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Symbolic link between David and King David of the Old testament

Symbolic link between David and King David of the Old testament

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QueenElizabethShaw

ChestbursterMember554 XPApr-16-2017 8:22 PM

This is likely the laziest post I've ever made. I apologize in advance. I was interested to know if anyone here has found reason to believe Ridley intends for David's character to draw (in any measure) on the figure "King David" from the old testament of the Bible.

Obviously there's the potential parallel of "King David" slaying the giant. Beyond this, I haven't had time to give the idea further consideration.

Has anyone here gone down this line of thought and found any other significant parallels?

10 Responses to Symbolic link between David and King David of the Old testament

dk

TrilobiteMember8212 XPApr-16-2017 8:30 PM

QES- that is not a lazy post. I could easily see that connection given RS's biblical references and also from members.

The only difference I can see is that David created this mess while King David essentially brought down a threat not of his own making.

QueenElizabethShaw

ChestbursterMember554 XPApr-16-2017 8:49 PM

dk

Appreciate the encouragement on the post. I agree with your distinction between David and King David in regards to David creating the mess. That being said, I'm curious on your thoughts about considering the engineers as goliath. At present we see David will attack a humanoid race that may or may not be directly connected to the engineers we saw in Prometheus.

We know from comments of the cast that David will be the recurring character in this series.

The question (in regards to your comment) is, if these humanoids he attacks in AC end up having little to do with the goals of the "engineers", will we see David wage biological war against the "engineers" (symbolically slaying Goliath on behalf of his kingdom [humans]) in one of the final films?

This is one thought I've had, which is part of why I'm curious about other parallels. 

dk

TrilobiteMember8212 XPApr-16-2017 9:21 PM

QES

I could see the Engineers being David's target, but the latest spoiler suggests the inhabitants may not be Engineers. I honestly don't know. Personally, I could see David taking down everyone/thing and ultimately being killed by his own creation in an upcoming movie.

spirit_light_speed

OvomorphMember23 XPApr-16-2017 10:14 PM

In biblical prophecy, the messiah was supposed to be born through King David's lineage.

Here, in an unused shot from Brett's death scene in the original Alien, you can see the Xeno in a Christ-like pose before it strikes. It suggests that Scott may have been playing with this concept from the get go... and in light of Prometheus, the Xeno can definitely be seen as a terrifying, all powerful messiah ~godlike, born through extraordinary means, and one that can literally 'purge a world of sin' through great sacrifice.

If David is indeed the creator of the enhanced, bio mechanical creature that we know, then through his lineage, the parallel stands... a bit of a sickening thought in light of Easter and all, but I think it hits home nicely!

 

CarynDelacroix

FacehuggerMember106 XPApr-17-2017 6:04 AM

King David's ascendance to the throne is viewed as the founding of the Davidic dynasty, an event that would help redeem his lineage’s ancient history and eventually fulfill the prophecy about the messiah.  I think slaying the giants who remained on Earth became more of a side-quest over time.

Shortly after King David takes the throne, it’s followed by a prolonged war between the house of David and house of Saul, who had certain disagreements, preventing him from slaying more giants.  The Covenant appears to be related to King David & the Davidic covenant, but it's also based on a vessel from a story the company likes (related to nautical ideas). 

Tennessee gazes out at "the great big sea of nothingness" in search of white whales (sort of like in Moby Dick), because he views the Neomorphs & Belugamorph types from an oceanic perspective.  Ridley Scott is as much a fan of books about crews out at sea as he is of mythology & biblical history. 

The symbol chosen for the Covenant could possibly reflect this idea about the symbols themselves holding dual meanings (long before the syllable or the Word came into existence).  So we could maybe interpret the Covenant logo as being symbolic of two separate lineages, or as the two android brothers.  OR we could take it to be representative of the twin Cherubs in the hierarchy of angels.  To make matters even more complicated, there's also a chance the covenant is partially related to Hades and Zeus. Hades is one of the pre-christian mythological figures the demigods and ancient Greeks visited to make covenants...

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPApr-17-2017 6:13 AM

QueenElizabethShaw, excellent topic.

I can't imagine a better image to tie in your point above spirit_light_speed. Great discussion as well and this quote below reconciles with Ridley Scott's revelations.

"and one that can literally 'purge a world of sin' through great sacrifice."

Ridley Scott talks about sacrifice as our redeeming trait but we blew it.

"But if you look at it as an 'our children are misbehaving down there' scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, 'Let’s send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it.' Guess what? They crucified him." 

http://www.indiewire.com/2012/06/did-ridley-scott-just-ruin-the-mystery-of-prometheus-kill-its-sequel-109273/

Ridley Scott has now (above in 2012) gone so far as to discuss the Christian history concepts included in the Alien story. This isn't a reach on the analysis because Scott has revealed what inspired his writing, see below.

"We did something very, very bad, and somehow the consequences of that dreadful act accompanied the Engineers back to LV-223 and massacred them.  If you have uneasy suspicions about what 'a bad thing approximately 2,000 years ago' might be, then let me reassure you that you are right.”

Ridley Scott, movies.com

The discussion in the white room (below) is centered on creation.

Ridley Scott elaborated in an interview that this moment is very important (smart was his words) because the concepts David 8 asked about upon his birth were about who created each of them (Peter and David 8).

Ingeniero

PraetorianMember3381 XPApr-17-2017 6:17 AM

"So we could maybe interpret the Covenant logo as being symbolic of two separate lineages, or as the two android brothers.  OR we could take it to be representative of the twin Cherubs in the hierarchy of angels." Excellent interpretation CarynDelacroix.

The Covenant mission symbol is very similar to Zoroastrianism symbols as well, below.

 

CarynDelacroix

FacehuggerMember106 XPApr-17-2017 7:01 AM

I think it all dates back to the pre-Christian mystery cults that the anthropologists don't know enough about yet.  In some of the older comics, there's a faction known as the Order of St. Thomas who traces its origin back to the early Gnostic Christians and opposes the company's agenda at times.

Sir Weyland wanted a "true believer" aboard the Prometheus, so I think he knew that Dr. Shaw is a member of this ancient order that sometimes causes problems for the company.

Scott has also mentioned that they eventually decided not to make Christ an Engineer.  I can’t recall exactly where he said it, but he said it's “too on the nose."  He’d be a demigod, imo.  

To reach Paradise, one must first pass through parts of the Underworld.  The River Styx is where Hades and Seth's type historically make deals with the humans and demigods. The company code names LV-426 "Acheron," a different river of the Underworld than the Styx.  Of course, the Romans had to come along and base their new religion on the older myths.

Easter was originally a pagan celebration that had more to do with ancient fertility rites.  Much like the other holidays that are now associated with Christ, it wasn't originally associated with him.  The birds are supposed to be reproducing like rabbits in spring, laying lots of easter eggs.  The humans were instructed to be fruitful and multiply by one of the God-Kings... 

So yeah, I don’t think the historical Jesus was an Engineer in the context of the story.  He was probably more of a demigod, working with one of the pre-Christian mystery cults.  The whole resurrection thing was a four man job, at least.  The myths and stories date back to long before the early Gnostic Christians - to even before the ancient Sumerians started recording stuff.  By the time the one known as Jesus came along, the Engineers who chose to remain on Earth were probably dead.  I sort of think Russel Crowe slayed the last Engineer that lived on Earth during a battle in the arena.  John Logan and Ridley Scott may send Maximus on a journey across space & time in their new idea for Gladiator 2.  Logan probably decided Maximus will be the one to get revenge on the Romans at some point in the future...

Tiwaz

ChestbursterMember528 XPApr-17-2017 7:47 AM

I like the idea. For me though, we need to know who or what delivered death to LV-223. From there we can conclude the rest. Perhaps David isn't the first non-Mala'kak to get a hold on Engineer technology.

Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.

CarynDelacroix

FacehuggerMember106 XPApr-17-2017 8:32 AM

I view the outbreak on LV-223 as an act of sabotage or war.

It would make the Universe feel a lot more lived-in for me if there are multiple factions stealing the bioweapons back and forth from each other, stealing it from their creators etc.  When we meet the different factions and their followers, we'd initially be unaware of what each group's goal is, and which one is the evil group.  The Gnostic Christians tend to believe that most of the choirs of "angels" were malevolent in one way or another, possibly painting a slightly incorrect picture of them.

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