Alien: Covenant

Let's Just Clear A Couple Things Up....

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RedXeno428

OvomorphMember53 XPDec-04-2016 11:07 AM

Hey guys, I've really appreciated getting to talk with a lot of you about the franchise and upcoming film. I'm so excited to be scared senseless come May, and I just can't wait!

HOWEVER

 

There are a few things I've seen going around that have caught my attention that have been topics of debate that I really don't see the need to be topics of debate. So here's just a few things I have based on educated guesswork and released information.

 

1. The Space Jockey IS an Engineer. Prometheus confirmed this in the scene where the Engineer sits in the pilot seat. They aren't "related" and they aren't "similar." They are the same species. The term "Space Jockey" was simply the nicknamed coined by the production team on Alien because they didn't have it's backstory all written out and determined. This was a topic of debate on here, and I just wanted to clear that up.

 

2. The xeno on the poster IS the Big Guy. Ridley Scott confirmed that we would get the classic life cycle in the film. We also have confirmation on the Neomorphs (Belugamorphs XD) from the pictures that got taken down. I find it hard to believe that we will be getting a THIRD beast to worry about (technically, it would be more than the third, considering that the description of the Neomorphs implies that there will be more than one). I think that that is indeed the classic Big Chap.

 

Just a couple things I thought I'd bring to the table for you guys. Feel free to disagree. I'd be happy to listen to you! I just thought I would give my two cents

 

Have a wonderful day!

 

P.S.

I am REALLY going to miss seeing the Deacon. I was disappointed when they confirmed that he wouldn't be appearing in Covenant. It's such a chilling beast, and I'm sad they won't be exploring it.

11 Responses to Let's Just Clear A Couple Things Up....

BigDave

DeaconMember10416 XPDec-04-2016 5:13 PM

Indeed its going to be interesting to see what we get... i will clear a few things up... but dont worry thats not to try and discredit what you said.. everyone has a opinion... so i hope i dont come across as being offensive ;)

"1) The Space Jockey IS an Engineer"

Yes to start with that was the idea.... we had the concept for 15ft Engineers, that was then redone to be 12ft... and also had Elders that were also again Engineers just older versions... The Tale was these beings Engineers are Ancient Advanced Humanoids who create life and who Ancient Man interpreted as Gods...

After Prometheus was shot... it seems they have a change of Plan... gone where the Elders (they was not as Awe inspiring as Gods should be... and they did not want to meet God in the first movie).

The Engineer Scenes got edited, cut down and some re-shot to basically portray the Engineers as Angry basically Bio-logical Terminators.

They realized the error in size of the Derelict/Juggernaught the slight Aesthetic differences and size in the Engineers, it appears now we are going to be shown a Hierarchy of Godlike beings... the Engineers are now just maybe as David is to Mankind...

We could now be dealing more with multiple layers of Hierarchy that is at least TWO Castes in size... Engineers.... and who ever created them.... or at least who ever they may have conflicted with.

We cant be sure if we are seeing a God/Angels (Annunaki/Igigi) Hierarchy or a Titans/Olympians or even a Æsir/Vanir kind of one.

But it cant be ruled out that the Space Jockey and Engineer are not the same Race.... regardless i think they are related... the Space Jockey is either

a) A Engineer

b) Being above the Engineers or creators of them.

c) Being created by the creators of the Engineers, either prior, or around same time or after the Engineers.

d) A being created by some interaction of the Engineers and another Race.... i.e Nephilim

or then again... they could be another un-related Ancient Race... who maybe are still Humanoid to a degree... who interacted with the Engineers... maybe subjected them or was subjected by them..... Who knows..

I think there has to be a Genetic Connection well a connection... its not going to be like how Separate and unconnected Humans and say Predators are.

I dont think.... and hope the Space Jockey is not a Human or Android from Prometheus or Covenant Missions.

 

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10416 XPDec-04-2016 5:23 PM

"2. The xeno on the poster IS the Big Guy. Ridley"

I think as far as the Money Shot... indeed... like the Deacon was the Money Shot in Prometheus.... many fans hoped Prometheus would show more Xeno DNA....  the trailer and Mural in it maybe led them to think so...

But all they got was the Black Goo was related somehow... it created 3 events.... 1) Hammerpedes from Worms... 2) Toxic Avenger Fifield.. alternative ideas more Xeno DNA.. and then 3 the Money Shot in Two parts.... a event that led to Shaw giving Birth to a Squid Baby that Grew to some kind of Face Hugger and then the Deacon..

It would have been like Alien being more drawn out movie... and ended right after the Chest Buster Scene....

Fans expected more... from the Chest Buster event and other clues in Prometheus..

Alien Covenant is teasing more... i think Fans are expecting to see the Poster Xeno or even Original one to be in the movie a lot... maybe it will be...

I have a feeling its the evolutionary result at the end of the movie.. i am going to make a Topic to cover it.. soon.

I think yes we will see Egg, Face Huger and Chest Buster.. but then the Xeno's i think may be not quite as Bio-Mechanical as the poster.... i think another event at the end would lead to the more Bio-Mechanical Monster but who knows...

The Neomorph leak... well that if correct shows we are dealing with more than One Monster....  i see you are new to the site.. and while it can only be taken as pinch of salt.... i was told by a Source way prior to Alien Covenant when it was quiet and at the time Ridley said they was working on a sequel.. they had no plans for when.. but he said the Beast was Cooked etc... well this Source gave a lot of information on what the at time Micheal Green Final Draft was about...... and they claimed we would see TWO Xeno related Monsters...

So yes i think its possible.... the source however is not official and so it could be completely fabricated.... but the same can be said about the Spores, and Neomorphs leak too.

The only Official mention of Neomorph was Fassbender in relation to Kanes Chest Buster....   that Chest Buster was a Young version of the Xeno... a New-born Xeno.

And Neo means just that... Young/New

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10416 XPDec-04-2016 5:31 PM

i will cover the Belugamorphs on the other thread Neomorphs...

But indeed i think they are holding stuff back and we could be seeing a bit of misdirection here.....

We did see those leaked Props and Artwork... but i dont think they had any Take Down Notices.... here is the thing... if FOX requested them to be taken down... they would still remain they cant remove them all.... anyone who has downloaded them could re-upload.

And any TAKE DOWN request would certainly validate them... and so prove more of a Spoiler... at the moment it can be passed off as some work in progress stuff... that may not make it to the movie.

Like these from Prometheus..

Nevermind countless Concept works... that never got used.

Thats not to say however those Alien Covenant ones will not appear.... we cant be sure.... i think the Face Huger and Egg will appear for certain.

I think the Trailers may give a bit more clues... i hope they are not too spoilery though.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

S.M

XenomorphMember1234 XPDec-04-2016 5:47 PM

Nothing is going to be 'cleared up' until the film comes out.

BigDave

DeaconMember10416 XPDec-04-2016 6:37 PM

Indeed all we can do is speculate... i get what you mean SM by clearing up stuff would be when the movie is out and seen and then we can clear up a few things we have seen that we have not got to grips with or understood..

Not much as far as Alien side we can clear up so to speak apart from...

1) at some point we would be seeing Egg (or Eggs), Face Huggers, Chest Busters and the Big Guy.... but we cant guarantee these would be the same as in Alien but no doubt we would see something very similar at some point.

2) there are going to be multiple Chest Buster Scenes... Fassbender confirmed Aliens will be Bursting out all over the place... hints to more than a few and so anything from 3 upwards but i doubt it would be a high % unless its a flash back scene as well we dont know how big the Covenant Crew is and well we need some to be killed by the Adult Xenos... some to survive and some to maybe die by other means.

3) Again multiple accounts of Aliens as mentioned by McBride and Ejogo.... again this means more than 1-2 but we cant say how many in total.... i would assume we are not going to see a Aliens movie here.... and so we can speculate only on the number of Aliens... but there is more than a few by the sounds of it.

But as far as how these things come to be... how many different kinds well a lot is all based on leaks that have not been confirmed and leaked or maybe not so Concept/Prop work which again as i said regarding Prometheus... sometimes a lot of stuff gets designed and built/sculpted that is never used in the movie.

So all we know is there are a number of Aliens... at some point we will see Eggs, and full Alien Life Cycle including multiple Chest Buster type events and Aliens... but we dont know how many types of Aliens... only that One kind at the very least would appear similar to the Xenomorph..

Is this the threat for the most part.. or the final one in the movie... i.e Poster... is that what they are all like? We just dont know for sure.

But 6 Months will soon pass by and we would all find out ;)

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

RedXeno428

OvomorphMember53 XPDec-04-2016 8:41 PM

You bring up some good points! Thanks for replying! Anyways, I just was wondering about some of your points. If the "Space Jockey" was a higher form/race, why would he humble himself to a lowly pilot that crash landed on a foreign world? There seems to be no indication in the movie forthright about any caste system, though I didn't see the mural very closely so what do I know.

 

Man I REALLY want the "Neomorph" to be a thing. That description could be fake but where the heck did it come from? As for Fassbender's comments, "Neomorph" is the term he was using to refer to the original Alien in Alien. However, I'm pretty sure I DID see on this forum that Fox DID in fact request those pictures be taken down.

 

Who really knows? They are keeping us in the dark, as they should, and we can only wait to see. I'm still holding out hope for some Deacon action and the Belugamorphs (Man, we've got to get that trending if they end up being confirmed!). It would be a shame if this turned into another Alien clone, and all this hype was for nothing.

BigDave

DeaconMember10416 XPDec-05-2016 7:35 AM

Not sure on the request.....

Chris would know about such a thing.

Update.... just checked the Original Source.... the soisitanygood.com website.... and where the images was they have had a images taken down at request of 20th century Fox.

Here is the thing though.... there is no Secret that we are going to see Egg, Face Hugger, Chest Buster and Big Chap.... Ridley said so... and maybe they may not be exactly the same as in Alien Franchise... but we would see those stages...  also members of Cast had said about Multiple Aliens and Chest Busters and so again.. its no Secret.... lately they gave us the poster too that has a Xenomorph.

So the Take Down Request must be that there was some elements used in those images that are going to be part of the movie and evolutionary process or a different one... that is not linked to the Xeno.

or they could be playing Double Bluff......  leak photos that are not going to be used... with some objects/props that are but are no secret (Eggs, Face Huger) then request them to be taken down.... would then get the Public to think hang on those other things must be 100% in the movie then..... so it could be a double bluff red herring if you know what i mean?

I would say instead of visually... that any actual plot leak would be more detrimental to giving the movie away..... so if the AVP Galaxy... Spore back burster leaks are true... then surely this would be information that FOX would want to have removed.....

But again in requesting this.. if it was true would only confirm it to be likely...

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10416 XPDec-05-2016 7:39 AM

"There seems to be no indication in the movie forthright about any caste system"

Indeed there is none.... yes we have the Biblical references.. and these Engineers are who we interpreted as Gods... Biblical Accounts have a Caste System.... so does the Greek and indeed most other God Accounts....

This however visually or in any other way has not been shown in any concrete way at all......

Its only looking at the edit of the movie... removal of the Elders and then Ridleys comments on those things and the Engineers (Fallen Angels) and his other comments over the years that seem to hint at maybe a Caste System.....

This does not mean the Space Jockey and Engineers are not the same though.... but it does hint that the Engineers are not the all powerful and most advanced creative beings in the Galaxy.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

RedXeno428

OvomorphMember53 XPDec-05-2016 9:59 AM

Yes but it seems that the ones who created the Engineers (maybe we see them, maybe we don't) wouldn't be around to fly one random engineer ship and crash land. I find it more likely (and less convoluted) to just say that the Space Jockey was just another Engineer. I get what your saying that it could be something more, something higher, but by given information, it just seems more likely to be an engineer. Maybe one of a hierarchy (like the "Elders" you mentioned) but still an Engineer.

BigDave

DeaconMember10416 XPDec-05-2016 4:26 PM

Oh yes i forgot but was meant to cover that part...

"If the "Space Jockey" was a higher form/race, why would he humble himself to a lowly pilot that crash landed on a foreign world?"

I think this is something that has Evolved over time....

Originally the Space Jockey was a Alien Lifeform in a Space Suit (could been humanoid.. Gigers concepts showed this) who for some reason had that Cargo and was going to some destination... but he had been infected by the Cargo and had to then crash land on LV-426 and let of a Warning to his fellow Race to stay away.. a Benevolent Act? but in regards for whom?

Ridley expanded upon this... over the years, so we had it that the Space Jockey was carrying Bio-Weapons, and got infected by the Cargo.....  he then went further after Prometheus by saying the Space Jockey was carrying those Bio-Weapons to a undisclosed location.. but did not get Far before he was infected (or found out he was) and then he had to Quarantine the Cargo and headed to LV-426 but he got Chest Busted as the ship was trying to Land...  

He went even further to say the event happened within a few hundred years of the Outbreak on LV-223 that killed those Engineers and that something Evolved in the Cargo Hold.

I have a theory on it all... that i touched upon before and was meant to do a Topic on it... but someone has done one recently in "how it all connects to Alien" so i may do a in depth reply there... but my Topic was going to be "the Ultimate Space Jockey Conclusion"

So it appears as of prior to Alien Covenant... the Space Jockey Cargo was likely related what ever happened on LV-223, he had set off with a Bio-Weapon too and it had evolved and infected him... he set down on LV-426 and set off the Beacon... maybe to Warn the Engineers on LV-223

The Space Jockey was maybe thus carrying Bio-Weapons made on LV-233.... it was a very interesting Topic to debate and i had a few theories..... But since Ridley Scott REVEALED... the event happened between 1800-2200 years ago.. and the Space Jockey did not get Far... and his Cargo Evolved...

This seems to be to be very related to the LV-223 Experiments.

HOWEVER.....

Now they may be changing things, and it does not matter What Ridley said about the Event... if its not shown that way on Film... it can be changed...

And so i am not so sure where they could go now...

Wayne Haag seems to claim those LV-223 Engineers, but he could mean Engineers in General..... had found or stolen their Technology...    if so from whom?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10416 XPDec-05-2016 4:41 PM

I will in nutshell try give my two cents.... theories on the Space Jockey (prior to Covenant) from what Ridley had said and what we have been shown in Alien/Prometheus.

The Space Jockey had either...

1) Been part of a Race who was creating some Bio-Weapon, it had evolved in a way UN-predicted and infected the Space Jockey who crash lands on near by LV-426 and sets off a Warning......  this event happened few hundred years prior to the Outbreak on LV-223....   The Engineers then went back to the drawing board.... or they recovered the Organism from LV-426 and Experimented on it and Re-Weaponized it but a outbreak saw them off 200 years latter.

(there are many variables to this... like forks to this theory.. i.e was the Space Jockey going to LV-426 to deal with the Engineers, or Earth from LV-426 or to Paradise from LV-426).

2) The Space Jockey was part of the same group of Engineers that suffered the Outbreak.... like the Last Engineer he had got to the Cryo-Sleep Pods.... during or prior to the $^$&% really hit the fan......

The Last Engineer was awoken by the Prometheus Crew... he overslept..... his other 3 comrades where not so lucky (they was indeed Chest Busted).

The Space Jockey maybe likewise was not so lucky and was either infected unknowingly, or he knew he was infected but went to Cryo-sleep to sleep it out... 

He awoke 200 years after the Outbreak.... (how much he knew of it is unknown... the same can be said for the Last Engineer) and off the Space Jockey went... but it was not long before he was Chest Busted...

The Space Jockey suffered the same fate as those other Engineers who was chest busted in their Cryo-Pods in Prometheus.

Whats interesting is the Evolved Cargo.... maybe the Cargo after or due to the Outbreak evolved... or something in the Cargo (Urns) had got contaminated by something.. that caused something to Evolve... get to the Space Jockey and maybe then get down into the Cargo Hold and Evolve the Urns? to Eggs?

We cant rule out the Space Jockey coming from the other Temple mounds and maybe the Cargo was different to the Urns too?

==========================

Supporting evidence to this is Spaights draft, it was set on LV-426 and the Last Engineer was infected prior to going into Cryo-Sleep.... his other comrades did not contain the infection and got Chest Busted....

The Last Engineer however was ok... until he was awoken and this process then meant the infection would not start to grow and so the awaking of the Engineer had condemned him to the fate of his Chest Busted Comrades... but he attempted to try to carry on the mission to Earth in the hope he was not so far gone (Gestation of the Ultramorph) but he was too far gone and Chest Busted soon after take off.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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