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Ithink this is the answer to the shaw question

Ithink this is the answer to the shaw question

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Babylonxeno

FacehuggerMember167 XPApr-10-2017 1:13 PM

Well, shaw doesn't look like an alien according to the toy catalogue.

17 Responses to Ithink this is the answer to the shaw question

Blackwinter-witch

PraetorianMember2861 XPApr-10-2017 1:36 PM

well, toy companies usually get some advance notice due to tool-up lead-time and such, so...maybe....??

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

Inquisitor Fifield

FacehuggerMember249 XPApr-10-2017 1:43 PM

Correct, Doctor Elizabeth M. "Ellie" "El" Shaw; archaeologist with doctorates in paleontology, archaeology, human mythology, and metics - will not become a queen, an egg or xenomorph birth machine killed by no tail in a hologramm now or ever.

 

Blackwinter-witch

PraetorianMember2861 XPApr-10-2017 2:59 PM

I think Shaw died pre-Covenant likely from some relatively mundane infection or complications from the surgery in PROMETHEUS.They would not have been a fully-supplied Expedition, at best they'd only have had what could be quickly scavenged from the Lifeboat and Prometheus wreckage, and without proper medicine and such even a simple and minor cut can lead to septicemia and death.

Possibly she might be explained away as having died while she and David were initially exploring the planet after arriving there.

Possibly, she might have found another vessel and fled David and Paradise, continuing her quest for the Homeworld of the Engineers, as she said she wanted to go to where they came from.

Pretty sure we can almost fully rule out any nefarious experiments on her by David that morph her into a Queen or such, however he might have used her as raw material for clones and other biological experimentation.

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10128 XPApr-10-2017 4:03 PM

"Pretty sure we can almost fully rule out any nefarious experiments on her"

Indeed we really cant be sure whats happened to Shaw, it depends how we look at it and the clues.

After Prometheus Ridley Scott indeed said the next movie would follow where Shaw and David go, it was the logical choice as you cant have the Questions the movie left unanswered especially the ones Shaw wants to ask.

We know Ridley Scott confirmed they would be going to the Homeworld of the Engineers and that is Paradise, but it will not be a Paradise for Shaw as it can be a Ominous and Dangerous place, and the beings that they find there are Not-Gods and Not Benevolent... but also these beings are not Engineers or at least they are (or some of them) a higher Level in the Hierarchy than our Engineers, because Ridley did not want to meet God in the first movie... hence Sacrificial and LV-223 Engineers are not Gods which we know, but the next Movie was alluding to Shaw and David meet maybe those who are above the Engineers.

We can only assume thus that David and Shaw are indeed to the place where the LV-223 Engineers had at one point came from, and they will discover indeed those Engineers are not the ones who are running the Show. 

So that left us wondering, do they meet beings? do they meet Engineers? Do they meet/find out who is above the Engineers or maybe even created them?

But now we have arrived at Alien Covenant which has taken place 10 years after David and Shaw have left LV-223, and it appears David is indeed the only inhabitant by the time the Covenant arrives.   It appears Shaw will not play a large role, it remains to be seen what role this is. 

It appears beings related at very least to the Engineers was on Paradise at one point, but they are all dead for the most part by the time the Covenant Arrive...

So my next post will discus how this leaves Shaw

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

CarynDelacroix

FacehuggerMember106 XPApr-10-2017 4:15 PM

@Blackwinter-witch

"Possibly, she might have found another vessel and fled David and Paradise, continuing her quest for the Homeworld"

This is sort of what I think happened.  I'm leaning towards that possibility over others.  It would be somewhat interesting if Dr. Shaw was secretly a spy for another human faction, sent coded signals in her transmissions to avoid the Quiet Eye's detection, and had a few friends pick her up.  Then they leave David stranded on the planet until the Covenant arrives...

David would basically imply that the planet is more like Hell than Paradise and try to be vague about Dr. Shaw being "no longer with us," or "in a better place."  Maybe David covers for Shaw by allowing the company to believe that she's dead.

David's had enough time to think about what he did to Charlie and why Dr. Shaw might have left him on this planet, thus he may want to help her now.  He might lie to Walter and imply he did something terrible to her, when in actuality David decided to help the faction she's part of wage covert war against W-Y. 

Blackwinter-witch

PraetorianMember2861 XPApr-10-2017 4:18 PM

BigDave

There's so many Questions... :D
You make some very good points, and frankly my brain is starting to feel like someone dropped it into a taffy-pull machine these days...so many Possibilities, Speculations, Theories. :D

I just cannot shake the gut-feeling that Paradise isn't the Ancestral home of the Engineers, that in-line with as you said, the ones on Paradise aren't/wren't running the show and that hints that maybe the Paradise Engineers are cast-outs, Fallen ones, who maybe dared too much and violated some civilizational tenets of the Engineer culture?? So, this would be an adopted Homeworld of that bunch??

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10128 XPApr-10-2017 4:26 PM

So indeed we now have to wander what role Shaw plays...

*The Synopsis mentions only David is the Sole Inhabitant

*Ridley Scott mentions that Once Davids Head goes back on he will be very Dangerous.

*Ridley Scott recently mentioned that a David with his head attached will always be many steps ahead of you. So once his head is on he will be unpredictable and what ever his Agenda is, or what ever anyone things he may get up to... Too Late he will be way ahead of them.

*Fassbender referred to David as Creepy, he also said his Human Emotions and Traits was a concern for the company but now these have become more a part of him than he is Machine.

*Fassbender did however say he and Shaw had a kind of fondness, a relationship like a Marriage, and indeed  Marriages can have ups and downs and its a case of how does this relationship end, on Good or Bad Terms or are they still in it together?

*Waterstone referrers Walter as Friendly Robot, and well gives in interviews the expression that David is not the same.

So indeed this does show us David indeed cant be trusted and now answers to No-One,  but he may come across as a persuasive individual who has perhaps Nefarious Intentions.

Regarding Shaws Fate....

*The Set Reports from that took place last Summer, that was on a Embargo until March 1st, had mentioned that they was lead to believe Shaw was trying to hide out away from David. So there relationship and Covenant did not end to well.

*The Set reports also mention that they saw Concept Work of Shaw connected to a Bio-Mechanical Machine, very much like HR Giger pieces of work... but they could not be sure if these pieces of work was put around to thrown them off scent?

*Ridley Scott has said indeed David has been carrying out experiments and that Shaw plays a big role in what David ends up doing latter.  So what ever David does either at the end of the movie, or maybe latter means as far as late in that 10 year period, involves Shaw and you can bet its regarding some of those Experiments or the Xenomorph we see on film.

So there you go, what happened to Shaw?

I think it will be left a bit ambiguous myself, i think we see Shaw in Flash Backs, or more likely just the Hologram recordings but surely they would not require being on set for weeks worth of shooting which i take as being 7 Days.

So indeed Shaw could have.

1) Gone some place else, with or without Davids Blessing i.e did he allow her to go, or did she do a runner and leave him stranded. And while i think Paradise is where the Engineers had came from, maybe Shaw could be off to where ever any more are remaining or their Creators... but i can only see her do this if for Whatever Reason she cant get her Answers on Paradise, or she knows of beings above the Engineers who she now wishes to meet.

2) At some point be used in some Nefarious way by David, we have to wonder what basis does David have to start his experiments, and then if so we have to question when did Shaw realize Davids intentions, or what caused that point when David decided to use her in this way.

3) Shaw will be revealed at the end as being in hiding still, or at least hinted she could be alive some place on Paradise.

4) Shaw simply dies at some point of a illness or natural causes, and then we have to wander what David does with her Body.

5) Shaw is killed by either Engineers or related, or something David created and we have to ask if it was something David created was it his intention.

I however feel, that at some point Shaw is required and plays a BIG ROLE in allowing David to have created what he has done...  but is this Big Role in the use of her Body, and could she be used for this purpose but not be dead?  And could she had agreed with David for this... or she had not agreed to it.

I wonder if there was a agreement of sorts, that involves creation and Shaw, but then David performs experiments or creates something Shaw wanted no part in.

Those Human Baby Skulls i hope are more than a Oversight.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10128 XPApr-10-2017 4:28 PM

As far as the OT goes.

Indeed this maybe confirms Shaw is in the movie as far as being shown in her Prometheus Outfit, i dont think if anything happens to her they would have information about this.  (those who are producing these toys).

As Ridley did want to keep Shaws role kept secret and it appears to be a Small Role as far as Time on Screen but a Role that is very very important to the Plot.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Blackwinter-witch

PraetorianMember2861 XPApr-10-2017 4:39 PM

BigDave

I wish I could upgrade my brain for more 'RAM' and a faster CPU with co-CPUs. :D
Excellent information!! TY for posting it all!!
However now my brain feels like the taffee-pull machine's been cranked to maximum! LOL

Whatever, I'm still going to enjoy all this wonderful theorizing and speculating until the mobie Date...or my brain blows some synapses.

Hmm...if Shaw was hiding/barricading vs David, then I guess it became a dangerous/abusive relationship, and given David that takes on a whole order of magnitude of 'Bad'.

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10128 XPApr-10-2017 4:44 PM

@Blackwinter-witch

As far as Paradise being the Engineers Homeworld, this is a tricky one, Ridley Scott had hinted a few things before when he said he did not want to meet God in the first movie, and this was in reference to the Elders being Cut.

Does this mean the Hierarchy is like that of a Pharaoh's in Ancient Egypt, or like Elders from Ancient Tribes?  So the Elders are Genetically the same as the Engineers?

Or they are Genetically similar but they created the Engineers?

Or does it mean those above the Engineers are not even too related to them and the Elders are not how these Godlike beings will be portrayed.

However, recently Ridley Scott said in reference to the Head Statues in the once scene, which we saw in the TV Spots, that those beings are  Apostles  and Superior Beings but Superior to Who?  The Engineers? Those beings that was on Paradise? or Humans?

I dont think Ridley would point them out if they was merely on the same league as the run of the Mill LV-223 Engineers, the Sacrificial Engineer or those beings we see the Dead Bodies of in Alien Covenant.

However Ridley does still refer Paradise as the place the Engineers are from....

But we have to wander what role are the Engineers, he referred to the LV-223 Engineers or it could have been Engineers in General as Fallen Angels.

The Covenant Badge has similar Cherubs that are depicted on The Ark of the Covenant but the other more common role the Cherub Angels performed in the Bible was to Guard over the Garden of Eden and Paradise.

So when the Last Engineer said he was from Paradise, he could mean that his Race and Purpose was to Guard over Paradise and so it does not have to mean the Engineers came from Paradise as far as Origins.

But then it could mean that indeed yes this place Paradise is where those Engineers had their Ancestors come from, but this does not mean Paradise is where those who created or are above the Engineers are from.

I had a Source over 2 years ago, who claimed to have information on the Prometheus 2 Draft of October 2014 and they gave many details.

But as far as Paradise and Homeworld Goes... they said Paradise is the cradle of Civilization as far as roots to Mankind and we are indeed 4th/5th Generation of our Kind.

They said that Paradise was also not the Homeworld as such but more the Headquarters/Homeworld within out Galaxy. And so this hints that the Engineers True Origin may be much further than Paradise, or at very least those above the Engineers do not come from Paradise but these beings at the Top of the Hierarchy are Inter-Galactic rather than being constrained to our Galaxy alone.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10128 XPApr-10-2017 4:46 PM

I know the feeling, i have been a bit overloaded Brain-wise to debate like i used to on here for a few months, but i am feeling a bit better now.... No Brain Crashes...  ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

CarynDelacroix

FacehuggerMember106 XPApr-10-2017 4:50 PM

@BigDave

"*Fassbender did however say he and Shaw had a kind of fondness, a relationship like a Marriage..."

My thinking is that at some point Shaw and David were making an effective team, solving a number of Engineer mysteries together, acting as partners while exploring Engineer ruins etc.

They were getting along surprisingly well, and David thought she might one day forgive him for killing Charlie.  For whatever reason, Shaw can't let Charlie's death go.  She gets emotional over it from time to time.  David doesn't completely understand her feelings from his perspective.  After she's certain that he killed Charlie, it keeps coming up as an issue.  He thinks she should just forget about it, because he wasn't free at the time. She says that he chose to test on Charlie on purpose, which he sort of did.  Anyway, I think there's a huge fight before she leaves him, and he was sort of hoping she would stay.  So it was almost like a divorce when they split up.  

As far as the Engineers on the planet go, I do tend to think they form part of a different group of Engineers who are at the bottom of the hierarchy.  

Blackwinter-witch

PraetorianMember2861 XPApr-10-2017 4:53 PM

BigDave

The last long-post...man, gets me Thinking!! TY again for posting the info!!

I think my brain's gone into a state I call 'vacuum-mode' where it stops trying to theorize and instead focuses on gathering as much new info as possible for another Theorizing-cycle...in short, it was about to 'crash'. Fine with me, courtesy of you I have a lot more raw material to drop into the Pondering Tank, but I have a feeling that Paradise, as you mentioned, yeah...not a True Ancestral Home World, but a long-established colony/outpost which would make it akin to a home world for many intents and purposes. :)

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

Movie fan

FacehuggerMember500 XPApr-11-2017 6:10 AM

My take on this is that long ago the engineers were given the xenomorph as a god to worship, the xenomorph had no way to reproduce so the engineers engineered the humans to use as sacrifices so they could create more xenomorphs, human females would be transformed into "mothers" human males would become hosts for the eggs.

Obsession is a Power, not a Curse ;)

Cerulean Blue

FacehuggerMember446 XPApr-11-2017 12:14 PM

What if the God & Creator of the Engineers, the Head in the Ampule Room, is a Biomechanical/Synthetic being?  They may have killed the Engineers on LV223 & Paradise, in order to start over on them?  That may be why Bob ripped David 8's head off?

What if the black goo was the Engineer's only effective weapon against them?

May the Engineers have mercy on us all!

Babylonxeno

FacehuggerMember167 XPApr-11-2017 1:04 PM

It looks like shaw is in the film to some extent, i remember the terminator salvation toys had john connor with a terminator hand, which was supposedly the big twist but it never happened. For me, the big shock will be if david and shaw just bomb this planet and thats the end of the engineers, cant be that simple.

Davefried81

FacehuggerMember240 XPApr-11-2017 1:31 PM

Babylonxeno, Conner had a terminator hand?  I collected all of the toys too!  I have to look back at that now-

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