Alien: Covenant

"Eggmorphing"...can we PLEASE put that concept to death????

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Starlogger

ChestbursterMember907 XPJan-23-2017 7:41 PM

What a load of crock. I'm tired of hearing about it. It's weak, stupid, and without merit.

If there's something I'm missing with the concept, please...enlighten me. Otherwise it is just a damn stupid escape mechanism.

112 Responses to "Eggmorphing"...can we PLEASE put that concept to death????

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-25-2017 10:00 AM

that's why both forms make sense. the species is the perfect organism. even when obliterated down to the last xeno the species can thrive again over time through egg morphing. the queen makes sense when there is an abundance of hosts such as hadleys hope or on a planet. eggs r mass produced which makes the queen relevant, but where there is such a limited number of hosts, such as the nostromo, a lone xeno using the egg morphing form makes more sense. morphs the 7 crew members and then either dies or goes into hibernation. the eggs can survive for lengthy periods of time till disturbed and thus replenishes the species. makes the species so much harder to kill. where only the queen method is suggested, the species is vulnerable. kill the queen and the hive dies.

QueenElizabethShaw

ChestbursterMember554 XPJan-25-2017 10:50 AM

Starlogger


Would you be open to changing the topic of this thread to

"Can we please stop trying to do away with the queen or egg morphing and let the concepts co-exist as two sides of the same horrific coin?"

I'm honestly tired of the desire to put either concept to rest. As anyone can probably infer from my user name and sig, I'm a big fan of the Queen.

That being said I do see where egg morphing adds depth to the horror of the organism (assuming it's as many have stated "the option for procreation in limited cir***stances").

The only thing I find obnoxious about the talk of egg morphing on this forum are the advocates of the concept who have been or become Queen haters.

Do we need to see the Queen in AC? Not at all. Can we have her origin explained? I don't see why it'd hurt.

Queen haters need to get over it while at the same time, Queen fans should stop seeing egg morphing as a threat to the Queen concept. To much time and brain power is being wasted trying to have a "this or that" argument

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-25-2017 11:12 AM

well said. the truth of it all is both forms exist and there is absolutely no reason why they both cant remain. ridleys' concept was the eggmorph. aliens came out before the directors cut so Cameron came up with the queen concept which ridley liked, but that doesn't mean the egg morphing idea doesn't have any traction within the xeno life cycle depending on cir***stance. egg morphing in my opinion, is more horrifying than the queen. to actually be captured and physically altered by a foreign species while alive sends a shiver down the spine. it also, as iv said many times, makes the species as a whole harder to eradicate but the queen also makes sense as a way to bring order to a large hive and produce eggs on mass for planetary situations. keep them both is what im saying.

Neomorph

ChestbursterMember739 XPJan-25-2017 12:02 PM

QueenElizabethShaw

I don't see hate anywhere, maybe people have different opinions? 

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-25-2017 12:35 PM

for me both aspects work. the queen is the goal for the lone xeno though some situations don't require a queen such as the limited number of hosts on the nostromo. the lone xeno uses egg morphing to start with until a more sustainable source becomes available then the queen is required as she can quick produce on mass the required number of eggs which would take egg morphing a lot longer to accomplish. but in the event of the queens death and the destruction of the hive, egg morphing kicks back in to sustain the species. I don't see any hate, just people with different views and all equally valued. I just think having both forms of reproduction makes for an almost undestructable species/ infestation 

Cosmic panda

OvomorphMember43 XPJan-25-2017 12:35 PM

eww lol

パンダ

Starlogger

ChestbursterMember907 XPJan-25-2017 1:30 PM

@Dirtymeat @dk I've seen EVERY deleted scene. I'm well aware of them. I just think it's a damned stupid concept, and makes ZERO sense. May as well say "let's just turn this pup tent into a chicken" because we are too lazy to think out a better story.

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-25-2017 1:44 PM

I wouldn't say it was lazy in any way, its an original and horrifying concept

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-25-2017 1:46 PM

the egg morphing concept also ties the xenos origins to the black goo in Prometheus

Myrddin365

FacehuggerMember425 XPJan-25-2017 3:22 PM

I agree ali81. I think the goo came from the Xeno, not the other way around. The engineers just got it wrong when they tried to reverse engineer it.

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-25-2017 3:48 PM

I just really hope ridley sticks to the concept that theres a long history between the engineers and the xeno and we delve into that past indepth, that's what most fans have been waiting to see for more than 30 years

Myrddin365

FacehuggerMember425 XPJan-25-2017 4:16 PM

@ali81. Couldn't agree more

Safe? Of course he isn't safe, but he's good!

Id

OvomorphMember89 XPJan-25-2017 9:26 PM

whats egg morphing?

MuzzleNZ

FacehuggerMember163 XPJan-25-2017 9:58 PM

Egg morphing makes sense - the name is the problem. Think of it as parasitic metamorphosis. Essentially, a person is infected and 'broken down' into another state (with a specific purpose) - very similar to what the black goo does - and I don't hear people moaning about that.

I'd also point out, the Deacon really would not have fit inside the Engineer in Prometheus, so that, to me, is more of an issue than the concept of egg-metamorphosis. Also, from what I've seen, it looks reasonably unrealistic that a Neomorph of the size it appears to be could fit inside the crew member in the AC trailer, and they could show little indication that it's in there. And don't get me started on the 'back bursting' through the spine. Not really anatomically feasible. However, I suspend disbelief because I am entertained.

As QES said, so much effort is expended debating stuff, that at the end of the day, is make believe. Ridley can do whatever the hell he chooses, and I for one hope he does.

 

Tiago_miami_la

FacehuggerMember236 XPJan-25-2017 10:32 PM

Simple fact...

How can you fit eggmorphing in a scene...if the process takes time how would it be effective in a scene...you coudnt see the body being transformed into a egg...you would have to see it by phases..its not effective on screen! Would you enjoy watch a accelarated scene of the body being transformed into a egg while xenos look at it? Not to mention different xeno categories...warrior can be a drone? Drone can be a warrior?

Eggmorphing done by a xeno to a person..changing the subject into a egg would mean...1 x 2... 2x2....4x4....16x16 and so on...why the hell would they need a queen for as it produces eggs?

Xenos collect subjects queen produces eggs facehuggers for them..

Same principle as ants bees. If you put eggmorphing into it must be on another morph neo or deacon..as we dont know how they reproduce,in the xeno the nature of what they are and how they are presented cant be eggmorph. Specially we have ac right there and i dont see eggmorph possible in the way of xeno converting people into eggs. No way.

 

Also some guys praise ridley too much,i bet even him doesnt know what hes doing yet and how he wants to keep telling the story.proof? Watch every single interview in chronological fashion like i did and you take the conclusions.

I dont know why but i been gettin the feeling that personally i will be very disapointed at ac..its smelling like a money grabber alien fan movie...not for the hardcore universe who wants real substance..i will love it but i will be disapointed. I dont trust ridley at all,its his story but i dont think he will tell the story we want to hear in general.

 

MuzzleNZ

FacehuggerMember163 XPJan-25-2017 11:17 PM

@Tiago_miami_la - you regularly refer to 'fan boy movie' in your posts, but your comment above actually suggest you are a fan of James Cameron's take on the Alien concept. There is room for both JCs take and Ridley's original Alien direction. This is after all Ridley's movie, as was Prometheus, as was Alien (that started it all).

Nothing, at all, about egg-morphing equates to 'fan boy' or 'money grabbing'. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but essentially you're saying if AC doesn't contain what you, personally, think it should, then Ridley, and many of us who disagree with you, are wrong.

I hope there's enough in AC for everyone - as long as there's no time travelling I'll be happy.

Movie fan

FacehuggerMember500 XPJan-26-2017 5:57 AM

@ QueenElizabethShaw

Well said, we should try to connect the two concepts together.

egg morph-queen-drone-egg morph.

Obsession is a Power, not a Curse ;)

QueenElizabethShaw

ChestbursterMember554 XPJan-26-2017 7:01 AM

Neomorph

I should have chosen my words more carefully. I didn't intend to convey the idea of actual hate. I was using the word in the same context of "hatin" or "hater" meaning downplaying.

I have no problem with people having different opinions which was the point of my post. I like the queen method more than the egg morphing method but I don't think people should stop talking about egg morphing or entertaining the idea. It's not my preference but it's close enough to canon that I believe it should be taken seriously.

My main point was that instead of arguing about which is better, why not accept they are both pretty much part of the canon and then from there, have a discussion about the different ways we could see the two given their place in the cycle, and furthermore what kinds of possibilities are born out of allowing egg morphing a place in the cycle.

Having a conversation about what kinds of situations or story points morphing opens doors to (without insisting it should have been used instead of the queen method) just seems like it would yield more interesting discussions than arguing about which method should have the spotlight.

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-26-2017 7:15 AM

egg morphing scene could be done easily imo. in alien, I think ridley could have done it differently without having to leave out the brett/ dallas egg scene for a directors cut. after the xeno grans dallas we cut to the parker/ ripley/ lambert scene, after they have talked and parker takes off to refuel the flame unit, we cut to the depths of the nostromo where the xeno has dallas. we see it doing whatever it does to start the process then the camera moves on brett, who has already started the morphing process and it would be clear to all what was going to happen to dallas, no?

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPJan-26-2017 7:47 AM

Its a Question of personal opinion really

As far as 100% canon... maybe the Egg Morph has to be thrown out as much as the Elder (frail old) Engineers.

Where we just have to accept these things will only be Canon if they are explored in future movies... which i think they will but in a re-designed way... (Elders and Egg Morph)

The idea makes sense as far as Egg Morph, but the way it appeared in Alien was flawed a bit... horrific but larger and i did not like the way it looked....  Maybe if they Head Morph.. i.e just need a Head and Morph that would explain the size difference.

The only other logical ways are if the Egg Morph creates a Larger Queen Face Huger... But then its how does such a Large Face Hugger infect Ripley between Aliens and Alien 3

But then once a colony/hive is set up there may be other ways to create a Queen....  If we take this route... then i would have gone for the Egg Morph route to produce a Proto-Queen right from the Egg (no Face Huger)

I think we need to look at the Xenomorph as being a Organism that can adapt to environments... and its procreation fitting this and so a Egg Morph would work.

I dont want to get into detail about Bees, Wasps, Ants and Termites as far as Procreation...

But if the Xenos follow some of those traits... it makes sense..

But if a worker/drone Bee or Ant or normal Termite and Wasp are the only survivors of a hive... then if this lone insect is the last of its kind.... then there would be no more...

The same would be with the Xenomorph if we go for Aliens route and ignore the Egg Morph..... if there are no more Eggs and only one Xeno Warrior left or Drone... how does this procreate?

Surely a more perfect Organism and Species would have a Plan B?

This is where the Egg Morph fits.

Not saying they will go this route.. but i think they would go for something similar...  and it seemed Alien 5 was also going to touch upon some Egg Morph kind of Scene...

Be it a Egg Morph or some other related Transformation of a Human to something that fits in with the Alien Procreation.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-26-2017 8:03 AM

dave

remember the size of the egg is about 3ft which when u think of the average human sitting with theyr legs tugged into theyr chest isnt that far off. some give and take can be given. I just find the cocept of both forms coexisting makes for the species being so much more horrifying as u can never be sure if uv fully wiped them out. even 1 lone drone missed can repopulate the species making them the near perfect organism

Aorta

FacehuggerMember316 XPJan-26-2017 10:59 AM

Both Ridley and Giger were unhappy with the Eggmorph props, and Giger lamented that he wished he could have had some time to work on it. These were Fiberglas enclosures meant to fit a human being and not well thought out and it shows. 

In the editing room it was found that the scene also hobbled the pacing in the 3rd act and I read also in an interview (I think on Strange Shapes) that some found it to be a step too far in the horror aspect (remember, this was 1978) and so it was excised.

A similar scene could be done now, it could be less than a minute long and tell you all you need to know, and be utterly anxiety inducing and nauseating, and enrich the Morb mythology.

I think, when considering Morb biology, that one needs to leave nature out of it. There's a possibility it was once a natural lifeform that has since been re-engineered to function as a source of bioterrorism, and that certain traits were genetically programmed rather than evolved. I believe at the very least that logic must be discarded, that was the original intent with Alien.

I don't hate the queen, when I was a boy I was quite taken with it, but my tastes have changed over time and I find Cameron's aesthetic jarring in the context of the Alien universe (Remember, Cameron also wanted Arnold Schwarzenegger in an Alien movie). That's a personal observation, not a superior one. I just know what I like and, for me, It's Ridley's vision. I'll happily go on praising him just as I would praise any artist I'm partial to and thankful for. Why shouldn't I?

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-26-2017 11:09 AM

 the reason for dropping the egg chamber scene in alien was a valid one due to the pace of the act but could possibly have been put in at an earlier stage such as the one I suggested after parker went for more fuel as this wouldnt have done anything to the pace of the moment. id keep both personally  

MuzzleNZ

FacehuggerMember163 XPJan-26-2017 11:09 AM

@Aorta "That's a personal observation, not a superior one" - well said - nice one! I've appreciated reading your posts, this one exemplifies your learned, pragmatic and balanced approach.

The way one or two other members talk on here, I sometimes wonder why we're getting a new film, given they already 'know' all about what will and 'absolutely' won't happen, and how Ridley has 'no idea' what he's doing. I suspect they're tapping those comments out on their keyboards while they're waiting for a call to close their own multi-million dollar movie deals........

 

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-26-2017 11:14 AM

I don't really see anywhere that suggests anyone believes RS doesn't know what hes doing, other than the bashing Prometheus gets from some but that seems aimed more at the writer. there r one or 2 stuck in theyr own ways but that's the beauty of it all, everyone entitled to theyr own opinions and theories and it opens others up to rethinking theyr own thoughts. I for one signed my own multi-million dollar deal for alien vs I.T

MuzzleNZ

FacehuggerMember163 XPJan-26-2017 11:34 AM

@ali81 - I'm not referring to you at all. 11 comments up from this one....

QueenElizabethShaw

ChestbursterMember554 XPJan-26-2017 11:46 AM

MuzzleNZ

"The way one or two other members talk on here, I sometimes wonder why we're getting a new film, given they already 'know' all about what will and 'absolutely' won't happen"

I've experienced this kind of reaction on the forum as well. It can be frustrating when someone digs their heels into the ground on something they can't really prove or disprove with finality. That being said, I think ali81 nailed it well.

"that's the beauty of it all, everyone entitled to theyr own opinions and theories and it opens others up to rethinking theyr own thoughts."

I've experienced this too. Encountering the people who take a "I've already got it figured out" mindset have forced me to explore alternatives to my own ideas and has generally served as food for thought.

The only downside is when you get someone who is so attached to an idea, that no matter what part of it you question, there is pre-disposed rejection instead of an actual conversation. The other toxic force I've encountered are those who push ideas that contradict Ridley's canon and refuse to confront the unlikelihood of Ridley undermining that. (I should mention that when I say "Ridley's canon" I refer to the films he has publicly expressed his love for. Basically the first two movies.)


Aorta

"I don't hate the queen, when I was a boy I was quite taken with it, but my tastes have changed over time and I find Cameron's aesthetic jarring in the context of the Alien universe"


In spite of the fact that I'm a fan of the queen to this day, I can sympathize with your change of heart. I should probably specify that when I say I'm a fan of the Queen, I am talking about the Queen of Aliens. I mention this because I found Resurrection's and AVP's depictions of the Queen to be an insult to her.

Resurrection gave her human qualities which (while there was an intentional point to that) really rubbed me the wrong way. It felt like it detracted from what was achieved in her concept with Aliens. In AVP she was completely CGI and you saw way too much of her (and for way too long). For me that watered her down.

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPJan-26-2017 11:57 AM

Leaving my personal preferences aside, whatever path Sir Ridley chooses for Covenant will be fine with me.

I still have the greatest confidence in him, and I suspect that he will pull off an amazing film which will successfully combine the aesthetic of ALIEN with that of PROMETHEUS.

ps I appreciate and love hearing everyones opinions and ideas, that's one of the things which makes this site such a wonderful place to inhabit.

To any new members who I haven't interacted with yet....

Welcome aboard, it's good to have you all here! 

 

 

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

Id

OvomorphMember89 XPJan-26-2017 1:07 PM

now i get egg morphing. Man oh man is that a freaky idea. I'm sad now it isn't a thing. it's like when I spider cocoons its victim to turn it into a jelly donut. except way worse. if they use it in the movie it's sure to make lotsa people uncomfortable for days. THREE CHEERS FOR EGG MORPHING!

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-26-2017 1:10 PM

putting sarcasm aside for a moment id I think that's the point of the egg morphing concept, takes the viewer out theyr comfort zone

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