Alien: Covenant ..... The Story So Far!74,491 Views185 RepliesAdd A Reply
I am starting this Topic to discus the Plot of Alien: Covenant as it unfolds, and to use information that was released after the COVENANT Name Change. So we can gradually discus how the Plot Thickens as more information is released from now until the Movie is out and try and peice together what we feel the movie is going to be about and what path it will be taking us down. I only wish to try and use information released after the Alien: Covenant Name Change... but we can draw upon other information released prior if any new information released after the Alien: Covenant Name Change supports it. Feel free to add any extra information and discus what you feel the movie is going to show us based on Official Information released.
Ridley Scott returns to the universe he created in ALIEN with ALIEN: COVENANT, the second chapter in a prequel trilogy that began with PROMETHEUS -- and connects directly to Scott’s 1979 seminal work of science fiction. Bound for a remote planet on the far side of the galaxy, the crew of the colony ship Covenant discovers what they think is an uncharted paradise, but is actually a dark, dangerous world -- whose sole inhabitant is the "synthetic" David (Michael Fassbender), survivor of the doomed Prometheus expedition.
Update: 30 January... Noomi Rapace (Shaw) will not be apearing. (or may not be shooting in Sydney).
Michael Fassbender (David* plus another role?), Katherine Waterston (Daniels),Demián Bichir, Amy Seimetz, Carmen Ejogo, Jussie Smolett and Callie Hernandez, Alex England
Danny McBride, Billy Crudup (Both in Talks)
Additional Plot Information (Not included in the Synopsis)
*The Movie will take place 10 years after the events of Prometheus (year 2104+).
*The World the crew of the Covenant will arrive at will have a Evolving Creature that the Engineers or their Technology had a role in its origin.
*The Movie will try to answer who made the Beast (Xenomorph) and for what reason.
*The hints seem to be that it was a Bio-Mechanical Bio-Weapon and it will explain that.
*There will be all 4 Stages of the Beast (Xenomorph?) Egg, Face-Hugger, Chest-Burster, then the Big Boy.
*The movie (or sequels) will re-introduce the Alien (Xenomorph) back into the Franchise.
*Ridley feels the Franchise did not fully explore the Creature, and that without that Creature based of HR Gigers Work the movie Franchise would not have worked.
*The Movie will have 2 sequels at which time by the end we shall know the Xenomorph Origins and why the Space Jockey got to LV-426 or at the very least why/how did he get that Organism inside him.
*They will be comming in from the back end and will eventually reach Alien via the back door.
*Elizabeth Shaw will play a minor role at very least in the Next Movie, but there is not explantion to why.
*David will be reprising his role and that of a Doppelganger.
*The Emphasis seems to be on the David the Covenant finds as Synthetic.
*The World the Covenant finds is a scene of Disaster.
*The Movie will be shot in New South Wales, with Shooting Locations and a lot of work done in Sydney at a Movie Studio (Sydney Fox Studio).
*The Movie will feature Monumental Forest and Monumental Rock and the rest will be in the studio with fairly Formidable CGI.
*Micheal Biehn added in a interview about Alien 5, that both movies are set in similar theme, but that they take place on Different Worlds and Aliens is set THOUSANDS of years after Alien: Covenant.
*The Movie would be on the same tangent as Alien 5 but they would both be treading different paths, and Alien 5 goes out next after Alien: Covenant and seems they know more than they let on about Alien 5 Title, but Ridley then said it would be a Alien: Prefix but after both movies we shall see how the bus is being driven... pointing to some connection between both movies?
So feel free to discus of add information to the above and try and draw up any ideas of what you think may be happening as far as Alien Covenant mainly.... but if you wish how it could connect to other movies both past and future to the Franchise.
Update * Mid January 2016
*There will be a Chest Buster Scene that would be more gruesome than the 1979 Original
Update * End January 2016
*Alien Covenant is casting Extras aged between 8-40 who are either Very Small and Thin, or Very Tall and Thin but who also have to be very Strong and Athletic and skilled as Acrobats, Contortionists and the like.
*Noomi Rapace (Dr Shaw) may not be apearing in the next movie. (But this could mean not part of the shooting in Australia)
Update February 16 thanks to Enoch333
Wayne Haag Confirmed to be working on Some Concept work as of Fall 2015 and Harry Gregson-Williams to be working on the Soundtrack
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I don't understand the 'remote planet on the far side of the galaxy..' part...Is this just Hollywood hype? Why are they travelling such crazy distances!?
They received a distress signal(from David?).
They stopped at LV-223 and found clues to the location of Paradise.
They were captured by a wormhole or warp tunnel and sent to the far side of the galaxy.
they are deep space explorers and the far side of the galaxy was their goal.
Yes so far its hard to break down the Plot.... i do however and i could be wrong, think they interview comments and Synopsis draw a picture... but so far a few of the Plot points have alternatives as there is not enough information to make a more definative guess.
Here goes my reading of the clues alone...
1) I dont think the Covenant would have been to LV-223 or even detected any signals from David, if they did it would only be a David Android on that ship who keeps it secret from the crew and has a hidden Agenda... much like Ash from Alien.... but would they re-tred a done before concept?
2) I think the Synopsis to mean reads as though the crew of the Covenant are suprised and unaware of anything they find. They would have expected this Uncharted World to be different than the scene of disaster they find. They would be suprised to find another David Android (assuming Covenant has one). the Synopsis seems to point me towards the crew not expecting anything that they find... which would rule out going to LV-223 and any knowledge of the Engineers or anything from Prometheus... apart from that maybe it was a ship that was destined for a journey to a World that held clues maybe of our creation but it had suffered a mishap... i dont think the crew of the Covenant would be aware of what went down.
So what they find is unexpected for them.
3) The Synopsis indicates that Paradise is futher away than LV-223 but we have to remember Prometheus Synopsis indicated a World that is on the darkest reaches of the Universe... but Dark could be as far as Sinister and not far distances... I would assume due to the Plot of Prometheus and Alien Franchise and certain loop holes, i dont think Paradise would be close to Earth. The Engineers afterall would not conduct such experiments on their own Door Step* (this could be a massive massive Clue). ill cover after.
*Note Skip to 4) for fast reading.... point 3 is that Paradise is some futher distance away and i think the Covenant would have departed Earth to this Earth Like Uncharted World between mid 2070's and 2100.. below just details why i think this is the case.
So and i will only go by official Information regarding Covenant (so have to throw out the 600 Light Year distance in the constellation Ophiuchus that a source told me about).
And so unless we are touching upon Worm Holes and the like (which i hope we dont as far as how the Covenant reaches Paradise) then we have to go with distances a ship can travel is the Ships FTL Speed X number of years travel for the Prometheus that was approx 2 years for 39 Light Years approx that gives us a theoretical Prometheus class Speed of 20 Light years per year. And why would it be any faster? if it was then surely a dying Peter Weyland would have wanted to get to LV-223 as soon as possible and if there was other ships at that time that could travel faster then why did Weyland not use one of those? Unless Yutani only possessed faster ships and he did not want them knowing about the Mission. (But secretly they did).
We dont know for sure the Speeds of Ships within the Franchise up until the year 2104 as only 3 classes of Ship are mentioned.. the Heliades (2034) of which Prometheus (2072) is a newer, safer and faster vessel "Prometheus can take us to KOI-2410 and beyond, past the furthest of our Weyland-built worlds," says Concordov. "Where Heliades leaves off, Prometheus picks up. And this is just the beginning" This implies that the 2072 Prometheus class is faster than the 2034 Heliades but we have no Data on the Heliades Speeds... Next Ship in the Franchise mentioned is the Nostramo Class (2101) that has a FTL Speed of 47 Light Years per year approx.
As of now we dont know how far Paradise is, all we know is the Covenant arrives in the year 2104 approx.... 10 years after Prometheus. Now all we are left with is assumptions that Ships prior to 2093 can only travel at upto 20LY/Year we do not know if any ships between then and 2100 can travel the speeds the Nostramo does at upto 47LY/Year.
So we have no information regarding the distance or date of reparture for the Covenant, but we can only assume that as the movie has a Doupleganger to David and so lets assume its a David 8 then the Covenant would have had to had set off after the year 2073 putting a theoretical range at same speeds as Prometheus at a maximum of about 600 Light Years. But then the Manager of the Costume designs sugested only David 8 has the Old Space Suits, but old could be as far as the design for the movie i.e Prometheus Production was earlier than Covenants and not in regards to Alien Time Line.... But if we assume this is after Prometheus and after the faster Nostramo class ships then one of those setting off in 2101 would have a range of 140 Light Years.
But we cant take any of these Speeds as fact as the Weyland Website contradicts itself as David 8 models had been onboard Heliades class Ships that then worked on the Outpost on KOI-252.1 that Weyland site has terraformed in the year 2061-2067 and at a distance of 1242 Light Years.
But we can assume that Paradise is in a location much futher and remote than LV-223, and i am going to assume this ship would either have a David 8, or a Human David lookalike (which would make this Human in there 60's by the time of 2104 not take into account Cryo Sleep).
So my ASSUMPTION is Paradise is quite far away, and the Covenant was off on a Long Mission to a uncharted Paradise, which i assume means that they had detected a Earth Like World that would support life with little or no Terraforming required... And so they set off a Colony Ship to investigate and travel to this distant World.... And so i assume this ship departed Earth from the Mid 2070's to 2100.
4) Fassbender will play two roles... David 8 and a Doupleganger this would most likely be either another David 8 onboard the Covenant or a Human that they based David 8's appearence on, David 8 Model was released in 2072 and i find it no Coinsidence this is the same time as the newer upgraded Heliades craft the Prometheus Class in the same year.
While the two roles of David could mean he is Evolved at some point, Ridley did say Fassbender will play two versions of David, two roles. and then the Doupleganger comment points to there being Two Seperate David 8's or a David 8 and a Lookalike... The emphasis of the Synopsis was on the Covenant find a "Synthetic" and why would Ridley mention Doupleganger instead of Fassbender will play Two Davids.....
I am assuming that the Doupleganger is Human, and onboard the Covenant and this would lead to a interesting Dynamic as David who craves to be accepted and more Human meets his Doupleganger who has the wishes that David wants... but then David would know he is superior.
I think the Covenant would thus have either another David 8 Android, or a Human that has Davids likeness... i like the latter idea as it would be a twist... and open up a interesting Dynamic....
If it is a Human counterpart then this also open up a theory on the Covenants timeline.. as if all Davids from Model 1 are based of a Actual Human those models came out in 2025 which would put the likeness of David at about 110-115 by the time of Covenant.... now the first FTL Ships came out in the year 2034, and in Aliens they was suprised Ripley stayed in Cryo Sleep for 50 years which tells me 50 years too long to sustain life especially in the years prior to Alien 2122 Technology.... So for this Likeness to had been the basis for David 1, and to be on Covenant in the year 2104 would mean he would have to had spent 60-70 years in Cryo Sleep.
So i am Assuming the later David models either 7 or 8 2068-2072 have this Doupleganger likeness, which would support the Covenant being a ship that is Newer than 2072 Prometheus Class. And thus the Covenant departed Earth between mid 2070's and 2100.
5) Paradise is or was Uncharted Paradise.... the Synopsis sends me down the path that the Covenant Colony ship is sent off to explore a detected potential Earth like World that would be a Paradise because it would be very Earth Like and require little or no Terraforming. But when they reach this destination they find it is nothing like the World they had expected...
Now the Covenant would know the World is more Baron and Dark, if this place was like it before they departed... so at the time the Covenant set off on its Mission Paradise was a potential Paradise to them..... but there are a few things that could have happened.
a) By the time David arrived on Paradise which has to be before the Covenant, in the 10 years between Prometheus and Covenant David arrives at Paradise and does he discover a baron World... are there no Engineers... or does the Covenant arrive after the aftermath of what Ever David got upto after he landed... remember "he was bringing Hell with him (Cargo)"
b) Paradise had suffered some disaster prior to Davids arrival.... if we consider a Star System far away lets say you was a Alien Race in a System 500 Light years away and you detect Earths system and the potential this system could sustain life... as it could have a Earth like World...... if our Sun was to all of a sudden go Super Nova.... then this Alien Race 500 Light Years away would not see our Sun/Star disapear in the sky for 500 years... if they set off a mission to Earth that would take them say 50 years by the time they got here... Earth would not be here at all.
So its possible that by the time Covenant arrives the World they arrive at is no longer the Paradise that any surveys and satellites/telescopes etc detected it could be...
Supporting Evidence..... Paradise that they find is a Dark and Dangerous World a World that is the scene of a Disaster..... but the movie will have shooting Locations that contain Monumental Forest and Monumental rock and New South Wales Shooting Locations look very Lush and abudant with Life.... a Paradise. What role can these locations play if Covenant is set in Space and Paradise, and not on Earth?
6) Engineers... i would think the movie would show us Engineers, or something of the Engineers past and Paradise from a time it was a Paradise.. due to the Shooting Locations and comments above. The crew of the Covenant do not find Paradise but a Dark Dangerous World that has seen Disaster..... i would assume Paradise has been changed either by David's hands when he arrives.. (does he find no Engineers or beigns?) Or we could have a Flash Back Scene like the Sacrifcial Scene in Prometheus on a Primordial World... but this time we get a Scene set on Paradise before what ever Disaster had left such a world Dark and Dangerous.
Micheal Biehn said Alien: Covenant is set thousands of years before Aliens... well 2104 is not thousands of years and so there has to be a Scene or Scenes set in the past.... this would explain the Monumental Forest locations.
7) The crew of the Covenant discover something Evolving on the world of the Engineers, i assume that they're refers to the crew of the Covenant, more than David and Shaw. But it could mean David and Shaw but Shaw does not appear in the Synopsis and only plays a small role.
So i assume the Covenant arrive at this World, that is now Dangerous and Dark, and find a David 8 from the Prometheus and something Evolving that they (Engineers) had created... now either what they find
a) Something Evolving from thousands of years ago, as a result of the Disaster and maybe disapearence of the Engineers on Paradise... and David locates the remnants of the Organism that caused such Disaster. And plans to lure the Covenant into a trap. Or has David unleashed this Organism upon a Sacrifice? Shaw or other Being found?
b) David has used the Cargo he had optained from LV-223 to create something and so its created via the Engineers Evil Biology that they had created. But would he not need a Sacrifice to create something.. is that what becomes of Shaw? or any Beings they found?
c) David uses the Cargo on something that was on Paradise, and it is Evolved at the hands of David.
The Movie is to show us the Origins somehow... but its not until the next two movies after that we would get a direct link to Alien and that Cargo on the Derelict and the Space Jockey. So at very least this movie will in part show us something related to the Xeno...
8) We shall see all stages of the Xenomorph... Egg, Face-Hugger, Chest Buster and Big Boy, the movie must show us these Stages... and it seems to imply the Classic Xenomorph but we can not be 100% sure if we are only touching upon the Origin of the Xeno, and LV-426 would not be covered until latter movies.
These leaves us with these Stages, and it may be only a small portion of Screen time and not a fully fledged Xeno Fest! i would also assume Davids Cargo would be used to introduce something different. So how do we see these 4 stages of the Alien?
a) Do we see the crew of Covenant fall victim to the Traditional Xeno Egg/Face Huger, does Paradise have these Eggs on that World..... i would assume it has a Flash Back Scene, set thousands of years ago... does this show something else that would thousands of years latter end up Evolving into Eggs on Paradise?
b) Do we see David using the Cargo somehow replicate the condtions required to create the Traditional Xeno, does his Cargo contain a different stand of DNA than the other ship on LV-223... they sugest something is evolving prior to the Covenant crew arriving... could it be something evolved at the hands of David and the Cargo.. and is this evolution the result of his Cargo being used on Shaw, other beings (Engineers) or used on some Organism left behind from thousands of years ago.... and this is how we are re-introduced to the Xeno.
c) Do we see a Flash Back Scene set thousands of years ago, that show us the Classic Xenomorph in its 4 stages.... and what David and the Covenant find is something evolved from this.... or David evolves the Xenomorph that is left behind into something new... or something that is left behind is evolved into the Xenomorph.
These are the 7 points that i can make from information and the Synopsis...
I have some ideas of how we move from this to the next movies to link to Alien, but i feel i would keep this to what we shall see in Covenant... so i will next make a Synopsis Plot based on those 7 points.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Great topic idea BigDave! Nice to keep track of the facts in a simple manner.
"Micheal Biehn said Alien: Covenant is set thousands of years before Aliens."
I don't mind Flashbacks.... *if* they deal with the main characters. Just flashing back to show some Engineers wandering around, 'doing stuff' will fail. ...I think we need some divested interest. To see through a main characters eyes. Shaw's Flashback/dream in Prometheus is a good example. I care about Shaw....the scene was interesting. If they flashback or show holo videos of the Engineers in the old days...I'm not sure that would work. Unless we get to be friends with one of the long lived Engineers? Conan Stevens? But... I still don't think it would work.
Don't really want to watch archeology.
I think there is a good chance we shall see Flash Back Scenes.... if we disregard Micheal Biehns comment about the movie being set thousands of years ago.....
We still have the description of the Forest Location and Covenant expecting Paradise but finding a Dark World that has seen Disaster.... while its not FACT, i do think these shooting locations that will be in New South Wales, dont fit in with what Paradise is described as..... but it would fit in as far as a World that is thriving with Life, and a Perfect Habitat to Start a Colony on.
I find it somewhat hard that David in the space of less than 10 years can turn a Paradise to a Baron and Dark Wasteland... thats assuming Paradise is such a place.... maybe he could do, but i think the Black Goo Bio Weapon would Evolve lots of Life on Such a World... including Plant Life... as shown in the Fire and Stone Comics...
Maybe the Xenomorph was just one part of a War or Disaster, that would turn such a Paradise into a Dark Dangerous World... but then Dangerous could mean the way the Forest and Life within is now Evolved into something more Sinister, due to Xeno DNA?
Maybe however some event thousands of years ago or after could have caused such a change to a once Paradise? I cant see how they will and can sidestep, what transpired in the 10 years since David and Shaw left LV-223 and are we to assume David and Shaw arrive at Paradise that has less Engineer Life than LV-223 did.... are they any at all left? If there is non then it sort of goes against any plans for following on from Prometheus. But we cant rule out that this is the case and we are left with a Baron World with no Engineers... so no Answers for Shaw.
But i am sure the fans would want to know why, and if there is no Engineer civilisation then what had became of this... and how is the Xeno connected... because LV-223 suffered a catastrophe 2000 years ago aswell, and they was experimenting on or creating something from the Evil Biology that is connected to the Xenomorph..
I cant see Two more movies, that would carry on from the aftermath of Covenant and then give us the connections to Alien and the Space Jockey... not as far as direct timeline of events from Prometheus ===> Covenant ===> Part 3 ===> Part 4 ===> Alien.
So i think at some point we shall explore what ever caused such a Downfall of the Engineer Empire.... and i cant rule out a teaser to this as a Flash Back in the next movie... it would make more sense and tick all the boxes.
*Micheal Biehns comment... thousands of years ago.
*LV-223 Event thousands of years ago, and the Outposts connection to Xeno DNA and the Weapon to be used on Mankind.
*The Derelict and how it seemed to be there for longer than upto 18 years (Ridley confirmed it had been there for thousands of years.
*Ommision of Engineers in the Synopsis, when Prometheus scratched the surface of these guys and all comments before seemed to point us to the Franchise being about them.
*The Reason that Paradise would be regarded as such, but is not no longer and maybe how the monumental forest and monumental rock locations can come into play.
But then the scenes could be about Shaw and David and what Paradise was like when they arrived... we cant be 100% sure what route this would take.. but i dont think they are done as far as taking the Engineers out of the Equation.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
" i dont think Paradise would be close to Earth. The Engineers afterall would not conduct such experiments on their own Door Step* (this could be a massive massive Clue). ill cover after."
Which brings me back to this point..... unless they are going to go against what was set down in Prometheus... These Engineers had in someway produced, experimented on some Biological Warefare on that Outpost on LV-223, they did so as this was a place they could conduct and launch such Evil Weapons of Biology onto Earth....
As Prometheus implied.. these Engineers never came from LV-223 the place was merely a Outpost where they would Store and maybe even create Cargos of Bio-Weapons. And they would use the LV-223 outpost instead of create such things on their own Doorsteps.
So we have to ask, how can the planet of the Engineers (Paradise) be a place where we find these beigns had created such Evil Biology, when Prometheus claimed they would not be as foolish to conduct such experiments in their own Back Yard!
But we are talking a Origins Story... eventually... but the Origins could be that of the Xenomorph itself as opposed to Bio Weapon Black Goo that we saw on LV-223.... but if the Xeno predates the creation of those Urns... then why is the creation and experiments with the Black Goo seen as more deadly...?
Well the Black Goo, can potentially be more hazardous...
So we have to assume the Biology that went into those Urns, was not created on Paradise.. they was either created from something from Paradise.... or maybe Paradise is where the basic form of the Goo came from (Sacrificial).
So then how does the Xeno related creature evolve on Paradise? is it something David brought with him.... and how does this fit in with what remains of the Engineers.. surely David cant wipe out all of them with his Bio-Weapon especially if the Engineers know about the Juggernaught ships and there purpose and LV-223.
Unless a War had occuried years ago, where the Xenomorph or the Biology related to it was used on Paradise.... maybe it was made on LV-223 but somehow it had got to Paradise.
The Synopsis and information does not say the Creature... and Origin of the Xeno... was created on Paradise... just that we see it created or unleashed on Paradise as far as maybe arriving at Paradise at some place?
Unless the Engineers really are that Stupid.
So if any of this is touched upon vaguley... maybe it requires
* Flash Backs like the Sacrificial Scene.
*David can read from hieroglyphs on Paradise, or some other method of information the Engineers had, be that on Paradise.. or David peices it together after leaving LV-223. And if so does David relay these findings verbally.. like how Janek mentioned how he had to Nuke a Facility because some Scientists had spilt something...? As opposed to how the Sacrifical Scene showed us the seeding of Engineer DNA in a visual way.
*Hollogram Scenes again... which i dont think would be the ideal way to go.. but we cant rule out a few..
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think the story needs to be far from Earth. For continuity..... The Covenant or Prometheus is never mentioned in the Alien verse. The events that befall the Prometheus and Covenant crew should be closed from the Alien universe. Just a one off.
You should be able to watch the prequels and then watch Alien/Aliens/3/4 without thinking: Why isn't Earth/Nostromo talking about the Prometheus or Covenant fatalities? The Earth system would be in lockdown mode if word of the Engineers and space monsters reached them!.....No, It's business as usual in the 22nd century...sending families to terraform worlds! Monsters? Never heard of such things..Covenant? What's that?
"The events that befall the Prometheus and Covenant crew should be closed from the Alien universe"
I fully agree and its one of the loop holes they need to adress... LV-223 being the big one... but from Ridleys comments, it seems that they have a connection with this movie with Alien 5, so i think Prometheus, Covenant and Engineers will be mentioned to some extent in the next Alien movie by Blomkamp.
I think it would be a ideal, idea for them to have it that the Engineer Ship and Xeno they get their hands on in Alien 5 would be from the aftermath of Covenant as opposed to the Derelict or LV-223.
The next 3 movies in the prequel series will lead up to connecting to Alien, and explaining Alien but Ridley uses the term the Back Door and Back End, and i think this implies that the events of the time line post 2104 and 18 years after do not directly lead to the Derelict... i.e the Derelict and its Cargo are on LV-426 more than 18 years prior to Alien.
But who knows... maybe they are making a U-Turn and having it directly connected but i cant see how a crew of a Colony Ship, David and his Doppelganger and a Evolving Monster on Paradise.. are all going to take up 2 more movies based just on that lot.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
While i wanted to keep this thread to Alien: Covenant i will discus things from other movies that fit in with what is said in Covenant...
Ridley has sugested if you read into his comments.
*They (Covenant crew) are going to the Planet of the Engineers. (same Paradise David and Shaw was going to).
*They will find a Evolving Creature (Xeno DNA related) that is implied the Engineers Created (or at very least the Engineers Evil Biology).
*We will find out who and why it was created and why they (Engineers) would have such Bio-Mechanical Bio-Weapons and why it is Bio-Mechanical and a Bio-Weapon.
If we are to see this things as in context of the Next Movie, or maybe some points like the last are what they are leading towards in a second movie...
We have to simply ask......
How are they going to show us that the Engineers played a role in this Organism, and reasons for its creation. Without touching upon the Engineers. Even if we dont see any Engineers so if we look at Prometheus and imagine all the Engineers was dead, and there was no Hologram Scenes. We would thus get mild clues, scenes of distruction and maybe David being able to interpret things and narate to the Covenant what went down.
This would raise Questions... I think the main problems with Prometheus as far as reception was.
1)There was no Answers to Alien as far as the Xeno/Eggs and how it got on the Derelict.
2)We never saw any Xenomorphs or even much Xeno-esque Organisms runing around killing people, Egg Morphing people, Chest Busting... apart from the last Scene.
3) The movie left us with clues to a connection between the Engineers/Space Jockey, the LV-223 Outpost and Xeno DNA/Urn Cargo and Derelict/Juggernaught and it seemed to show hints the Engineers created this Organism but it never answered the Questions and just left more... including they created us and then wanted to destroy us with the Xeno or related Biology.
So having unanswered Questions is one thing that was Negative about the movie, if they now give Fans Xenos, Chest Busters, Face Huggers etc but then even less clues to the Engineers connection to this than even Prometheus had shown, and no Engineers in this movie or the others.. i think it would in part leave just as big a problem to some as far as WHY/WHEN and HOW.....
I think the bigger premise for Prometheus was the Space Jockey, and they was more than a Race who had a Cargo of Xeno Eggs.... They opened up a big Plot for these beings, and Questions left after such REVELATIONS. This was the Premise of doing a sequel.
So are we to assume and be shown the following?
*We arrive at a World that has no inhabitants apart from David 8 and a Evolving Organism. If they are going the route the Engineers played a roll in this Organism, would viewers not want to know what this connection is and who was these beings.. and those who saw Prometheus would already know but not know enough. Or do we simply get no answers...
*How can they cover the How, Who and Why if its linked to the Engineers, if we dont even get a mention of clues... and if we got just a mention of clues then surely Fans would want to see these Engineers and surely future movies would have to answer this..? for those who already knew about the Engineers from Prometheus they would want to see the connection too and may feel the Engineers cant be left unresolved. Fans not familar with Prometheus would no doubt find something about it in the next movie as they cant just Show David 8 and not explain who he is, where he is from etc... Even if not much is mentioned... just that he was from the Doomed Prometheus Mission, and now he is on Paradise that is connected to Xeno DNA or even show David has a Engineer Ship/Derelict... Fans who never saw Prometheus would want to go see this or at least look into what it was all about..
They then would have more Questions about who these Engineers are... etc.
*We know and unless they are doing a U-Turn or we are to de-canonize Prometheus.. We know the Engineers and Space Jockey, the Derelict/Juggernaught and the Xeno/Bio Weapons on LV-223 are connected. We know the Engineers did not come from LV-223, and that place was just a Outpost they stored, maybe created or experimented on Bio-Weapons and that they did not do this on their own Door Step.... so how did such a Weapon end up on Paradise.
*We see no signs of the Engineers, yet they are hinted to play a role in the Xeno, and related Biology, never mind the creation of Mankind and Life in the Galaxy (maybe only those who saw Prometheus would known this). Do they simply leave the Fact Paradise is a place that has no inhabitants of the beings who used to be there.. or no answers to what had caused this place to once be a place where Ancient civilization had called it Home. And what happened to them.
*Having built such a back story for the Engineers, and now we are still going to the place these biengs came from and seeing a Organism Evolving they had played a part in its creation. How can they not cover this... from NOW and over the next TWO movies.
*Are they going to leave it a Mystrey like the Space Jockey was all those years ago? Even if they cover nothing, if Covenant is Canon to Prometheus then those who would have seen that movie would know its not a case of a Mystrey like the Space Jockey... but a Story they had strung Clues to then just completely avoid?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
*There will be a Chest Buster Scene that would be more gruesome than the 1979 Original
This update could be read into as maybe they are going more back to the Original Movie as far as a Horror vibe, and tense thriller roller coaster.... Alien showed us just one Monster hunting down the small crew of the Nostramo... Alien 3 carried this idea on a Prison Colony on Fiorina 161
To me i like to look into things deeply, and to me the comments by Ridley about a Chest Buster Scene that they intend will beat the Original would have to mean one of two things... which can evolve into more detail.
1) There will be multiple Chest Buster events at the same time, so the viewers are shown the horror of seeing maybe some taken ill Colonists in some kind of Medical Bay, and so maybe 2-4 who are infected and we see them all Chest Busted at the same time...
Then we see the crew hunted down by 2-4 Xenomorphs or related Organisms.... But we dont know how many people would be on the Covenant, its a Colony Ship and so i would assume its crew would be more than the Nostramos 6 Crew Members (inc Ash)... but how many would a Colony Ship have? I would say they would need 1X Captain Role, 1-2 Medical, 1-2 Pilots, 1-2 Engineers so that would be a Core of 4-7 plus Colonists which could include Children and so we have to assume at least another 5-10. We cant know for sure but i would assume we would be looking at a Total of at least 12 and upto 25 would be my Guess.
But seeing more than one Chest Buster would only work, if its a Scene that we see multiple people being chest busted at the same time... why in The 1982 Thing movie the Blood Test Scene was the most intense... for similar reasons.
The only other ways for a Alien Topping Chest Buster Scene are one of these Two. (or combined)
2) The Scene happens to someone we have made a connection too and so Shaw, or it is done to a Child.
3) The Scene is either done with a different Chest Buster, but Ridley hinted we would see all 3 stages of the Monster, and its Origins but the Origin Clues could be done at a different timeframe.. i.e thousands of years ago... and what we see in Alien Covenant is a Evolution and slightly different Chest Buster..... one that has a more gruesome way of breaking out of the Host.
As we have all scene the Chest Buster and depending how this is shown... i.e 1) or 2) if neither of those routes are taken then how different can a Classic Chest Buster Scene be over the old one from Alien?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
So i am going to follow the above regarding the "improved and more gruesome Chest Buster Scene" as something they want to showcase as a Money Shot moment from the Movie, something they plan to Top the Original...
And if this is SO SPECIAL..... seeing it done a few times would Water it Down....
So maybe the comment Ridley has made would indeed lead us to maybe there would be ONLY ONE MONSTER..... as far as Xenomorph goes... thus going back to something like Alien.
We may see more than one Monster if we are being shown different timeframes, or flash backs... but as far as what ever Horror that the Unaware Human Colonists on the Covenant stumble upon... i think it would have to be just One Monster at least to start... or One as far as a Chest Buster related to that time frame.
I could be wrong... but if Ridley shows us a truely horrific Chest Buster Scene that shows us one Monster on the lose.... latter having a few more Chest Buster events may take the Shine off what ever they have Special Planned.
So i read into this Clue that we are going the route of maybe for the most part seeing just One Monster Stalking and Killing the crew of the Covenant.... Maybe they could show us this Creature as having a Life Cycle extention... i.e we see it Lay Eggs or Egg Morph the Crew.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I can see David getting involved with the chest burster scenes. David can tell them their scans show 'nothing out of the ordinary' after many of them were 'facehugged'.
David 8 "You all seem to be just fine....Now a little rest...."
David slipped up by telling Shaw she was pregnant.....He should have let her find out for herself and David would have had a wonderful specimen to examine.......What if Shaw had the baby? Stomach burster!
I think HEAD BURST would be cool...Maybe they force the baby xeno back the way it came? Pop!
Headbuster..... yes that would certainly be spectacular.
As far as David and Shaws Pregnancy we have to remember, David can not directly lie, he can use methods to side step things that prevent certain things happening. We have to assume he could not simply spike Holloways Drink.... he had to allow Holloway to give him a reason to do so.. i.e "how far would you go to get your answers" Holloway replies "anything and everything" We do have to bare in mind that Davids intentions were premeditated, he came into that room with the Goo on his finger and so he was just looking for a way to Justify his Actions.
I do think David has a little more free will then the crew would have liked to think, and now his Master is Dead he is Free, and maybe after having his Head Torn off there could be Damage to him that leads to certain protocols regarding behaviour of the Androids to be compremised... mind you Ash was also a bit Twitchy as Bishop put it.
I think the premise of the Synopsis sugests the Covenant Crew are completely unware of LV-223 the Horrors, the Engineers Cargo and what ever is Evolving on Paradise.
I think its also unlikely David would infect multiple crew Members without getting caught, i would think the route Ridley is going is that the Covenant Crew will be just as unprepared for what is going to happen just as the Nostramo and Prometheus crews were.
Maybe thus non of the Covenant Crew are infected? Maybe only Shaw is infected or a Engineer?
If David infects Shaw... this could back up the Synopsis.... maybe they find David, and then he informs them of Shaw and how she has suffered some complications due to their journey and if the ship has a medical bay they can take Shaw onboard..... I would assume David has to persaude them to allow himself to conduct all tests and care of Shaw, as he would not want any prying eyes on what the crew are taking onboard....
This assumes... this is how Shaw plays into it....
I wont buy them allowing another movie to show Crew being so stupid to allow something onboard.... however we have to remember Ripley wanted to prevent it in Alien and it was Ash with his Agenda and Special Order 937 and in Prometheus it was David again a Android who was the one pulling the Strings.
So again maybe David gets involved again, i think this is Garunteed... but i am not sure that the Covenant crew would take onboard a Xeno Egg.... But who knows maybe a Colony Ship has less Safety Protocols and maybe it has less trained Staff than the Prometheus did?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think a lot is open to be honest... we cant be sure... yes Ridley said we shall see them all Egg, Face Huger and Chest Buster then Big Boy...
Lets not forget Prometheus showed us a Egg.... in the fresco only on screen we did not see it but for a fraction of a second and it was partially disintegrated.... Lets not Forget Prometheus only showed us ONE LAST Engineer as far as Live time of events.... but we had the Sacrifical Flash Back Scene, that the extended one showed a Elder... and the more extended one we never saw showed two up close and another 5-6 in the distance.... Lets not forget the Hollogram Scene showed some 8 Hologram Running Ghost Engineers and latter 4 Engineers in the Juggernaught Pilot/Orrey Room.
So we can not assume the Xeno in all its guises is set within the time of 2104 and Covenant... so that leaves Covenant Timeline to show us something New and Fresher... thats based off the Xeno that has Evolved?
Or maybe not.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Well, I certainly hope David has moved on from being a slave. Weyland is dead...no more cleaning his feet or picking up after the crew. I wonder if he can re-program himself? Maybe taking up human traits such as lying, cheating and murder. I would suspect the android Bishop has some chilling stories to tell about the David android series!
Does the Covenant have children aboard? Aliens/Cameron didn't seem to have any problems sending kids into space(LV-426!)
I hope they don't go down this path(and no teenagers please!)....Like to see just adults.
I will try to add some to this, hopefully it won't be a mess.
First Paradise: Paradise for who? If we mean that Paradise is something nice then nice depends on your point of view. Let's say that it is the home base/planet of the Engineers then maybe the Engineers have a different view of what Paradise is. Is the disaster just at one part of the planet or at the whole planet?
Let's say that they find Paradise then I would like to know how does it look like? How is the Engineer society structured/built up? What role does religion play? How is their society based political speaking (I think for example about the Elder Engineers that I think that they had in a cut scene from P1 about the Engineer that sacrificed itself)? Do they have science? Do they have art?
The Xenomorph: It would be cool if they explain some bits about it but maybe not everything. I feel that good movies while being logical at least when it comes to sci-fi need some mystery also. They probably need to explain it in a clever way or else many might be let down. One problem is that it has been done many times now so how is it possible to make it interesting?
I would like if David has a bigger role in this movie. Shaw isn't very interesting, sorry. Hopefully they will have better characters this time that don't do stupid things (petting a space snake, getting lost despite being a map expert) and that are characters that you care for. Too many characters in Prometheus were simply badly written or if it was edited so it became that way. Prometheus was alright but it could have been so much better so hopefully they have learned something this time.
Thanks for comments, firstly and while be off Topic.. yes Prometheus the Characters where not so well written, but a number where merely Plot Devices to be canon fodder or play no real role.... only Characters who played a roll are... David, Shaw, Weyland, Vickers, Holloway, Milburn, Fifield, Janek, Ravel, Chance and Ford... Thus other 8 Characters were Throw Away Plot devices... You could argue that Ford, Chance and Ravel also fall into this Category.... but Aliens also had a lot of throw away Characters... Main Characters in Order i feel was Ripley, Hicks, Bishop, Newt, Burke, Hudson, Gorman, Alpone and Vasquez with Drake, Fero and Spunkmeyer being kind of throw away Characters the rest was just Plot Devices.
But yes the Characters in Prometheus could have been done better, some scenes are bit khorny and not serious for a serious Sci Fi Movie..... many was never used to well.
As far as the stupid things, well Lindeloffs draft had better explanations for such stupid Scenes. Milburn and Fifield forgot the Map... they thought each other had it and it ws Fifield who was HIGH of what ever he was smoking who picked up the Hammerpede.
I think Ridley would learn from their mistakes... and maybe the cast and thus crew of the Covenant would not be so large? But i would still think a Ship would need at least 1X Captain, 1X Main Pilot, 1X Medic, 1X Mechanic thats 4 and then i would say at least another 6 Characters that would include at least The Hardman/Merc, the Fool/Joker, The Selfish/Back stabber, and at least one maybe two Science related Roles and off course the David double be that a synthetic or not.. so yes that would be 9 Crew at very least.... then a few throw away canon fodder characters... i would say at least 3-4 and so yes i think we would see at least 12 Crew, which i think for a Colony Ship we would need at least 10 crew... with at least 4 to be Female. So i can Assume we have..
F) Daniels-- Captain or joint Captain Role
M) Pilot who may play Captain or joint leader role
M) The Hardman Role... maybe joint leader?
F) Medic.. always go to be a naughty nurse.. of not then Female play Science role.
M) Mechanic... well main one tasked with fixing the Ship.
M) Science related Role.
F) Science related Role.
M) The ****ey joker role, who could be extra Pilot, Science team or Mechanic?
M/F) One who has a Agenda or selfish nature who only cares for themselves.
Then i think a extra 3-4 other crew maybe of which at least one must be Female..
This is just a guess mind ;)
So yes if so i hope the main 9 (min) Crew members and the David doppelganger are more well written..
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
As far as Paradise Goes... lets explore the Clues....
Ridley claimed Paradise is a Dark and Sinsister World... he claimed its not nothing like what you would expect from Paradise, these claims Ridley has made over the years.
The Engineer claimed he came from a place, that David said we refer to as Paradise, and now we have to then think in context of the Plot what does this mean? It means as far as the place where the Gods/Creators came from.. if we look at the context of the Bible it could mean the place where creation was made, and where Mankind was created before our Fall and then expulsion from Paradise..... this does not have to mean its a place like the Garden of Eden or like Heaven at all, it does not have to be nothing more than a Science Lab.... which LV-223 was also such.
Rappace said they are off to a World, and may find God or the Devil and so the place may not be a Heaven or Paradise but more of a Hell.... this does not have to mean Fire and Brimstone as in the Bible... or a Garden of Eden/Heaven Paradise.... it could be like LV-223 and sinsister and dark or maybe the motives are as such rather than the worlds Topography!
Ridley said that he had some ideas for a Aliens Sequel after Alien, where they would have expanded on who the Space Jockey was, and he claimed they always felt LV-426 was Paradise but Paradise does not have to be anything but dark and sinister.
Ridley has been touching upon Ancient Culture and Bible and Greek Mythos as far as Gods and the Engineers Connection and so Paradise could be a interpretation of the place these Gods came from... but again this does not have to be a splendid Garden of Eden Paradise but it does not have to be a Burning Lake of Fire Hell.... it could be quite plain.. like LV-223. The Paradise Lost Link could also go hand in hand with that.
However... we also have to look at the following...
The Crew of the Covenant thought they would discover uncharted Paradise... which has to mean a World that does not require as much Teraforming, in other Words a World that as far as to use as a new Colony is Perfect, and so Earth Like World... but they arrive at a Scene of Disaster and a Dark and Dangerous World. This could imply it was once a Place more like a Garden of Eden and Earth Like Paradise.. but it is no Longer...
The description of how they are going to use Monumental Forest and Rock to me implies the Topography of the World.... maybe as in the past before what ever Distaster took place to make the world as it is when the Covenant Crew arrive (maybe prior to David too) and could explain why the Homeworld of the Engineers... is Baron and Void of Life. (apart from a evolving creature and David).
So i would assume that Paradise was indeed a Paradise prior to the Fall of Man, and Fall of the Engineers and what ever War or Calamity befell such Ancient Race who play a key role in creation in the Galaxy and maybe Paradise was once the Cradle of Life... but no more...
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
"Do they have science? Do they have art?"
This is very evident... they are masters of Science... their ships, their Technology is very advanced, they played a key role in the Manipulation of Genetic Material and DNA to create Life on Earth and Evolution of Mankind not only as far as Genetically but Technologically and maybe also Cultually and Religiously.
(Nevermind creation of Evil Bio Weapons and Biology).
They hold Ritual Purpose very high, Religon and Worship too, they are very proud of what they create and the role they play... The Head Statue, the Mural and Frescos show this... but these also show a Artistic Side to such a Race. Musical Art could play a key roll aswell, but with intruments and soundwaves playing bigger role than just a Melody as we have.. The movies clues lend to this.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
BigDave: I also got the impression that he (Fifield) was high he said something like “Huh Tobacco? Yeah sure (*grin*).” The question is if people do such stupid things while being stoned and besides it could have been done in a better way. People can be fools sure but if they do such things and are supposed to be educated scientists then you got to explain why and not cut it out or else it just looks weird. I think that I have seen a cut scene on Youtube where they explain that better, which should have been in the movie so it would have made some sense.
Large crew: To me this isn’t very important that there are many characters. What is important is that they are well written and that you can sympathize with them something that I couldn’t do with Fifield and Milburn because they came off as stupid in the movie. I think that there were also two characters that were named Chance and Ravell but I could never get into their characters because they were just badly written and not very interesting. 22 crew persons as long as they are well written it is OK. If you look at Aliens they (marines and so on) all had different personalities which worked so it could also work this time.
Paradise: I haven’t read that part of the Bible that much so I can’t really compare that to what paradise in Alien covenant could be like but it is always interesting to compare things. A science lab could be cool like the Engineers being creators of life (which we could see in the opening scene of Prometheus with the Engineer and the water).
Heaven and hell: I think that people have always had their own idea of what these two things are since we cannot prove how they look like. Who is to say that paradise is like the garden of Eden with the fruit and that which we can see in some churches? The forbidden fruit could also be used as a metaphor in Alien Covenant however they might use that metaphor in the movie.
The planet: Yeah that was also what I thought. It could have been nice before so the planet got the name Paradise but then something very bad happened so it became like a disaster which I think Ridley said. When David and Shaw get to Paradise it is bad.
When I wrote the science and art comment I was mainly wondering how that would look like. They probably have an advanced society if they can create life on other planets. Of course we can’t be sure until we see the movie but I would like if the showed us some of that. I remember the big head in the room and I also remember the hologram (that is the word right?) with the Engineer playing a flute so those imply something like that.
Yeah with Fifield, i think it could have been done a bit better, the movie just never seemed too serious in many ways Characters where played out, we can see Lindeloffs hallmarks with this.. including the Vickers Robot, come in my room and find out... again i felt this was a scene that was not needed.... But at the end of the day this movie People had to die, we had to have Plot elements to drive the Plot along.... Fifield and Milburn behaved silly had they not, then we would maybe not have been shown the Hamerpedes having Acid for Blood, or Fifield falling into the Black Goo to then allow them to show what effects the Goo has on Fifield. Just what happens in movies but it could have been done better.... Most Horror movies we see people die from doing stupid things that as a viewer you would be like.. "dont split up" or "dont open that door" etc but they are necessary to the Plot.
I hope Covenant they can make these Plot Devices (death of the Crew) more better, like in Alien as yes Bret was pretty dumb too, but then he was a Space Trucker and at that point had only seen the Alien being the size of say a Cat... had he knew a 7ft plus Monster was on the lose he would not have wandered off to check out those places on his own.
The crew size, i think its unknown at the moment, i think it has to be larger than Alien as a Colony Ship and one that is expecting a Earth like Paradise, would certainly take more than a few Crew.... But if Ridley is going for a more Alien movie by giving us something more of a Horror/Thriller again... then i think a Smaller Crew works best... because we can then see the Monster pick them off one by one.. and what made Alien work was because we did not see the Monster much on screen, it was always the fear of the unknown.. the not seeing that made it as effective.... and so a Crew of between at least 8 and no more than 12 would have to be ideal..... It depends what kind of movie Ridley wants to give us... Prometheus and Alien 3 and Alien R gave us more of a Canon Fodder movie in how the Humans were killed... they needed a number of throw away deaths..... Aliens did the same in a disapointing way in how so many all died after the Ammo Bag got blown up, and i was equally disapointed in how Fifield took out a lot of the Prometheus Crew.
I think Ridley may want to go back to a more Alien take on taking out the Crew.. and to add fear and horror we need to make more of a connection with the Cast and also not be shown the Monster full on, in a killing spree like Fifield and the Engineer was... and for this to work.. it would require a Smaller Cast so 10 Tops i think.
As far as Science and Art goes, yes i think these are important to the Engineers... they are very Advanced and they are very proud of their achievements... and that is why they make such Monuments, and Paintings and Murals to showcase ritually what their race has created and how great their accomplishments are.... and so if Paradise is where they come from... i would think maybe these Engineers would like to Showcase themselves Pretty Much like Ancient Greeks as far as Gods and Egyptian Faroes did. With a Giger Twist!
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
As far as Heaven/Hell and Paradise... Ridley said they was taking some themes from John Miltons Paradise Lost Book.... The book that re-tells some of the Fables of the Bible, as far as the Fall of Man (Eating of the Forbiden Fruit) The Fall/Rebelion of the Angels... Satan and Demons. And also about Gods Punishments to those Fallen Angels and Mankind and how eventually their is Redemption for Mankind.. but never for the Fallen Angels.
But this would be loosely... the movie like Prometheus while it touches on themes, it does not do them in a Literal Sense.... There wont be no Single God who lives in a realm in the clouds of heaven... and there be no Devil who lives bellow Earth in a Place that is a Lake of Fire.
But it certainly does not rule out a Fraction of Engineers Banished from the Place of the Gods, to a World that is more of a Hell as far as the Agenda and Sinister motives... We cant be sure how deep they are going with he Connections.... or after the Alien: Covenant name change.
But i had a source inform me about supposed leaks from the Draft that Paglen and Green had worked on the draft that was finished as of October 2014... but this could just all be false information and i had made a thread upon this... but yes they did say the idea of the Franchise was to Loosely tie in things such as the Forbiden Fruit, with the Fire of Prometheus.... and that the Fruit is something the Engineers and Mankind was not supposed to use, it is Forbiden for them.... but the Engineers use it as far as bieng Pawns to the Agenda of a Higher Power and the use of the Forbiden Fruit/Fire..... and that the Engineers Stole it for use for themselves as they wanted to be as Gods themselves.... The Fruit/Fire is the Origin of the Black Goo.
This does seem to match what Prometheus was trying to show us... but it was all to be taken with a Pinch of Salt... but some leaks was very specific with regards to stuff that never quite fitted with Prometheus.... but then Months latter Ridley came out with comments that seemed to fit with these leaks.... but alas we cant be sure if they was true and as Alien Covenant seems to be going a different route to them and also everything Ridley had said about the Sequel prior to the Summer. I guess we cant consider them as connected and maybe we will never know if there is any Truth..... unless the earlier drafts ever get leaked... like the Two for Prometheus were.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I think the crew of the Prometheus like the Nostromo, are misfits, rogues, soldiers of fortune...probably don't have a family and don't care if they waste 4-20 years of their lives in deep space. The majority of humans are not going on this journey. I'ts probably very difficult to hire talented people. "Sorry sweetheart, daddy's going away for 10 years....have fun in school...hope you graduate all the levels! Tell mom not to cheat on me! lol! .......Oh and don't get married, have kids, then die before I return!"
The crew of the Prometheus were never told what the mission was UNTIL they arrived! Can you imagine signing up for this? Where are we going? Can't tell you. What is the mission?! Can't tell you....but....after you've spent 2 years in cryo, we'll tell you....if you survive. Sign me up!
Nostromo crew was very much the same....Who are these people? Why would you choose this job? Who did Dallas kill to get this assignment. Sorry Dallas, it's the Nostromo or prison.
Fifield would be exactly someone I expect to take that job. Loner. Can't fit in. Just give me the money.
What about the crew of the Covenant? Why are they doing this? Is Earth that bad?
I think a explanation also that could have been more covered if they fleshed Vickers Character and Dialog a bit.. is what if she wanted her Fathers Wishes to Fail..? If this mission fails then she gets the Company.... she did not like being dragged all that far so that her father can go and meet some Ghosts.......
So a explanation would be she picked the crew, she made sure the Pilots and Captain were Good, she made sure the Mercs and Mechanics and Medics where Good... and as far as Science Team she made sure she Employed a desperate bunch of degenerates.
Milburn seems over enthusiastic, yet a bit of a cop out as far as a Expert in the field of Biology, so what if Vickers picked someone who was not really up to that task and Milburn is just over the Moon to had been picked knowing there was so many other better candidates! This could explain some of his Actions.
Fifield was just a Ransom Man, a Journey Man and he was only in it for the MONEY, he may have had a past track record with being unreliable, forgetful and having problems with getting along with people as well as problems as far as following orders and off course being High as a Kite and off his Face..... The Draft gives bit more background to his Character that would more fit the above... and so yes Fifield would fit this role as being Totally only interested in the Money and unreliable.
Just as you hit the nail on the head with MonsterZero
As far as the Covenant Crew, well i would imagine they know more about their Mission than Prometheus crew did... i would assume that they was off to the Location of some world that had a massive potential to support life and be very Earth Like as far as potential for very little Teraforming.
I would imagine they have surveyed many worlds, and comming across Worlds that could potentially host a lot of Life and have a Topography very close to Earth and so very similar to the Primordial World that we saw the Sacrificial Scene Take Place.
What Human would not want to be a part of such a History Making Event.
I would thus assume we have a crew as follows.
Captain/Leader Role (possible Daniels?)
Deputy/Leader Role (possible Daniels?)
Min 1X Pilot
Min 1X Mechanic
Min 1X Medical
Min 1X Scientist Biology
Min 1X Scientist Geologist
Min 1X Corperation Type Investor (Greedy and Selfish)
A Hardman Merc Type
The Joker/Fool type... but they could fit into any of the other roles..
So i would assume we would look at a 10 Human Crew with at least 3 Females. I cant see a Colony Ship having less than this.
I doubt they would have a Crew of more than 15 nevermind 20 or so (not inc Synthetics) especially if Ridley is not maybe going for a Xeno Killing Fest Movie but trying to being some of the Horror and Scares that Alien had...
Unless only 5-8 are killed in the movie and the rest survive for a sequel?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Yes, I think at least a crew of 10-15. (Keeps down production costs...actors are expensive.) I think crew size also depends on the size of the Covenant. The ship could be carrying human embryo's(like Nolans 'Interstellar') and they expect to 'seed' Paradise. So maybe they are a small crew.
It could be a huge ship with thousands of humans, all in cryo sleep, ready to be awakened when they reach Paradise!
So I think a good portion of the crew might be left in cryo-sleep, until the plot calls for them.
Fifield and Millburn and being necessary to the plot. Yeah but that could have been made better. I am not buying the being necessary to the plot because it could have been done better, I suppose they made this movie with the intention that it would be smarter than A Nightmare On Elm Street because that behavior could be understandable in a movie like that but in Prometheus at least I expect the characters to be smarter.
Vickers just seemed like a character that wasn’t really well thought out. Yes she had a role in the mission and that she never got the attention from her father the way David had. I understand that part, maybe that affected the mission but they could have made that character better and not just some greedy person at a big company (“a king has his reigns and then he dies” = Weyland would die and then she would be in charge of the company, that is my way to look at it which is Vickers is greedy). One thing that I think really sucked was when the captain (which was actually a character that I think was good, I got to admit that) asked if Vickers was a robot, that part just felt embarrassing like “Ugh! Really? Is that the best you could come up with?”.
Sure you will have to find ways to make the story move along but you also got to think about how that is made to make it interesting and sort of convincing something that this movie lacks too much of. Obviously you can make it work (alien and aliens for example) but this movie didn’t manage to do that well.
You mention Brett but he wasn’t a scientist. He felt more like a randomly picked crew person so therefore you wouldn’t expect as much from him as you would do with two scientists that are supposedly persons with training to deal with an environment like that. Maybe it is safe to say that the more education you have to deal with situation X the more convincingly you got make the death sequence in order to not make the person look like an idiot.
Crew size: Wouldn’t that also depend on what kind of movie he wants to make? If they go for horror a smaller crew might work but if they go for sci-fi a bigger crew might work. I like both sci-fi and horror it is just that they got to decide what kind of genre they want to do. At least you got to have some characters that we (the viewers care for).
I understand what you say that it is more effective if you don’t see the monster but I wonder if it would still be scary in 2016/2017. The question is what people get scared about today and these things change over time, you know? Maybe more effort is being needed to scare people now? You mention how Fifield killed people I didn’t get disappointed by that except they should have used the cgi version, I was more disappointed that he acted stupid when he was a human character. The CGI monster was way better than what we got in the movie but the CGI version could probably have been done better as well.
Yeah in order to create horror you got to care about the characters plus make their death gruesome I just wonder how you could make that work and at the same time avoid it from being another Alien copy. Some familiar things are alright but I would like to see some new things also I don’t say that it is an easy task I just wonder how they can make that work. A smaller cast makes sense.
A Gieger version of Faraoes, that would be cool. This is something that could be very interesting if it is done right. Maybe they can be like huge cruel scientists with a God complex? They could have some labs where they are doing horrifying experiments, something that they can control to a huge extent but if the experiments go wrong you got to explain that in a convincing way. How are these semi-Gods (Engineers) killed by their creations (Xenomorphs, etc.)?
I think that they could elaborate a bit more about the black goo even though they might not tell us everything about it.
Yeah, I understand what you mean. I hope that the crew on Covenant (if that is the ship) will be made better so that they will be in it for more than the money and that they will be better characvters. As far as Interstellar goes I can't comment because I haven't watched it.
Yeah, Fifield and Millburn could have been written as sympathetic characters and theirs deaths might have meant more/something: ------>
Millburn: "Hi, I'm Rafe, Rafe Millburn"
Fifield "Nice to meet you Rafe, My names Sean, Sean Fifield"
Milllburn "Well...What brings you out here Sean?"
Fifield " Money mostly...I need as much as I can...I have a daughter back home that needs a operation and this was about the only big credits anyone was handing out..."
Millburn "Whoa...That's too bad..sorry man...I have a couple of daughters of my own...can't imagine if they got sick.."
Fifield "Yeah..it's been rough on the family...But...I'm gonna do this job and get home to them as fast as I can...I already miss them..."
I think a little scene like this would have helped.
Monster Zero: I agree, sure he was in it for the money but there is probably a reason why he was that way. They could have had an explanation to it for example he could have said:
"I am in it for the money because (X Y Z)."
That would have made it more interesting. Sure he might have been greedy but there is always a reason why people are the way they are. This was not only about Fifield and Milburn because all the characters could have been done better which is one of the problems that Prometheus had. Let's hope that they have better characters in Alien Covenant but this is something that they should have understood by now.