Was David effected by the Black Goo?6,236 Views28 RepliesAdd A Reply
One thing that I've been wondering, we've all assumed that the black goo did not infect David because he is synthetic. But what if it did? What might be the reaction of an android to this toxic mix? We all believe he infected Holloway with no ill effects to himself. But what if there was? What if the mix was absorbed through his "skin" layers, and into his "bloodstream"?
Although there appear to be no effects, well other than getting his head ripped off, you have to wonder if it wouldn't effect a synthetic in some way.
What I'm thinking of here is the mention of Alien biology, in the books/comic books which state they have some kind of polymer or synthetic make-up to their system, which allows them to tolerate their acid make-up.
What if instead of metallic components, as we assumed with Giger's creations, this was in fact polymer based materials? Or perhaps even a combination of both polymer and metal.
So depending on the make-up of synthetic persons, could their tolerance of this acid based substance be somehow used to allow a fusion between synthetic and organic materials? And would this allow David to somehow evolve past his programming into self-actualization?
Might this be a key point in A:C?
We cant be sure.... i think the premise was that the Black Goo and Sacrificial Goo had a purpose to manipulate and effect Genetic Material and so David 8 is Synthetic he cant be infected.
When i saw Prometheus trailers and trying to see how this can be a Alien Prequel i did wander if they are going to show us David (Pinocchio) wanted to become Human (Boy) and using Engineers Technology he became Part Organic and Part Synthetic but this left him open to be infected by Shaws Baby.... This is what produced the Xenomorph..
After seeing Prometheus (prior one Trailer Shot with Davids Head) this theory was proven wrong.
Can David be infected? I dont know... maybe he is resilient and so it takes more than having the Goo on his Finger...
We also have no confirmed way to sugest that a small amount of the Goo from the Ampoule on a Human Finger would caused the effects we see that happened to Fifield, Shaw/Holloway or indeed Hammerpedes.
The Derelict seemed more Organic than the Juggernaught and so maybe the Black Goo can manipulate Synthetic Material if enough is exposed?
I HAVE A HUNCH!
That Davids Brown Haired Doppelganger on the Covenant is not a Synthetic like David but a Synthetic Construct like Elden in the Fire and Stone Comics...
And i think maybe HE (doppelganger) gets infected?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Yeah I think this is a fascinating track to follow, because the assumption was that a synthetic is totally immune to all effects. But what if they aren't? What if their synthetic nature allows them to tolerate the exposure to black goo, where it would melt and distort pure organic, but allow them to assimilate it in someway, and transcend to another level?
Could AI become organic or at least hybrid structure? This is the question in a lot of sci-fi; bridging this gap between organic and synthetic; the combination of traits to produce the "perfect organism".
Again the assumption that synthetic would not be affected. And yes, the singe drop on the finger may not be enough. But, what if there is enough genetic component in the goo to fill the gaps and meld with synthetic?
We are returning to the Giger-esque nature of the beast. Seemingly half machine, half animal. In order to support a system of acid-based chems, you'd need materials impervious to their effects. Like polymers or metals.
It would seem that an artificial person would have these things in abundance, so...
How do we get from here, to there?
Ah that is surely THE question for the prequels!
I almost don't want to speculate too much in-case we get it right, lol! I like the idea of 'a' David getting infected - that would be awesome to see! I also like the idea of using some Giger style machines/organisms along with the goo to facilitate this.
I reckon that if it's not via David's physical form then it will be through Shaw's. I have a feeling that her hibernation en route to Paradise may have already led to some of the changes . . .
Sheesh - here's a theory: Shaw gets altered through her interaction with Engineer tech (we saw how the Eng in Prom looked kind of bio-mechanical himself - or certainly that the suit 'meshed' with the organic parts) Perhaps this happens to Shaw and is then subsequently infected with goo . . .
This then leads to either a bio-mechanical/mutated Shaw (like Fifield but mechanical)or a bio-mechanical facehugger type creature again (or something like that).
Possibly crazy talk but I'm a bit all over the place today! :) (apologies to MJ if I have stolen yours or anyone else's ideas there!)
Hmmm, interesting direction here. You know, that's entirely plausible since a) we share the same DNA as engineers, and b) that might just be what they had in mind for us.
So yeah, an infected Shaw is definitely in the mix.
And the mechanical suits the engineers were wearing. Hmmm. Exoskeleton, anyone?
Thanks Diz, I think you've convinced me i'm not going crazy(er) ;)
Definitely could be exoskeleton of some sort - the Deacon did seem to tear through it quite easily though but who knows . . .
b) yes, excellent point. Perhaps the goo was to help facilitate our evolution but not necessarily into the Xeno or related entity, as we are more led to believe in Prom?
I'd be disappointed if it had any effect on synthetic material. That would really interfere with the suspension of disbelief for me.
I am inclined to believe that the liquid is an intelligent form of nanotechnology, in which case yes all it would need is elements and DNA blueprints to work its magic. But then, if it could infect David, it could infect, say, a hot water bottle.
But who knows, I imagine there is some genetic material in David, I just tend to think he wears it more than inhabits it. It's fun to imagine that he's the first MORB, and he could be, but then we also have to wonder where the Facehuggers etc. fit in. My vote is that the liquid only works on organic material.
Good point Aorta; at what point would you draw the line on "inanimate" objects.
This goes right to the heart of the matter concerning androids. Are they just ones and zeroes or do they transcend that and possess something akin to sentience? Is this "self-awareness" or dare I say "soul" only inherent in organic beings, or, could it be in something synthetically created? Could the goo actually be what separates animals from sentient beings? If so, what would happen if a synthetic was exposed to it?
That's the key question. If you take the DNA contained in the goo, and combine it with synthetic materials, do you get the morb?
Yes these are all good questions....
As far as the effect on Synthetics it would certainly be a way to explain the Part Synthetic Part Organic Look of the Xenomorph
Ultimately is this the case? we just cant be sure, its fun to speculate though.... however David is not the only Synthetic..
Engineers Suits are Synthetic to a degree... they are Bio-Mechanical, is this something borrowed from Re-Engineer the Xenomorphs?
Or is the Xenomorphs a result of infecting or the Goo infecting the Engineers in their Suits?
We see Two kinds of Suits, the under pressure suit... which has holes in that we can assume connects to maybe the Space Jockey suit or Pilot Space Jockey Suits... or any number of Engineer Technologies?
These are not Exoskeletons though... as the Engineer inside is a living organism that has its own structure.... it would however be like a Exoskeleton type Material that fits like a Bio-Mechanical Suit of Armour.
The Pressure suit is bonded to the Engineers, like as if say we had the ability to make clothes from Snake/Crocodile Skin... that when worn the Clothing bonds to us and instead of us wearing Snake Skin Pants, Boots and Jackets... its a ALL-IN-ONE Snake Skin Jumpsuit that when worn it attaches to you and acts just as the Skin did on the Snake it was taken off.
Would a Engineer like this be infected, maybe if he is infected by a lot of the Goo...
But we have to ask what the purpose of these suits are... especially the Space Jockey suits... if these suits did nothing to protect them from the Goo then what was the point in them?
For piloting the ship... or like a Space Suit to Humans and to survive in Space?
There are a number of clues, that seem to suggest there is more of a use for the suits and also nope it appears maybe they are not affected by the Black Goo..
I can explain but its a long story lol
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I tend to look at these issues thematically and leave the film makers to join up the dots (or is that re organise them).
I think Ridley has worked out you need a moral relativism in the "quite a complex story"
So Creations (Engineers/AI) rebel against their defined purpose and attempt to sub create. The sub creations from the fresco creature through the Deacon to the Zenomorph lead to pain and punishment. The sub created creatures inflict pain on their creators and the collateral consequences create retribution. The sub creators only seem capable of creating negative creationism this is the moral relativism of the story.
The Zenomorph is a weapon and its moral relativism is described perfectly by Ash to Ripley. It like A I at the time of A L I E N is not bounded by conscience or moral constructs. The Alien is an artificial construct which is more like an amendment/reconstruction of A I. The Deacon is a biological construct which is more like an amendment/reconstruction of mankind.
So David, doing his post graduate thesis on playing god, has acquired the knowledge and tools to pursue the amendment/reconstruction of A. I.
He creates a "new event" whilst Elizabeth is tricked into producing more existing ones.
The science division of Weyland Yutani have a sense of ownership of the intellectual capital for A. I. certainly the A. I. they have created. I suspect hidden deep in the bowls of their knowledge base, redacted to all but a few, is the knowledge that their technology got entwined with an Alien technology and when Ash reports to mother whats going down Kanes throat and incubating in his body they cry bingo, we have the mother …..
How David becomes the big idea, how Elizabeth is tricked and whether David Covenant is being "born again" as part of all this we can discuss in about 345 days. I like Lone have every confidence that Ridley will present us with a "beautiful" experience to look at and the fact that all are "at peace" with the creatures involvement will lead to a story with a greater sense of self and pace.
PS Oh Yes to answer Dis's question I am certain David is infected/affected by the goo technology it has to be the catalyser for the big idea why overcomplicate one of the strands of the plot, how it will differ is his interaction however it goes down is consensual - he wants it he is looking to make it happen.
Wow you hit that one out of the park; that is exactly where I was going with all this; I just got caught up in the mechanical aspects of how it would happen.
You nailed the "big picture" aspect of all this. Between Shaw, David, and the cargo of goo, we have all the components here for xeno-sapiens.
Interesting point about it being consensual for David. He wants to change and evolve, just as the engineer at the beginning of Prometheus. He wants to be on equal footing with not only humans, but the gods.
"So David, doing his post-graduate thesis on playing god, has acquired the knowledge and tools to pursue the amendment/reconstruction of A.I."
Nice turn of words there btw.
Also interesting point about some creations only possessing the evil side of our nature. They can only begat evil as it were. How true. This seems to be the case in amongst the homo-sapien tribes as well.
And we're back to the Science Division of W-Y. The infamous D-15.
Kinda sad really, if David thinks he's off on his own little quest here, only to be corralled by D-15 once he creates his offspring. But it might be interesting to see who zooms who here. David is the master of passive aggression. By day, mild mannered man-servant, by night, mad AI creating the ultimate being.
But I have a feeling that NEXT LAYER is going to be a *****. Who said man is just an angry lump of clay, shaking his fist at God. As David BYRNES might say: "Same as it ever was..."
How can he get infected if he isn't even an organic life-form? Sorry but the whole thing seems absurd to me. I can understand if robots can be made to be more like humans but I don't think that it is possible to get that far.
If we say that he is like a terminator, half human and half robot then the human side of him might get affected but not the robotic side so to speak. This probably wouldn't work in reality.
But that's the whole point here; how do we get to that bridge between organic life and AI? This has been a huge topic in sci-fi. We don't know the specific mechanism, as yet, but the alien story might present one possible scenario.
I mean I agree, as we stand here today, I don't have a friggin clue as to how that may happen, but, I like to explore the possibilities.
If you took someone, such as my grandfather, and Oklahoma cowboy, at the turn of the last century, and told him what life would look like today, he would throw the bull**** flag as well.
What life might look like 100 years from now is anybody's guess. Technology so alien to us might be commonplace by then. Even the combination of organic and synthetic lifeforms.
Again, if you lived on the edge of the prairie, in a tar paper shack, with no electricity, or running water, and someone described to you how most people live today, you would probably not be able to comprehend it.
I think that technological development is interesting too but I don't see how you can get that far. Of course it is interesting to speculate but then the technology has got to react in a way that is biological (as far as getting infected by the black goo) and I really doubt if that would be possible.
As a person I am very skeptical and I am not sure how this could be possible.
And the whole human race hopes you're right my friend!
Yeah it's a big leap. But that's what sci-fi is all about. I remember reading Heinlein back in the 60's and thinking how far out that stuff sounded. Think of how far we've come since then. And how far we may be going.
In the 'We Are Walter" intro video, we are informed that human DNA is somehow used to make him (or maybe all synthetics). There is your key to how synths and xenos can combine ....
Think about this ...
If Weyland's DNA was used exclusively to make David, and then David somehow spawns a new xeno, then possibly future xenos will CONTAIN Weyland's DNA, and thus Weyland will be able to live forever, and David's mission will be a success.
That is some deep stuff! If that is the path for the films...I give you mad props-
Not sure why a synthetic would want to be part biological. That would introduce mortality into the equation, rendering them to be more like us (and we know from Prometheus that David doesn't want that). And as far as Weyland is concerned, my opinion was that he was narcissistic, and was focused on extending the life of his soul/mind/sense of self. So propogation of his DNA probably wasn't his key concern or he could have just had more children (or maybe cared more for the ones he already had).
David doesn't "want" anything. He's following his creator's (and DNA imprint) last mission, which is now his mission. If David simply "carries" Weyland's DNA, he can inject this into his experiments. Weyland's whole narcissistic view is what generated the story in the first place ..... the likelihood is that the engineers were doomed by the same feelings. David - unlike all other players in the game - has the chance to be the one and true Creator from outside of all this. He can create freely. He is not "involved" due to his special status as not necessarily "living"
For Weyland, children did not work out so well. In fact, he created a son because he despised his daughter. He was more pleased with his manufactured creation than his natural one, mostly due to the fact that he could EXIST more through David than Vickers. She just wanted him dead.
David may simply be on a harmless mission to follow his creators wish to keep him alive forever.
Remember, David of the biblical story was a hero. He was considered an ancestor of Jesus ... a new messiah. What if David reads the bible, then tries to figure out if Weyland meant this to be him? What if the bible was written knowing David would come? Please queue up the Twilight Zone music ...
I think David does have independent desires/wants, separate from his primary mission. For example, he wanted blonde hair and he wanted Shaw's crucifix.
Interesting angle on the biblical reference for David's name. He did defeat a giant. Would David see that story as a mandate to do the same with the current crop of giants (engineers)?
What if David drinks the black goo as a sacrificial moment, like the first engineer did in prometheus?
The black goo only infects organics. So, David was unaffected by it.
This is similar to how the Xenomorphs cannot use synthetics as hosts.
But we learned from the Walter video that DNA is combined into synthetics somehow. I would imagine David has at least some Weyland DNA, as clued by "closest thing to a son he will ever have". I'm thinking this may play a part in things. David's sacrifice would aide in helping Weyland "not die". Although David could simply extract and use the DNA from himself I would imagine too. Who knows?!
Yes indeed, we shall soon see just what David and Elizabeth ended up doing with the black goo.
Looking at the trailer, we see people approaching egg fields, with face-huggers ready to pounce. Was this pre-existing or something David and Shaw had a hand in?
I'm betting that David had something to do with that, but time will tell.