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Gods, Engineers and Xenos

Gods, Engineers and Xenos

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Starbeast

OvomorphMember4 XPDec-03-2016 11:16 AM

Watching Prometheus the religious aspects of the plot I think was pretty evident. I think it is quite nice that Ridley Scott goes in that direction with the Alien franchise since there are many interesting aspects to explore, and he is very good at those types av movies.

Anyway, being interested in religion and mystiscm I came across the word "Tetramorph" which is a type of beast in heaven that guards the throne of God for example. The proper word for this beast is Cherubim. It comes in different variations, but it is always 4 (tetra) beings morphed together in a unnatural way. One tetramorph has for instance the head of a man, the head of a lion, an eagle and then a mechanical with silvery teeth... See what I'm getting at :) If the Enginners are the creators of Man and made us in their image, maybe what's in the Bible came from them originally and has been passed down through millennia. However all the stuff thats there is true and this particular beast does exists -  the familiar Xenomorph. The Xeno is surley a mix of everything, mechanical yet biological. The original HR Giger biomechanoid monsters had female underjaws with elongated heads that at the end became a mans penis etc etc. 

I think this is an intriguing concept to explore and would fit nicely into the grand myth of Alien. 

What do you think?

Oh, by the way, now the Space Jockey only being a suit and so on, but I always believed that the original Space Jockey being elephantine was the hindu god Ganesha. Would also fit into the ancient aliens theory that Prometheus was exploring.

16 Responses to Gods, Engineers and Xenos

RedXeno428

OvomorphMember53 XPDec-03-2016 10:42 PM

I get where you're going with this and I know that Prometheus had some religious parallels, however, I think that's a BIT of a stretch concerning the Xeno. I get that "morph" is present in both, but I don't think that Ridley had it initially named "Xenomorph." I think that name didn't come around until Aliens

Joe Covenant

OvomorphMember12 XPDec-04-2016 4:16 AM

It is an interesting thought, and a nice theory to tie-into. But from one of the two original designs for the ALIEN temple 'mural' the creatures were more looking to be wearing an actual helmet of sorts, rather than it being a mecha-biological feature.
And as RedXeno428 says, the word Xenomorph was not used until ALIENS (And even then, it was only used as a catch-all description of the fact that it was a creature which changed form... NOT a name for the species.)

I gotta say I hate with a passion that the 'X'-word gets used quite a lot to describe the ALIEN itself...

Hey-ho.  :(

Batchpool

FacehuggerMember357 XPDec-05-2016 3:50 PM

I don’t know if you have taken a close examination of the Covenant’s crew logo, but it is loosely based on Ark of Covenant designs which links in to the cherubim. The Ark of he Covenant was believed to hold the rod of Aaron, that being the staff that Moses had that turned into a serpent. I think that there is a possibility that Alien Covenant could touch on this biblical background. I’m wondering if the Covenant (the spacecraft) is carrying something that is a powerhouse for creating life and involved someway with the evolution of the Xenomorphs/Neomorphs. I do not believe that the cherubim connection is an accident, and why is the crew logo design based on it?

RedXeno428

OvomorphMember53 XPDec-05-2016 4:07 PM

Maybe it's an 'Ark' in the sense that it is looking for a new world to populate? But instead provides the "mechanical" side of the bio-mechanical monster that is the Alien.

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPDec-05-2016 5:19 PM

Indeed there was some links to Biblical Events... but also other Mythos too.... each Religion and Fable does have some features that are similar...  Say there are 10 common themes... one Fable/Faith may share 3, another 5 another 6 and another 6 and the two that share 6 are not the same 6 but are some of the 10 themes.... (this is not saying there are 10).  Just that each Fable/Faith do have some connections... not all share the same but they share some as explained above.

The Serpent/Dragon is one very common theme... and Eagle or similar is also very prominent.

As far as the Cherubim yes we get many descriptions of them and we are not talking the small child like ones with wings LOL

some accounts they are depicted with multiple heads... common ones are Eagle/Bird... Lion/Tiger and Serpent/Dragon.... the same traits that the Greek Chimera has only that Cherubim also have a Human Head too... sometimes Horse and/or Bull too.

In context of the Ark... it has been covered a bit above by Batchpool.... as far as the Cherubim that are on the Ark... the Ark Contains the 10 Commandments of God and the Rod of Aron (Moses Staff)

But i will address the Cherubim in another context and one that the Covenant Badge maybe imply.... yes these Cherubim  are the same depicted as on the Ark..... but the Covenant Badge they are around a Planet...

Cherubim in a main Biblical context are a caste of Angels that are the Guards to the Garden of Eden that is located in Paradise.

I think its in this context they would play a Role... Paradise in the Franchise... must have been a very important place, as far as the Hierarchy of Creation...  and so perhaps it was Guarded by a Caste of beings of great power and importance at one time.

Maybe their Role... and where they are now could be explored?

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPDec-05-2016 5:30 PM

I know that the Source i had should not be taken as 100% Correct....

But they did say the movie as far as Prometheus 2 (which they claimed would been called either Paradise Lost... or Pandemonium which was the working Two Titles for Paglen/Green Draft.

They claimed it would loosely touch upon connecting themes in many cultures and religions and not just Biblical and Greek but that many other cultures do have connecting themes to Biblical and Greek and its this common ground and themes that are loosely going to be what the Franchise is based off.

They said in context to Paradise Lost.... its the Punishment sent to Satan and his Fallen Angels that turned some into Serpents that connect to the Xenomorph and in the same context without Sin there would be no Xenomorph.....  they was vague... but hey could mean Sin as in to go against Gods Command and Rule and the result is Punishment..

Or maybe they mean as far as Paradise Lost and Sin being Satans Daughter born from his head.... who is constantly in labor giving birth to Serpentine looking Hounds of Hell who Guard the Gates off Hell .. her punishment is having her Entrails Torn by these Beasts as they are Gestating inside her...

Sin is Part Female/Serpent and is very much described the same as Echidna  who is the Greek Mother of Monsters and she is mother to Many Monsters.... included Hell Hounds like the sometimes Serpentine Hound Cerberus who guards the Gates of Hades (Hell) Cerberus is a 3 headed Hound sometimes with Serpent features or followed by Serpents.  Echidna  is also mother of the Gorgons and also the very Eagle that was sent to Punish Prometheus..

So there is a connection we could make between Sin/Echidna  and even Loki can be connected in someway too with Prometheus/Satan and his Off Spring too which is a Wolf/Hound, a Serpent and a Female.

So indeed there are connections.... and i think the Source was hinting that these Serpent/Hound Off Spring and Punishment/Transformations are connected to the Xeno or Black Goo...

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Batchpool

FacehuggerMember357 XPDec-05-2016 5:34 PM

Sometimes the simplest answer can be the best way forward. This may not be the most exciting biblical connection, but it does make sense. In order to make Xenomorphs it helps if you have some humans. Maybe this is the all important cargo that the Covenant is carrying. It is the crew. After all humans do hold the power of life and death. Prometheus, did suffer from presenting possibly too many questions, and perhaps the tone of Covenant is more straight forward. It did also go through a name change. Rather than looking for complex connections, and hidden meanings that maybe a bit too deep, Covenant is presenting itself as a straight forward, straight to the point movie in general.

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPDec-05-2016 5:44 PM

Satans Daughter Sin...

Echidna Greek Mother of Monsters

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPDec-05-2016 5:59 PM

Batchpool....

Exactly... i think they was going for a Bold and Broad concept and ideas... this is why so many re-writes they just could not figure out how to fit it all in...

And so a back to basics approach may be best and maybe this is what they have done?

Its interesting with the Human Connection... because the Source did say that for one Mankind had been to that System prior to Prometheus... and that Mankinds role in the Xenomorph is more than the Engineers... again they was vague...   and also that Mankind as of now is the 4th/5th Generation of our kind... and that Biblical events had occurred in a way but not as in context to our Generation... they also said in same context about that Mankind did not evolve from Apes as in the Theory of Evolution but from Engineers or the Engineers was part of that line... and so hinted we could see Flash backs of previous incarnations of Mankind.

And that the Gods can alter climates and effect worlds to cause Floods, Ice ages and other disasters and these are just some of the means the Hierarchy use to Wipe the slate clean and start again (to create one must first destroy) and the Hierarchy have done this a number of times.

This information was passed on way before Alien Covenant... and at a time when Alien 5 concept started to come out and when Ridley said that Prometheus 2 is planned and it would go away from Alien.. no more beasts its cooked... no more Gods and Dragons...

The Source claimed that actually its very much Gods/Dragons based off the Draft as of October 2014...

But again who knows about the Source....  time will tell.. but they also mentioned about Production Time... Shooting Dates, Production Cost Projected, Release Date Projected and at what point concept wise they was as of November to Feb 2014-2015.  And also that from November 2015 that information and big news would start to begin...  all this i passed on in early March 2015...... and so i was a bit on the fence with it.. but as time goes on things added up.... Wayne Haags interview especially.

Then after the supposed Weyland and David leak where David performs Entrance of the Gods into Valhalla i was not really upto date with Norse Mythos etc.. so i looked into it..

And other things such as other Fables, in Norse Mythos and even the Story of Ragnarok and these Fables seemed to match a Lot of what the Source says.....   Ragnarok tale especially... as it also tells of Punishment War, Death of the Gods... the Flooding of the World to start a new with the surviving two of the last generation of Mankind placed on the New Earth... to start a new... they was not the first Generation..

But who knows...

I think even if this was kind of correct.. we dont know how much Alien Covenant has changed from the early drafts.

6 Months we find out... and boy i hope we can get a leak of some of the earlier Drafts like we had with Spaights and Lindeloffs.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Shasta cyclone

FacehuggerMember281 XPDec-06-2016 6:48 AM

has it been brought up that the engineers could be the nephilim or the watchers?

It would definitely add to the story if they go towards a biblical sense, at least a little for direction. 

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPDec-06-2016 7:08 AM

Officially?

Nope.... in Spaights draft i think....  one of the crew (Holloway) mentions a quote from the Bible.. upon finding the Engineers "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that"

This is a Biblical reference from Genesis 6:4 in which is attributed to the Nephilim where the Giants are a result of when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men... Sons of God in this context may be Angels...

As far as discussions on here then yes a number of times it has been mentioned....  mainly pertains to what happens if Engineers procreate or mix their DNA with Female Humans... could the result be the Space Jockey?

But it could work just the same as if another Race higher  up than the Engineers interbred with Mankind or earlier versions daughters to bring about the Space Jockey and Engineers...

Problems with this theory is that well... if the Engineer Sacrifice at the start was a means that leads to Life on Earth and Mankind.. or other places... but a long long time ago.. it means the Engineers Predate Mankind... all evidence in Prometheus was intended to point to this.

Also the Space Jockey looks more Ancient than even the Engineers and Wayne Haag had hinted that the Engineers persay obtained their Technology from something else that was Ancient and they may have found/stolen it and re-engineered this.

If his comments are to be taken likely it could hint the Engineers and Technology (Juggernaughts) Black Goo... are stolen and reverse engineered from the Space Jockey.  Which would rule out maybe the Nephilim theory.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Trevorl314

OvomorphMember16 XPJan-31-2017 8:01 AM

To understand the Engineers we can look at the story of the Annunaki, presented by Zecharia Sitchen. 

According to Sitchen's interpretation of the Sumerian tablets, the Annunaki came from a different planet to Earth in search for gold. Their atmosphere was dying and they needed gold to repair it. For a while the Annunaki did the hard labor of mining the gold. They discovered primitive man and decided to upgrade him to a point that he could do the work for them. One of the Annunaki scientists, Enki, decided to upgrade humans a bit more, and the other Annunaki didn't like this. Once they had their gold they were ready to leave the planet. They knew that a deluge (flood) would happen and wanted to let humans die in it. Enki and crew decided to warn humans so they might be saved. Ultimately, the Annunaki decided to let humans continue on. 

This story is very similar to other ancient myths, including that of Prometheus the Titan. I think it's also the basis for many of the Biblical stories. The flood story in Genesis is predated by the Sumerian's Epic of Gilgamesh. Adam (Adapu in Sumerian) was the first creation of the Annunaki - the new man. 

The Annunaki are the gods, the creators of humanity. Enki is Prometheus. He took fire from the gods and gave it to man. Like the Annunaki, the Engineers didn't create humans from scratch. They genetically engineered them from existing primates. That's what happened in Prometheus. The Engineers upgraded primates on Earth. The question is, for what reason? Were humans going to be used for something? Holloway tells David that humans created him because they could. David responds that it would be disappointing for humans to hear that their creators did the same thing. Perhaps the Engineers are merely playing around with the black substance to see what they can do. They're scientists. Humans are nothing more than lab rats.

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPJan-31-2017 11:15 PM

it didn't look like anything was being upgraded in the opening scene to me. to me, they were simply seeding earth with theyr dna so that a sentient race, born from them, would grow. for what reason, hopefully we will find out. if they were upgrading a primate, then a primate would have been in the opening scene or it would have been apparent this was what they were doing. I don't think ridley has gone for such a hidden message, I think its as straight forward as they seeded earth with theyr dna. the whole prequel trilogy is going to be religion based but from my take, ridley is saying science is our creator. science and religion r in constant conflict as many scientific breakthroughs seem to disprove religious claims. for the black goo? it gives life. it may have been engineered into different forms but the end result is the same. it kills the engineer but sprouts life on a planetary scale. it also creates a new form of life when it infects other species. the engineers r using science to play god (oh the irony) but eventually they will have to pay the price for this error

Shasta cyclone

FacehuggerMember281 XPFeb-01-2017 6:05 AM

as far as a story line I think science and religion can both play a big part together in the movie complimenting each other. IMO it makes it more interesting and scifi.

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPFeb-01-2017 6:08 AM

so do I, think that's exactly what ridley is going for

BigDave

DeaconMember10324 XPFeb-01-2017 6:30 AM

@Trevorl314

Indeed for the most part i also think something like this is what we are seeing..

The event was as ali81 said.... either the method to start building blocks of life or a way to cause the Catalyst to allow for basic life to evolve to complex.

Ridley Scott said the Engineers came back over and over, upgrading us Genetically and Technologically

As far as Stitching work some of it can be a bit inaccurate, its open to interpretation as the one Creation Element was that using Clay and Blood of a Sacrificed God (either Annunaki or Igigi) they created Mankind.

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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