What happens to Shaw after Prometheus in Alien: Covenant - Fan Theory

I am hoping the human eggmorph idea is revisited, it's my preferred lifecycle. The Queen was hideous and all that but really just James Cameron's ego writ large.

I liked Aliens a lot when it came out, but I was also just a kid when it came out. As an adult I'm not as much in need of guns and explosions and all that. Well, not in an Alien movie anyway.

I also don't need Ripley, or even a Morb (Xenomorph) and the only let down for me about Covenant is that these items are being brought back, I was as done with them as Ridley was but this movie has to serve the zeitgeist, so I'm just thankful it's in Ridley's hands.

I just want more Ridley Scott otherworldliness, and more David, and hostile, death incarnate organisms, and that possibly when we see Shaw, she is an egg ready to burst.

We dont know yet what the plan is....

some have high hopes of now getting the Xeno and Answers and seeing our Xenos back...... but others not so much and especially because of the Time Frame... for some of us we cant buy the Xenomorph and Eggs on Derelict being a event that happens Prior to 2122 and after 2104 and this within 18 years of the Events of Covenant.

There is HOPE!

Ridley suggested before the Space Jockey was related to the Engineers, a Brother, he also said the event had occurred within a few Hundred years of the Outbreak that killed most of the Engineers off on LV-223.

That to me pointed at the Event being nothing after Prometheus and nothing to do with a Non-engineer or releated being in the Space Jockey Chair... i.e no Shaw, David or Human from Alien Covenant.

But they could change that, or come up with some Time Travel?

A key thing to note is Michael Biehn Alien 5 comments a while back.... Alien 5 is set 20 odd years after Aliens and Newt will be back and we will see a passing of the Torch.   And that Alien Covenant would be set THOUSANDS of years before Aliens.

So there is Hope!

As far as Shaw and why she is not in the movie, or may be in the movie in a Small Role but Rappace wont be in the movie... and if we maybe can use the source i had saying She Technically does not die..

Lets look at what could happen as far as David and Shaw and the Engineers Evil Biology...

*Shaw is infected again similar to Prometheus but this time David is in full control.... no C-Section this time... unless David is in control....

Shaw would then Die, or be Alive!

*Shaw's DNA is infected or gets infected and she becomes a Egg Morph... or similar.

She then kind of does not die, but then maybe she also kind of does die?

*Shaw is infected her DNA Changes and she Evolves into something else... Like the Worms, like Fifield...

She Technically does not die in this method.

*Shaw is used as part of some Giger Perverted Scheme that has to do with Procreation... she is used or attached to something, that then uses her to create something or become something...

The source said one concept showed a Humanoid, attached to a Machine or Bio-Mechanical Surface more like a Bio-Mechanical Cathedral Altar/Chancel or Ambulatory area.  They said it was like a Giger Version of the Superman 3 Robot Girl Scene.

We do see Giger had made most of his work depicting such things... so who knows..

Again this would mean a Shaw who Technically does not die too.

*Then again she could be shown as being in Cryo-sleep Pod of the Engineers but she is not awoken in this movie...

I'm just not so sure we can trust anything Bienh has to say about it. Or Sigourney for the matter. I think they're just all super excited to be relevant again even if the format is in questionable taste.

Sigourney put her own integrity into question when she recently referred to Covenant as "Prometheus 2, or whatever it's called". She's pandering to popular opinion, and it's not a little bit disgraceful. Can we expect much more from Bienh?

Now time is a very good device, especially given what can happen when traveling at light speed over great distances. I don't know, I'm not a physicist but it could be quite reasonable that time dilation has much to do with how we get from point A to point B. And that would certainly add to the sort of surreal hopelessness of the situation.

My hopes are high too, but I'm pretty confident that we're gonna get a great, fun, surreally creepy movie. I'm also confident it will be the victim of pedestrian wrath. Gotta love the Internet!

Assuming the source was correct and they are going for similar....  Then we could find Shaw either...

Getting Evolved into a Xeno/Human Hybrid.... or Shaw is connected to something to enable the creation of something.....

Would seeing Shaw used as below.. work?

Or having her Evolve into something like Sil from Species crossed with this Artwork...

What is interesting is the last image is Li   this can mean Godess in some Ancient Cultures but also be Short for Lilith  and when we search for depictions of Lilith then they do seem similar to the few drawings etc that Giger did with this Li Character

Sacrifice Plays key in the Franchise, and so maybe the way to obtain the Goo the Fire, requires a Sacrifice..  If David finds out how they obtained it but the source is all Dry.... maybe he can use Shaw to restart the process?

What is interesting is the Fire and Stone Comic, a Android Elden  is infected with the Goo and becomes something else and eventually he Merges with the Temple Complex, becoming part of it for some reason... like the Deacon Mural and like some of Gigers Bio-Mechanical Artworks.

Maybe im getting ahead of myself but thats a idea...

What if Human Sacrifice is needed for the Engineers Fire, what if Humans or Females are needed to be hooked upto some Bio-Mechanical Monstrosity of a Machine that hen Siphons something from the Sacrifice to produce a Nectar of the Gods.

Gigers work does seem to have Humanoids connected to Machines, for some bizarre purpose and that seems to be sexual in the ways he does it and sexual is linked to Procreation.  

Maybe the answer has been staring us in the Face all this time.... this got me now thinking about the Sources comments with this idea thats Popped in my head now seems to match some of that stuff.

They did say the Engineers Agenda or Agenda of their creators and thus Shaws Answers are something totally shocking and not what Shaw would hope for..

Do the Engineers need us then for some purpose and seed... Gigers work seems to show Females connected to Bio-Mechanics in sexual ways and re-production and creation seem to be a part of a lot of his work.

So maybe the sources comments and what they claimed they saw as Concept fits in?

Then we come to THE MATRIX.... Mankind was connected to those Machines to drain us of Fluids that the Machines needed to operate... maybe thats the Matrix Connection or Part of it?

Who knows... if so WOW, Totally Awesome Giger inspired Ideas, have to remember Giger thought up that the Derelict Ship Produced the Eggs and his Mural for Alien seems to show this... his Egg Silo Pregnant Bio-Mechanical Bellies seem to fit with this..

But Alas..... we cant be sure of the Source was even True...  they claim they are and only way would be if Green/Paglen Drafts came to light... or depending how much from those makes it to Alien Covenant and its sequels.

@Aorta

Biehn Interview

"They’re talking about doing another ALIENS movie, with Neill Blomkamp, and Fox came and announced it and Sigourney (Weaver) has come out and announced it. The basic idea is acting like ALIEN3 and 4 never existed, so if you go on Neill Blomkamp’s site, everyone can see all of the artwork for that. I know Ridley Scott is doing his movie first and is going to be the executive producer on this one, so I’m really looking forward to that. I know that Ridley’s focus is on the second PROMETHEUS (now titled ALIEN: COVENANT) and I’m sure that he and Fox both don’t want that and Neill’s movie to come out right next to each other, because they’re kind of two different worlds, with ALIENS taking place thousands of years later, which is how they explained it all to me, but at the same time, they want to give them a similar feel. I know they’re putting the brakes on Neill’s movie just for a little while, but I really think that it would be embarrassing to Ridley and Fox and Sigourney if they just didn’t make the movie."

Highlight this part...

"because they’re kind of two different worlds, with ALIENS taking place thousands of years later, which is how they explained it all to me"

To me this means he has spoken to Ridley, or Blomkamp and they had mentioned that at very least Prometheus 2 was set thousands of years prior.

This may not mean that Alien Covenant will be, it could be but who knows.

No doubt it's possible, I only question the source, someone we haven't heard from as an authority on things Alien pretty much ever, outside of talking about his own character.

Same with Sigourney, when did she become an authority? Yes, she had an influence over her own character arc, but that's about it. It just seems to me that all these folks are coming out of the woodwork because Blomkamp gave them a stage.

That said, I don't mind the idea of some kind of time warp at all, it'll just make things that much more weird and remote for the humans. David of course won't care at all, except to maybe exploit their discomfort.

"What did your father die of? Ebola?" Remember that? The demented half smile? That was a great moment. Now imagine him as a diabolical tour guide of paradise.

"Oh no, I'm not alone. Doctor Shaw is here. Would you like to meet her?"

"Yes. What is that?"

 "That is Doctor Shaw. Look closely."

SPLURT

I'm not refuting your opinion, but especially after Sigouneys outburst (as if she doesn't know what Alien:Covenant is called) she kind of threw anything anyone in the Blom Camp might say about it into epic dubiosity. If Biehn is privy to story details, I'm betting it's likely he was talking out of school, so to speak. 

Back to Noomi: I always figured something awful was gonna happen to her. I'm just disappointed I'm not going to see it happen, unless she really is in the movie, in some biomech transformation. I'm kinda hoping for something a little less ethereal and a little more horrific.

@BD

If it is a time travel solution would it be a one off achievement in a pre equal to get back to the events of LV426 and come in through the back door. Would it connect with time travel to get Ripley and Hicks and Newt into the post ALIENS scenario or is that such expeditious plotting that it would feel a little to convenient.    

Yes that is the better way to do things, if some event that is a one off causes a tear in time and space that David and the Covenant enter through...

And after the blast at the end of Aliens it opens this tear up again so one Sulaco goes through the Alien 3 Timeline and the other Alien 5.

But who knows...

Any event set thousands of years ago could be a visual Narrative of David reading or even passing on what he has found out about the Engineers and then we flash to a flash back in the past.

At the moment who knows what will be the case, hopefully more clues will come along

@BD

Matrix/Transcendence/Green Lantern

Paglen/Green.

One of the curiosities of A C, not unlike other film developments, is we know that a substantial shift has taken place as to the way the story is going to be framed and equally and probably more unusual for a franchise the entire trajectory has changed. It seems to me that together with some of the really informed remarks made to you we can learn a lot about the style of the film and its preoccupations because we know what it is not going to be.

What strikes me forcibly about the original writers Paglen/Green and the movies Transcendence/Green Lantern/Matrix is they deal with duality in a very science way. For Paradise to have an alternative dark living reality which Shaw and David find there way into and are affected in a  myriad of contrasting ways seems to be a very strong theme of the original idea and an exploration of the Engineers and their fall could have been at the centre of that focus with the Zeno a mere foot note. The horrors they find are relatable but new.

The introduction of John Logan has changed everything and looking at his body of work whatever the genre or its success you can see the films are driven by a characters pursuit of …….. and the reasons for that pursuit come from a very strong sense of constantly revealed interconnected back story. JL is very strong on building the characters motives through a rich back story and as they make that journey we feel more involved as who they are and why they are the way they are becomes clearer. A virtuous cycle of enlightenment.  

Now when I apply that to Alien Covenant to put the characters into a point in time and then through the narrative explore why they are doing what they are doing seems to fit with the overall tangent of the backing into and the way the synopsis works.

In away I am saying the same thing but from a different perspective but this is why Shaw is absent as a constant feature and why we move forward 10 years.

I think all of the themes that you and Caryn have highlighted will be in the mix.

Zeno/Engineers rather than Engineers/Zeno.

The mendacity of Weyland Yutani.

But more than anything David who is he now and how has he become what he is and the threat that poses will I feel sure by the revelatory revealing part of the movie which Daniel's will have to respond to.

Why move from the light into darkness via Science Fiction to light into darkness being revealed by character?

One thing that may have influenced Ridley is not only the floridness of Prom and its elliptical way of showing methodology bothers the audience but Transcendence failure and Green Lantern come to that. Instead like his first success character will come up front and ideas will be more literally handled.

ST Nemesis did not work but it was an attempt through character to explore duality through cloning  Shinzon/Picard and that of course is not exactly a million miles away from doppelgänger David. Nemesis of course was written by John Logan.

For me all the signs point to character rather than ideas being the focus with the ideas revealed through the narrative outcome whereas in Prom it was an ideas movie which characters fell into and the outcomes where narrated 3rd person or emblematic rather than sown into the outcome. It was about intellectual curiosity rather than emotional attachment which is what made A L I E N work so well.     

Big Dave:

I think that it could be interesting if Shaw would turn into some mix of a human or either cyborg or something close to the Xeno while still have some human traits (which would fit with how we got the dog Xeno in Alien 3). They could make this interesting by doing something Gigeresque. Maybe there is some hope to turn Shaw into something interesting? In real life genes can mutate and we get new kinds of humans and also different species by mixing so something similar could happen to Shaw. One idea is to get her kind of like a terminator but maybe that idea is used too often by now.

There are different things that the human Shaw could be mixed with. Some of them is either a cyborg, some sort of monster, or what ever. As far as personality it could keep some parts from the old Shaw while letting the new version be the most of her personality in order to avoid the annoying parts in Prometheus. If there is someone that is a good writer and knows science-fiction well enough it could work.

In Buddhism they say that this life is a step towards a new life and maybe the same thing could be done to Shaw in the movie?

@MJ

Very good points, and i think yes they want to take us to a way similar to Alien and Prometheus but give us better use of Characters rather than Plot like Alien did.  Rather than explore a movie about just a handful of Humans and Engineers.

I think the Door is open on the Engineers and all those clues from Prometheus, they are not going to be de-canonised just left to not be explored as deep.

We dont have much on Covenant but we can make a few Guesses at some of the Plot, Pretty Much like Paradise Lost was.. but i think we could make more of that.

Here is a comparison of a rough Plot based on what we new of both movies.....  (this does not include the source leaks as there leaks lead to more detail).

Paradise Lost -----

This seemed to set up the main Plot as following Shaw and David on their way to the Homeworld of the Engineers, Finding some remains of a Ancient Culture and Race of would be Gods/Creators.  And meeting with some of them and finding out their True Nature and Agenda further moves away from Shaws Faith and Belief about our Creators... if she felt what she found out in Prometheus a Horrific Truth that defies her Faith... what she finds on Paradise is far worse.

These beings who are not Gods (but are not Engineers) are far from Benevolent... But Alas David has his own Agenda and he has a Cargo of Black Goo and will unleash Hell on Paradise....

It would seem this Narrative would gave us some explanation to our Purpose, the Purpose of the Engineers and the Evil Biology and also lead to use seeing similar creations to the Xeno if only vaguely.  And maybe explain why we dont see Engineers again in the Franchise....

David maybe wipes them out?

(other potential things that could have been covered that the comments and plot hints never lead us to but as these are not mentioned we cant assume Paradise Lost would have shown us LV-223, Weyland-Yutani etc).

Alien Covenant ---

Alien Covenant is set years after Prometheus and maybe after David arrives at Paradise. we have a Weyland-Yutani Company Ship that is on route to the same World that David is on, with no real clues as to how this came to be or was it coincidence?

It would appear that the Covenant Crew for the most part may arrive at a World they thought was Uncharted Paradise, only to as the Plot goes on.. find out its a World that bares some connection to a Ancient Race maybe long Gone... with little or no remains left.

The crew would soon have this culture explained to them by David, and maybe a little about Prometheus Mission.... David will gain their trust and captivate them at what a find they are on to.. before BAM! he unleashes his True Agenda.. 

And something that was either Evolving on that World, after David had done something... or something he came across left behind by the Ancient Culture that was their thousands of years ago. 

This gets unleashed and all Hell Breaks Out...

The Covenants Lander is destroyed with as a Sabotage to prevent the Crew from Escaping and Falling into Davids Trap..... or to prevent what ever is unleashed from leaving Paradise.

Eventually David will spill some beans about what is going on, or we shall see some Flash Backs that vaguely cover it.

Maybe we find out the company knows, because they have had contact with David and the Covenant is just another baited Sacrifice like the Nostramo and Hadleys Hope?

(there will off course be other elements that we are not aware of yet, but so far thats what the Synopsis and information has lead me to)

The thing is this is part of a 2-3 movie Plot and i cant see them spilling all the beans as far as the Xeno.. i mean 2 more movies that cover very similar to Xenomorphs and what ever few survivors from this movie do after....

i think future movies would have to bring up the Engineers a bit, and maybe the next movie could show us the survivors going to LV-223 to destroy the horrors left behind...

Especially if David has a Agenda, and the Company know and are playing along with him.

The source at first said they did not know quite why their was such a Change of Direction but it seemed the reception from Prometheus and Criticism of the movie and where the 2nd movie was going... compared to the Anticipation for Blomkamps Alien 5 and how this movie would give us the Xeno Fix.... as Prometheus never gave us as much answers to the Xenomorph as far as When/How/Why only just vaguely made links and was trying to steer more towards what the Creators of the Xeno and Mankind had as their Agenda of which the Xeno was a small part.

This is kind of how i felt to, that they (FOX) felt that a movie that would cover the Xeno more and give us Answers Sooner, would be what the Fans would want to see.

There is also the case of a few changes that Blomkamps Ideas had so as to not step on Prometheus 2 Toes.... we know Alien 5 had different strains of Xeno DNA and maybe Xeno DNA Manipulation... and captured Engineer Ship, and use of Engineer Technology and also Genetic Morphing of Human DNA.

Maybe its a case of give the Xeno clues and answers more of a cover this time, so Alien 5 cant step on its toes and maybe Alien 5 would then draw fans in with Alien Covenants more Xeno clues to then wanting to know more about the Engineers who are behind all these horrors..

Thus depending on reaction it allows them for Alien Covenants sequel to bring a bit more Engineers back into it?

@Thoughts_Dreams

Yes there is some ideas that could have been used, but we dont know what part Shaw will play, would she just be killed off Screen and never have nothing explained...

Just David saying "unfortunately Shaw did not make the Journey, the Engineer Ships were not suitable to support Human Life"  "she is in a better place now and finally found her own Paradise"

They could pull that, and so no need to cover anything and leave us with a unanswered Mystery of what really happened... did Shaw die in Cryo Sleep?

The Paradise Lost hints where quite open... it seemed Shaw arrived at Paradise to meet these Gods who are not Gods but are not so nice guys... David would unleash Hell on them... and the movie was set up to have a sequel so a 3rd movie...  The After Math maybe and who knows.. was Shaw to survive?

However the Source claimed otherwise, it was not clear if the ideas they claimed they came across where for a Two Part  like say Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows or all the leaks where from One movie with a sequel planned after..?

I had made a Topic on this before... and the last information i ever had i will have to add it to their but they are very coy.... and hint that themes from it could be carried over to the rest of the Alien Prequels.

@BD

A L I E N - Paradise Lost Mid October 2015

A L I E N - Covenant Mid November 2015  

Not to be pedantic but I think the Paglen/Green Engineers/Zeno story David, Shaw matrix into the dark side belongs to a period before Paradise Lost.

The new crew were beginning of 1st Act by mid October with the PL title. What shifted was the title and the sense that Shaw had gone from a small role to not appearing.

The ten years may have alway been in the mix it is just that we only found out through the costume designers remarks in December.

This to me is relevant it means a lot of the philosophical pre occupations of P L will be in Covenant and that David and Shaw went ahead (excuse that) and that in some way we will likely understand what has become of Shaw now indeed once they firmed the title they may have decided to hide Shaw as a revelation not Noomi but what she has become.  

Which is almost certainly an egg.

It would be rather interesting if Shaw did become an egg, like the one seen in the deleted Alien scene when Ripley finds Dallas. A metamorphosis rather than a production. If so, I wonder what the hell she will look like... 

Since its Shaw, I'm sure it would be rather darling as eggs go.

I know it's unlikely, but here's a possibility: Holloway was becoming an egg. And/or Fifield. 

Why is the Morb's head so big? It doesn't need to be that big just to house the tongue. Maybe that's where the Goo is produced, in its base form. And it uses the Goo to reproduce with local biology.

Imagine that the Morb isn't just a weapon. It's a punishment. 

You do bring up a good point about the Alien head being abnormally large and seemingly pointlessly so. It's not so far fetched to assume that it could be, as you say, a housing for a series of glands which produce bio-altering matter. Like some insects and their poison, this could certainly be an angle they pursue.

Taking it one step further. What if the second jaw was originally intended to act as a delivery method for the bio-former? Like a mosquito injects numbing agents and draws blood, the Alien could have originally used this biology to inject it's "poison".

Keeping in mind, I think the Xenomorph we're all familiar with was not its pure form and has since been tainted and altered. By David? By the Engineers? Probably both. Thus with such tampering perhaps the Xenomorph lost or was denied it's ability to inject and produce such a chemical and so, evolved to use its second jaw as a mere blunt object, leaving it's extended cranium an empty cavity. Who knows, but you might be on to something!