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Everything wrong with AVP

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Kane's new face

OvomorphMember34 XPFeb-11-2017 8:02 AM

I just re-watched AVP last night for the first time in almost 13 years. I already had a bad opinion of it but now on revisiting I am convinced it is complete and utter garbage. I immediately started noticing an unexpected number things that were just a blatant slap in the face. It was so awful my wife made me turn it off when the first xeno showed up because it was "ruining alien".

So thought it was only proper to create a thread where it's flaws and moments of low quality could be compiled. We could maybe think of this thread as an effigy to be burned. When all complaints have been aired, the thread can drift into the obscure nether pages of dead threads.

33 Responses to Everything wrong with AVP

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3047 XPFeb-11-2017 6:34 PM

The runner is a problem .Not a single dog in site.The Chestburster birth is too quick.The xenomorph growth even quicker.The Facehuggers look odd.The predators look fat.Thanks to the wimped out pg 13 rating they don't skin or behead there human victims.Goreless Chestbursters.There's more,I'll come back to it.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

I Meme Everything

PraetorianMember4115 XPFeb-11-2017 6:38 PM

The characters were boring AF.  They got the creatures wrong.  This hideousity has a SEQUEL

"Part of the journey is the end..."

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3047 XPFeb-11-2017 6:41 PM

Yep.Aside from the predator being cooler Reqiuem is worse by a long shot 

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

I Meme Everything

PraetorianMember4115 XPFeb-11-2017 6:43 PM

^Yeah.  Like Durp said in his AVPR review, the Xenos looked stupid because the suit actors weren't tall enough and the costumes had to be adjusted

"Part of the journey is the end..."

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPFeb-11-2017 6:45 PM

"The runner is a problem .Not a single dog in site."

Not a single runner in site.

Its main problems are boring characters, lack of tension, and lack of actual Aliens versing Predators. The first fight was pretty decent, but it should have been an appetizer.  Instead we have just over 3 hours of AvP films and that was as good as it got.

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3047 XPFeb-11-2017 6:48 PM

Exactly S.M. 

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3047 XPFeb-11-2017 6:51 PM

What i meant there is the xenomorph run around on all fours like Alien 3's dog/runner varient

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

dk

TrilobiteMember8212 XPFeb-11-2017 7:14 PM

The chest bursters matured to quickly. The predalien chest burster should have been detected by the predators. Other than that I'll be that guy and say I enjoyed it for what it was. I watch the unrated version but don't notice much difference from the theatrical cut.

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3047 XPFeb-11-2017 7:16 PM

Haven't seen the unrated.My brother reminds me that the predators make tiger growls or something like that.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3047 XPFeb-11-2017 7:18 PM

AVP is watchable.I love the scene when the queen is thawed out.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3047 XPFeb-11-2017 7:25 PM

I wish both films took place off of earth.It's been said before.But i do like the LoveCraftian feel of Antarctica.Another issue is that for a movie called AVP there should have been more AVP.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

QueenElizabethShaw

ChestbursterMember554 XPFeb-12-2017 11:54 AM

"The Facehuggers look odd."

Yes and the hosts also appear to be fully conscious and struggling/screaming during impregnation.

Neomorph

ChestbursterMember731 XPFeb-12-2017 12:03 PM

The xeno tail and head used as weapons by a woman who was terrified one moment, only to suddenly become brave the moment she got the weapons (still without any firearms or protective armor)

Kane's new face

OvomorphMember34 XPFeb-12-2017 1:16 PM

The way they did Weyland was weird. A kind ailing explorer willing to sacrifice himself for the common good of the team. Just doesn't jive with the typical Weyland characterization.

Starlogger

ChestbursterMember907 XPFeb-12-2017 1:24 PM

EVERYTHING!

 

The whole series should've never been allowed to happen. It ruined BOTH characters.

I Meme Everything

PraetorianMember4115 XPFeb-12-2017 1:27 PM

^Concur.

"Part of the journey is the end..."

Kane's new face

OvomorphMember34 XPFeb-12-2017 2:16 PM

Also, the main character and the cyber punk chick that got a facehugger were wearing a lot of makeup for wandering around an ancient temple underground. I think that was the most dolled up we've seen of any characters in an Alien or Predator movie.

They also made the xenos way more agile than they've ever been shown to be before. Almost as if Marvel had a hand in it. The film effects were dated. Heavy usage of Matrix style cinematography.

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPFeb-12-2017 3:05 PM

"What i meant there is the xenomorph run around on all fours like Alien 3's dog/runner variant"

Getting around on all fours doesn't mean they had to come from a dog.

" I watch the unrated version but don't notice much difference from the theatrical cut."

The unrated has some extra scenes and badly added CG blood.

"Yes and the hosts also appear to be fully conscious and struggling/screaming during impregnation."

And the huggers don't hug the faces properly.

"The xeno tail and head used as weapons by a woman who was terrified one moment, only to suddenly become brave the moment she got the weapons (still without any firearms or protective armor)"

Having a big Predator with a laser guided energy weapon as her buddy would've done wonders for the confidence.

"The way they did Weyland was weird. A kind ailing explorer willing to sacrifice himself for the common good of the team. Just doesn't jive with the typical Weyland characterization."

Up to this point there was no "typical Weyland characterization".  Of course everyone expected him to be a greedy prick - it's one of the movies few positives that they avoided that particular cliché.

"They also made the xenos way more agile than they've ever been shown to be before. Almost as if Marvel had a hand in it. The film effects were dated. Heavy usage of Matrix style cinematography."

Aliens always were agile.  Advances in CGI mean we can now actually see it without cutting away before you realise it's a dude in a wetsuit with some pipes stuck on it.

The slow mo on the huggers was nifty - the first time.

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3047 XPFeb-12-2017 3:59 PM

That's just the way i think they look S.M.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

Stan Winston (deceased)

FacehuggerMember173 XPFeb-12-2017 4:04 PM

I'm going to say it: I liked this version of Charles Bishop Weyland, better than the Peter Weyland from Prometheus. Probably more because it's Lance Henrickson rather than anything profound about the writing.

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPFeb-12-2017 4:28 PM

I prefer Peter Weyland, but I like how they made Bishop Weyland more then one dimensional (unlike nearly everyone else).

Durp004

FacehuggerMember425 XPFeb-12-2017 6:31 PM

Um the first one?

-Put them in the current time

-All the characters pretty much sucked

 

the second one

-pitch black 90% of the movie

Kane's new face

OvomorphMember34 XPFeb-12-2017 8:53 PM

@Durp004

"-Put them in the current time"

This comment reminds me that AVP and Prometheus had conflicting presentations of all things Weyland. Annoying, though I guess Ridley Scott is at fault for ignoring what was set up in AVP (not that I blame him)

 

@S.M

"Up to this point there was no "typical Weyland characterization". Of course everyone expected him to be a greedy prick - it's one of the movies few positives that they avoided that particular cliché."

You are right. When I posted that, I was thinking of Lance Henriksen in Alien 3. Then I double checked and realized Lance wasn't supposed to be a Weyland in Alien 3. This actually makes me even more annoyed with Lance as the choice for Weyland in AVP. Why ever they would use the same actor that was a completely different character in another Alien movie I can't imagine other than a cheap attempt to excite the crowd. It was a grubby move.

"Aliens always were agile.  Advances in CGI mean we can now actually see it without cutting away before you realise it's a dude in a wetsuit with some pipes stuck on it."

It's true that xenos were always agile, but I'm talking about the jump in performance we see in AVP. To be fair I actually forgot about how agile the xenos were in Resurrection since I don't pay it much attention. But even compared to Resurrection, there was still a pretty serious upgrade in AVP that was a little jarring. It's probably better if I make it clear that my problem here is no ramp up from what we had seen before. That fight scene between Scar and the xeno kicks off and I'm left feeling like I'm watching an Ang Lee movie. Just felt out of place. Maybe it wouldn't have bothered me if that fight took place later in the movie and there had been several scenes prior that showed us this improved ability, gradually increasing the intensity with each scene until we reached a point where the fight scene was less of a dramatic difference. 

Durp004

FacehuggerMember425 XPFeb-13-2017 5:20 AM

I personally enjoy AVPs version of him. Rather than just being an ass because he was named Weyland, he ended up being a good guy. It's more interesting to think at the start the company wasn't this evil thing with horrible intentions and it somehow got that way as time went on.

 

I don't really see the xenos as all that different mannerism wise then what the last few movies gave us, maybe that's why I don't hate AVP, actually started rewatching Prometheus yesterday and the characters in it(minus David) are just as bad, maybe worse the mohawk guy is just in there to cause scenes and be a dick.

Kane's new face

OvomorphMember34 XPFeb-13-2017 6:46 AM

@Durp004

I don't disagree with you or S.M about the character Charles Weyland being likable. S.M was right when he said Weyland was the only character in the movie that didn't feel one-dimensional.

My main point there is that Charles felt out of step with what I had come to expect from Weyland. Granted, that feeling was also based partially based on a misnomer rooted in Lance Henriksen's character Michael Bishop in Alien 3. When I first saw AVP I didn't realize they just decided to use the same actor. I took it as an implication that Lance's character in 3 was also supposed to be a Weyland. Now I see Charles Weyland is the first true depiction if a Weyland we are shown in the movies.

While it is still difficult to move past the awkwardness I felt from his character's presence and role, the ideas of the company being less calculated in it's early days and the founder being not a "greedy prick" are more realistic, it's true. 

To your comments on the Prometheus characters, weren't they supposed to be unlikable? I thought Ridley Scott was taking the opportunity to showcase the pretentious characteristics of academics and polished corporate employees as compared to the likable space truckers from Alien.

QueenElizabethShaw

ChestbursterMember554 XPFeb-13-2017 11:12 AM

Just recalled something. There's a scene somewhere in the film where the Predator and the lead were running away from an explosion in slow motion side by side. It was quite tacky.

Durp004

FacehuggerMember425 XPFeb-13-2017 11:20 AM

If they were the only people it translated fully to were Him, Vickers, and to some extent Holloway, the other characters weren't in it enough to get any point. When first introduced one scientist introduces himself to Fifield he gets told to basically buzz off then when it comes time for someone to criticize the project it again is Fifield(Vickers does in private but he announces it to the group) then when someone needs to freak out and leave on falls to Fifield again to make a scene.

 

That's pretty much the point of that character and that character alone, make a scene whenever you can until it's time to kill someone then it's falling on you. He kind of reminds me of the girl with the gun for AVP, but if she only ever complained or tried to act like an ass.

QueenElizabethShaw

ChestbursterMember554 XPFeb-13-2017 11:52 AM

Durp004

I've seen a fair amount of distaste for Fifield on the forum. It should be noted, his character did in fact have a more important role in the original drafts of the script. It appears he was meant to be a character you became somewhat attached to so that his demonstration of the black goo turning humans into neomorphs had a deeper impact to the viewer. 

He had more coverage before Lindelof altered the script. I would assume that he was meant to be a sub-focal character with a similar caliber to that of Janek. What you have surfaced is likely the product of a higher focus character being reduced down with the script change, but leaving remnants of his former significance in the final product. It seems unlikely that he was intentionally calibrated to create scenes.

Durp004

FacehuggerMember425 XPFeb-13-2017 12:17 PM

I don't think his purpose was just to create scenes, but at the end that's all this character amounted to. Admittedly I'm ignorant to early scripts and can only judge what was put on screen, but in that respect that is ultimately the final product which is what most people will see if the message didn't translate in that medium it's kind of a moot point.

QueenElizabethShaw

ChestbursterMember554 XPFeb-13-2017 12:26 PM

I understand and that is a fair point. Ultimately, it is another mark against Lindelof.

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