Alien: Covenant
Alien and the religious angle

Alien and the religious angle

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ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3070 XPFeb-12-2017 2:31 PM

Since Alien the series has gotten progressively more religious.Alien was simple,The Nostromo's refinery towers resembled cathedrals,plus Ridley described the film as having gothic terror.Aliens didn't seem to have any really(if there's something I'm missing feel free to point it out.)Alien 3 made the first big steps starting with Vincent Ward's Wooden planet.In it he described a group of monks who had been excommunicated from earth centuries ago,and lived on a space station covered completely with wood.They believed themselves to be the last remnants of mankind.The also believed the xenomorph to be the devil.They even forcibly remove Ripley's queen out through her throat in what they describe as an excorsism.The religious order is still echoed in the final film with Dillon leading the prisoners in a bizarre apocalyptic order.Alien Resurrection went one step further with its title being an almost literal nod to the Resurrection of Christ.Early sketches of the Auriga even had it shaped in the form of a crucifix to match the theme.Prometheus even more so than that as it literally deals with our creation.We have Shaw who is driven by her faith(a major point of contention with fans as far as The character goes)to meet our makers,our Gods if you will.There are some possible links from what transpired on LV-223 to the crucifixion of Christ.It's possible he may have been an engineer.We even have Shaw give a virgin birth of sorts,she cannot create life but does through being infected by the black goo.The film takes place on Christmas,that's no coincidence says Ridley Scott.Even at the end of the film Shaw keeps her faith.Now we have Alien Covenant.This one places Shaw and David(i forgot to point out the biblical themes behind his name)on the world of our creators.While its unclear what happened to the engineers,it is clear that David and Shaw become an Adam and Eve for this world Paradise which can be looked at as the garden of Eden .Not only Does David play Adam,but also the snake in the garden of Eden.David also seems to play the role of both God and the Devil,both creator and deceiver.There's also The Covenant itself.Aside from the religious implications with the name of the ship,it Also appears to take on the role of Noah's Ark,carrying only couples two and two.I think there's a lot more to point out,of course if I've missed something feel free the point it out.Is it possible with all the heavy handed religious themes to get an idea on Where the series might go next?Would David literally turn the Covenant into the Ark of the Covenant?Something that holds a terrifying and deadly power?Were the engineers a victim to an event similar to that of the flood?Between Prometheus and Alien Covenant,there are a lot of biblical apocalypse themes at work,so it does seem possible.

 

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

102 Responses to Alien and the religious angle

Ati

PraetorianMember3378 XPFeb-20-2017 8:59 AM

BigDave, how rude, :) , this thread is about religious aspects and you are talking about female body parts. There is R2D2 in that painting as well. Why don't you concentrate on him? :)

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPFeb-20-2017 9:18 AM

Indeed i think there was some interesting Dynamic with Shaw and David to be told... that Sadly i dont think we would get to see now.

As a Plot Device.... If Shaw refuses to help then all we have is the Two of them stuck on LV-223 and so the only way a movie could move forwards would be a rescue mission or other ship intercepts the transmission and then arrives at LV-223

But we have been there and seen it, and if Prometheus was to show us the Engineers are all gone on LV-223 then the only logical choice would be to follow David and Shaw.

Shaw has no choice in the matter...

*She does not know how the Engineers Ships work as far as ability to sustain her until another Earth ship arrives... and then who is to say Humans would get there first (a Question David puts to her in Spaights Draft).

*She would know she can survive for 2 years on the Lifeboat, but then its assuming the damage to it has not affected that.  And she sure as hell does not know the Dangers that await after the Engineer vs her Child Scene... she surely would think that would be a grave risk.

*There is nothing to go back home for, she wanted to get Answers and what she found was totally against what she may have hoped for when she had asked Weyland for help. 

So she is prepared to take up Davids Offer.

A Covenant of sorts... you would expect before she helps him she would try and arange some bargain with David.

Its a case of what end would David keep... and indeed once she is in Cryo-sleep.. which we have to assume happens... David could go anywhere he wants.

Earth? LV-426 or back to LV-223 for a nose around.

But i think he would just head to Paradise as he can get more of his own Answers then.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPFeb-20-2017 9:21 AM

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPFeb-20-2017 10:04 AM

Perhaps the smartest thing for Shaw to do would be to get back to the life support shuttle? Get the gun (which is in the pilot room of the crashed juggernaut) and face the trilobite. She doesn’t know about The Deacon which probably hasn’t been born yet and if it is birthed she might be able to kill it with the gun? She could contact Earth and wait up to 2 years for a rescue ship? To put herself in the mercy of David would be suicide? But we have a curious girl and a curious boy heading for the homeland of the Engineers . . . :)

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPFeb-20-2017 4:21 PM

Pathetic 

The wonderful quality of the English language is many words have quite different meanings. I do not think Sir Peter's quest was pathetic in some sense it was bold and audacious, it was that the man at the end was contemptible and wretched rather like the character in the movie "Servant" where he had been reduced by his preoccupations and the manipulations of his servant who only fed him what he wanted to hear. Thats what I mean by pathetic not the sorry woeful application. 

Vickers 

I have met so many Vickers. The classic person who works in compliance where everything is rule bound and risk managed, intuition and brave entrepreneurial decision making do not come in to it. When faced with a highly unorthodox threat they go to pieces, the orthodoxy of rules cannot help them and they are left stranded which is precisely why Meredith died. She is quite the opposite of the risk taking father. Janek had recently made love to her and was the perfect gentleman and gave her a chance but she was out of her depth and like the inexperienced but trained  pilot or soldier thrown into a real life situation is at their most vulnerable until they gain some street experience she had no time to climb that learning curve. Charlize suffers from being beautiful and that dazzles many, so they do not see the subtlety of her Prom performance, her starting dialogue for the briefing was so on for someone like her, speaking to the audience she was speaking to. Her handling of Shaw and Charlie made clear the mission was a conceit  Her view of the conceit was different to her father but still a conceit nonetheless.

 

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPFeb-20-2017 5:46 PM

Indeed Michelle Weyland did Act Pathetic in his whole outlook, he was desperate but foolish as well, very arrogant if not naive.

Never seemed to cross his mind that awakening one of these Engineers would be met with nothing more than Embrace and a Welcome.

David however knew what Sinister Plot they planned for Mankind, indeed was he also Foolish and Naive?

I would think he was kind of just following Weylands Orders, and who knows maybe he knew there would be the Potential the Engineer would react bad and not give Weyland want he wanted.

But then if David wanted his Parent dead.

I think David was curious and bewildered at finding the Engineers i think he was fascinated by them, like he was with Peter O'Toole in his  Lawrence of Arabia Role

He seemed to admire and respect the Engineers, we have to ask was he not expecting anything but a Warm Embrace too?

I do think the "Once Bitten Twice" quote comes to play here, i am sure David would not want to risk such a thing again once his head is back on.

So he will have a Plan!  does he try and make a Covenant? or Once Bitten Twice Shy

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPFeb-21-2017 2:23 AM

I see Sir Peter more like a stubborn, self centered old man (a bit like Scrooge, perhaps), just as Vickers is a stubborn, self centred, vain, aging woman. They are intelligent but not wise. Sir Peter is the risk taking man (as you say, Michelle) and Vickers more of needing control (no visionary). I don’t think neither of them would have liked to be pitied. “Pathetic” is a bit hard to define, I think? In rhetoric, “pathos” is evoking feelings in the audience, e.g. feelings of sympathy, empathy etc. It’s also used derogatory. You see Sir Peter as pathetic because he is a shadow of his former self - a crippled, drooling, stubborn, perverted image of the young, prosperous businessman? He’s also worth the pain and sorrow he is now suffering in his old age, ailments and death agony? He’s seeking prolonged life for himself, firstly, and secondly as a way of using this knowledge in WY in order make more money? Imagine the profits a company would make if it had the knowledge of prolonging life (perhaps forever)?

We’ll see if Sir Peter will live on in the synthetic world, perhaps in Walter (implanted memories), BD? :)

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPFeb-21-2017 3:18 AM

@BD David was foolish and naive from our point of view as sentient human beings who are driven by fear of death PW/financial greed most of the crew/inadequacy Elizabeth you name it but to me David is like a small boy who is just plain curious. The way he opens the headroom door being a classic Davidian manoeuvre. But why would he let Weyland go down there ? Well thats what you asked for and your the boss so lets do it (The P/A) element but he would be fascinated in his own right everybody was including the audience. He had some answers  "mortal after all" (that will be another one of those themes in Covenant which will look a lot clearer in the rear view mirror). He wants some more answers. He would be interested in why the Engineers wanted to destroy his creators. Now of course having been destroyed himself he might subsequently conclude he is more interested in their tech and the "stolen tech" and doesn't need a philosophical answer, its just an inter species hierarchical because we think we can answer. Indeed he might want to work on what basis they came into being and why they were granted Valhalla and by whom because someone or something has put paid to them and they are now yesterdays news. Thats where the repositioning of the mythos since Prom (there just a superior species) gets interesting.

The big question of the movie is how he reacts to what he sets in motion. Curiosity killed the cat.

Once bitten twice shy that would play into the notion of David the bomber pilot and is a reaction to being torn apart by those "only mortal after all" lot. We shall see, nice discussion about Prometheus and its all about everything quality whereas Covenant will be all about somethings.     

chli

ChestbursterMember935 XPFeb-21-2017 5:31 AM

I also see David as a curious boy but he is not interested in the questions Shaw needs an answer to. David considers them to be irrelevant. He is himself created without a meaningful purpose to himself - just “because we could” (But he is fascinated by the engineers’ technology and what you can do with it)? In fact, he offered Shaw a ride home which she refused. She would still be at his mercy, of course . . .

“Curiosity killed the cat . . . but satisfaction brought it back”. :)

Fire_Stream21

FacehuggerMember143 XPFeb-21-2017 9:54 AM

heh 100...

Apex_Predator

FacehuggerMember118 XPFeb-22-2017 12:13 PM

 

Brought over from another thread.

I read somewhere that Lv 223 and Lv 426 were named after

Leviticus verse 2 23 and 4 26 and since the movie does have a religious tone, who knows.

This is what 223 says

 

"Say to them, ‘If any one of all your offspring throughout your generations approaches the holy things that the people of Israel dedicate to the LORD, while he has an uncleanness, that person shall be cut off from my presence: I am the LORD."

 

4 :26 says

"And all its fat he shall burn on the altar, like the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings. So the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin, and he shall be forgiven."

I find the quotes very interesting. 

 

Want some candy?

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPFeb-22-2017 12:30 PM

Indeed maybe it could be something or not, i dont think anyone officially as confirmed these are connected and are just coincidence, but even if so i am not sure Ridley would say either way.. i think he would like the ambiguity such things can bring.

A interpretation of Leviticus 2:23 in context would be.

That LV-223 was a Place of Sacred Things dedicated to the Engineers Lord,  that may have been perverted and/or that maybe if Mankind is a evolution that was corruption of the original clean DNA of the Engineers... Then arriving to this place would lead to death for them.

A interpretation of Leviticus 4:26 in context would be.

Suggesting that the Space Jockey and Derelict performed a redeeming Sacrifice

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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