Alien Movie Universe

James Cameron's Aliens was a mistake.

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BULL ALIEN

MemberOvomorphFeb-07-2017 8:54 PM

me start by saying I believe Aliens went down the wrong path. In Alien we get a really scary creature with unknown motive's. I loved the egg morphing scene. Imagine you have no control over your body as it breaks down and reforms as an egg, you are alive the whole time. Now that creepy.

Now with Aliens we are given a queen and warriors and now they are more like ants/bees, which takes away the unknown factor of this alien species. The Warriors look more insect like. The queen was garbage in my opinion. She did not look scary and it seemed thrown together. The queen could of been more scary and more bio mechanical. Like the first alien was. The actors i loved but the story and design if the aliens was lazy.

I hope Ridley Scott makes these Aliens scary again. I want fear of the unknown back in these movies.

I

173 Replies

Blackwinter-witch

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 4:23 PM

My main problems with ALIENS is it reduced the Alien to just being cannon-fodder, and further reduced to being nothing more than slobbery-aggro-ants from space.

Then there's the whole Ripley vs W-Y thing. NO way would a corporation that powerful let her run around loose in case she speaks out about what W-Y tried to pull with Nostromo and Order 937. She'd end up in a blacksite detention area, probably with her 'death' registered and everything made to look neat as a pin.

Then there's calling in the Colonial Marines. NO way would W-Y risk that, given what they likely suspected/knew about why the colony went dark. They'd send in their OWN in-house Tactical Security detachment, something like Blackwater, a corporate Military or para-Military asset.

They would not let Ripley know about the colony, and sure as hell wouldn't send her out there to it, not without a solid 'leash' at minimum.

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

BMacReady

MemberOvomorphApr-05-2017 5:44 PM

I couldn't agree with you more @BULL ALIEN. I believe now more than ever before as I look back ALIENS is a made for "Hollywood" film where ALIEN is an independent masterpiece. JC clearly did the whole creature mythology a disservice by turning them into insects. We can only hope and pray that Ridley can fix this somehow and include the eggmorphing in the creatures lifecycle. If that can happen I'll be more than satisfied. I'm with you @BULL ALIEN!  ;)

"Sometimes to create, one must first destroy." 

Svanya

AdminPraetorianApr-05-2017 6:11 PM

To everyone arguing about the insect thing, O’Bannon, Ron Cobb, Ron Shusett, HR Giger, and Ridley Scott have ALL said the Xenomorph in Alien was based on an insect. James Cameron was not the one who came up with that. 

This has posted in this thread and in other posts over the years, but i'll link it again here: The Insect Influence in Alien . This is a must read for every Alien fan and explains how the Xenomorph life cycle was based on parasitic wasps. 

"I wanted him [the Alien] to be insect-like. Like an ant. Because if you examine an ant under a microscope they're kind of elegant, and I wanted him to be very elegant and dangerous."

~Ridley Scott, The Alien Saga, 2002 (archival interview from 1991)

Also, the Marines in Aliens knew nothing about what they were going to encounter. When Hudson says "it's a bug hunt" he isn't referring to the Aliens or anything like that. They use the term "Bug Hunt" for a mission they think will be a waste of time.

Rick

MemberXenomorphApr-05-2017 6:33 PM

Bdub - To add to your point.  I think W-Y had military influence.  How do you think Gorman got assigned that that detachment? "recall" the "new lieutenant is too good to eat with the rest of us grunts"  He sat with Burke, Ripley and the XO Bishop.  Thats an easy fix for your loose ends throw all your eggs in a basket and chuck it at a xeno hive.  

Raido

MemberFacehuggerApr-05-2017 6:43 PM

I agree with you, BULL ALIEN. ALIENS is a fun movie when you're a twelve-year-old (or at least it was for me, although having read the ALIEN novelization--which includes the excised egg-morphing scene--I found the queen/hive to be a let-down), but it doesn't hold up well as one gets older. Really the only things that make it watchable for me anymore are Weaver's performance as Ripley (also the only reason I can watch Resurrection), and Henriksen's Bishop.

Starlogger

MemberChestbursterApr-05-2017 6:45 PM

@Blackwinter Well said, my friend!

@Svanya Not a problem with DESIGNING the "Alien" as elegant as an insect...no, the problem lies with treating their CULTURE as an insect. That implies a "hive" mentality, with a simple "Do what the Queen wants, BS". That is an insult to what XX121/Alien/Xeno is supposed to be about.

Blackwinter-witch

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 7:05 PM

Rick

Well, yeah, I can concede a corporation being able to have Influence on Mil/Gov, and that yeah, loose threads would get dealt with quite well by a Xeno hive aside from those few who INSIST on the inconvenience of surviving. :)

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

Blackwinter-witch

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 7:14 PM

Starlogger

TY! While I did concede some points from Logic, I still think W-Y would take a more Insular approach and handle as much of it all as they could 'In House'.

The Alien being based off Insects is fine with me and I suspect many fans who have either always known/suspected such or consider it 'cool' if just finding out. The issue is how Cameron went with such a BORING and lazy idea as a queen-based hierarchy. The Alien had an appropriately ALIEN lifecycle and procreative method, which had it's own unique elegance and horror. THEN, along comes Cameron, and because of his limited creativity and comprehensive faculties he decided to make the Alien species just a bunch of angry space-ants with an uncontrollable drooling problem to be used as suicidal cannon-fodder.

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

Rick

MemberXenomorphApr-05-2017 7:15 PM

Aliens will always hold a special spot in my heart.  When it came out in '86 I was 10 and was dragging my mother to the movie.  That movie scared the hell out of her and when the projector blew up as the queen was coming around the corner hissing in the atmosphere processor my mother screamed and almost pee'd herself.  Was a priceless moment for a 10 year old who loved aliens.  We got a rain check and had to come back in a few days to see the finally.  I had to see it by myself that time.  :)

dk

MemberTrilobiteApr-05-2017 7:42 PM

BWW- That was harsh. I don't think I have seen JC get ripped quite like that before.

 

dk

MemberTrilobiteApr-05-2017 7:44 PM

There seems to be a good amount of Aliens hate. I wonder how many who saw it back in the 80s and flame it now honestly thought it was the sh!t back then.

Blackwinter-witch

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 7:56 PM

dk

Actually, I was being 'Nice', as this is a public forum.

I've met that self-obsessed, self-deifying clod and frankly, he's one of the rudest, most arrogant, egocentric and borderline megalomaniacal jerks I've ever had the misfortune to be in the presence of. This occured when he deigned to glorify the Alberta Oilsands project with his holy presence and proclaim his Decree of Judgement on such. (where-in he paid NO attention to verified Facts and instead went 100% with all the baseless nonsense and garbage-myth about the Oilsands)

I will be extremely happy if he NEVER comes near the ALIENverse again or any franchise I care about, and I will BURN my personal works before ever letting him even sniff the covers.

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 7:57 PM

Agreed dk.I blame Prometheus for expanding the series in unexpected ways.Were it not for the black goo concept I think a lot of can were content with the queen and the hive among other things 

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

Blackwinter-witch

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 8:02 PM

For the Record, I don't 'Hate' ALIENS, but it's NOT genuinely part of what the ALIEN franchise IS or is about, nor does it have the right 'feel'.

Taken by itself, yes, it's a good, fun, interesting , scary-satisfying movie.

My Biggest problem is with how J. Cameron 'cheapened' the Alien.

My opinions on J. Cameron as a person are a matter of record and I stand by them til my dying day.

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

dk

MemberTrilobiteApr-05-2017 8:05 PM

Blackwinter-witch Indeed it is a public forum. I was being honest: I never saw him flamed like that before.

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 8:08 PM

No beefs with your opinion BlackWinter Witch.Aliens is my all time favorite movie so I'm more than a little biased towards it myself.I personally feel the xenomorph were still menacing in the film due to the fact that the marines got their ass's royaly kicked.I do agree about James Cameron though,I was watching Aliens behind the scenes last night and Stan Winston himself summed it up best when he said he's cursed with a vision.He is a miserable and unpleasant SOB

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

dk

MemberTrilobiteApr-05-2017 8:13 PM

BWW- fair enough. It might sound off topic but I am trying to relate: For a lot of reasons, I hate Tom Cruise but I think he did fantastic work in some scifi movies he has done.

Blackwinter-witch

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 8:18 PM

dk

I apologize, but old memories came up and colored my replies more harshly than I would prefer.

That said, I agree on the Point: Cameron does make good movies, as does Tom Cruise. We can dislike them, but are also mature enough to accept the value/calibre of their works, right?

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

dk

MemberTrilobiteApr-05-2017 8:21 PM

I think there is some kind of saying that basically warns against meeting celebrity heroes.

Blackwinter-witch

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 8:29 PM

ninXeno426

I have NO issue with people who enjoy ALIENS, and will admit I do enjoy it myself. BUT, for me it's a Non-ALIEN movie, akin to Starship Troopers...fun and action-y, with really interesting visuals and gear. I will always love the Smartguns, to be honest.

If I DID have an issue with folks who enjoy ALIENS, I'd have a real problem as hubby loves that movie. :D

Hmmm...instead of whining about Cameron's treatment of the Alien, maybe I should shut-up and prove there's a better way to write it? ;)
I haz Ideasz...

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

Blackwinter-witch

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 8:31 PM

dk

I NEVER want to meet any of my real-world heroes/those I admire from afar. In doing so, one takes the risk of having one's perceptions shattered. I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone.

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

dk

MemberTrilobiteApr-05-2017 8:38 PM

BWW- basically, the adage warns of meeting any kind of hero because it could lead to disappointment, and as you said, colour any future works/writings from said hero. However, I did meet a long time hero of a thrash metal band and he was very nice to me and talked with me for a while.

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 8:38 PM

All good BlackWinter Witch!I'd love to here your ideas!I kinda do the same when something doesn't turn out the way I felt it should have.Take Colonial Marines for instance,i'm working on my own story based around that concept and how I think it should have been done 

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 8:40 PM

I met Rob Zombie,he was awesome.I've gotten to meet a lot of guys from my favorite bands and they've all been cool people 

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

dk

MemberTrilobiteApr-05-2017 8:46 PM

Maybe it is different with metal personalities. I met Bobby Blitz of Overkill 30 years into his career and he even gave me a beer and we just had small talk- and he didn't have to do it.

Blackwinter-witch

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 8:49 PM

dk

Good!! That's great to hear!! Always nice to hear about things like that! :)

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

Blackwinter-witch

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 8:53 PM

ninXeno426

Very good to hear you had similar experiences with Music people you like as dk did! Hearing things like that makes the world seem a little brighter. :)

TY for the words of support re; my ideas of an ALIENS 'do-over'! It will be somewhat of a departure from the movie though.

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

dk

MemberTrilobiteApr-05-2017 9:24 PM

So ninXeno426 has something coming down the pipe too. I would like to read that as well. This will be different though since I have interacted with the authors before the release. I have to admit that it would/will be a first for me.

Blackwinter-witch

MemberPraetorianApr-05-2017 9:48 PM

dk

well, this is kind of how it goes for us amateur authors, IF we're fortunate enough to find a receptive audience, as we have here. I like to think that having interacted with us won't bias opinions of our respective works, and from the impressive level of Maturity and Intelligence demonstrated here, I suspect you and the rest of the forum members are emminently capable of reading and evaluating our works Objectively, so I for one am not worried. :)

IN SPACE THERE IS NO WARNING

 

 

 

dk

MemberTrilobiteApr-05-2017 9:54 PM

I am not a book worm at all. Interaction with authors before the fact would motivate me more to read their material.

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