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The ancient xenomorph

The ancient xenomorph

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QueenElizabethShaw

ChestbursterMember554 XPApr-21-2017 11:22 AM

I've seen many posts on this forum (including very recently) about how disappointing it would be if David is revealed to be the original creator of the xenomorph.

I have to ask, why?

We're talking about an AI created by the founder of WY specifically to assist him in achieving super human power.

This AI then has an existential coming of age, transcends it's programming, and in admiration of humans/engineers ability to create, decides to create new life itself. But not just any new life. This transcendent android uses the premier weapon of mass destruction created by highly advanced humanoids to bring together artificial DNA with that of many other species finally giving us SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE EXISTED.

Call me crazy but THAT is a much heavier and darker origin story than I could have ever asked for. Does it really matter if the creature is ancient? A central point of these films is the idea that all these species are related (including humans). We can probably assume that the neomorph is ancient. Why must it specifically be the xeno that is ancient? If the ancient part of the beast is the neo, does that really change anything?

I'm really trying to understand here why some would allow such a minor detail to ruin these films. Is there something I'm missing here? Some major aspect of the xeno that requires it to be ancient?

26 Responses to The ancient xenomorph

A L I E N 4 2 6

FacehuggerMember444 XPApr-21-2017 11:32 AM

Yeah I don't know why people are so upset about it. People just let their imagination run wild and cook up these theories that they take as absolute canon, and when the story doesn't pan out the way they imagined it, they get angry. It's similar to how people reacted to when they made the space jockey an engineer. It's childish, really. 

Something Real

TrilobiteMember5639 XPApr-21-2017 11:35 AM

QUEENELIZABETSHAW - We are, each of us, slaves to our desires and imaginations. It is the nature of all sentient beings. :)

Nugs

OvomorphMember18 XPApr-21-2017 12:30 PM

Nice points Q E Shaw

dk

TrilobiteMember8212 XPApr-21-2017 12:41 PM

I was always ok with David being the xeno creator. I like the idea. 

sherris

ChestbursterMember516 XPApr-21-2017 1:00 PM

david creating the xeno is ok with me

 the ancient protomorph is deadly enough to warrant respect.

he may of made it stronger in every way but its still a dangerous beast in all forms 

Take This.... This is the blood of our lord

Jeri.theSOB

OvomorphMember86 XPApr-21-2017 1:11 PM

My issue with david being the creator is because then the xenomorph ceases to be a horror of space that can be stumbled upon at random. it's just a frankenstein's monster in space after that point. It just wouldn't have any mystery or fear of the unknown anymore, it wouldn't be Alien anymore. 

It would just be odd if the xenomorph/ Alien which symbolized the epitome of whats alien in the universe was just a mutant of DNA tampering by a human made creation.

while i could see it as alien for being so unnatural in its conception, it would ultimately still be the product of humanity's mistake however indirect it is.

but beyond that it would just be ignoring key story points from alien and prometheus, the timeline being messed up as one of them since the murals in prometheus had facehuggers on it and one with the egg depicted were at least 2000 years old.

As Well as ignoring alien 1979 with the derelict being thousands of years old with the corps being fossilized. 

there's only a 15 year or so gap between Alien covenant and Alien, it would make the alien a very new and small threat all the sudden. half the fear of alien was not knowing if you'd stumble upon it in deep space and that it could show up anyplace. 

It would be interesting to see if david 8 made the neomorph or a protomorph type alien that was like his attempt to create something he learned about from the engineer's ship or paradise. and then in Alien Awakening we would see more of the creatures true horror and why it exists or if a higher being made it or feared it. 

 

 

HappyXeno

FacehuggerMember225 XPApr-21-2017 2:00 PM

I don't have any problems with David being the creator of the Xenos, but I can see why some people do. 

As stated above by Jeri.theSOB, the revelation of David's creation could make the Xenomorph feel like nothing more than a science experiment gone wrong. It just kind of takes away from the whole unknown aspect of the creature. 

But like I said, I think David creating the alien is an excellent story-line. It answers many questions and gives the franchise a villain to be hated even more than the Xenos; their creator.

What's the story, MUTHUR?

Babylonxeno

FacehuggerMember167 XPApr-21-2017 2:14 PM

If david does (re)create the xeno for use against humans, it adds depth to the story of the original alien film but for me, i dont think davids character is capable of coming up with the xeno himself, and what chance he would have if/when he is ever discovered, he would have to be nuked from orbit, a couple of times.

Babylonxeno

FacehuggerMember167 XPApr-21-2017 2:15 PM

By the way, cool picture, where is it from?

Babylonxeno

FacehuggerMember167 XPApr-21-2017 2:15 PM

By the way, cool picture, where is it from?

I.Raptus

PraetorianStaff2414 XPApr-21-2017 4:08 PM

Im with Jeri.theSOB on this. I dont dislike the Sentient AI David being the avenging angel against humanity. BUT the ancient evil idea is much better. If any of you have played the Mass Effect games i like the idea that the Xeno's are much the ME Reapers. An enigmatic Ancient Evil that periodically wipes the galaxy of sentient life when they start advancing too far and assimilating their tech.

Perhaps the Xeno's could be a similar ancient evil. They are seeded on world's and moons waiting for advanced civilisations to explore too far beyond their homeworlds, then waken the beast. They still hold the mystery of who and why they were created and act as a sort guardian buffer between other civilisations 

I.Raptus

PraetorianStaff2414 XPApr-21-2017 4:08 PM

Im with Jeri.theSOB on this. I dont dislike the Sentient AI David being the avenging angel against humanity. BUT the ancient evil idea is much better. If any of you have played the Mass Effect games i like the idea that the Xeno's are much the ME Reapers. An enigmatic Ancient Evil that periodically wipes the galaxy of sentient life when they start advancing too far and assimilating their tech.

Perhaps the Xeno's could be a similar ancient evil. They are seeded on world's and moons waiting for advanced civilisations to explore too far beyond their homeworlds, then waken the beast. They still hold the mystery of who and why they were created and act as a sort guardian buffer between other civilisations 

Stan Winston (deceased)

FacehuggerMember173 XPApr-21-2017 4:44 PM

A dog mistreated to become a dangerous dog is scary, yet more than that we pity its plight and condemn its master. But what if there was a dog that needed no master and no mistreatment to become cruel, sadistic, and evil by its own volition? That to me, is a far more frightening creature.

HappyXeno

FacehuggerMember225 XPApr-21-2017 4:57 PM

Nice analogy @Stan Winston. However, it doesn't seem like David trained the Xenos to be as they are. Creators don't have to act as parents. Sure, David himself is evil, but that doesn't necessarily mean that his creations would turn out the same way. 

What's the story, MUTHUR?

Svanya

PraetorianAdmin4298 XPApr-21-2017 5:18 PM

What people mean when they say David created the Xenomorph, is just the type that we see in the Alien movie, with it's bio mech appearance. I'm sure the xeno species exsited long before that. The xenos acquire certain features from the things they gestate in.  

dk

TrilobiteMember8212 XPApr-21-2017 5:29 PM

Svanya - Correct- I meant the Xeno from Alien whether it happens in AC or he turns out to be the SJ.

Jeri.theSOB

OvomorphMember86 XPApr-21-2017 5:37 PM

@Babylonxeno 

Are you asking about my profile picture?

If so its from the Comic "Aliens Stronghold"

 

I think it would be fine if david is the one to have added the biomechanoid part of the xeno to its biology. there would still be issues with timing as the derelict eggs were there in alien for thousands of years but at least the xenos conception was still hidden in the cosmos. 

i would still like to know why the xenomorph biology still looks similar to the engineers ships or biosuits. and why there were big holes in the engineers cryo pods in prometheus right where a chest burster would have popped out. 

i would also like to know why the black go makes xenomorph like creatures when it mutates things.

Grinning & Dropping Linen

FacehuggerMember245 XPApr-21-2017 8:47 PM

I'm with @JeritheSOB and @Iraptus on id rather the xeno be left some ancient cosmic horror that is unexplainable or in existence because some yet as introduced higher level and terrifying race created them and the engineers.

i think it's cool and does have some nice elements of David does create them but it's far better leaving be this perfect organism an unstoppable force of nature that is just lying in wait out there in the vastness of space. I don't like it being a Frankenstein monster as much  or explained in full... I like much of its reason to exist and the why and how of it to be unknown ..as unknown or things that aren't understood are far more frightening. The fear of the unknown is a deep subconscious feeling that is primal and tough to shake... It's there, it lingers and it's haunting.

Perhaps they will end up doing both things.... Maybe they make sure to illustrate that the xeno is ancient and its existence is a mystery or linked to some higher cosmic power thus keeping the fear of the unknown in space intact.

while maybe they tell the story in AC by explaining that David through his research and experiments lucked into creating a similar creature in this instance.... Going this route could work as It explains what he did on Paradise with his experiments but still leaves the xeno ancient, Lovecraftian and a true incomprehensible cosmic horror that are hinted at yet left unexplained in place.

Jeri.theSOB

OvomorphMember86 XPApr-21-2017 9:05 PM

Thats what i was thinking if the plot includes david making a xeno it would be after studying ancient material on the planet and the engineer history and finds a way to unlocking how to use it.

Essentialy fallowing an old blueprint of sorts but cant seem to get it right every time. 

Almost like the trex in Jurassic park. Its an ancient thing that still inspires awe. But it is just a reserection of the species through genetic tampering and a basic dna. 

Idk maybe im crazy but that feels to keep continuaity with the other movies. And then alien awakening having more solid focus on the engineers and finding exatly how old the xeno its or that even they just stumbled upon it.

 

Necronom IV

FacehuggerMember152 XPApr-21-2017 10:22 PM

Grinning & Dropping Linen, I'm all for that. Wrote in another thread that they could leave the Derelict and Space Jockey an ancient mystery. Yes, David will go on and create xenos, but we will know, for sure, someone has done it before, millions of years ago.

"Kane's son"

tribbleorlfl

OvomorphMember11 XPApr-26-2017 2:33 PM

Long-time listener, first-time caller, here.

I'm personally fine with David being the creator of the monsters in THIS film.  It makes sense from a character perspective, as he was shown to be cavalier in experimenting with Engineer technology and apathetic towards the human suffering his curiosity unleashes.  Reverse-engineering the Xenos, whether they are an ancient species worshiped by the Engineers or simply an effective bioweapon, well that's an interesting plot development to me.

What I have a problem with is David being the creator of THE Xenos, the aliens seen in the prior films.  That seems like a silly and unnecessary retconning of the original Alien just to tie these films in as direct prequels.  To me, it shrinks the universe and in a way cheapens the Xenos.

Starlogger

ChestbursterMember907 XPApr-26-2017 2:53 PM

I don't like the idea. It's the whole chronology and LV-426 and all that...but I suppose if it IS to be, then they'll "correct" the story line for the derelict on LV426 to not quite be so "ancient"...

Starlogger

ChestbursterMember907 XPApr-26-2017 2:53 PM

QES...where is that buttress (or whatever it is) picture from?

IllegalAlienSignedUp

OvomorphMember63 XPApr-26-2017 2:56 PM

Probably Sir R speaking in hyperbole, as usual, if it is to be David as the official creator of the bio mech xeno, no?

QueenElizabethShaw

ChestbursterMember554 XPApr-26-2017 3:29 PM

Starlogger

It's from an 15th Century Abbey. Pictures of the xeno popped up on twitter and facebook some time ago. It had people freaking out, thinking there was some ancient reality revealed. The reality is, the original gargoyles were falling apart and the stone mason who did the restorations in the 90s humorously added some xeno to the mix.

I thought the image was rather appropriate for this thread. :p

You can read about it here.

Starlogger

ChestbursterMember907 XPApr-26-2017 3:35 PM

@QES Ha ha...that's some funny ****e! love it! And love they kept it!

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