Alien Movie Universe

James Cameron's Aliens was a mistake.

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BULL ALIEN

MemberOvomorphFeb-07-2017 8:54 PM

me start by saying I believe Aliens went down the wrong path. In Alien we get a really scary creature with unknown motive's. I loved the egg morphing scene. Imagine you have no control over your body as it breaks down and reforms as an egg, you are alive the whole time. Now that creepy.

Now with Aliens we are given a queen and warriors and now they are more like ants/bees, which takes away the unknown factor of this alien species. The Warriors look more insect like. The queen was garbage in my opinion. She did not look scary and it seemed thrown together. The queen could of been more scary and more bio mechanical. Like the first alien was. The actors i loved but the story and design if the aliens was lazy.

I hope Ridley Scott makes these Aliens scary again. I want fear of the unknown back in these movies.

I

173 Replies

ali81

MemberNeomorphFeb-09-2017 11:13 AM

I have high hopes for AC. I love Prometheus as I see it for what it is, a stand alone, start up movie but I feel AC is gna be a classic alien movie with different creatures, cant wait

Starlogger

MemberChestbursterFeb-09-2017 11:21 AM

@FireStream

It's rude to call someone's opinion "stupid". The OP, and MANY of us Alien fans, simply think Aliens was a bad take on a sequel. That's not stupid, that's quite the contrary. Perhaps you AND DR. SWOJD should take it elsewhere...

Neomorph

MemberChestbursterFeb-09-2017 11:48 AM

I think it will be very difficult to recreate the same magic Alien had when it was released.

We no longer have the element of surprise with the eggs - facehuggers - Xenos, androids that can't be trusted and not to mention all the gore we've been spoiled with throughout the franchise, (and also in general for the last 30 years) these are some of the blueprints of the Alien themes and aspects that we're already familiar with.

I think Alien Covenant needs to be different to say the least, with a fantastic story and cast to stand the same test of time Alien has endured, because that masterpiece was before its time and arguably the film that, if not established the "sci-fi horror" genre, surely raised it to huge popularity. 

And with that said, I honestly don't think it's possible. Not to be cynical or anything but realistically speaking we've seen so much with so many different films through so many years.

On the other hand and in theory, an Alien Covenant going the "easy route" with all the "clichés" from the previous films, doesn't mean that it won't be memorable, fantastic or even a masterpiece that most people regard as their favourite in the series. Or it could be something completely different we never could expect, I really hope this happens. 

Dr. Curt Connors

MemberChestbursterFeb-09-2017 12:59 PM

@ Lone  That's cool and sweet!

Dr. Curt Connors

MemberChestbursterFeb-09-2017 1:00 PM

Yeah I have a feeling Alien: Covenant is gonna be right up there with Alien and Aliens when it's all said and done!

BigDave

MemberDeaconFeb-09-2017 1:12 PM

Cant beat a bit of optimism ;)

I hope so... i dont think its going to be bad though, i think maybe we could look at it as on par with Alien 3?  But hey ive its better that is a bonus for us all.

Its a tricky one as do they try to please Alieny fans who was disappointed with Prometheus and those who felt Spaights draft was what was needed minus religious and god/creator connections.  Or do they please Fans who liked those aspects of Spaights draft and Lindeloffs and who wanted something different.

Will this movie please the Alien fans a bit more, but still maybe not be the movie they wanted.. still not Spaights or Aliens enough at the risk of also completely tone down the other aspect i.e Engineers etc.

If they get the balance right, they could be onto a winner,  get it a bit wrong and it could be a Hit with Aliens fans, but Cop Out/Miss for other fans i.e Prometheus.

Or worst case scenario... disappoint both..

I think its best to have a bit of Faith and know that there is a long term Aim/Plan... that will please both sets of fans and so the sequels will no doubt draw upon this plan and also address any critic from both sets of fans..

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-09-2017 2:22 PM

Never fear Starlogger Dr whatever has been given the boot.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

BULL ALIEN

MemberOvomorphFeb-09-2017 3:14 PM

So after watching the special edition of Aliens today it pointed out another thing that bugged me. With only a squad of Marines they do some bone head things. Speaking from my background of an Army Veteran also as a Infantrymen. Why did they send everyone into that plant with no idea what was going on?

Why not send in a scouting party first , say Hicks , Frost and Drake with the Medic? That way you can see something is very weird and get out before everyone gets killed or lose a person or two but not the whole squad.

Also why did they back themselves into a corner in that room when they could of taken the fight outside with all their weapons and wipe them out? There was only a set amount of aliens that got a hold of the people on the colony. Minus the ones some colonists killed. It would of been easier to take the high ground and wait for the next drop ship to come down.

ninXeno426

MemberPraetorianFeb-09-2017 3:18 PM

The logic of movie making,your not the to call Camerons military expertise into question

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

Dr. Curt Connors

MemberChestbursterFeb-09-2017 3:34 PM

I don't think that's the case. It was a rescue mission, like Predator, it was supposed to be a quick in and out.  According to the company dude at the beginning they still don't really think these things, Xenomorphs, exist or don't really know what they are capable of. And they didn't know there would be a whole planet of them. Missions go wrong in real life unfortunately, this is no different. And "the company" is always after what they've always been after, the perfect organism. They don't care how many people die to get this.

QueenElizabethShaw

MemberChestbursterFeb-09-2017 3:36 PM

Alien and Aliens complimented each other. Aliens was also catharsis for what happened in Alien.

If Alien had remained a standalone, it may not be as cherished as it is today. Aliens greatly expanded the Alien universe and gave just enough to the character of the creature without killing the horror of it.

If a second film was done in the style of Alien, it would have been predictable and the tone would have been stale. I mentioned that Aliens was catharsis for Alien. This was actually conveyed in the original trailer for Aliens.

"Aliens...This time, it's war"

Not only do those words communicate the theme of a human army verses a xeno one, but it also resonates with the vengeance Ripley is given the chance to enjoy and share with the viewers who experienced her suffering in Alien.

A war movie was the inevitable next step. Whether or not Cameron gave the idea the ideal treatment is a matter of opinion, as others have stated. Ultimately however, the core plot points of Aliens truly did the franchise a service.

Dr. Curt Connors

MemberChestbursterFeb-09-2017 3:37 PM

And these Colonial Marines are cocky, they think they can handle whatever comes at them. Plus Gorman doesn't really know what he's doing entirely, it was a mission that was bound not to succeed. Burke's got the whole evil corporation guy down pat. Fantastic movie!

Neomorph

MemberChestbursterFeb-09-2017 3:41 PM

BULL ALIEN

The guy who played Apone is a Vietnam Veteran and a former sergeant in real life, with several years of experience. 

I'm sure he gave Cameron and the rest of the actors some tactical advice.

Apart from that there was a script laid out for the actors to follow, and tbh I never had an issue with the Colonial Marines' tactics. If they aren't realistic in someone's eyes, they sure gave me an illusion of being realistic and that's what matters imo.

S.M

MemberXenomorphFeb-09-2017 3:51 PM

"So after watching the special edition of Aliens today it pointed out another thing that bugged me. With only a squad of Marines they do some bone head things. Speaking from my background of an Army Veteran also as a Infantrymen. Why did they send everyone into that plant with no idea what was going on?"

They didn't.  Gorman was directing things from the APC 3 levels away. He could see multiple angles from the marines cameras and had access to the motion tracker feeds and AP station blueprints.  At least that was the plan.  Cameron has said he depiction of the marines was more based on Vietnam-era draftee soldiers, than more disciplined marines.

"Also why did they back themselves into a corner in that room when they could of taken the fight outside with all their weapons and wipe them out? There was only a set amount of aliens that got a hold of the people on the colony. Minus the ones some colonists killed. It would of been easier to take the high ground and wait for the next drop ship to come down."

In operations you mean?  They had a limited supply of weapons and ammo.  Would've been pretty difficult to defend a position outside where the Aliens can come at you from any direction.  By barricading themselves inside the colony they could try and funnel the Aliens towards the sentry guns.  There wasn't really any "high ground" as such, and the option to bring down the second dropship only comes into play after they've sealed themselves in.

Dr. Curt Connors

MemberChestbursterFeb-09-2017 3:54 PM

Yeah exactly, in other words they all know what they are doing but they were in over their heads. They didn't know that there would be a whole planet of Xeno's. That's pretty much all you really need to look at, just another mission gone wrong.

S.M

MemberXenomorphFeb-09-2017 3:59 PM

That's kinda the whole point of Ripley.  She's an outsider and no one believes her except Hicks (who of course, lives; as do her two biggest detractors Hudson and Vasquez, giving them a metaphorical slap in the face).  Ripley is allowed to evolve into the leader, when they realise she was right all along and how much their hubris has cost them.

Dr. Curt Connors

MemberChestbursterFeb-09-2017 4:01 PM

@S.M   Exactly

BULL ALIEN

MemberOvomorphFeb-09-2017 4:10 PM

The problem is Ripley had her accounts of what this thing could do put on disc for them all to read, on top of that they saw what happened to the people that made a stand in that hallway /room and it went south plus they also saw that these things do have acid for blood. It just struck me as funny. You can see the aliens went through the top of the barricade and came from below to get to the colonists.

S.M

MemberXenomorphFeb-09-2017 4:29 PM

Prior to them actually finding the colonists and ultimately coming under attack they were still full of bravado believing themselves to be the 'ultimate badasses'.

Which, again, was the point. Cameron was continuing the Vietnam allegory.

QueenElizabethShaw

MemberChestbursterFeb-09-2017 4:40 PM

BULL ALIEN

It's also probable given the marines' attitude during the scene where Gorman suggested they read the file, that most of them didn't bother.

Starlogger

MemberChestbursterFeb-09-2017 4:42 PM

The actual "story" of Aliens would've been fine had someone like RS directed it, with his visuals, and reliance on Giger for co-art direction. Cameron's treatise of the concept just is so dumbed down, it really insults the "Alien" audience's intelligence. Much like "Prometheus" over-estimated it...

S.M

MemberXenomorphFeb-09-2017 4:48 PM

How is it insulting?

Starlogger

MemberChestbursterFeb-09-2017 5:06 PM

@S.M. By thinking all of us just wanted to see pure action without proper characterization, dialogue, suspense, and visuals, instead going for the "full Monty" approach just trying to reveal it all and blow up lots of stuff. The "All American" way of movie making.

S.M

MemberXenomorphFeb-09-2017 5:11 PM

That's extremely broad.  I don't see any lack of characterization, dialogue, suspense and visuals.  What specifically about those aspects was lacking?

Kane's new face

MemberOvomorphFeb-09-2017 7:50 PM

JCs movies have always been hit or miss with me. I like a lot of them but I can't say I love any. Couldn't stand Avatar. I can't say whether or not Aliens would have been better off in someone else's hands. Besides RS, I'm not sure there was anyone else in that decade that could have pulled off a solid sequel. I can say Aliens is my favorite JC movie... but it wasn't a slam dunk.

dk

MemberTrilobiteFeb-09-2017 8:43 PM

Neomorph

Yes, (SM correction)Apone was played by a real former marine NCO- similar how Lee was in Full Metal Jacket. Real deal. Cameron did not seek detailed military/combat protocols, but that level of detail may have been lost on many viewers back then. For those with military experience, (SM correction)Apone can be really appreciated considering Cameron's focus on other things.

S.M

MemberXenomorphFeb-09-2017 9:32 PM

*Apone.

dk

MemberTrilobiteFeb-09-2017 9:42 PM

Thank you, SM.

DK's Spelling of Apone Was a Mistake!

Fixed, sur:)

Intheyear2525

MemberOvomorphFeb-09-2017 10:40 PM

I owe a lot to Aliens. I was six, my mom made me sit on the floor much of the time and then let me watch the end battle scene because she knew how much I loved voltron and transformers. It was fantastic, even formative. But I digress...James Cameron is a pornographer. He makes action porn. Good action porn. T1, Aliens, T2. True Lies. Everything a growing pubescent who likes gi joe would want. Alien had substance; Something that was so underlying visceral that you were uncomfortable and felt unsafe and violating. I'd be happy if Scott turned in a Jurassic park like story with Covenant. That's my guess so far with just more gore to it. But I agree that Aliens was exhilarating and accomplished what it intended although it lost that true sense of violation and haunting horror.

S.M

MemberXenomorphFeb-09-2017 10:56 PM

I don't think porn is the right word, but your last sentence is pretty accurate.

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