Alien Movie Universe

Alien and the troubles of Artificial Intelligence

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ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-17-2017 4:30 PM
Science fiction has a long history of artificial intelligence turning on us,Terminator,The Matrix,2001 A Space Odyssey to name a few.Alien has had a rather different approach.They have often proven to be just as,if not more dangerous than the xenomorph.After all they are supposed to be trustworthy.In Alien,Ash's identity as an android was a secret,planted on board The Nostromo to collect and safeguard what ever they found on LV-426.His reveal late in the film shocked many,after all it was only two years before audiences saw a much friendlier vision of robots in Star Wars.Ash recalled Hal 9000,only perhaps more sinister due to that he looked,talked and acted just like us,not just a red lense.Bishop was the polar opposite,loyal,no violence,no secret agenda(this time around it was a human instead.)In those 57 years that had past,they seemingly ironed out the issue's with those twitchy A2 models(though that was a convenient cover story to further discredit Ripley.)Then there was Call.200 yesterday had past and androids had become more human than ever,gaining an independence that lead to a recall,"they didn't like being told what to do."Call learned of the United Systems Military's agenda prior to the recall,and set out to sabotage there plans all according to her free will,not programming.That brings us to David 008,who's something of an enigma.Being an early model He doesn't really have any behavior inhibitors that his successors might.David while seeming pretty human,seems to feel superior being an android.A notable example is when Charlie Holloway inquires as to why he needs a helmet to which David replies"I was designed like this because you are more comfortable interacting with your own kind.If i didn't wear the suit it would defeat the purpose." "They're making you guys pretty close huh." "Not too close i hope."Another example would be when David and Holloway discuss creation.Holloway says they made David because they could.David replies"Can you imagine how disappointing it would be to hear the same thing from your creator."Ofcourse you can imagine David has some resentment towards the human race which created him just simply "because they could."It's hard to blame him for some of his actions.That brings us to his role in Alien Covenant where he seemingly has taken on the role of creator.An android who was created by a man who wanted to be a god has possibly become a god himself.Hard to say whether he created the xenomorph(i'd say probably not but he has most likely created the Neomorph and the protomorph)We also have Walter which we know nothing about so far.It's likely he'll be more stoic and reserved like Bishop,but being before Ash and possibly part of the same series possibly twitchy.It's curious to see how these two might interact.Either way the androids have often proven themselves to be just as if not more deadly at times than the xenomorph.A possible cautionary tale about the dangers of creating Artificial Intelligence perhaps?On how things might turn out to be one day if we're not too careful.What do you guys think?P.S. I'd like to credit the various topics and comments from dk,Ati,ali81,chli,Michelle Johnston and various others for their views on artificial intelligence for inspiring this thread.Thank you guys.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

66 Replies

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-17-2017 4:31 PM
Premature launch allow me to finish it before you leave a comment

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-17-2017 4:41 PM
It's finished sorry about that guys

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

dk

MemberTrilobiteFeb-17-2017 7:08 PM

It has already been said, but maybe an android(s) has been running things for a while when the David/Walter levels were made.

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-17-2017 8:41 PM
Ah.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-17-2017 9:15 PM
Do you think they would have been like the working Joes?

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

Goddamn Tropics in here

MemberFacehuggerFeb-18-2017 1:51 PM

No one has come close to Sir Ridders on film to capture the complexities of androids breaking free or malfunctioning
He clearly has a crazy passion for this subject

Roy Batty - his fruitless search for extended life ( similar to Weyland) he ultimately crushed the head of his creator / master in Blade Runner
David 8 - Follows his programming to extended his masters life at all costs, now he is free from his master ( possibly rebelled against him ). David has a free reign to tamper with no boundaries whatsoever coupled with durability and immunity to the black stuff
Ash - Following his orders / programming at all costs, with total disregard to human life, he only malfunctioned when he was caught out by Ripley and tried to brutally kill her.
Walter - ? I'm sure there will be a twist with him, but my best guess is that he will be following higher company Orders, he will make efforts to stop David and bring back what he has created and Kill if required

Long may this deep passion continue in AC and future sequels

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 3:06 PM
I'm sure it will.Androids also play notable roles outside of the films.In Alien Isolation we have the Working Joes,guided by Sevastopol Stations central computer Apollo.When first encountered they are passive,but when you're attempt to make outside contact they become violent.One the i'm not certain of is whether they are trying to protect the Xenomorph or trying prevent it from leaving the station,especially since you learn that Apollo has been given orders to protect it.Another notable example is Elden from Fire and Stone.Refered to as a construct,he's also very passive,almost child like in my opinion.He's rather loyal,but that trust is violated by Francis when he decides to testify the effects of the black goo on him in an effort to cure his cancer.He transforms horribly and rightly so rebels against his human comrades,unleashing a xenomorph horde on board there ship.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

S.M

MemberXenomorphFeb-18-2017 3:14 PM

One of the more interesting takes on AI outside the films is the Stronghold comics.

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 3:18 PM
I'll look into it.Tell me a little about it?

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

S.M

MemberXenomorphFeb-18-2017 3:40 PM

On one level it's the typical mad scientist story, but said scientist has a completely synthetic staff, and his treatment of them and how they are able to respond (or not) is interesting.

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 3:42 PM
Thank you S.M. i believe i found it.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

dk

MemberTrilobiteFeb-18-2017 3:47 PM

That sounds interesting and reminds me of old shows like Twilight Zone and Outer Limits. It boils down to humanity being the cause of its own undoing. The Ani Matrix short Second Renaissance touched on that too. 

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 3:55 PM
Big fan of the Animatrix especially Second Renaissance,perhaps the best thing the Wachowski's wrote.I always kind of wanted to see it expanded on for a movie.Some great Twilight Zone examples would be The Lonely,no hostile AI,just a man and machine on an asteroid.Also Steel,man slowly being replaced by machine.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

S.M

MemberXenomorphFeb-18-2017 4:13 PM

When it comes to AI you can't go past Asimov's I, Robot.

Ati

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 4:21 PM

NIN, thank you for the words in the topic, let's build a better world! :)

dk

MemberTrilobiteFeb-18-2017 4:22 PM

Yes, not to sound like a fogey but I think some of the best stuff is the old stuff. Asimov was among the best and had actual degrees to back up his writing.

BigDave

MemberDeaconFeb-18-2017 4:29 PM

Indeed there has been many good debate on this, i had gone in a  lot of depth about David in previous posts before.

I think with David we have to remember he is allowed a bit more free-will than the other Davids, because he is Weylands Personal David... and i would bank on it that the first David in the year 2025 was only one model and Weylands Son and then when they made David 2, the prototype i would assume that the memories from David 1 was transfered to David 2 Prototype and so on, Each new Models Prototype for testing is Weylands Personnel model and had the memories of the previous Prototypes transferred over and over.

So that David 8 Proto-type on the Prometheus would have 70 years of Memories and Experiences and a slight relaxed Emotion Chip so he could be closer to being Weylands Son.

This is what gives David a SOUL

So David is just as Lucifer,  and so his creators favorite and so was allowed a bit more Free-will but this lead to the Rebellion.

This is the Theme for Prometheus to Alien Covenant, and runs deeper and includes Mankind and Engineers and also the Engineers Creators... a constant tale of Rebellion against Creator/Father.

I do also think WALTER is a straight up company robot without such freedom... but this does not mean he is a Good Robot, he could just as easy have hidden Programing and Agenda like ASH

I think this is where the Twist will come.... we are being led to David being Evil one... but it would be Walter who does this and David will Redeem himself... thats what i think anyway ;)

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconFeb-18-2017 4:33 PM

Indeed SM, I Robot is very relevant and a good movie.

Indeed i think all these are connected to the Theme at play, we can already see Seeds in David 8 for him to potentially lead a Rebellion and have a similar to I Robot and Terminator Plot.. only we wont quite go that route because this is a Alien movie.

But indeed in the expanded Universe you could see some similar problems happen for Weyland-Yutani, but it would seem they had a control on it and no need to abandon Androids completely.

Which funny enough,  Mankind are essentially Robots too, just more Free-will but we are Organic Machines and maybe our creation for the Engineers is similar to why we created David?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 6:04 PM
You're all welcome guys!I Robot is very underappreciated.BigDave:Thank you as well.I always look forward to your input.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

Ati

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 6:07 PM

BigDave, I'm a little bit confused, S.M's comment is about Asimov's I, Robot and you mention the movie I, Robot...

As the movie end credit reveals: the movie is ’suggested by Isaac Asimov’s Book.’ Plus, Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics appear at the beginning of the movie, that's all. :)

Be careful, S.M's eyes are watching you. :)

The film I, Robot, starring Will Smith, was released by Twentieth Century Fox on July 16, 2004 in the United States. Its plot incorporates elements of "Little Lost Robot,"[7] some of Asimov's character names and the Three Laws. However, the plot of the movie is mostly original work adapted from a screenplay Hardwired by Jeff Vintar completely unlinked to Asimov's stories[7] and has been compared to Asimov's The Caves of Steel, which revolves around the murder of a roboticist (although the rest of the film's plot are not based on that novel or other works by Asimov).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Robot

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 6:09 PM
Hey Ati,i own The Caves of Steel!

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

S.M

MemberXenomorphFeb-18-2017 6:17 PM

"Indeed SM, I Robot is very relevant and a good movie."

I was referring to the book.  Didn't really care for the film.

Ati

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 6:23 PM

As I said, the eyes of S.M are watching us... :D

Ati

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 6:24 PM

NIN, I had all of his books on robots, but I sold them a month ago. :)

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 6:30 PM
What i know of the I Robot film is that they've pieced it together from various Asimov stories,at least that's what I've been told.Things like Robot Dreams which i also own.As Ati pointed out it includes Little Lost Robot,and Characters like Eileen Calvin.Never seen it myself.But the novels are often shadowed By to Foundation series.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 6:33 PM
I don't own a whole lot of Asimov,but i do have Caves Of Steel,Foundation,Nemisis,Robot Dreams and some others.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

Ati

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 6:46 PM

NIN, Robot Series and Foundation Series form one universe:

'Asimov later integrated the Robot Series into his all-encompassing Foundation series, making R. Daneel Olivaw appear again twenty thousand years later in the age of the Galactic Empire, in sequels and prequels to the original Foundation trilogy; and in the final book of the Robots series — Robots and Empire — we learn how the worlds that later formed the Empire were settled, and how Earth became radioactive (which was first mentioned in Pebble in the Sky).'

You find everything here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robot_series_(Asimov)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series

Neomorph

MemberChestbursterFeb-18-2017 6:48 PM

With the character David, I think Ridley wanted to revisit the themes present in Blade Runner, such as android behaviour that leads us to questions if they possess "emotions" and even a "soul".

He is a key figure after all, and speaking of a soul, the eye scene in the AC trailer is reminiscent of the starting scene in Blade Runner.

 Come to think of the saying:

"The eyes are the mirror of the soul and reflect everything that seems to be hidden; and like a mirror, they also reflect the person looking into them." - Paolo Cohelo

Below image: Blade Runner

Bottom image: Alien Covenant 

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 6:49 PM
Thank you Ati.That's what my brother tells me.He's read more than i have.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-18-2017 6:53 PM
I haven't made that connection Neomorph.Thank you.Your right about David drawing more from Blade Runner.To prep for the role,Michael Fassbender watched Blade Runner,Not any Alien movies.He was particularly drawn towards Racheal,there for based his performance of her

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

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