered questions about Shaw and David prior to AC. We'll be getting those in book form this fall and if reviews are positive, perhaps it will be translated into a movie later.
One thing I think is very important to remember is that when this book does come out, it is likely set to give us more information on David, Shaw, and the engineers.
The movie will divide fans even more than others, but i think give it a few Months and it will become a bit more Quiet as people sing the movies praises or get any disappointments off their chests.
Then the debating of the movies ambiguous or not covered scenes and Plot Holes will begin. Most of these debates will center around David, Shaw and the Engineers and Prometheus.
Because the Fate of the Covenant Crew who suffered a Horrific Ordeal and whats in store now... as well as the Xenomorph are all pretty straight forwards and is set up for a Path thats very predictable.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
With all due respect, but I think you have yourself to blame for spoiling yourself by checking AC news every day. I did it as well, but still thought there was plenty of new stuff and good ideas/ dialogue.
But you're right. Fox and the promotional team should stop releasing twenty or so trailers, featurettes, interviews with the cast etc. Because it's just unnecessary and spoils way too much. I'm taking my uncle and his son to see it this friday and they have only seen ONE trailer. Their movie experience will most certainly differ from ours, the hardcore fans.
@DK - I remember reading a completely bogus synopsis of Prometheus the day before I saw it & it kind of messed things up for me, but hey forgive, forget & get over it?
As far as Alien-Covenant is concerned, I will see it in the US this Friday & am in no way concerned about what spoilers I have read this go-round. I am still concerned as to getting the answer I have sought since 1979/1980.....WHO IS THE BIG GUY IN THE CHAIR?!?!?!
This was the only question I was left asking myself after seeing Alien. I have looked forward to finding out what Sir Ridley knew about him for the last 35+ years, to no avail. Now, I will continue to hope Sir Ridley lives long enough to tell this story.
I love the Xeno, do not get me wrong. The beautiful beast is the greatest gift to cinema in my lifetime. I have got to admit I am also a hopeless Engineer fan-boy, who thinks they are now being treated much the same as AVP has treated the Xeno. Easily killed & stupid......NOT SO!
I do still call the last Engineer 'Bob' as we have all referred to him & physically laugh out loud every time I get to do it! I do not remember who gave him that name, but it is perfect!
I am positive I will love Alien-Covenant, I am just holding out hope we do not have to wait another 5 years for the next installment. I am hoping we will get 2-3 more movies over the next 5-6 years!
I believe the film was grossly over hyped here on scified, but that is to be expected. I think that if we approach all movies in the future with lower expectations we will go out of the theatre much more pleased than if we went in expecting answers to every conspiracy theory and so forth...
@ Grey Seer - Agreed! It is just much easier said than done for a person like me, who named themselves after an X-Files reference! HAHA!!
@snake - just to be clear i wanted to know the plot and found it from all the material available. even though i had worked it out - it wasnt that which disappointed.
it was the fact that they called it a prometheus sequel. we then get - the crossing - hinting at engineer invovement and then choose to not reveal anything or have any engineers in it. (i still think that was a humanoid race similar to humans.)
there seems to be some conflicting opinions on why the covenant came to be.
but i guess its all irrellevent because we have what we have and we have to choose if to believe in it
Take This.... This is the blood of our lord