David is truly the alien.

Karstenphd

What can you do David?
I can carry out directives that my human counterparts may find distressing or unethical, also he said I understand human emotions even though I don't feel them myself, and to Vickers, that being said doesn't everybody want their parents dead?
This always kind of chilled me and makes me think that David is even more alien then the engineers and aliens themselves who showed emotions bye smiling compassionately at David before ripping his head off and fighting emotions as Shaw was shouting at him for answers, maybe even shock and fear before attacking the Prometheus crew. They share our DNA and have music and sculptures.
The aliens just want to procreate, provide shelter, and do for their families like we do, and I definitely saw some emotion when the Queen's eggs were threatened she seem to be pissed, plus the way the three Aliens were going back and forth and I think the 4th alien movie before they kill one of their colleagues to escape captivity on the ship, it seemed to be some emotions were going back and forth. The newborn definitely showed emotion the way in which it interacted with rip Lee and had expressive eyes that we could read. I think that's what giving David a lot of human characteristic he does have those expressive eyes and facial expressions even as he says he cares nothing about you, but can make you feel more comfortable by imitating you. Those of us who think that David is going to save Shaw because they bonded on the trip and she saved his body or give revenge to man against the Engineers for hurting Shaw or Humanity, what makes you think that and what are your thoughts in general on David. I think he may well be the most alien component in the films.

https://youtu.be/qgJs7uluwlU

Phallic Jaw

He's synthetic...so no.

Apex_Predator

I am gonna go out on a limb and say David is there to save the day or is in some secret orders from the company.

I assume that scene is where David finds out what the company wants. Something along, find immortality at all costs or to play god.

Karstenphd

I agree Phallic Jaw, and that's what I'm getting at, figuratively, not literally. Though I do believe and hope in some Gigerisque way the alien does have David give it some biomechanical influence,  and, all things considered, we really don't know what the black goo is capable of. Since the new AC 1 and 2 trailers, I'm beginning to think that his abilities of things are alien outside of even the Aliens nature. They might even be considered merciful or tame compared to him, I don't know which if any "synthetic persons" are capable of harming humans, I believe there was some kind of regulator or means to temper their AI prior to or maybe after some incident. 

Karstenphd

Thanks, Apex_Predator for your point of view. I'm being as open minded as possible it's just the distressing and unethical things he admits to being able to do, and being able to mimic perfectly what makes us comfortable, now that Weyland's gone is the company still controlling or has he gone to another level of being, like a rogue dang near infinitely brilliant scientist who looks at us like something on the scale of less than amoebas and was using Shaw, or is good ol' Dave a "love machine" here to save the day? I'm scared! I don't know if anyone empirically knows if that special order ash saw applies to David or Weyland had more to do with his creation and loyalties, crew expendable, not all of creation! 

Farlander

Interesting discussion. That makes me think about the Turing Test. Weyland says that "the only thing he [David] will never have: [is] a soul"... at the same time, in the TED talks viral video, Weyland says that "at this moment of our civilization, we can create cybernetic individuals, who in just a few short years will be completely indistinguishable from us." How far can AI simulate a human person? What means, after all, "not to have a soul", if you can perfectly imitate it?

Another intriguing question can be seen in this dialogue:

SHAW: What happens when Weyland is not around to program you anymore?

DAVID: I suppose I'll be free.

SHAW: You want that?

DAVID: "Want"? Not a concept I'm familiar with. That being said, doesn't everyone want their parents dead?

SHAW: I didn't.

So, David knows the concept of freedom (let's suppose that only theorically, by now), but don't know the concept of "wanting". So, he is saying he doesn't have personal purposes. But in the next sentence, he asks Shaw if "doesn't everyone WANT their parents dead?", and seems to be including himself in this group of "everyone". Is David actually impossible to wish things for himself? Or is he, in some way, able to understand and to want freedom, knowledge, and so on? That seems to be the point here - what is the limits of the Synthetic AI?

Starlogger

Well, in Prometheus Comic Books, Elden, a "construct" (synthetic) becomes infected with the Black Goo and "Alien like", if you will. Not sure I buy it, but I suppose it is supposed to "work" in the Alien universe if we accept that the Comics are canon.

ninXeno426

Correct Starlogger,the Fire and Stone series is indeed canon

Karstenphd

Farlander, Starlogger, ninXeno, thanks for educating me. If I don't read too much  into it (riiiiight!) and take it at face value, David is saying once Weyland is gone, he is unbound by any program designed of man, and I see this as not who (a person, human) we created, but what (?) we created being able to blossom to its full intention, not necessarily man's intentions for it. It makes me think that Weyland had so much hubris that he thought he was not really going to die, wouldn't accept that fate, and kept hiding in stasis until he could expand his life, being solely responsible for Davids actions until his untimely death, where now an epiphany of an android kind takes place, because for some reason David did want his father dead, (good catch, Shaw didn't, that shows the disconnect) so he could be free. The question is the utterly alien part, free to do what? Looking at him walking around mass destruction and countless bodies, a planet devoid of even insects and birds just does not bode well with me.

auximenes

Just thought I'd pop these David images in here:

dk

auximenes

Nice LOL!

Nycro

Haha Auximenes!

dk

auximenes

That would be a perfect addition to the Silliness 2 thread. Please consider posting it there.

ninXeno426

Fantastic Auximenes!Where did you find those!

dk

OP- David is certainly alien to Paradise so he could be called "alien".

Shasta cyclone

I don't think David is really the bad guy but I do think with him being on the planet "learning" he has definitely evolved as far how things work and why we were made to be and is fascinated by it. He finds out that life is a constant evolution and he just wants to help it along faster.

Karstenphd

Funny guys, I'm still scairt, it's like David doesn't feign affection too much, he seems brutally honest with his dishonesty, (poisoning Holloway after Holloway gets drunk and implies he's willing to go to any means to find out more about the Goo etc. 

Hicks/Hudson

@Karstenphd - If there's one emotion David conveys, its curiosity. Whether or not he understand its, he is very curious and that seems to be a running trend with all synthetics (oops, I mean "artificial person") in the franchise. They are stoic, stand-off-ish at times, and very blunt about situations, however they are easily intrigued by anything having to deal with the xeno.

Ash marveled at the alien's ability to be a perfect organism, and he and Bishop both seemed enthralled by the study of the dead facehuggers.

Karstenphd

@Hicks/Hudson your right, it seems obsessive the way that they focus on that Alien. I've heard a lot of theories from because they're programmed that way to time travel and the head statues being David's image and the Engineer recognizing him before ripping his head off. Never in a hundred years saw an "artificial person" being so integral and being close to, at the same level or discussed more than the Aliens themselves and Engineers. Can't wait to see how this unfolds! IMAX 3 D!!!    

Karstenphd

https://youtu.be/qgJs7uluwlU

Karstenphd

Emotional. Right.

Goddamn Tropics in here

Great subject

David is a perfect tampering machine, he has no remorse, unlimited durability and is immune from the goo, he has an agenda to follow from Weyland's programming, however he is now free, which he understood in Prometheus.
Agree with Apex Predator that we will discover the full extent of Davids instructions / programming in AC
In Prometheus Davids character was driven by Lawrence, who he identifies with throughout the film
Intelligence and endurance are Lawrence's main attributes, as are Davids
He uses alarming methods and enjoys them as Lawrence did
Swoops in to solve problems, like rescuing Shaw in the storm with the Engineers head in a swashbuckling manner, like Lawrence
More importantly he wanted his magnificence to be recognised, like Lawrence craved
In AC his Character will be driven by a whoever created the eggs/ huggers ( the cloaked creator Engineers ?)
His magnificence will be his workings from Engineers tech on Paradise and this work will not register as immoral by David
His behaviour will change and become 'More Alien' when the crew try to stop him from what he has become and ultimately produced, or even Walter or another crew member trying to steal his magnificence.....

auximenes

ninXeno426, I found them on a Prometheus page the other day, but I don't recall which one, sorry.

Karstenphd

Now we got Walter creeping me out in his new meet Walter intro, "How dangerous is the acquirement of knowledge?" 

Starlogger

@GTIH Don't be too certain that "David is immune to the goo". Sure, we see a drop on his synthetic finger, but maybe injecting it into his circulation somehow (a la the F&S stories) could have some effect.

Hicks/Hudson

@Starlogger - Injects black goo into circulation, turns him into a cyborg or human altogether?

Starlogger

@Hicks/Hudson he becomes a cyborg/mutant/xeno combo of some sort in the comics.

Ingeniero

Karstenphd, I am really impressed with your topic and I agree with it's premise in it's entirety.

David's capability is to project emotion, read cues from those he can see or be aware of, and digest this feedback in order to become better at projecting emotion over time.

The humans, Engineers, and yes even the alien showed concern or an emotional response.

The Engineer appeared the most manic because he did smile right before a snarl on his face while he was removing David's head to express his answer to Peter Weyland's question.

BigDave

@Starlogger

I think the way things worked with Fire and Stone was simply because Elden was a Synthetic Construct and so he was a Cyborg if you would, well a Synthetic that is constructed with some Organic Material

I would think and assume the Black Goo does not affect a purely 100% Synthetic Lifeform, but we have no way to 100% confirm this is not the case

Karstenphd

 @Ingeniero thanks for educating us with those charts, I hadn't seen those yet. And as far as David is concerned I think of the adage be careful what you wish for, I almost see him as a synthetic version of a thermonuclear weapon or doomsday device. I wonder if David can even be compared with a true sociopath, serial killer, or catalogued in those human constraints, because they gain something from their actions (power,control, gratification, etc) or is he gaining what@Goddamn Tropics in here was alluding to, godliness and magnificence? Or is that even putting human (albeit degenerate) qualities to David, or even as @Hicks/Hudson stated curiosity. I am really interested in what will be the driving force in David, if indeed he gets to establish his unfolding as a being, and if he will ever run out of RAM and just chill out.

Karstenphd

@Starlogger and @Big Dave I really believe in my science fiction heart that it would be so cool to have a material (black goo) so powerful that it could turn the inanimate into the animate, or inorganic into the organic. Speaking of cannon I've been trying to find @Chris link to the best books and comics, any literature that is cannon in the Alien/Prometheus Universe. If anyone knows how to provide a link to his or any other discussing this subject matter please put in here somewhere, I can't seem to find it and really would love to read some good stuff, thanks in advance.