Alien: Covenant

James Cameron's Aliens was a mistake.

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BULL ALIEN

OvomorphMember86 XPFeb-07-2017 8:54 PM

me start by saying I believe Aliens went down the wrong path. In Alien we get a really scary creature with unknown motive's. I loved the egg morphing scene. Imagine you have no control over your body as it breaks down and reforms as an egg, you are alive the whole time. Now that creepy.

Now with Aliens we are given a queen and warriors and now they are more like ants/bees, which takes away the unknown factor of this alien species. The Warriors look more insect like. The queen was garbage in my opinion. She did not look scary and it seemed thrown together. The queen could of been more scary and more bio mechanical. Like the first alien was. The actors i loved but the story and design if the aliens was lazy.

I hope Ridley Scott makes these Aliens scary again. I want fear of the unknown back in these movies.

I

173 Responses to James Cameron's Aliens was a mistake.

Chris

EngineerAdmin21815 XPFeb-08-2017 7:31 PM

Topic may continue on. Dr.Swojd decided not to follow our community guidelines and will no longer be welcome or able to post on these forums. Apologies to those he may have offended. 

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3070 XPFeb-08-2017 7:49 PM

Thank you Chris.Lets resume this topic guys.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

Ati

PraetorianMember3378 XPFeb-08-2017 8:05 PM

I think both sides can be understood - different people with different opinions. For me, Alien is an incredible experience. The music, the atmosphere, everything... So mysterious, so unique. However, Aliens contains several exciting scenes as well - I mean exciting visually. An example is the scene when they are outside the building before the dropship's crash and you can see the landscape, the rock formations, etc. Land, air, wind, fire - everything in one scene.

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3070 XPFeb-08-2017 8:12 PM

Excellent view ati.I'm not really going to explain why Aliens is my favorite.That's the great thing about being an individual,you can like and dislike what what ever you want.Since we're on James Cameron I'll give you an example,I hate Titanic.It's got to be the most overrated film of all time.But that's just my opinion.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

Ati

PraetorianMember3378 XPFeb-08-2017 8:17 PM

The problem is I don't like Caprio, so... :) Forgive me everybody, but I don't like Avatar either. Sorry, bye, I have to go...

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3070 XPFeb-08-2017 8:19 PM

See you later ati.I'm not crazy about Avatar either.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

MrGoodkat

OvomorphMember15 XPFeb-08-2017 8:26 PM

For myself, while I find each movie, including AvP, to be quite quotable, A L I E N S is a nonstop quotefest. I have heard a 90 year old and a 5 year say "GAME OVER" or "Nuke Em' from orbit. It's the only way to be sure," at the same time during everyday life. This is probably why it's my favorite, but most agree the first two were totally different movies and imho should not be compared to each other.

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3070 XPFeb-08-2017 8:30 PM

You're right about that MrGoodkat.I started a thread a while back on the best Alien quotes,and it got packed full of Aliens quotes.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

dk

TrilobiteMember8212 XPFeb-08-2017 9:13 PM

To the OP. I am unsure how the same tension in Alien could have continued back then. Going more in an action route made sense to me, especially when considering the general climate of the Rambo/combat movies of the 80s. That said, I still really enjoy Aliens but can definitely understand your point.

Umm..........I think I may be the only one here who never saw Avatar.

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPFeb-08-2017 9:28 PM

For a combat movie it's easy to forget that it's over 45 minutes till we see an Alien, a bit under 50 minutes until a gun is fired, and about 65 minutes till there's any combat.

Dr. Curt Connors

ChestbursterMember661 XPFeb-08-2017 9:56 PM

@dk   I've never seen Crapatar either, sorry Avatar.

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3070 XPFeb-08-2017 9:59 PM

How about the special edition S.M.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPFeb-08-2017 10:04 PM

Add about 6-7 minutes or so to the timings.

BULL ALIEN

OvomorphMember86 XPFeb-08-2017 10:11 PM

Thanks everyone for the greetings. As for Aliens i liked the movie just not the design of the queen and warriors. Maybe if the queen looked like the first alien in some aspects i would of liked it more.

The warriors felt wrong some how , when I was growing up it bugged me.

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3070 XPFeb-08-2017 10:14 PM

 That's fine BULL ALIEN.All opinions are welcome here.I appreciate that you've put this one out here.I also like your specific criticisms.I hope you enjoy it here.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPFeb-08-2017 10:15 PM

Apart from the head, the Aliens are almost identical to the original (minus some detailing that isn't visible in the film). Obviously they move differently, but the actual design is very close to Gigers.

dk

TrilobiteMember8212 XPFeb-08-2017 10:15 PM

I think waiting that long to hear or see gun fire gives even more credit to the story, acting and character development.

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPFeb-08-2017 10:22 PM

Apart from Ripley, there isn't any real character development (maybe Gorman a bit).  Cameron, however, did a great job of creating likeable stereotypes, and we spent long enough with them to feel the loss when they die halfway through the film.  All the marines except Crowe and Wierzbowski get enough screen time to stand out, so we miss them when they're gone (this is something Alien 3 generally failed at).

The key to the first half of the film is gradually stringing us along by dialling up the tension.  We're wondering what's around the next corner just like the characters are, wondering what that tracker signal is, asking questions about where all the colonists are.

Alien 3 again failed at this by having Ripley behind the audience, and AvP tried to copy it, but kept cutting away to the Aliens and Predators telegraphing what's coming too much.

Cameron also gave us the hive battle as an appetiser then topped it in spades with the last 40 minutes of the film.  Anderson gave a bunch of boring characters, failed at creating tension, gave us a pretty decent fight, then people running away, and a fight with the Queen that didn't top the first fight.

Don Digimon Farrakhan Magic Juan

OvomorphMember79 XPFeb-08-2017 11:29 PM

@ S.M Let me start by saying I like the way you disagree with me, honestly. I look forward to clashing on views and opinions as long as we are able to with good health and good movies to see. I say that without sarcasm or disrespect :]

"The only way it would have worked would be to essentially re-make it" What I mean is literally remake it. One Alien, a crew landing on a planetoid due to the derelict and its beacon/warning. And right on down the line, a remake.

Aliens was the polar opposite of the original, start to finish. The enemy was known to the viewers, the mission was clear to the characters, and the horror-suspense from the first film was replaced with action-suspense in the sequel.

Re: "And Dan O'Bannon and Ron Shusett"

I don't think they were part of the process of creating the Alien or the Derelict ship. Im pretty sure that was all Giger. I think O'Bannon and Shusett were involved in the story and screenplay if im not mistaken, the two of them were responsible for getting the film made, on the production and script approval yes? HR Gigers works are what made Alien "Alien". I recall Scott remarking that everything in the film related to the Alien was Gigers responsibility, More over it was Shusett seeing Gigers works that I would suggest planted the seed [no pun intended] for the groundbreaking method of the alien getting on board. Giger's work was machines basically having S&M fun using VERY identifiable parts of the human reproductive processes. Giger's art influenced them that much. For me its clear as day. I'll give them the same credit as Scott for making a great film, but no other visual style regarding the alien aspects of the movie had me imagining so deeply about a creature. I never stayed up late thinking about where Chewbacca or Yoda came from.

Re: the Necronomicon IV. It is the exact creature from Alien, minus the tail shaped like a tally-whacker, and with the addition of the visor/dome plate. You can debate to what extent they differ, but such difference is splitting hairs and Scotts influence on Giger was in fact just Giger altering designs based on Ridley Scott suggesting the tail may be too much, and not liking the resemblance to humans the eyes gave the creature. Im pretty sure Giger based on that input offered the eyes being covered.

Re: the insect influence is dismantled by both Shusett and Obannon in the making of Alien do***entary in that regard. They both state that Gigers work was at the core. The notion of insect reproduction [wasp and spider] is just an example of something in nature that was reflective of the way Gigers work would have to be interpreted on screen. Because the phallic and sexual nature of the art itself is how the 3 stages of the xenomorph came to be. "It screws on of the crew members" -Ron Shusett. As this wouldn't be literal for countless reasons, it was a male crew member of the Nostromo who got the luck of becoming pregnant, and as men have no womb etc etc, it was the chest. The insect world is an example of how a wasp can effectively turn a spider into Kane at the dinner table more or less. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYJXaEN8F4Q&t=3256s     

 

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPFeb-08-2017 11:46 PM

"The enemy was known to the viewers, the mission was clear to the characters, and the horror-suspense from the first film was replaced with action-suspense in the sequel. "

The suspense was born out of the characters not having a clear mission.

"I don't think they were part of the process of creating the Alien or the Derelict ship."

Giger designed what the Alien and Derelict looked like. O'Bannon and Shusett created the actual Alien and Derelict. O'Bannon brought Giger to Ridley's attention.

Much of the film was collaborative.  O'Bannon and Shusett with the original script. Giler and Hill modifying it. Ridley's input.  Giger, Roger Christian, Les Dilley.  From memory Ron Cobb came up with the acid blood idea (as well as the name 'Weylan Yutani'). The final design of the facehugger and chestburster was down to Roger Dicken.

It's not all down to Giger. 

 

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3070 XPFeb-09-2017 4:11 AM

I agree with dk.Aliens is the only movie to rival Alien in terms of pacing and tension.While it is action heavy i don't really view it as an action film.I view it as a great sci fi horror film with action segments.It still has excellent atmosphere,well written characters(character development or not)and builds wonderfully on Scott's vision.After all besides Alien of course,Aliens is the only other film he cares about.That's got to mean something.Alien Covenant,as well as Prometheus both give Aliens there fair share of nods.Covenant even appears to have Colonial Marines in it.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3070 XPFeb-09-2017 4:17 AM

It's also worth noting James Cameron didn't want replicate Alien or even take baby steps from it.Instead he took a major leap and gave us a pretty grand vision.

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

Durp004

FacehuggerMember425 XPFeb-09-2017 5:46 AM

Aliens is my favorite Alien movie, so I wouldn't say it was a mistake.

A L I E N 4 2 6

FacehuggerMember444 XPFeb-09-2017 5:47 AM

While Alien is more of a suspense/horror film, Aliens is more of a thriller with horror undertones. I mean, that first scene where they're getting their buts handed to them is pretty intense and scary 

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPFeb-09-2017 7:26 AM

yea Cameron def did the xeno justice with the first scene. dark and enclosed space and the way he shows the cocoons and the xeno blending into the structure is awesome. im not afraid to say I absolutely dropped one when that colonist opened her eyes.

Neomorph

ChestbursterMember739 XPFeb-09-2017 7:35 AM

Cameron also did the amazing and difficult task of making the xeno cannon fodder (although it does make sense considering the Colonial Marines heavy arms) while still preserving their terrifying appeal and overwhelming strength (metal door ramming) and speed. That's incredible in my book.

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPFeb-09-2017 7:51 AM

yea the xeno got its a$$ kicked but they kept coming where as the marines pulled back. its what it must be like for a grasshopper looking at an unstoppable army of ants coming to rip it to pieces. aliens imo is truly the greatest action movie. Cameron took the right path with the movie, the logical step in the progression of the series. slight changes in alien design and the design of the queen r just a personal view point.

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPFeb-09-2017 10:51 AM

This is what family, friends, former colleagues etc say to me...

"Noticed A L I E N was on and thought of you!"

Peeps, I am defined by my love for an old Sci-fi film! XD 

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPFeb-09-2017 10:56 AM

alien will stand the test of time and still be scaring people in another 30 years.

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPFeb-09-2017 10:58 AM

Too true ali...too true, lets hope AC does the same!

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

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