Elizabeth's curiousity

I have a feeling the Miss Shaw we saw in Prom is now, for all intents and purposes, gone.

What remains though I can only guess further at! :) 

Deep Space: I hope so, her character in Prometheus sucks.

lol, I have noticed you're not exactly her no.1 fan ;) 

I disagree, in that I thought her character, with David & Janek, were some of the better things in Prom.  But, as I have said elsewhere, they weren't written/presented as well as they could have been.

I think what you see in AC might just give you a warm fuzzy feeling all over he he!!

Deep Space:

The thing is, I can't stand people that have less common sense than a sandwich. Some reasons why I think she sucks:

Her guess that it was an invitation

They (the Engineers) made us

No weapons, I mean how does she know that there won't be any hostile life forms there?

Even in the end of the movie she says like "I deserve to know why" and even then she says that they made us. How stupid can she possibly get? What is it that says that she deserves to know why? Is that her given right?! That is seriously some stupid shit.

David and Janek were those two characters that I think worked well in the movie the rest were just bad or not interesting.

'I can't stand people that have less common sense than a sandwich'

lol!  Sounds like a lot of renowned scientists, from what I hear  . . . maybe they got her bang on ;)

@Hawley

I would say the biggest challenge of continuity is to redirect Elizabeth in a believable way. We leave her resilient, surviving and in charge and yet most of us believe she is a plot point in Covenant. For me the best transition would be the biggest one possible she like the Engineers has fallen. To Ripleyise her at the end would conflict her with Daniels.

I think she will play into David's ascendancy because that makes David more hateful and places the audience more on the side of the Coventee's thats where we will be rooting and Shaw can build that allegiance by her horrific treatment by David as well as act as a plot point as the now fertile mother.    

@Hawley

This is a good question. Unfortunately I am not too happy with current reveals about the new Alien Covenant film.

The fact that Scott is pandering to the audience by creating a ship that looks retro, in analog switches similar to the ship in the first Alien movie, makes a bold statement. Scott is then saying publicly this newest movie will have the original Alien in it and it will be a hard R.

Ok let us all take a deep breath and back up a little. When Scott discussed his big departure from the entire Alien universe to make Prometheus he stated that the Alien creature would not be in it. He then went on to make a big deal about how the Alien is done been played out and cannot scare audiences anymore. Ok to be a bit more fair he did not get to make the movie he really wanted to make with Prometheus and had he then possibly we would all be having much different discussions about these films.

Now Scott is asking audiences to come right back to the same plot elements from the original Alien movie including a retro style ship.

You asked about Dr. Shaws’ character in AC and what role she may have. At this point Hawley it might not make much of a difference because of the non sense we are all starting to understand about Alien Covenant.

Hawley in my most honest and humble opinion Shaw and David are being recycled into the new movie purely to make the audience from Prometheus want to go see this thing.

This is how show business makes a product and not a great work of art.

Scott may be ultimately reacting to forces beyond his control…an audience that truly wants to know where the xenomorph comes from. The studio may have pressured Scott to do this to Alien Covenant.  We will all find out for sure when the movie opens.

Ash to Ripley, Lambert, Parker, ”You still don’t understand what your dealing with, do you?”
“A perfect organism.”
“Its structural perfection is only matched by its hostility”.

Lambert to Ash, “You admire it.”

Ash, “I admire its purity…A survivor…unclouded by conscience…remorse or delusions of morality.”

Ash, “Last word”.

Ash, “I can’t lie to you about your chances, but…you have my sympathies”.

@Redant

I am sure everyone here is aware that the financial gymnastics of this movie make it a tentpole and that has a collateral impact on the making of the art. It is to what degree that compromise affects the more than cursory audience enjoyment and reaction to these films. 

That Ridley made such a thought provoking  pre equal in that context, which to use his words "is pretty good" is a minor miracle. I personally believe he was getting in his stride and Fox were curiously genuinely worried about the "not another Xeno film". I think some decisions, leaving aside Lindelof's story telling style, were an ill advised over reaction and lead to a certain lack of cohesion. However we now know that lesson has been learned and they are at ease with the franchises relationship with the Xeno.

I also find it heartening that Ridley's remains of the view (FEB 2016) that "The beast is cooked" and to bring the strain into the film requires some really telling questions to be answered to make it interesting.

Curiously I watched the Assembly Cut of A 3 last night and what comes over very strongly to me is the ALIEN in that film is more than ever Ripley. I think retold with tweaks it is an excellent and fitting end to Ripley and the theme of heroic redemption is powerfully told. But here is the key, to me the grunge, atmosphere and the OX Zeno were mere texture. So it is possible to tell a really good story and the Xeno be a recurring motif without being entirely central which brings me on to two points I actually disagree with you about.

David is going to be at the core of this film, he is not there for continuity he will drive the twin themes of an action packed film with big ideas.

I also find you being upset with the style of the ship worth exploring. We have had the commercial towing vehicle, the high tech Nam copters and the glorious clean no expense spared vision of Prometheus. The nature of the Covenant maybe a plot driver indeed other things suggest it helps characterise the philosophy of the crew.

Finally and what makes the film doubly intriguing is for the first time since Vincent Ward's proposed vision (curiously a New Zealand film maker) we are going to see an entirely different back drop that suggests active decision making within the troping.

I have said it before the cast are already bigging up the Xeno connection this is because outside of  hyperactive fandom it would appear with Prom people did not make the connection that the film which was to include the Space Jockey room was an A L I E N film. You really have to sympathise sometimes with marketing departments, there is so much information out there nobody is actually affected or taking note of it.

AC could be a hunk of junk I am a life long Tolkien fan and admirer, with reservations, of Jacksons first films. I have all six editions of the Hobbit in my book case, and thats where they will stay, if they were not gifts I would put them in a charity shop !               

@Michelle

You are correct about Scott Michelle. Scott is an incredible film maker and was dealt a very undeserving decision from the studios for the budget cuts to Prometheus.

I am waiting patiently and holding out on sentiments that may be too harsh about Alien Covenant before I see the film. As with you I want to enjoy AC for its arch in the entire plot stemming all these years back to the original Alien movie.

My comments to Hawley were hopefully taken in a tone of pure analytical bias. This is show business and it is not known for equality and fair play.

As for you my dear you should know better and be true as well.

Scott’s experimental divergence and then return to all the Xeno Alien qualities, even down to look and feel of the Nostromo is a mistake.

To be fair from what I have seen so far it appears that they have done a fine job artistically bridging the enormous gulf between these two films. Here is the last contradiction I might like to refute just for the sake of discussion.

If they show this space ship with a faster than light speed capability, traveling to the far reaches of the galaxy with too many cathode ray tube monitors, analog this that and the other…I might just not care about any of this anymore.

These are not stylistic whims mind you and Scott should know better than all of us that this is not good story telling.

@redant

Perhaps you're nit-picking the fly shit here.  What kind of switches they put on some fake panel to represent a spaceship is a very small part of the movie for me.  Hardly the deal-breaker you make it out to be. 

You seem to be something close to a ridley hater?  I happen to like the fact that he is going back and trying to reconnect the Alien franchise with a logical chain of events, adding these prequels to the mix.  I don't know why that would be such artistic sin?

Sure, you are spot-on about hollyweird, and all the "game of thrones" intrigue, back-stabbing, and just general bullshit that goes on in that arena.  Truth is, yeah, Fox and the investors get a vote.  That Ridley might have to change directions, either by choice or edict is just part of the deal.  I don't see why we should cast him into the outer darkness for it. 

All in all, I can't wait for A:C to come out.  Yeah we may see some return to the creature feature, but hopefully also find out about it's origins as well.       

@Diz

I am calling this one as I see it. These are major reversals in what has been a questionable start for this new reboot to this franchise.

Scott was saying that audiences would not want any more hard core Xeno scares.

However, to be fair I want to add that in movie making we should also never underestimate Scotts’ genius at blending these things all together. My hope is that he is able to show us something quite new and more relevant.

I was really amazed by Prometheus and not for its plot. No for the special effects, I thought the reanimation of the cleaved Engineers head was the finest work done in Science fiction movie history. There were some other noteworthy scenes that were transcendentally powerful for me. I enjoyed the scene with the holography in the dream sequence when David is interpolating Dr. Shaw’s’ neuronal net as a young child speaking with her father. Also, the cruising of the ship into orbit was exceptional as well. I do really truly enjoy these films. There are other scenes equally as important and perhaps we shall get a very good film for this next installment.

@Redant

Ridley believes that thinking people believe "the beast is cooked" and yet based on the reaction to Prometheus ambiguity, the fan reaction to A5 he recognises that the big ideas of Prometheus have to be prosecuted within an A L I E N construct rather than a P R O M E T H E U S construct.

Note

Watching Alien a few nights back I recognised more than ever how audacious Prometheus was it really does take the same universe but serve it up in an entirely different way. On reflection for me the only time he tries to Sellotape the two values together is in the Fifield action scene and I am more convinced than ever he should have opted to big up the A L I E N echo use the original design and placed the attack in the corridors on the way to the Juggernaut keeping it dark and uncertain but building up the A L I E N forboding before the Engineer is woken up.           

But back to my point he is 77 years old he reads the runes and reacts accordingly.

If he can sell Covenant as a Xeno film but offer a Prom 2 in terms of ideas I am good to go and thank him for not turning the franchise into some esoteric transcendence vibe.

@redant

Hey I hear ya, there have been some major changes in direction for A:C already; I'm not so excited about another creature feature myself.  I would prefer a more cerebral presentation such as Prometheus.  And yeah if you want to hold these guys to everything they say, including Sir Scott, you could say they're all talking shite. 

That being said, I think you have to allow for people to "think out loud" and explore options, without being married to every concept you express.

So yeah, the movie you get may not resemble the comments these guys make in interviews.  It's not so linear.

You have this group of "share-holders" who are trying to effect the course of the film.  Does the artist get the last say, or the investors?  Or the movie execs?  There's your rub.  A guy might send out a test shot of his views in an interview, hoping the execs will see the reaction to it and go his way.  Or not. 

So yeah, the guy may say one thing, and the movie does another.  Hey, nature of the beast. 

@Diz

What is a "creature feature". I have watched Alien   SE and Alien 3 SE in recent days and I was struck by the symmetrical nature of the films. In fact much of the tension was actually between the crew. Towards the end of both films third act a plan is conceived to "get the m.f." which gives you the climax and release. I suspect ALIENS and A R which I haven't yet watched in this recent run through are more C.F. The sheer numbers and length of the stand off make it a C. F. If we are going to get two  A L I E N's with a very strong sense of connection to their origin I think A C may feel more like A and A3 where the difference to Prometheus will come is in the pacing and that maybe more to do with the film knowing exactly what it is without losing its thought provoking notions. It will interesting to see the length of the cut in that regard.