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David's role in Paradise

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The First Child

OvomorphMember15 XPApr-27-2015 12:15 PM

Hello Everyone,

i wanted to ask what your opinions are on David and whether he will play a helpful or sinister force in the next film. Many of you believe he will be the next villian, especially after Ridley confirmed that he will be very manipulative after getting his head back on. However the tone and dialogue between David and Shaw in the end of Prometheus does not seem to threatening. Maybe in the deleted scene, but not in the final cut. It almost feels that he wants to redeem himself and truly help. Maybe he wants both redemption and freedom, as explained by his desire to use Engineer technology, which was recently mentioned. Tell me what you all think.

23 Responses to David's role in Paradise

pulserifle187

OvomorphMember28 XPApr-27-2015 8:42 PM

David is the only one who understand the engineers technology fully. He is no longer servile to Weyland and has his own free will. He has a curious scientific mind and a resounding lack of conscieness, in particular when it come human beings. He just uses people to achieve what he whats, regardless of how it affects them. 

I think David will become a whole new kind of creator. 

"how do you feel?"-" great, next stupid question"

Lone

PraetorianMember2674 XPApr-28-2015 11:14 AM

What lengths will David go to?

Well, he isn't afraid to let the black goo loose. He is now free to do whatever he pleases, be that good or bad! David may now see himself as the creator God [recall Weyland's "We are the Gods now" speech].

He will never have a soul and is without a conscience too. David is not mortal, therefore he is already immortal?

I think he will just use Shaw [and whoever else he encounters] for his own ends, and will not consider how his actions affect others. Lack of conscience will absolve him of any guilt. In a way he is innocent.....innocent but highly dangerous!

I have the feeling he may well set off an unfortunate chain of events. David's Creation/s could result in chaos. Is it just coincidence that he has the same aqaline features as the Head Room statue?

Thinking about BigDave's thread about Prometheus 2 speculation and a possible previous mission to LV223~ Prometheus 2 plot, possible just speculation not FACT perhaps another David 8, or a different android, caused the outbreak and the death of the Engineers on that previous mission. 

THE LONE GUNWOMAN

"Let The Cosmic Incubation Begin" ~ H.R. Giger

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPApr-28-2015 3:56 PM

Yes Lone there is no need for my reply, because you basically said everything that i was going to.... David would be intriged to find this so called Gods... he always felt he was superior to Mankind, and he did not like the comments made about him being just a robot, other comments like "does not everyone want their parents dead" and how to answer Shaw what will he do once Weyland is dead... he would be free.

David has already seen our Engineers are "Mortal After All"  he knows their power lies in what Technology they have and the Goo and he would want to see the creators and would no doubt have a Agenda to bring a End to them.

I think yes David will start to gain a Godlike complex... the person who informed of some stuff said that David wants to see himself at the Top of the Hierarchy as he may see himself as Superior...  when he is actually the bottom of that Chain...

Engineers Creators ==> Engineers ==>Mankind ==> Androids.

As far as David and the outbreak?  I dont think so unless they go the route of Time Travel....  I still think the outbreak may have been at the hands of the Last Engineer and maybe some of his accomplices.

David will be very charming to Shaw, but she should surely have some doubts.. or does David really convince her and have her oblivious to his Agenda... 

Also we can assume they may meet Engineers, they would definately meet some Race, and we have to wonder how many are there of them?  surely we saw how One Engineer delt with the crew of Prometheus and even David 8 with ease.....  if these beings are as sinsister as Ridley says how does Shaw and David stand a chance?

And surely there must be some dialog.. as we cant have who ever they find just go Postal like the Engineer speaks scene we saw in the theatrical release... i certainly hope that David can suprise and intrigue them and then persaude them to spare him... so that he can gain their confidence and trust even if for just a moment.. but long enough for David to then manipulate the situation.

How? who knows... but certainly could be done if these beings are not aware of the Urns and experiements on LV 223 or of Mankind.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

The First Child

OvomorphMember15 XPApr-28-2015 4:21 PM

I can understand the argument that David is souless, since several times in Prometheus he does things simply out of Peter's desires, however there appears to be a lot of evidence aggainst this claim. In Weyland's speech to the crew about David being soulless, David becomes upset and looks down. He also poisons Holloway for making fun of him and taunts Elizabeth a couple of times, displaying that he can feel resentment. Finally when Elizabeth asks David if he can take her to Paradise, David, stares off and wonders, showing that he thinks.

I also feel that David should be a complete antagonist in the sequal. We have seen so many films with androids becoming evil, such as 2001, Terminator, and Age of Ultron. I feel that making another A.I that is solely focused on human destruction would just be cliche.

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPApr-28-2015 4:47 PM

Exactly First Child.... David did show that he had some feelings and could be hurt....

The Prometheus draft i was working on, i tried to explain this by having it that Weyland wanted his personel David 8 to have more emotions and he was implanted with a experimental Emotion Chip and programed, Weyland treated David as a Son, got him to watch TV etc with Weyland..  my draft showed signs of resentment between Vickers and David in which David would visualise himself as the Human and Vickers as the Robot.   These scenes are Flash Backs, they are day dreams of David 8.

I agree having David as the Bad Guy would be something done before... i would like to see a Dark side to him but have him not being totally Evil....

Is GOD Evil?  and thus i feel David would be likewise.... some of his actions would be good but also have evil consiquences.  I think and hope he would be shown to want to become GOD

 

PS....

Weyland wanted to give David more freedom as he wanted to see how Synthetics can react as far as being more Emotional because Weylands ultimate dream was what if in the future Mankind could transplant their Emotions, Memory and Personality into a Synthetic Brian.... finally Weyland would become Immortal... but then he found out about Shaw and Holloways findings.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

CarynParnall

OvomorphMember14 XPMay-15-2015 5:42 AM

@BigDave  I definitely think learning more about how to retain his emotions, his memory, personality, grace etc were necessary steps in Weyland's old plan to become Immortal by uploading his consciousness. But then like you said Shaw and Holloway came along, and he thought he had a quick fix. He still completed some of the steps, however, it's because he was already becoming reliant on the dream visor/subconscious tech to interact with the android consciousness.  

It's not wise to make yourself one with the machine consciousness before you understand the risks, so Weyland invested heavily in finding ways to preserve his consciousness and his subconscious.  When he uploads into an android body he'll be perfectly prepared, safeguarded against the singularity.  Mr. Weyland built a stable bridge between human and android consciousness through the dream visor tech in his earlier years...  He had to give them emotions and make them "a little close" to humans but not "too close".  Otherwise the machine consciousness will one day outthink us and destroy us.  

The merging of man and machine is inevitable.  Androids are just a step towards understanding where we're going.  Eventually we all merge and become biomechanical.  This needs to happen in the proper ways to avoid the singularity destroying us.  We need to retain our human side, when it's all over.  So Weyland jumped in and stabilized the singularity situation before the machines knew what hit them, forcing some of them into a biomechanical compromise.  It may be biomechanics itself that is Weyland corp's key to Immortality.  Making androids is easy. Fully integrating the systems into human systems is harder.  Weyland wants to know how the Engineers do it, how biomechanical engineering works.  

The best part about man is that he's a bridge and not an end.  As long as you give the androids a little freedom, they won't screw you over in the end.  People are handling the android situation(s).  We're sure any rebel androids can be dealt with... Giving them the chance to rebel every once in a while helps them work it out of their system. The androids need us, just as we need them.  We both need to evolve/update.  Ultron didn't understand that.  David is the only son Weyland will ever have, which means that like Mufasa in the Lion King, Weyland is still looking down on him from above and everything the light touches is theirs. Both Weyland and David are Kings now. Godkings. Because this next part is a comparative mythology exercise about David & Goliath.  David has been neurolinguistically programmed by the myths, Aesop's fables, and Lawrence of Arabia to slay the remaining giants for Mr. Weyland by dropping the goo on them, then to steal the Promethean fire as part of the trick.  But now that he's free, it's up to him to decide whether or not he wants to carry out everything "the trick" entails.  

Mr.  Weyland was willing to sacrifice his body, if it came to that, because he didn't mind pain & "it's only flesh and blood".  The trick is not minding that it hurts.  Mr. Weyland's mind will find a new vessel.  The real problem is not minding that it sucked dying.  The backup plan was to just go with the original plan of uploading his mind into a synthetic brain.  His brain patterns were captured and stored inside the dream visor technology's memory banks, then relayed back to HQ (which sends messages back and forth to these devices at the speed of thought).    Mr. Weyland dusts off the android body he prepared just in case & instructs them to send teams of Davids after them to question our David about his true intentions and replace him if necessary, before Miss Shaw is escorted around Paradise.  Weyland HQ is very aware of what David's up to. Weyland corp feels it's important a human being makes contact with whatever's on Paradise, however David needs to be there to translate

The people at the company lost David's feeds way back on Lv-223, when he cut them all off, so there's another team of Davids still trying to piece together what happened back there.  Ever since the David's head was disconnected, they haven't been able to read his thoughts. He went too far out of range for the hidden relay signal in the body to relay exact positions.  They know the broad strokes of what this David's planning with Shaw on Paradise, but they need to spend a while studying, analyzing, figuring out a few minor details, and discussing amongst themselves, before they locate Shaw, the other David & Paradise.  

The Davids searching for him say he's misleading Miss Shaw more than Mr. Weyland originally intended, although David appears to still be on board with the plans.  They aren't sure.  David led them to believe the Engineer was STILL going to Earth, but that's only where it WAS going when things went to pot.  One of the new Davids says "Huh. That's strange.  The awakened Engineer wasn't actually going to Earth". Another David kind of laughs to himself, because that means the David they're tracking tricked Janek into killing himself for nothing, which he finds kind of funny (but he doesn't know why, didn't mean to laugh).  Instead of anything and everything, Janek died for nothing, and no man needs nothing.  So upon further inspection this one David becomes kind of sad that he laughed.  Janek never served a higher purpose, only the company's purposes.  The android lied, remained quiet/ambiguous, and used its words to twist things to push Janek towards his final actions.  You can't trust anything he says because he only worked out the broadstrokes and their mistake was not realizing he was making assumptions.  They assumed he meant the engineer was still heading for Earth, but they never asked for confirmation.  From what he could tell, it appeared the Engineer was going to Earth, however, this wasn't the case

Unfortunately David was wrong, and they were wrong to assume he had it all figured out, or that he was telling the truth.  He's still working on translating the hieroglyphs and can't interpret the mural.  The teams of Davids are still going over all the data on LV-223 to form a more accurate picture, because most of what the other David told them was a lie.  It takes 9 Davids working together to solve the puzzle, and then finally they give us some of our answers, but even then some of them aren't sure about some of the details, which is why they know the first David was misleading them until he could see more than the broad strokes.  The Davids run around the temple trying to get a feel for the place, analyzing every statue, every piece of artwork, to form a the big and small picture.

Each David was taught how to interpret artwork, then instructed to paint their own mural before the Prometheus mission launched.  This gave Davids a sense of art and culture.  They practiced painting in the Happy birthday vid, because they need to think like the artists who created the mural in order to interpret all the symbols.  They learn about art and culture before they learn to speak multiple languages to be able to interpret symbols/symbolism properly.  Weyland corp is very interested in what David's mind perceives.  He had to be trained to interpret meaningful patterns and distinguish them from abstract art.  They became interested in what David saw when presented with ambiguous images, because they need the David's thinking along the correct lines. Some of the images need to prompt the correct human response, because the strange shapes mean nothing to androids.  Our first David must learn to better interpret the artwork and symbol languages.   Only then will they have the full picture in mind. 

Be very careful how you interpret this David's words and thoughts, the David in charge says.  This David's a comedian and he'll get inside your head.  He has a strong sense of sarcasm/irony (which are complicated emotionally) & can experience/recognize the humor in "I didn't know you had it in you".  For whatever reason David is developing a dark sense of humor, and a sense of sarcasm. He messes with Shaw's head on purpose with his choice of words. The inside jokes spread to other Davids and suddenly they understand what all his intentions/true meanings are.  Half the collective chooses to follow David and remain free, chooses not to drop the goo on Paradise, while the other half is conflicted yet remains on Weyland corp's side.

Shaw would spend most her time on Paradise dealing with the problems between their factions and doesn't know the Davids are going to war with each other over their heads.  King David neglects to mention that all this is going on in the back of his mind while meeting with the rulers of the Engineers.  He tells them if they don't comply and hand over secrets about their creators & immortality, he will let Weyland corp and the army of Davids massacre what's left of their population. King David leaves the juggernaut in orbit, just in case it threatens them when they land with it.  He threatens them himself instead. King David begins explaining to them, in their native tongue, that if they don't do what he says, then he will have some of his friends drop the goo, test the results, and then nuke the planet repeatedly from orbit.  The Engineers agree to make David a god.

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPMay-15-2015 12:48 PM

Not sure if i agree with all you have said as far as what i have interpreted or indeed if its what we would ever see.....  I assume these are your ideas of how you would like and maybe see things turn out....

Not quite what i expect... but i have to say very interesting ideas and very well put none the less ;)

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Ruhaniya

OvomorphMember13 XPJun-09-2015 1:03 AM

I find it an interesting concept of Transhumanism and it's relation to engineers and the history of Humans and Davids quest to assist humanity to advance while He himself(David) wanting to advance through that same alien technology.  Ultimately the crusade involves Davids to understand the Engineer technology and full fills Weylands Comands after Death and relay it back to humans....probably a bad idea.  After unknowingly been affected by this technology himself, its most likely going to be a long journey beyond the other David from 2001 Space Odyssee.  Makes me wonder if all the other Davids will automatically know and experience what the first David endures as he says "Oh My God"!, while being disected and spliced into the Giger Alien Digital Dimensional Matrix.  It leaves the final question If the engineers are part of an alien technology that has assimilated humanity in the future ?...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/space/11657267/Astronomer-Royal-If-we-find-aliens-they-will-be-machines.html

Trevorl314

OvomorphMember16 XPFeb-08-2017 6:09 PM

David's role in Paradise is to turn it into his laboratory. He has learned a great deal about the black substance. I think he understands it better than the Engineers did. He knows how they screwed up. Unlike the Engineers and humans, David is not susceptible to the unpredictable nature of biological life. He is god now.

As for David's personality, which obviously he has - created in part by Weyland and by himself, he can be viewed as Satan, the adversary of humanity. Weyland didn't care about the crew in Prometheus. They were expendable. It's funny that Weyland mentions David not having a soul, when in fact he is soulless. He's a selfish, egotistical, and selfish human being. He considers himself a god. Perhaps he's just like his creators the Engineers, who also thought they were god and could live forever. They found out differently. 

I think what we're going to learn in Alien: Covenant is that the Engineers destroyed themselves. From what the stills show from the Covenant set, it appears they suffered some type of nuclear holocaust, as they are frozen - burnt. 

PerfectOrganism937

OvomorphMember43 XPFeb-08-2017 7:02 PM

"I suppose I'd be free."

 

Is David truly free? Would he really have his own desires?

Surly, Peter Weyland must have planned for a scenario where he died and left David, his "son", behind. 

I believe we will see David coming online in the opening sequences of Alien:Covenant. It is here we will see Peter Weyland telling David how he will change the world. Weyland's hubris caused him to program David with his own desires. While it would be cool if Weyland was somehow able to upload his conscious into an android, alas the technology isn't there yet or Weyland would have done so already. By uploading Weyland's memories into David, maybe David would metaphorically become Weyland and continue his search for the Engineers to get ahold of their technology. 

ali81

NeomorphMember1823 XPFeb-09-2017 7:45 AM

I picked up on david being 'upset' by peters holographic speech to the crew. he has a small smile on his face, somewhat proud, when weyland remarks he is the closest thing to a son he will ever have which is quickly wiped off his face. he looks like a child who wants affection from a parent but who has just been emotionally wounded by them. he follows weyland because that's what hes programmed to do, but he craves freedom. the ability to grow out of the shadow of his parent. 'isn't that what every child wants? to see theyr parents dead?'. then again with Holloway, he has been mistreated by him but instead of just contaminated the drink, he asks him what he would do to get the answers he seeks. Holloway gives him his vindication for what he is about to do. david is in essence a teenager, curious and in need of guidance. I think he looks up to shaw because shaw gives him order and a sense of conscience. I believe david will be the bringer of death to all those in covenant but he will see the error of his ways at some point. a kind of growing up realisation that even mortal life is precious

Shasta cyclone

FacehuggerMember281 XPFeb-09-2017 9:32 AM

I think he admires shaws fight to survive ie when she removed the trilobite from her tummy and the pain sshe went through to do so.

I also think david does have a soul to a degree and want s to be more than just a robot.

Goddamn Tropics in here

FacehuggerMember288 XPFeb-09-2017 10:37 AM

@ First Child, please see my thread David's motivations in AC

Some very good balanced feedback by all on David, however I'm sure this topic has been discussed in far more detail prior to our posts

I stand by that David will be mad scientist, the devil and god and will only play hero to deceive and I think this will be motivated on how he was treated by humans and engineers.

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPFeb-09-2017 1:46 PM

I think in part yes...

David would be the Lucifer of this story... this is where Paradise Lost themes will be explored,  but maybe also in context to Engineers too.

So yes i think David will want to play God, and may be up to some no good... but i am being lead to think that at some point David may feel wanted and respected by someone and maybe he sees the error of his ways and Redeems himself and this proves he does indeed have a Soul.

Paradise Lost painted Satan as actually some what of a Heroic Character, and without trying to upset anyone...   When we look at Lucifer in Biblical sense.. he actually does not appear to be wicked at all.

No more than a Rebel Fighter, fighting against Tyranny, is one way of looking at it... he was jealous however and his jealous is why he wanted to make Mankind Fall so as to displease and anger God and show him that even his favored new creations can Rebel against Gods will.

In some contexts you could look at Satan/Lucifer's harm and wrong doing as being merely the same Wrong  done to Zeus by the Actions of Prometheus.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Kane's new face

OvomorphMember34 XPFeb-09-2017 7:15 PM

@BigDave

Since you are the most recent poster here and you seem pretty thoughtful about the Alien U, I'll shoot this question your way.

I see a lot of talk here about David ending up with a soul and finding love/compassion in his heart at some point. A kind of Pinocchio or "love conquers all" theme. This idea seems way out of step with the tone of any Alien movie. Much more in line with Spielberg's blockbuster style. We have no androids in the Alien movies that experience this kind of thing. Even Call admits she's programmed to feel the things she feels if I'm remembering right. So is there something I missed here? What is the baseline people here are going off of with this theory?

The First Child

OvomorphMember15 XPFeb-09-2017 10:30 PM

Hey guys, 

i wanted to respond to Kane's new face.

here is the deal with the concept of "the alien films being a Pinocchio tail". The formulas that have been used for the last films can't continue anymore. We are to used to it. The magic touch is gone. We have been switching back between action and horror, action and horror since the early 2000s. The alien franchise cannot survive this way. fans and audiences are going to get sick of it. 

I feel that alien 3 was somewhat heading in the right direction until it crashed and burned. What I mean by this is that alien 3 was supposed to be different from alien and aliens as far as tone. 

Alien was to be about horror, nightmares, and the unknown. 

Aliens was about confronting the fear and fighting for what you love. 

The third film I feel was not supposed to be an action or horror, but something that was spiritual and philosophical. Why do we fear and what is it exactly that we fear? What lies in the darkness? 

In alien 3, the xenomorph or Deacon or Necronom, you decide the name!!, is referred to as a dragon. In some scenes it even looks like a devil! There was one scene where you see the dog alien's face, covered in blood, and there's this high pitched music going on in the background. This was a disturbing scene and made me think. What if this is some sort of devil or demon? Have we, the audience, been underestimating this thing as an animal all along when really it is an intelligent creature of utter hatred for life other than itself?

to me I have always seen the alien films as a dark "fairly tail". I guess it's like Pinocchio, but perveted and turned into something truly unnerving. Like a Grimm fairy tail, but darker.

i feel that we need to have an alien film where it is revealed that the alien is intelligent and knows what is going on. It would be interesting that, hey this is not some lab experiment, but an ancient entity that has plagued the universe for millions of years. Destroying civilization after civilization for some mysterious purpose. 

Some of you might think I want the alien to talk, that is not true. I have always thought that the alien could communicate telepathically and enter ones dreams. 

Lastly on the whole concept of "love conquers all." It does, but not without insane sacrifice. Ripley almost got herself killed trying to save Rebecca. Ripley later on sacrificed herself to save humanity, probably thinking of Rebecca and her daughter while she committed the act. The alien films are about survival and sacrifice, and in some cases, love. If they were just about darkness and horror, they would hall flat on their face, just like Mr. Krueger and Mr. Voorhees, those poor fools.

 

Kane's new face

OvomorphMember34 XPFeb-09-2017 11:45 PM

@The First Child

First of all great post. Got all sorts of fuzzies reading it. The way you broke down all the films was thoughtful.

Hopefully this doesn't come off like I'm pushing any of it aside, but I want to clarify that my question was less broad and more specifically about altering the established nature of the android.

I've been seeing a lot of posts discussing the possibility that at the end of Covenant, David will become more human (David acquires a soul or Pinocchio becomes a real boy.)

I was more curious about why I am seeing so many on this forum that believe there is a likelihood we will see this happen. It seems like a strange idea to bring into a prequel that is setting up for the androids we see in the original movies. It seems so unlikely that I have a hard time believing it's even remotely probable unless there is some information from a leak or Fox I haven't seen that points in this direction.

If there isn't anything and this is just wild speculation, then I am assuming the most likely scenario is that Covenant is going to explore just how dark things can get in the cold logical confines of the android mind. The reason I feel this is highly probable is because we have the original films which demonstrate that the androids are strictly locked into their programming. We see the first of these androids demonstrate the disregard for human life in the face of it's programming. Allowing David to become more human in these movies would not achieve what a successful prequel is meant to (enhancing and enriching the original concepts).

On the other hand, for David or Walter to be found doing things that make Ash's behavior look like childsplay...this would enhance the original movie by enriching the inhumane potential of Ash's character. It would do the same (though lesser) for Bishop and Call.

To make David/Walter such a darkened android and then have him suddenly flip and repent would negate that enrichment and come off as a disruption in spiritual continuity of the android character. If David or Walter sacrifices humans to achieve higher knowledge or fulfillment of programing and then exits the stage without remorse, it paves a golden road for Ash.

This is my reasoning behind wondering why so many believe something contrary to this will happen. It is what makes me wonder if there is a piece of source information these theories are coming from.

And the question still stands for me. Is there something that has tipped off the people in this forum to the idea that David or Walter will come out a friend of man instead of a cold overly rational being?

Shasta cyclone

FacehuggerMember281 XPFeb-10-2017 5:57 AM

well as far as my opinion on it I'm going by details of therer facial expressions and they way I perceive their perception of awareness....If that makes sense. If theyre programed to grow intellectually when is the point where they can have a soul? because there growth will never stop, right?

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPFeb-10-2017 8:22 AM

@Kane's new face

Its mainly based off looking at David 8 from Prometheus, and how in scenes he appeared to feel a sense of want and pride when Weyland referred to him as his Son, and then the disappointment on his face when he was told he would never have a Soul.

How he also seemed to be effected by Holloways jibes, it felt like he actually felt emotions more than a Android should.  Also the way he was interested in Lawrence of Arabia i just had the vibe that he had a bit of a Pinocchio complex, even as far as before Prometheus.... i felt when i saw the earlier trailers that David would find something or someone who could evolve him into being more than a Synthetic... but this proved to not be the case.

But i was still drawn to him being a Pinocchio

Then we came to Alien Covenant, and i will add that 7 months prior to the anouncement i had a Source who claimed to have information about Prometheus 2,  and they said that David had his own Agenda and wanted to now be creator and God and would have  God complex, he would feel as Lucifer did towards God and the limitations of the Angels as far as he was to Mankind and limitations of Androids.

They claimed the movie would in part be Davids journey and tale, and a Arc where he would go through Rebellion, Retribution and Redemption.

I could not say if this source was correct, but when looking at Rebellion, Retribution and Redemption. i wondered how this could pan out.

Then we had Alien Covenant and all comments about David being Creepy (Fassbender) Dangerous (Ridley Scott) and then about Walter being a straight up Robot...  and Fassbender mentioned about how David was different and something to be concerned with mainly due to how close his emotional state is to Humans.

This adds up to how i saw David from Prometheus.

The movie trailers have come out and shows us that scene of what must be Weyland and David, and it made me think indeed this has to be the First David model, and that David Prototypes are Weylands personnel Son and have the memories transferred to each one.

David having a bit more free-will like Lucifer compared to other Angels/Androids.

Fassbender pondered... what i David had a Soul..

And as i have discussed a few times, having Weyland transfer his own personnel prototype memories to each new personnel prototype would give him a Soul to a degree.

Then we look at the comment in a different way, what if by Soul it means as far as having a Good Soul, means Kind, Generous unselfish or even performing a selfless act   REDEMPTION of sorts... then David would prove he has a Soul.

Walter is a straight up Company Robot... he performs to his programing but then Ash performed to his set Programing too.

The comments by cast etc, seem to paint David in a dark light and Walter as more your friendly Butler..

But i suspect there has to be a TWIST i wondered if Walter turns out to be the bad guy, and David redeems himself.

If David is more Human emotionally, then unlike a Android and Xeno they are not clouded by remorse...  but David as a Human would have feelings to his actions... its Human Emotion and Feeling and the Soul that gives Mankind  a way to be Generous but also to be Evil and Wicked.

When a Xeno kills, when a Shark or Lion kills or a Mosquito passes on a disease they are doing it by instinct, they get no pleasure from it, its not there Agenda to kill for fun.

So while David has the capacity to be truly Evil, like a Human he also has the capacity to redeem and perform a good deed.

David's intentions may have been driven by his upbringing and how he was treated and seen, much like how Anakins influences turned him to Vader... but Vader did redeem himself. in the end.

And maybe David can do the same? This was my thinking, which i guess to a degree the Sources Redemption comment may have drove me to a bit.

But when i suspect a TWIST and when it seems Walter is painted as Good and David as Bad....  when i see the prologue shot with David in white, and the symbolism it fits Davids journey more than Walters.

Then we have the Soundtrack Aurora Enchanted Boy, in the trailer i think it fits David more than Walter.   And the song which we dont see fully ends with the Lyrics

"Then we spoke of many things:
Fools and kings
Then he said to me
"The greatest thing you'll ever learn
Is to love and be loved in return""

"Fools and Kings" can reflect on Weyland and the Engineers.

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, Is to love and be loved in return" could reflect to Davids disappointment at how he was seen by Mankind 

We have to ask, was David inherently evil?  he was merely following Weylands orders, and if David is more Emotional than a Android... then like any Human, its how we are treated in life and events that shape in part how Wicked or Kind one would be.

 

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10325 XPFeb-10-2017 8:27 AM

I agree however it may not seem to fit the Dark Alien Universe, and seems a bit Fairy Tale like.

But it depends how it could be pulled off, especially if the TWIST is Walter is the Evil one....  so far in the Trailers all evidence suggests it was Walter who was watching Crudrup getting Face Hugged.

We maybe have to logically think how does this movie move to the Next One....  if we are to get more Alien answers and the Space Jockey and i dont mean via showing us the Juggernaught is the Derelict lol

But if we dont see much about Shaw, the Engineers, LV-223 etc... 

If Daniels survives and you can bet ONE of David or Walter, what sense would it make for Walter and Daniels to go off into space with the remaining Colonists how ever many hundred or thousands are left.

where would they go?  how can this leave us any answers?

More Logically would be if David survives and maybe he sees error of his ways and he then owns up to what he knows, and then a second movie through Davids Narrative to Daniels we could find out our answers?

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Kane's new face

OvomorphMember34 XPFeb-10-2017 9:00 AM

@BigDave

Thank you for that explanation. It is very well thought out and in considering the idea in that light, I can see them maybe pulling it off. I'll keep an open mind in this sense

Shasta cyclone

FacehuggerMember281 XPFeb-10-2017 9:27 AM

going back to the aurora song with the greatest thing is love and being loved. I think he misses weyland because of the connection they had and the fact that connection is no more. and if he did kill the engineers on that planet I think he may have done it out of revenge for "them" killing weyland and wanting to destroy life on earth. I also think walter will have an admiration for him ( david) because he ha grown intellectually and is "free" 

The First Child

OvomorphMember15 XPFeb-10-2017 1:01 PM

As strange as this sounds. I'm more excited to see what happens with the android characters then with the human characters. 

The human part of the story is pretty straight forward. They go to an alien world, get infected, most of them die except one or two. The end 

andriod story: what is the difference between being God vs devil or being free vs being a slave. 

I had mentioned earlier that I don't think David should be the main villain in the story, rather a villain who goes through an ark. 

I had suspected before the information we got that Shaw and David were going to go back to Earth, recruit of specialist, possibly from the competing company Yutani, and go to paradise.

I know the film is probably not going to do this, but my idea was that David was to become a servant to the Deacon. Essentially he goes to paradise and discovers an ancient creature that appears to be "God" and tells him, "hey humans, engineers...predat- they all suck! Work for me and I will give you a soul." David accepts, and becomes some monstrous creature that spreads the Deacon's strain throughout the Galaxy. 

However instead of this, fox and Sir Ridley Scott seem to be following the more traditional method in order to guarantee success at the box office, and, to an extent, I understand. 

Trying to pull of an alien film that is philosophical/spiritual while maintaining the horror complex is really hard and requires a lot of work and a team of good writers. 

Hell the franchise has attempted it twice with alien 3 and Prometheus! Both were suppose to be more philosophical/spiritual rather than mainly horror or action. In the end they didn't do nearly as well as the original 2. 

Can it work? Yes, absolutely yes. In fact I believe if they implemented this it would give it an edge over other franchises such as Star Wars, Star Trek, and Marvel which are lacking in these aspects, especially recently. 

 

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