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Why does Ridley keep changing his mind?

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cmutt

OvomorphMember50 XPFeb-03-2017 8:34 AM

I don't know if this topic has already been discussed or not, but I just can't understand why Ridley Scott has changed his mind and/or his direction so many times with Prometheus and it's sequels.

Specifically:

- he originally said they would not have any xenomorphs, or traditional aliens. (and now it's a horror movie with aliens)

- he said the movies would be about the exploration of the engineers and how their origins tie in with human beings. (he may still deal with this concept, but it seems like it will be to a lesser degree than before)

- He's changed the name of the movie and the direction of the storyline more than a few times. 

It's almost like he's contradicting himself, and it makes me wonder if he's caving into corporate pressure to keep the films closer to what they believe the public wants... which is a traditional "Alien" movie.

- Ridley originally had Spaights (sp?) screenplay, but decides to go with Lindeloff, and they alter some of the plot and direction. (in some ways for the better, in some ways not)

- Lindeloff is then out, he goes with completely new writers. So it seems like he's not really sure what he wants to do, and he's not sure where he wants to go, in terms of the plotline or overall storyline.

Did I miss something? Because I'm just a bit confused by all of this, and it kind of makes me worry that he's going to repeat the mistakes of Prometheus, and deliver a mixed bag.

What do you guys think? 

54 Responses to Why does Ridley keep changing his mind?

Dr. Curt Connors

ChestbursterMember661 XPFeb-07-2017 11:35 AM

@cmutt     I agree, I don't like Prometheus much at all because of all those things you mentioned and more and like I said he has made some stinkers. I am like you there is a lot of stuff in Prometheus I don't like and I'm glad you can see past those things and still enjoy it, I can't. But he has made some great movies and should be allowed to pretty much do what he wants at this point in his career.

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPFeb-07-2017 11:56 AM

Remember, Vickers was actually responsible for hiring some of the scientists and crew. Whatever her motive or agenda was, I think she deliberately set things up so that the mission was more likely to fail.

Holloway was an egomaniac, while Shaw was in pursuit of her maker. The entire theory was founded on their interpretation of the star maps. Yet, it appealed to the egomania of Peter Weyland who regarded himself as a god and believed that immortality or at least a prolonged life, could be his.

If you view the crew viral videos, Janek was someone who followed his own path and wouldn't necessarily follow orders.

Millburn probably still slept with his childhood teddy bear.

I think Fifield was psychotic, potentially a serial killer who replaced the real geologist! ;)

There was something off about most of the characters. Collectively they amounted to a pretty unstable bunch who made for a bad mix!

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3047 XPFeb-07-2017 12:09 PM

Hey Lone,that sounds thread worthy.Would you consider posting "Vickers:Project saboteur?"or something along those lines?

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPFeb-07-2017 12:12 PM

Hi Lone!

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPFeb-07-2017 12:19 PM

Hey guys! *waves*

 

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPFeb-07-2017 12:22 PM

I think Vickers was eaten up with jealousy and hate because of Daddy issues!

Either that, or she was a Yutani synthetic planted on board the Prometheus! :P

*ducks for cover*

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPFeb-07-2017 12:33 PM

Actually ninXeno, thanks for the suggestion, but those ideas are nothing new, so I'm not gonna open myself up to flack by starting another topic on it! 

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPFeb-07-2017 12:38 PM

...

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

Neomorph

ChestbursterMember731 XPFeb-07-2017 1:03 PM

I could see Alien Covenant as a possible attempt to make up for the disappointment of Prometheus and win back and lot of Alien fans.

Nobody can deny that Prometheus polarized Alien fans, some people liked or loved it, others were either disappointed (like me) or downright hated the film (totally not me...nope...nuh uh.. *is innocent*) 

Now we got Xenos and Facehuggers strategically placed in a trailer, and witnesses of the 15 min preview basically saying that it felt/looked more like Alien again on twitter. We also got a Xeno head on the teaser poster. 

All this even though Ridley has stated that the xeno is cooked and not scary anymore.

On the contrary, and to be fair, the emphasis on the xeno and facehugger could merely be a clever marketing campaign, and maybe the next trailer will turn out completely different with Engineers showing up or something. Maybe Ridley changed his mind on the Xenos?

Also, Ridley has stated that it would take a few films to bridge the gap between Prometheus and Alien, but this sounds like an "after-construction" excuse to me as I believe he said it after all the backslash if I'm not mistaken.

With Prometheus I certainly got the impression that Ridley wanted to move away from the Alien universe when he hired another writer and the script and title was changed.

Now, Lindelof is gone from the franchise (despite the signed 3- film contract) and we're back to an Alien title again with yet another writer.

Regardless of any possible explanation, these changes of going back and forth make little sense to me. I just wanted to point out how I could see the early appearance of AC and the history of production changes, and I agree with cmutt. 

cmutt

OvomorphMember50 XPFeb-08-2017 7:05 AM

"Regardless of any possible explanation, these changes of going back and forth make little sense to me. I just wanted to point out how I could see the early appearance of AC and the history of production changes, and I agree with cmutt."

That's pretty much all I'm trying to point out and say with this thread. I'm not trying to crucify RS, and I'm not trashing Prometheus.

But I am questioning some of his decisions, for all of the reasons I've stated. And I think they are very fair observations and criticisms.

Neomorph

ChestbursterMember731 XPFeb-08-2017 7:34 AM

I think it comes down to us lingering in uncertainty due to production silence on this matter.

To my knowledge Ridley hasn't mentioned anything about said changes, and I think it would be appreciated if he did explain what lead to Alien Covenant. Hopefully we'll get that in the making of Alien Covenant blu-ray/dvd.

I also honestly feel that Ridley isn't the guy that would easily admit his own mistakes, and don't you dare criticize his work XD (he has a tendency to get pretty upset in interviews but then again which director wouldn't,  Cameron would f***** kill the guy saying something "wrong") 

I still highly respect Ridley and regard him as one of the greatest directors ever.

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPFeb-08-2017 9:30 AM

If the changes originated from Fox, Ridley will say nothing about it. He'll sell the changes, it's how he operates, with due respect to those paying the bills. 

He's smart enough to know that the about-face in direction alone tells the story, especially when you consider the timeline. Other people may talk, a handful of the artists on Prometheus divulged more than was perhaps graceful to do, but their comments did explain some things. I'm sure similar will happen here, especially if early scripts become available. But Ridley will simply stand by the film. 

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPFeb-08-2017 11:06 AM

Very true Aorta!

Ridley doesn't lay blame or criticise, he gets on with the project and does the very best he can...that's how he rolls!

 

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

suwhited

FacehuggerMember355 XPFeb-08-2017 11:45 AM

"Ridley doesn't lay blame or criticise, he gets on with the project and does the very best he can...that's how he rolls!"

RIDLEY: "Amen"(mutters while sorting through 30 different scripts...) "We will get to the events in Alien...Somehow, Someway"

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPFeb-08-2017 11:52 AM

Hahaha suwhited....that is probably very close to the truth!

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

Neomorph

ChestbursterMember731 XPFeb-08-2017 12:42 PM

One "concern" about Ridley is that he only does two takes when filming and then proceeds. Maybe due to the fact that he puts a lot faith in the actors and gives them so much artistic freedom.

This hasn't always been the case as he was known to be tougher and more demanding earlier in his career.  

Don't get me wrong, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I tend to lean towards "the more demanding perfectionist, the better results" in general (depends on the film though) but this isn't always the case as it may strike back on the overly demanding director, resulting in conflict and unfocused actor performances .

I just don't want too much input from the actors. Theron gave me the impression from interviews in 2012 that she got a bit too comfortable when filming Prometheus. 

My point is that I personally prefer a "bossy" director with total freedom who wants to visualize a story his way. 

cmutt

OvomorphMember50 XPFeb-08-2017 1:56 PM

"Ridley doesn't lay blame or criticise, he gets on with the project and does the very best he can...that's how he rolls!"

RIDLEY: "Amen"(mutters while sorting through 30 different scripts...) "We will get to the events in Alien...Somehow, Someway"

Hmm, doing the best he can given whatever limitations and/or instructions. And just going along with the changes and getting through with it?

That doesn't sound like a winning recipe to me. But I hope some of you guys are right, that he'll rise above and beyond, and take the new mandates(if that's what they are) and somehow ingeniously integrate and weave them into HIS Prometheus storyline... and come out with flying colors.

ninXeno426

PraetorianMember3047 XPFeb-08-2017 3:06 PM

EDIT:wrong board

Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for 

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPFeb-08-2017 4:14 PM

Who really knows what the real deal was.

Seemed Ridley Scott wanted to pose a more straight prequel, he certainly had ideas and all along he seemed to think the Space Jockey was a Ancient event and carrying Bio-Weapons and indeed the Space Jockey was a Space Suit.

But if you are doing a direct prequel its hard to touch upon Ancient Scenes or a movie set thousands of years ago for the most part.... It would seem it would work better if its brought into context directly connected to more Modern Man and exploring Space to uncover such horrors.

And so thats where Spaights draft came in, and Ridley was happy but i think Fox took a liking to the other elements that Alien Engineers was bringing to the TABLE... aside from the Xenomorph.

So Lindeloff was brought in to evolve these ideas and themes and tone down the Xeno's but still offer clues.

In Part The Xenomorph had been done to death, and if you showed its Origin and too much then it would lose some of the Mystery... and so showing just enough but not enough, seemed to be the way forwards.

This evolved to Prometheus.

And it seemed Prometheus 2 was going to explore the questions from Prometheus and maybe it could have given some more clues to the Xenomorph as far as what these Engineers was doing with Evil-Biology and why... and maybe not have to show the Xenomorphs from Alien.

This seemed the stance they had taken, as they explored the Engineers and their Agenda and what was LV-223 for, why was we created, who created the Engineers etc etc.

A Bold and Tricky plot... that again to some degree would maybe need to be delving to much in Ancient Scenes and story from thousands of years ago...  A potential sticky point.

As no doubt bringing in a modern day in timescale to Aliens Human Crew would again be a way to tell a story that Fans can engage in rather than a Spartacus or 300 in Space with Engineers from thousands of years ago.

I think Prometheus was criticized a bit about how it was, and the lack of Xenomorphs and answers, and when Blomkamps Alien 5 started to get a  lot more interest.

I feel Fox felt that actually they would maybe need to bring the Xeno back into it so they can make $$$$$

Also doing this sooner, rather than latter would allow them to do a Alien 5 and be able to touch on stuff related to the Xeno/Engineer Connection and anything planned for Prometheus sequels...  and allow Alien 5 to do so without having to hold stuff back.

This is what i think Ridleys Comment about coming into Alien from the back end/rear means.

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPFeb-08-2017 4:18 PM

ALIEN COVENANT

If it teases and covers the Engineers slighlty but only as much as the Xeno was in Prometheus, and if it then covers the Xeno more than Prometheus but holds a bit back.

They can gauge fans reactions to then see if the next movie, they are doing fine, and if they can  go more Engineer less Xeno, or if indeed the need more Xeno but then bring Engineers into it a little.

No doubt the end game is to pay off the Patient Alien Fans and Prometheus ones with a eventual answers, while bringing out maybe TWO movies first that give Fanboys Xeno treats.. and then leave them asking...

So who was these Engineers and why did they create the Biology that leads to the Xeno... maybe after getting a satisfying dose of Xenos... these fans would then want to know or be open to explore the Engineers role in it all..

if not... well they would have had their answers and Xeno fix from AC and its sequel.

Thats what i think is happening.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10181 XPFeb-08-2017 4:21 PM

The Biggest thing to remember is that FOX own the Franchise, not Ridley Scott.

If Fox want to take it to the level that the Engineers stole the Tools of creation or Xeno from the Predators and that infected Predator Female + Engineer Elder = First Xeno Queen.

And Ridley is like No F-ing way....  but FOX 100% want this, then well Ridley would have to try and get along with it or get replaced by someone else.

I think however Fox is trusting Ridleys Vision on this, that could change depending on how AC does.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ati

PraetorianMember3378 XPFeb-08-2017 4:25 PM

-Why does Ridley keep changing his mind?

-Because he can.

(Full stop)

:)

suwhited

FacehuggerMember355 XPFeb-08-2017 4:59 PM

In my line of work, we have to continually balance between artistic license and operational realities.  In many case, operational realities win out so we pull out our crayons and color (with a smile...) just like we are told. 

I think this is a perfect example of that...Fox is willing to to give Ridley some latitude but the bottom line is to generate a movie that the Fox executives think will succeed at the box office. They are in the business to make money.

If the film can be the required solution to all the fans of the franchise while raking in sums of money...that's just great. The producers want fans to like a film. However, If producers see a film that is providing the answers fans of the franchise are looking for but not be a potential box office success..that is not good and changes will be made. 

At this point directors pull out their crayons and color just like they are told or they take their Crayolas and go somewhere else. Even ones as respected as Ridley fall into the framework of operational realities..

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPFeb-09-2017 2:49 AM

If you watch The Furious Gods Jon Spaihts actually says that it was the Fox execs who decided to dial back on the Xenos and bring in Damon Lindelof...so not Ridleys call.

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

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