Alien: Covenant
Would the Deacon have Acid for Blood?

Would the Deacon have Acid for Blood?

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Deep Space

FacehuggerMember320 XPAug-16-2016 1:30 PM

Just reading the What WY know about . . . thread and this thought occurred:

If perhaps the 'original' ALIEN Xeno does indeed have acid for blood ( a quote from what I think was a game, but I may have read that/remembered wrong, on the thread mentioned above posted some doubt about this)- is this in part due to it being bio-mechanical?  I would guess so . . .

If that's the case, would the Deacon have acid for blood or more conventional mammalian blood?

Just got me thinking and thought it seemed an interesting one to ponder.  More exactly, I can't quite get my head around how the original Xeno had this trait (BioM) - it must have been deliberate and certainly more deadly, as a result, to it's 'hosts'!

So how do we get from Deacon to Bio Xeno?  I still lean towards the latter being created with, and for, humans - an improved model on the Deacon, perhaps?  

From the set images of AC it kind of looks to me like some of the 'burnt corpses' have slightly longer, thinner limbs and more elongated heads . . . sound familiar !? ;)  I think whatever 'got out' on Paradise either turned Engineers into Deacon like creatures, a-la Fifield, or they began to run riot like a plague after initial infections (which could have led to massive 'nuclear' type extinction protocols. Could be wrong there though ;) but I am enjoying trying to piece this all together - all your posts and ideas really set me off - thanks! :)

It's still not conclusive which type of Alien came first or indeed if the Zeno is, or was, perhaps an independently evolved life-form prior to Engineer discovery/genetic manipulation!  I'd wager it was from the goo and mankind/Engineers though.

Still, this Bio-Xeno origin is really bugging me and if I could work out if it didn't, say, have acid for blood then it perhaps sheds some light on the Bio-Xeno's origin and help tie up where this is all going . . .

Help, please :)

15 Responses to Would the Deacon have Acid for Blood?

Facehuggers

NeomorphMember1984 XPAug-16-2016 2:08 PM

Hmmm... Very interesting post Deep Space! 

You do bring a good point, since most of the hosts of the Deacon seem to not have acid blood. But the Hammerpede does, any connection? I don't know.

So this got me thinking:

One, could the acid blood have been genetically engineered into Aliens from Humans?

Two, could Android 'battery acid' get thrown in to the mix?

Three, could the Deacon species be completely separate from that in ALIEN?

Still I don't know, and this is a great post to discuss! Upvoted!

 

Deep Space

FacehuggerMember320 XPAug-16-2016 4:33 PM

Thanks Facehuggers!  :)

I'd completely forgot about the Hammerpede to be fair!  That said, they come about via direct contamination with Xeno 'strained' black goo (or something like that) as opposed to the Deacon which comes about via black goo, man, sex, woman, big squid, Engineer, Deacon - so a few more variables in the pot . . .  

Still, now that you mention it I would probably have to consider the black goo as being the main cause - the fact the hammerpede exhibited this is a big factor I think!  Which gets me back to square one, lol ;)

One, could the acid blood have been genetically engineered into Aliens from Humans?

Possibly, I really don't know!  If my above reasoning is somewhere close it suggests the black goo contains the DNA, if you like, for acid blood - but it's so complex and so many variables and permutations it's really hard to be sure of anything!  The origin of the goo being one and then the chicken and egg scenario of what came first:  Acid blood or Xeno? 

Two, could Android 'battery acid' get thrown in to the mix?

Ooh good idea!  I reckon it could.  As others have said (MJ, I think and possibly more) perhaps through David's shena****ns we get to see how the Xeno was created, through the back door, as it were.

Three, could the Deacon species be completely separate from that in ALIEN?

Yes and no, lol ;) At least to me!  I would say in DNA terms they are very similar so you could argue that means they aren't separate.   However, would they be exactly the same?  And if not, then you could argue they may very well be completely separate - hope that makes sense, i'm getting brain ache now! 

I would say they are connected however - I do think that the Deacon has been seen by Engineers before.  We know the Eng's had ALIEN eggs so they must have known what the cargo was (assumption, admittedly - and didn't Ridley say the cargo evolved?).   I have a feeling the ALIEN was created through or via the Deacon so for that to be true they can't be separate.

Still, it's is so hard to be certain of anything re. the origins of all things goo and Xeno I wouldn't hold any flags to the mast just yet! 

Diz

FacehuggerMember127 XPAug-17-2016 4:39 AM

Hmmm.  I think your "battery acid" analogy might have some possibilities.

Judging from the red tissue gums I would hazard to guess we have a similar blood to humans with this dude.  And the fact that he has "rounded corners"  or smoother, organic look, points towards more biological aspects. 

I think the mechanical aspects are still to come.  Via David?  Very good question.  Yeah, I believe it was MJ that pointed this out.

I'm not a doctor so don't hold me to this, but don't the blood cells originate in the bone marrow?  One theory might be that when you replace the organic skeleton with a metallic one, you might also be able to produce an acid type blood.  If you notice from a lot of the images, it appears that the bones or teeth are metallic.  So would it follow that a different blood chemistry could be produced, quite similar to a "battery acid". 

I'm not a chemist either so don't hold me to yet another theory, but, what chemical would this acid bring to the "muscles" to perform work?  It stands to reason, if they don't use oxygen like us, then another chemical component is used, that allows them to survive in extreme environments, even to hibernate for extended periods of time.

So then that begs the question, what do they eat?  I would hazard to guess that you be including some kind of minerals, (even petroleum products!) to support this unique blood chemistry.

But this I way above my paygrade.  Perhaps some scientist types can chime in here. 

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPAug-17-2016 7:23 AM

Indeed we dont know clearly what the Xenomorph Biology is like at a very detailed level and we also dont know 100% its Origins.

I will say the Hammerpedes had Acid for Blood... we cant not tell if this trait comes from the Worms though.. if so then are the Worms connected to the Xeno Origins?

A simple way is that the Worms that evolved into Hammerpedes did not have Acid Blood and its only after they had been evolved by the Xeno strand Goo that they obtained this trait.

The movie really was a mess as far as contradicting elements or simply not getting a back ground plot to how all this works and connects before they did the drafts.

We see no proof that Fifield had Acid Blood, we see none regarding the Trilobite Adult.... but if you watch in slow motion the Trilobite vs Engineer Scene... the Face Burn appears, disappears and appears etc.

I have a theory that maybe the original take on the shot was that the Trillobite caused the Burn on the Engineers Face... via Acid.

But no one has confirmed if thats the case, and the movie does not give a clear indication either way.

So as far as DEACON and Acid Blood goes.. there is not real evidence to support or disprove the possibility

I would assume it may have... or then if the Deacon inherited a lot of non-xeno traits such as only 5 digits like a Human and very Human Feet and Hands, and Enamel Teeth... then there is a chance the Acid Blood would not be passed on...

There is just no way to say either way.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Diz

FacehuggerMember127 XPAug-17-2016 7:59 AM

So true.

But, on the subject of acid blood.  Just how exactly might that work?  If you take a look at a battery, you have an acid solution that interacts with a metal plate, which produces an electric current, right?  So what if the acid blood reacts with the metallic bone structure and produces "energy" or some kind of electric current that stimulates the muscles? 

And the larger question is how close is this to android technology?  Are they metallic structure, covered in organic tissue, and if so, what kind of "blood" fluid, or current is circulated to facilitate movement and so forth?

I recall seeing David drinking something.  I don't know if that's for show, or what?

But judging from the red gums and enamel teeth, I'd say this dude has something similar to our blood.  And a lot of KY.

Deep Space

FacehuggerMember320 XPAug-17-2016 8:07 AM

Thanks, some good points there Diz and BD!

Yes, frustratingly this whole question of origins is rather 'bitty' and incoherent, with just enough clues to keep us guessing and making our theories . . . Hey, it's fun :) 

Re. what they eat - i'm guessing that they are able to utilise different aspects of organic matter for 'food'; perhaps converting this to inorganic materials?   (I have an educational background in chemistry and psychology but am in no way a scientist, nor do I utilise much of that knowledge in my day job - so make of my idea what you will  ;)   I think you make some good suggestions though, Diz!  Another related question, if a bit crass - does the Xeno defecate/urinate?  Would the Deaon?  The Xeno does use secretions for hive building and it must get the basic materials for this from somewhere, right?

 I have often wondered why they eat some humans but not others (I guess Hive forming etc is a big factor here) and what 'fuel' they got from humans . . .  

I have been starting to wonder if their 'raison d'etre' is to completely obliterate the human genome?!

@BD - I would go for the simpler option re. the black goo and acid for blood.  It's only a guess but the way the hammerpede scenes were put in Prom suggest to me that they were designed to make us see the Xeno connection - and thus its link to the black goo.

That said, the more 'organic' look of the Deacon does perhaps make me doubt that assumption, like yourselves!  

Deep Space

FacehuggerMember320 XPAug-17-2016 8:24 AM

I would also like to add here that in some way I hope that what we see in relation to Xeno origins is dark, mystifying and very 'off the wall'!  Ideally, using some Gigeresque bio-machinery and basically being something that makes me go 'Wow!' and hopefully wince and be repulsed at the same time!

I do think that David and his knowledge of Eng's culture and tech may be the one who (re)opens this door for us.

I do worry for Shaw though . . . poor lass!

Diz

FacehuggerMember127 XPAug-17-2016 8:35 AM

Taking a look at the classic zeno life cycle.  Let's say you have victims cacooned up for the big egg melt-down.  Now at this point you have the human DNA in the pot, but how do you introduce metallic building blocks and/or zeno DNA?  Evidently a face hugger has all the required ingredients to produce the big chap, asexually, in a host organism.  So what must be combined with a human to get the desired results?

This would seem to be the point where acid would be introduced.  So would the combination of certain acids, plus metallic ingredients, produce the basis for a bio-mechanical creature?  But then the final step is interesting.  It must be returned to a host organism to gestate into a little fella, and well, you know the rest.

So I think the acid and the metallic structure are very inter-connected here.  And think of the placenta.  There must be some kind of firewall to separate host blood from zeno.  Yet obviously fluid exchange is taking place, as human DNA is once again introduced into the mix. 

And that's about as far as my biology 101 gets me. 

But the upshot of all this is that zeno biology is much more complex than a "queen" merely laying an egg.  A complex stew is created in the egg sac, which creates a creature with a seed of the required DNA to produce a zeno. 

What's interesting is this is basically a walking penis to insert a seed into a host organism.  Forgive my crudity, but there it is. 

But what about the deacon?  If you think about it, the black goo was transmitted sexually from Holloway to Shaw.  Shaw was "barren" in biblical terms, so the black goo had to reproduce asexually, giving us a Tri.  The tri inserted seed into an engineer and created a deacon.  So what was missing here?  The step that added the metallic and acid.

It would seem the black goo is related to the zeno DNA, but it lacks the final ingredient that produces the acid blood.

Now here's the kicker.  At this stage if the engineers were playing around with this stuff, in a bid to replace themselves in the re-birthing cycle, I think this is where things might have gone side-ways.  You have a Tri, which my guess was used to re-introduce the seed to another human, and from there you got a much similar deacon.  The leap to zeno is still unclear.  Was it intervention by "the gods" as punishment?  If so was David somehow a part of that?

Yeah this could be a key in the leap from human to zeno.  Where is the acid blood introduced?              

Diz

FacehuggerMember127 XPAug-17-2016 8:47 AM

Yes good question, how do zenos eliminate waste products?  Exactly what are their waste products?

On a related note, what's up with all the secretions?  Perhaps they are both related.  Some kind of resin is created and secreted, as a waste product from whatever they eat.

So again what goes into some kind of "epoxy" resin?  A base and a catalyst of some sort.  The base could be some kind of organic material (from what source?  don't want to go there) and the catalyst some form of their acid saliva, which seems to be in plentiful supply. 

Yeah definitely something there.  Whether they drool or "poop" it out of some orifice.  They are basically a walking tube of 5-mintue epoxy.       

Diz

FacehuggerMember127 XPAug-17-2016 9:01 AM

Another good point on the hammerpede.  Evidently there is acid here.  Hmmm, the plot (or should I say pot) thickens.

Evidently, it cannot produce anything on it's own.  It popped back out of Milburn after doing whatever it was down in there.

But, what if this is the missing link?  If you take a hammerpede, and add it to an egg sac, along with human DNA, and a dash of black goo, would a facehugger emerge? 

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPAug-17-2016 12:08 PM

"What's interesting is this is basically a walking penis to insert a seed into a host organism.  Forgive my crudity, but there it is."

Thats how Giger would have seen it lol

If i ignore the Deacon for a bit... and concentrate on the Xeno Biology.

It appears the Acid was for Blood, and so i think it has a similar purpose... Blood  has a number of functions as well as to supply various nutrients and enzymes/ hormones   and then you have white blood cells but we concentrate on the Red Blood.

The major factor with Blood is to Pump Oxygen around the Body... from coming into the Lungs... transferred to Blood and Pumped via the Heart around the Body and to the Brain.

In terms of Mechanics its function is similar to maybe how electrical current in Mechanics travel around the wires etc.... but out body also produces its own electrical impulses.  It kind of also maybe can be classed as fuel... Blood also carries Glucose around the body if i am correct.

Regardless to simplify it, it would be safe to assume that the Xenomorph Blood performs the same function.... and that this stuff is needed to carry any essential nutrients, fuel around its body in order to function.

A Xeno also secrets Slimy Goo but this could just be like how we have Mucus and Saliva and it also secrets something else that it uses to build hive walls and cocoon hosts to walls etc.

But as far as Blood, yes i think it could function similar to why we have Blood, i think Androids Blood must also have a similar purpose... in that it is required to make its mechanical/synthetic parts operate.

As far as being connected to Mechanical and Metal... because of the Xeno Bio-Mechanics... maybe? 

And also maybe the Blood breaks down Genetic Material to use it to fuel the Xenomorph and release any nutrients or chemicals the Xenomorph requires...  Some speculate that could the Xeno Blood be the Origin of the Black Goo.... maybe its hard to tell.

However the Hammerpedes had Acid Blood too and they never looked in any part as having any Mechanical Look to them..... saying that a Face Huger does not look Bio-Mechanical either. The same with the Eggs.... the Chest Buster has a small amount of what we could call Metallic composition to its genetic structure and a Adult Xenomorph more so.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPAug-17-2016 12:23 PM

As far as the things Prometheus showed us... its very vague....  but a Sacrificial theme is going on, and the Mural has a Xeno related Organism in a Sacrificial pose... (because thats what the Christ Cruciform pose stands for... it relates to Sacrifice... as Jesus did on the Cross, but also its similar to Vitruvian Man, which represents Perfect Form).

If we take these and consider the Altar had Sacrificial Cup originally.. so did the concept work

Then my theory has been that the Engineers experimented on something related to the Xenomorph... and the result they was finally happy with was the Deacon Mural... at which point they used its DNA to seed and upgrade life instead... 

The Deacon in the Mural was Sacrificed via the same method as the Sacrificial Engineer only the resulting material was stored in the Urns.

Thus the Goo passes on the Mural Deacons DNA and evolves a organisms best genetic traits...

Engineer+ Sacrificial Goo ==> Evolution that contained Engineers DNA which led to Mankind.

Deacon in Mural + Sacrificial Goo ===> Black Goo in Urns that Evolves Organisms best traits and passes on the Deacons DNA (which is related to the Xenomorphs)

Its logical to then assume one of two things..

1) The Acid Blood is a trait of some Organism that is related to the Xenomorph, that is passed on to the Deacon Mural Organism and passed down to the Black Goo.

Maybe by the time it passes generation to generation..... i.e Trilobite to Deacon maybe the Acid Blood is a trait thats lost?

2) The Worms had Acid Blood naturally, which then has to make us wonder... if this means the Trilobite and Deacon dont.. because the Worms had Acid Blood... then how did the Xenomorphs get Acid Blood.

Are those Worms that went into the Black Goo involved in the Xenomorphs creation and Evolution? (remember who is to say that 2093 was the first time those Worms had ever been exposed to the Goo before?).

Are the worms a off-shoot of the Xenomorph if not a evolution i.e Eggs/Chicken  Xeno/Worms..

Or is its just consequence and unrelated and both just have Acid Blood?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Diz

FacehuggerMember127 XPAug-17-2016 1:14 PM

On zeno biology, the acid blood seems about 180 out from human blood.  Instead of a water base you have this acid.  Almost the antithesis of human bio?  So their blood melts our organic material.  Hard to not think that was on purpose.

On the glucose thing.  We need to find out what they must consume for energy.  So what would work with their acid?  What would the equivalent materials be?  I don't know enough about chemistry to take a guess at that.  Also what materials, both metallic and organic could withstand exposure to this acid?  Is their constant drooling slime a protective measure?

 

Michelle Johnston

ChestbursterMember763 XPAug-17-2016 11:11 PM

The Deacon is described by those who designed it as "An unholy concoction of all that has gone before". Goo/Man/Woman/Trilobite/Engineer.

As conceived for Prometheus it was a random act, which like so many other elements of the film, was to offer linkage to the original film without having a direct linear connection.

At a story telling level at the time it probably did not matter whether it had acid for blood. However that may have changed with the repositioning of its sequel.

We are now going to focus on the what, why, and how the Zeno and we have four of the key elements in place David/Goo/Mankind/Trilobite (if rumours are to be believed). The question maybe is what does the Trilobite penetrate, something which will influence the outcome in a different way, something Mechanical which operates without blood. That outcome maybe Bio Mechanical with acid, creating a new event. In which case whilst we not need to know for certain, it would feel biologically elegant for the non mechanical outcome, the calf, to have blood and the bio mechanical outcome to have acid. 

The worms are an extremely unsophisticated life form to break down, the composition of these worms may represent a simpler challenge for the mutagen added to which they bathed in the stuff. Their resistance and lack of biological sophistication attacked in overwhelming quantities could be judged differently to the chain reaction of a droplet passed through various stages. 

The composition of the Deacon and its journey from "Big Things have Small Beginnings" seems likely to be built upon given the players and the overarching story and set in motion by big idea David a technically alive Shaw, both of whose contribution to the one familiar one new event would not surprise me in the least.

   

 

Thoughts_Dreams

NeomorphMember1621 XPAug-21-2016 1:57 AM

It is an interesting question, nothing was shown about that in Prometheus. My copy of the movie has face burns that the Engineer gets from the squid. Now, if the squid (which has acid) + Engineer = Deacon then the Deacon should have acid for blood also but we don't if the Deacons has so. I think that it could have that but that is only my guess, it seems logical to me but then there might be some evolutionary steps before we come to the acid.

 

The condensed version of my answer is: it is likely but we can't be sure.

 

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