Alien Movie Universe

Ripley,Sulaco & Co. encounter/go into orbit around a black hole,somehow creating a paradox in space-time:2 Ripleys,2 Sul

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HyperNova

MemberOvomorphMar-25-2015 4:08 PM

Ripley,Sulaco & Co. encounter/go into orbit around a black hole,somehow creating a paradox in space-time:2 Ripleys,2 Sulaco's & Co. a paradox that has to be resolved - How...

I was watching Interstellar a few days ago and thought of the idea of seeing Ripley and Co. meeting themselves or encountering a giant stellar object(s) like was seen in that film or being caught-up like The Philadelphia Experiment in a convoluted, interstellar time-loop...

Think of the Sulaco crossed with moments of Interstellar when they encounter Gargauntua... How would fate (if it even exists) work to resolve such a paradox it helped to create in the first place? Somehow the temperal twin in every excact detail of the Sulaco and its remaing crew are duplicated - NO!!... NOT CLONED!!!

I want to be clear! No cloning here but from a parallax view-point multiple incarnations or in this case just duel incarnations are created as a result of the forward and back flow of space-time effects and relativity.

Again not to copy but drawing inspiration from Interstellar crossed with some temporal looking tech in Prometheus regarding the Engineer powering up the Juggernaught and all its exotic looking energies.

Two identical copies existing in the same volume of space-time creates a paradox, a bubble in the space-time matter stream, a paradox that nature (fate, if you will) will inevitably affect to self-correct to stem the flow in the particle stream.
 
Simple, we stay in continuity by one set of exact, time-continuim twins of Ripley, Hicks, Newt, Bishop and Sulaco and maybe an alien aboard who knows that encounter a black hole, or worm hole. Somehow two identical matches are created via a freak of nature and the ripples in time or in the local garvitational field(s) of the black hole/worm hole creates rivaling destinies where there are one then two Sulaco's then one, then three even, then two again and so on.

Think a little of the beginning of Tim Burtons Planet of the Apes but with more Interstellar/2001: A Space Odyssey gravitas applied to it.

One version of Ripley and Co. the one we are already familiar with crash lands as is already detrmined, or pre-detrmined perhaps by the hand of nature (and fate) upon Fury 161 as is stated by that film's continuity and go on to spawn the events of Ressurection, whilst tempraly IDENTICAL TWIN Ripley and Co. who travled into or near-to the event horizon of the black hole somehow emerge years and years, perhaps decades later making them age appropriate and only one Ripley and Co. can exist in one universe, this universe, our universe at any given time. The same matter cannot occupy the same point in space twice. At least at local levels, across cosmic distances perhaps the effect dilutes itself out. The paradox thus resolving itself. Time, space and continuim existng as one returning to normal.

Imagine crossing elements of Interstallar within the Alien universe, albeit for inspirational purposes and seeing those similar themes further explored in the up-coming Prometheus films...

In fact I would like to see that the reason the Engineers race has become so flawed and even lost is because they were dabbling in quantum singularities and mechanics that entrapped their people while some masterd the art, others are in a Phantom Zone like Superman II showing they wern't just into biological engineering, that was just the tip of the ice berg. But much grander scale type things such as temperal engineering, parallel dimensional crossing, tinkering with mirror universes and quantum star travel... (as a starting point!)

Thus, we resolve the double Ripley and Co. paradox while maintaing continuity and without resetting any timelines we effectively begin anew while staying true to the already established Alien Universe...

 

23 Replies

sp_jockey

MemberOvomorphMar-25-2015 7:00 PM

The idea of a wormhole or blackhole creating a duplicate of ship and crew reminds me of an episode of Red Dwarf! Good one, though. 

HyperNova

MemberOvomorphMar-26-2015 5:19 AM

Yes SP, and I seem to remeber an episode of Star Trek: Voyager that was called: Parallax in which the ship and crew are exactly dupilcated by some Phase Space that they passed through and both exact copies are superimposed upon one-another yet co-exist within their own unique reality. 'Ghostings' from the other ship spill over going back and forth between both ships as each are veiying for supremacy or competing for the same tempral patch of space-time and only one can exist at any one point within any particular point of the universe.

ZetaReticuli

MemberOvomorphMar-27-2015 8:45 AM

Hypernova, that is an absolutely WONDERFUL idea!! I'm heavily into all this space-time

and dilation stuff and I'm a big fan of 'Interstellar' - you have good taste!! Have you read or watched any of Anthony Peake's books or talks on YouTube? He's a master guru of all this time paradox and illusion thing. God, I'd love to see the stuff touched on in 'Interstellar' in more films and to have it meshed with the Alien Universe will be, well, a match made in Heaven!!

CarynParnall

MemberOvomorphMar-27-2015 11:41 AM

"Two identical copies existing in the same volume of space-time creates a paradox, a bubble in the space-time matter stream, a paradox that nature (fate, if you will) will inevitably effect to self-correct to stem the flow in the particle stream."

A self-correcting universe (and/or multiverse) is a good way to go.  It can make it a little different than other movies.  I really like that idea.

Something needs to explain how Ripley's story jumps back to a point in space-time after ALIENS (with the other stories not being completely ignored). The universe itself is then almost a living system: it would correct itself so that she doesn't interact with an exact copy of herself.  It makes it so the separate timelines don't interact but may all still exist.  

HyperNova

MemberOvomorphMar-28-2015 5:42 AM

The Ripley Paradox... Or the Double Ripley Paradox...

Zeta Reticuli... Hello to you! Yes, it is GREAT that many of us find keen interest in similar themes and it is a good sign that you have warmed to my hypothesis! I would also love to see Interstellar inspired themes integrated as integral, key elements within the mainframe and/or confines of an Alien-based universe. It would be absolutely fantastic! 

The theme of relativity and relativistic effects was touched on all-but-briefly at the very beginning of Aliens when it was discovered that Ripley had drifted right through the bulk of the Core Systems for 57 years. I sometimes wonder that perhaps she may also have benifitted from the fact of getting a gravitational assist here-and-there from nearby stars and perhaps the Super-Massive Black Hole at the centre of the galaxy depending obvoiusly where exactly her heading last took her. Added to the fact that she was in cryo-hypersleep her sinus rhythms if indeed I have that terminology correct were slowed down ultra-considerably.

I have not, as yet, listened too or read-up upon the works of Anthony Peake but you have my word on the strength and vested interest(s) you and a few others have shown here with regards to this thread I will do-so as I am equally intrigued and excited by this type of (for want of a better word) quantum thinking!

Thanks for the Good Taste compliment! :-) ____________________________________________________________________________________________

Caryn Delacroix... 

My thought on the two-Ripleys, Sulaco and Co. that are exactly and temporally copied, down to the last subatomic particle are the result of the hypothetical encounter with a massive stellar object. In some way-shape-or-form it is the cause to Ripley's effect or the effect that influences Ripley's cause!..Depending upon which, angle/point-of-view you are coming or observing from. You could make the case that in a way it is a matter of Quantum Cloning even though I said no cloning at least in the biological sense only was the reason for the double Ripley and Co. cunundrum. But I rather like and am intrigued by the idea of Temporal Dividing, or Quantum Sub-Dividing... Like a cell. (more on this in a minute)

The Ripley prior to any and all events of Alien 3 onwards made a close approach to the black hole/temporal anomaly, during the fall inwards some gravitational eddy in extreme gravitational flux smashes up against the ship and somehow it is the result of this that causes the phase-shift variance throwing our pre-existing Ripley crew out and onto a date with destiny upon Fiorina "Fury".

Our new Ripley and Co. fall ever-inwards, close to the quantum threshold while the other gets thrown out and moves ever-further away they both become sectioned off from the space-time continuim. Its not until original Ripley gets far enough away so their signatures weaken out across the vast distances of space-time that even stranger goings-on begin to happen to new Ripley still in orbit around the black hole/worm hole/temporal anomaly.

Our original Ripley and crew's time phasing diminishes altogether while our new Crew's start to intensify, rapidly. So for some reason either nature does not let New Ripley and Co. break free from the grip of the black hole until Original Ripley dies or they are orbiting in there for a considerably long exposure, during which time the matter-time stream having sealed itself as a result. The ripples of continuity reaching it over cosmic distances yet unable to affect anything within the gravitational influence of the black hole boundary. 

In a way, the self-correcting time wave passes directly up, over and around the black hole New Ripley and Co. are in orbit around/trapped in. Once that happens and Original Ripley and Co's existence are literally dead to the universe the self-correcting bubble in effect closes around New Ripley and Co. sealing them within it. They are now free to enter the new time-matter stream (when they can break free that is and if ever) as at that very moment the old one reached the point of New Ripley's black hole the convoluted time-loop sealing itself permanently.

One other thing, it is also an intriguing thought that the theme behind the double Ripley and Co. paradox being in two tempral states of identical existence at the same moment in the same point of space-time adds to the notion of the womb-cosmos. Original Ripley and Co. are the single ova if you will in the centre of the cosmic milky-womb of the mother galaxy. And like a 'living system' as Caryn Delacroix put it the Sulaco 'ova' has effectively subdivided due to the incubating gravitational forces of the torquing effects from the black hole or supper-massive black hole. Then, for example, similar to what we saw at the begining of Tim Burtons Planet of the Apes one of those pods in that cosmic storm of electromagnetic energy kept jumping the pilot forward and back, both seeing then not seeing the other pod at the same time. The cosmic mother gravetic energies trying to reproduce itself and as far as Original Ripley and Co. are concerned they are in a temporal fluidic state of cyclical, self-generating systems of reproduction. 

Being that the Alien franchise is all about the mother-love energies reaching out over vast interstellar distances and cycles of life both human bound and the nightmarish complete and exact opposite for the Alien. Yet as was described in Avatar the Great Mother doesn't judge, she merely finds balance for the preservation of life coupled with the equal taking away of it. The Pharaoh cosmic god Nute gave birth to the void and all that was made inside it. She is the Great  Cosmic Mother to all the other Galactic Mothers that would follow.

Native American ancient tradition spoke of the cosmic view of the world as Mother Earth being surrounded and protected by Father Sky. This is embodied by both Ripley and Hicks, Ripley: the Mother Earth energies and Hicks, the warror/protective Father Sky embodiment to the Newt/Ripley surrogat family unit. Bishop could represent the embodiment of knowledge, the wise and ancient teacher being the keeper of and bestowing the wisdom of the great knowledge. He personifies The Great Knowledge Keeper.

I love the idea of mixing creation and mother generating themes across a larger void.

One other thing, or two. The first is even though Original set of Ripley and crew would end-up on Fiorina and die leaving their temporal dopplegangers in their place to re-occupy their vacated time-spaces their still is the issue of two Sulaco's still in existence within the same point of reference within the space-time manifold. So I could only conclude that if the Original Sulaco which disappears off-screen in Alien 3 is still in existence then what of the Temporal Identical Twin Sulaco? Well, I would say that probably, when the new Sulaco moves (if it can) away from the gravitational influence of the black hole due to being in such close proximity of the event horizon and winds-up re-entering the phase varience of our universe it was sectioned off from while trapped inside, our New Sulaco's unique temporal signiture is out of phase-allignment with the rest if the cosmic frequency. So the universe fights to self-correct the annomaly by stripping our New Sulaco to pieces and spagettifying it. As this starts to happen, New Ripley and Co. are rescued, brought to safety while New Sulaco phases out of existence and implodes, or just plain atomises.

Original Sulaco that disappears of-screen in Alien 3 could somehow get completely and utterly destroyed, falling into a star and burning up altogether leaving no trace, thus allowing New Temporal Identical Twin Sulaco to re-enter normal space without hindrance of any kind... Once again, the paradox of two identical quantum signitures co-existing for the same point of space-time being resolved and the universe self-correcting itself and its nature.

Still, there is the one other matter of the escape pod that would be an identical duplicate of the other. And was badly damaged Bishop in Alien 3 completely and utterly burned up inside the furnaces? Completely removing his precence within the universe completely out of existence, another universal self-correcting mechanism.

It could be that two Sulaco's could exist in the same universe so long as they kept vast distances apart otherwise it might be like bringing matter and anti-matter versions of themselves together in close proximity and annihaliting each other on contact.

I also think that New Ripley and Co. who ventured in to-close to the event horizon and quite possibly the center of the black hole or worm hole itself they end up spending an aeon in the higher dimesion adrift within the "Bulk" as they trancend for only a brief amount of screen time in Interstellar but New Ripley and Co. could have been there or somewhere like there for an age timeless, adrift not within but without the void. The void both within and without the void. Then they fall back in via another quantum tunneillng effect into another black hole/worm hole and thus a new point of time-space reference within the continuim particle matter-stream. 

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-29-2015 8:44 AM

Some interesting ideas, but i am not a big fan of doing such a thing as its once you open that door where do you stop?  But it certainly does not offer such problems as much as Time Travel would have.

Logically if they are indeed doing a Alien 5 that has to have Ripley and more so if it will have Hicks to and cast the Original Actors then the Clone route would  to a degree pose a few problems also.

END OF THE DAY!

Ripley should be dead, gone... kaput unless its set after Alien Resurection and so for sure Hicks should be gone.... but alas it seems they are introducing them back and for definate Ripley.

So maybe a Paradox is a way they could attempt this but i guess the question would be how? And when! because i guess we have to assume that at the point that a event happens that causes a Paradox both alternate realities must branch of from the same point, so if a event occurs that triggers the Paradox and say a Worm Hole we must maybe see the Sulaco enter such a event and at the end of it we have one come out and enter the Aliens ===> Alien 3 timeline and the other Aliens ===> Alien 5 timeline.

This maybe could be the only alternative to cloning method, apart from that Alien 3 and Alien R was just dreams or at very least Alien 3 was.

How could a event like this occur?

Maybe the blast after Aliens on LV 426 somehow effects and sends the Sulaco into alterative realities. 

I think thus this could work, it would not be the way i would have done the franchise but i guess it allows for a alternative timeline, like the Prometheus Fire and Stone and AVP and Aliens Fire and Stone Comic Books are.

But at least with Alien 5 alternative we have could be shown a reason for how the Paradox occurs.

The problem will still be to explain the Age difference but Sigourney does not look to old, its only wrinkles that give her age a way and neck, but these are something that CGI overlay can adress if the movie has a large budget to pull off a good job.

Likewise for Michael Biehn the fact that he has burns to his face could mean that makeup can cover up any signs of age, and be explained as skin damage from his injury...

How they will explain away Newt would be a problem mind.... 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

MonsterZero

MemberXenomorphMar-29-2015 4:11 PM

   The Engineers/Prometheans may have been monitoring LV426.....Saw a major explosion on one of their 'dead' planets and came to investigate? I would think the Engineers have more than enough knowledge to replicate(to the atom/neuron)any living matter.

Finding the Sulaco leaving the system they intercept and board it...take samples of the crew and leave......  Or replicate the ship entirely? replicate 4 or 5 ships and crew, to use as target practice or give some junior Engineer research crews something to experiment on. maybe drop a Sulaco crew on a hostile planet(LV666) and observe them. Poor Ripley(s)!

The Engineers could have wormholes near every planet they attempt to seed? and this is what the Sulaco fell into and out of? 

HyperNova

MemberOvomorphMar-29-2015 6:40 PM

Hello BigDave... 

So the picture I'm painting is as Ripley and Co. immediately after they go into cryo-sleep at the end of Aliens leave the local orbit of LV-426 they go off on a course that will take them near-to the centre of the galaxy for reasons we can also speculate on...

If I had to draw comparisons it would be the intro scene of Tim Burtons Planet of the Apes with the spacial-electromagnetic storm crossed with moments from Interstellar when they begin orbiting into both the spherical wormhole and the super-massive black hole: Gargantua.

Somewhere there a phased-electromagnetic discharge encounters the Sulaco whirling around the black hole or the Sulaco encounters IT!

Its at this exact moment that the Quantum Duplicating event and effect upon the Sulaco occurs. You could in some way call it Quantum Cloning but the phrasing is merely a vague, marginal comparison form of word use. Temporal Duplicating, Quantum Copying - you get the picture...

Once the phenomena occurs that interacts with the Sulaco the duplicating effect happens perhaps in a blinding flash of light or the magnetic fields rippling out and the gravetic effects of the super-massive black hole's huge presence.

It is here that one 'version' of the Sulaco and crew are both inter-phased and superimposed upon the other. But, like two positively charged magnets they repel one-another, one version being flung out of the accretion disc, the other being trapped there near to the event-horizon.

The black hole/worm hole is the agent that gets the phenomenon started so the Ripley and Co. we see at the very beginning of Alien 3 has already had its encounter with the black hole/worm hole/temporal anomaly phenomenon. What you don't realise is at the exact same time that you see that there is an exact temporal duplicate in every exact detail of Ripley, Sulaco and Co. stuck in orbit around or very near to the event-horizon of the super-massive black hole at the centre of the galaxy. In this way both potential viewings of Alien 3 and Aliens (2.1) can co-exist and run concurrently alongside one-another as parallel stories without disturbing the self-contained continuity of the other.

HyperNova

MemberOvomorphMar-29-2015 8:10 PM

Hi Monster Zero...

Yes, a wormhole in relation to every system they (the Engineers) have ever visited would make sense as to how they got around their local corner of the galaxy. Much like the Stargate in 2001: A Space Odyssey in permanent position above the Jupiter sysem.

In my hypothesis I'm merely suggesting that something got the phenomenon going that initiated the temporal duplicating effect that the Sulaco would get caught-up in, the quantum state, temporally and gravitationally. 

The effect could be rare, unique even but something that wouldn't theoretically rip apart the Sulaco in an instant so it would have to be within the breaking points of limited, justifiable credibility.

MonsterZero

MemberXenomorphMar-30-2015 6:07 AM

Hi HyperNova,

I suggest the AI of the Sulaco is programmed to find and investigate  Anomalies/Wormholes/etc.......I think it would re-route the Sulaco and wouldn't bother waking the crew. The crew wouldn't know what hit them! The Sulaco would send a full report of the anomaly to Weyland HQ....if it survived the encounter!

HyperNova

MemberOvomorphMar-30-2015 7:27 AM

Monster Zero...

That is true and also raises one gnawing plot-point that I would have to consider... Why wouldn't the Sulaco's internal AI navigational control system(s) simply know that the Super-Massive Black Hole is there and redirect the Sulaco so that it should not venture anywhere near the centre of the galaxy?

Surely the Colonial Marines and Weyland-Utani Corp. would have already have pre-programmed into the ships auto-navigational control not to venture into certain 'Red Zone' areas across the known explored regions of the galaxy.

Unless the centre of the galaxy by this time has not yet been explored by Human kind.

I would think it has at least been traversed near-to. There could be extenuating circumstances that causes the Sulaco to encounter a black hole or the central galactic black hole and some reason why the onboard AI systems did not take measures to redirect the ship in the first place.

It just requires taking the time to invent the double-paradox cunundrum as a result of black hole/worm hole/temporal annomoly and simply work backwards to what got it there or near there in the first place. Malfunction... external collision maybe by an incoming asteroid/space projectile...

Still, wouldn't the under mounted auto-guns of the Sulaco's external defence weaponry systems come online and take pot-shots at them like was seen at the beginning of the original Starship Troopers space gun defence platforms...?

Unless there was a higher plan to deliberately re-direct the ship as a form of sinister experimentation in quantum mechanics like was supposed to have been done to the USS Eldrige in The Philadelphia Experiment...

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-30-2015 12:58 PM

Yeah i understand what the two of you are getting at.

I am not sure on the ability of the Engineers to create Worm Holes but we cant rule that out as a means of getting around the Galaxy the only problem i have with that would be again why the Engineers from Paradise never came back if travel to Earth was far far simple compared to how the Prometheus traveled...   What i am saying is the Earth to LV 223 2 year journey for us, i would not like to see it made as a easy Worm Hole few days or even hours trip for the Engineers.

Also im not so sure about the Sulaco drifting into the centre of the Galaxy and into a Black Hole and causing the Quantum Duplicating event  etc.

I would rather prefer something more close to the location of LV 426 to Earth to see a event that is a freak one that causing this.... thats why i sugested maybe the Shockwave Blast off LV 426 at the end of Aliens.

Thats not to say your ideas are not sound, we all have our own ones and own oppinions...

I am however now thinking that a Alien 3 = Dream could be a logical way to go, and that the real Ripley is either infected with Alien Embryo or the company come across Alien DNA and infect Ripley.  I would then have at the end of Alien 5, or a 6 if they go that route, that Ripleys dies and thus its her DNA they have that leads to Alien Resurection.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

HyperNova

MemberOvomorphMar-30-2015 3:25 PM

Yes BigDave...

If this idea I proposed was a viable, hypothetical option it is true that the 'phenomenon' in what ever shape-or-form that may take say the black hole option would have to take place further away from the centre of the galaxy perhaps and nearby the Zeta Reticuli system. So maybe that part of the plot could be moved over to take place within a closer system.

In all fairness though Ripley herself left LV-426 after Alien and drifted from one side of the galaxy, passing near-to the galactic Core Systems and was discovered floating through space on the far side. We don't know what time epochs they may be planning to dice with in this new film so it is speculative if were talking a mere few years, a few decades or centuries.

Don't forget Ripley has now left from this area twice now. Granted, the second time around the crew of the Sulaco may have left on a different trajectory possibly compared to her hasty departure the first time around. Unless she made a deliberate course correction in between the edit/cut from where she hit the ignite button an blew the Alien out into space via the escape pods thrusters, she could have encoded into the navigation computer a new heading which could have in fact in its most direct, linear path could have taken her very close by, almost skirting by the super-massive black hole at the galactic centre. Somehow I think she just got a gravitational assist by it and just had the shuttle craft do a wide-angle slingshot manuever to safely guide her around it because the nearest human colony and the Human Frontier was directly on the other side.

She also could have had the intention of doing all that and unbeknownst to her got an over-excess of gravitational assist and started an ever-so-slight spiral inwards and by sheer luck was flung-off at an unexpected, unforseen trajectory which contributed to her 57 year drifting through the galactic Local Core.

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-31-2015 5:38 AM

I understand what you are getting at and dont meant  to be disrespectful, and i do think a event like this could work but i am not sure how the Narcissus could have floated to the centre of the Galaxy within the Time Frame of the movie....  Prometheus took 2 years to get to LV 223 and at the same speed it would take about 1500 years to drift to the centre of the Milky Way, and while the Sulaco can travel faster it would also not get there in anytime soon.

There is a Answer to what you pose however... that is if it took thousands of years, but then when it reached the centre a event happened that sent it back to Zeta 2 system and back in time and also creating a Paradox

I guess one other option could be that some how David and Shaw return via some Worm Hole and its path takes it near or into the Sulaco and its David and Shaws Juggernaught that causes such a event.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

HyperNova

MemberOvomorphMar-31-2015 8:28 AM

Hey BigDave...

I always thought that the term: Core Systems meant reference to the galactic core systems. However I sourced-out map images about colonized worlds within the Alien universe and I'm sure you already know so I don't mean to tell you what you may already know but it means: Core Systems from Sol's perspective outwards and so it now, as you rightly say, has an impact upon what my proposal would be hinged upon.

From this perspective and position/point in space the Super-Massive Black Hole at the centre of the galaxy would be just too far away for using ideas for the centre of the galaxy unless as you also said for some reason Original Ripley and Co. just jumped there for some reason then jumped back or just encounter something closer to the Core System area or just a bit further out.

Also, you are right that Ripley did not journey to the centre of the galaxy and back, I misinterpreted a design/scetch that I saw a while back. She would just have been drifting closer to the Core Systems then what I thought it was. She probably still got the odd gravitational assist slong the way before she was found.

Not sure if there are any black holes close to where the Core Systems are or not.

It's possible that the hypothosis is sound with the Quantum Duplication phenomenon its just the location where the Sulaco encounters it would be in a closer vacinity to the events of Alien universe perhaps the Prometheus universe.

 

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-31-2015 9:28 AM

Well there is the potential for finding a closer Black Hole, the nearest one to Earth is V4641_Sagittarii and before it was found the only one thought to exist is in the centre of the Galaxy.   As time goes by i am sure we could find more..

But V4641 Sagittarii is 1600 LY away which Prometheus could reach in 90 years..

But we can not be sure as far as the Alien Universe of a few things..

1) How far they have explored by the time of Aliens...

2) How fast their ships can travel at the time of Aliens...

The Weylany Files site seems to sugest the futherst a Manned mission has ever got to is Fictional World POL 6362 the Weyland sites sugests you have travelled 3249 LY to get there but as the exploration site shows many many worlds on your travel with the App, that could be the total distance your ships has traveled, so while London to Paris is 282 Miles and then Distance from Paris to New York is 3646 Miles if you traveled from London to Paris then Paris to New York you would have traveled 3928 Miles....

But if you mark up the distances to every known Major City and if you traveled from Major City (even if only 2 Million plus populated ones) to City you would total up a much much higher millage.

Because if the Weyland site means that the total distance to POL 6362 from Earth if you traveled only to that system is 3249 LY well Prometheus would have taken to get there 224 Years, and this World was discovered in 2071.... so how can they had traveled that far 20 years before Prometheus Mission unless one of 2 things..

1) There are other ships that can travel much much faster than Prometheus or Prometheus was not traveling to LV 223 at its maximum speeds or a direct route.

2) That the distance on the Weyland Website to the futherst Man Mission in Space is a Total Distance traveled in LY by Mankind...

But its most likely they never gave it much thought as far as little details like that and if we would pick them appart.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-31-2015 9:41 AM

Mind you looking at some closer places on that site it has Gliese 667 CB at 22LY when Gliese 667 system is indeed 22 LY

HD 85512B is another system Weyland had Teraformed in 2055 with a distance of 36.3 LY... and in reality HD 85512 System is 36 LY away

The same with HD 10697 system which matches its true distance.

Kepler 22b it says is 536 LY Traveled in distance from Earth when in reality its roughly 600LY... so they are kind of there..

The Weyland site seems to show the first system outside of our own that they have Mined and Teraformed is Gliese 876 which it has at 15LY distance traveled and that is how far it is away in reality.

So maybe they are as far as the Weyland Site goes, they are saying that by 2071 Mankind has reached as far as 3249 Light Years.

So if thats correct then finding a Black Hole would not be to hard, however we have to then ask how slow is Prometheus lol

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-31-2015 9:55 AM

Mind you i will add that the Sulaco traveled at a Speed of about 570X Speed of Light to get to LV 426 within 3 weeks... so it would have got to where Promethus was(LV 223) in 22 Days and LV 426 in 21 days.

So the Sulaco would reach the futherest point Mankind has been by 2071 in the Weyland Timeline POL 6362 at 3249 LY in actually less than a year, infact some 290-300 days depend on exactly how fast the Sulaco travels.

So indeed within the realms of the Weyland Sites Exporing Worlds and how fast the Sulaco could travel in Aliens the potential to bump into a Black Hole is very Plausible and indeed the Sulaco could reach the centre of the Milky way in about 6.7 years LOL

So i take it we consider the Sulaco Speeds and now how much slower Prometheus seems.. (33X Slower)

So yes if even as of Aliens  V4641 Sagittarii is still the closest Black Hole, then the Sulaco could travel to it from Earth in 145 days and so this makes your theory Possible. with ease ;)

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

HyperNova

MemberOvomorphMar-31-2015 3:27 PM

BigDave... This is very interesting stuff you offer! And this is EXCELLENT news for me!!

These are fascinating and indeed intriguing thought points of information! The idea of V4641 Sagittarii possibly being in existence as an object in the first place but on top of that its a possible candidate for a black hole!! 

Just out of curiosity, from the point-of-view of LV-426 how long travel distance is it from there to V4641 Sagittarii? In other words my proposal has the Sulaco leaving orbit of LV-426 and encountering a freak stellar/interstellar phenomenon along the way. Maybe their trajectory taking them from the Zeta-Reticuli system and into a close fly- by of V4641 Sagittarii system/location.

It could be that they return home intact then for some reason goes out again but what I liked about Alien 3 for about two minutes it is set-up that the Sulaco encounters some sort of a problem but its that problem that kills-off everyone in an instant. I would like to at least have had a similar calamity looming upon the ship but in my scenario "Quantum Cloning" occurs and our characters/new characters are given more rollercoaster action/drama ride. Which is why I'd like to see the other plotlines explained away and get back to characters we really know and love, can invest a lot of our time in once more.

Plus, one reason why I wanted to include the Temporal Paradox concept is because as a plot mechanism it introduces the 'ticking clock' device as a means to give an impeding doom or crisis upon the horizon. I just wanted to use it as a way for the universe to 'Give' it first has to 'Take Away'. In this case, Quantum Clone the Sulaco, then the hand of providence takes away the Fiorina 'Fury' Ripley and the rest from the space-time continuim then welcoming the Quantum Copies back into the very same space-time continuim manifold.

Themes of all things being Cyclical. The Eternal Circle, The Cycle of Life etc. there are many themes to this idea down the long sweep of time.

With my idea suggestion I actually don't want a hypothetical film to dwell on the concept for too-long, just enough to justify the clear transition point of one time-space and continuim event into another but with the 'fork in the road' concept where we see both transitions splitting-off at the same time. One plotline we would know how it plays out with regard to the Alien 3/Resurrection story arc and would watch that version of the Sulaco heading off to its date with cosmic destiny. That ship would trail off-screen and we would know where it would eventually end up. In the meantime and at that same, exact time I would want to watch what would happen to the ship still in orbit around the Temporal Phenomenon in what ever shape-or-form that would take.

I just want a mechanism that LITERALLY brings us full circle back with Ripley and Co. and a justifiable age differentiation with them all. Because I like the idea of Ripley and Co. again, I don't want to see them all dead just with some clever thinking and writing fans can have the best of both worlds. Original canon is kept intact and expanded upon while at the same time thematically.

Also, with regards to the Prometheus ship supposedly going slower at or near-to the speed of light as compared to what the Sulaco could possibly do, is it not possible that in addition to the Prometheus' maximum speed could the Prometheus star mission have been pre-planned by the mission specialists to send the ship off encountering several gravitational assists from a curverture arc of stars along the way? It just uses Stars as Voyagers 1 and 2 used the planets within the Solar System to sligshot itself out of it altogether.

In addition, wouldn't the Prometheus need to be slowing down a few light years prior to the Zeta Reticuli system? In fact, wouldn't they need to either figure 8 around some stars close-in then as they encounter the Zeta 1 or 2 star which-ever one LV-426 and LV-223 and its parent planet are in orbit around wouldn't the Prometheus then need to run-up against the orbital spin of these stars so its own inertia rubs against the grain to that of the stars in an anti-orbit around them. Then on close approach to the parent planet wouldn't they need to go into orbit in an anti-orbit to the gas giants rotation as well, slowing it further until it could go into geo-sychronus orbit above an decend into LV-223?

BigDave

MemberDeaconMar-31-2015 3:41 PM

Yes interesting ideas....  and so yes if we consider how fast the Sulaco gets to LV 426 and that there is a potential for more than the Black Hole at the centre of the Galaxy these do mean the idea you had would seem plausible as far as being a bit scientific in relation to distances and speeds of travel by 2179 etc.

Not sure gravitational assists would be needed for ships that have some kind of Hyperdrive Warp Speed that allows for Faster than Light Speed Travel..

Mind you the speed differences between Prometheus and Sulaco can be interpreted as break through in even faster speeds many years after Prometheus... if we can ignore the Weyland Site as not being factual to Canon....

Its not the first minor inconsistancy in the franchise to Prometheus, or with Prometheus movie and the Viral Sites and information related on them.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

HyperNova

MemberOvomorphApr-02-2015 2:29 AM

Hello BigDave again...

I found some more information regarding black holes in closer proximity to the Zeta Reticuli and Earth systems.

According to this there may be one within the centre of Orion's Belt in the Trapezium Cluster. Here are two quotes, one about the possible discovery, the other below that what they thought it was until now.

[Trapezium (info)

A black hole in the Orion Nebula?

An international team of astrophysicists says the famous Orion Nebula has a black hole at its heart, whose mass is some 200 times the mass of our sun. One of the most recognized constellations is Orion, with its three prominent Belt stars, or three stars in a short straight row on the sky’s dome. This constellation can be seen at night at this time of year, ascending in the east, visible from all parts of the globe. Last week (November 1, 2012), an international team of astrophysicists announced the result of their work in computer modeling, which suggests that a famous nebula – or cloud – in Orion known as the Orion Nebula has a black hole at its heart, whose mass is some 200 times the mass of our sun. If it exists, the black hole would reside somewhere between the four bright stars which mark the center of the Orion Nebula. These stars are known as the Trapezium.

The Trapezium stars are the four brightest stars in an open star cluster – known as the Orion Nebula Cluster – consisting of young stars, newly born (only one or two million years ago) from the Orion’s Nebula’s gas and dust. The Orion Nebula Cluster has long been known as peculiar. Its stars move at a rapid speed, as if the whole cluster were flying apart. If the cluster contained more high-mass stars, the speed of these stars would be easier to understand. But it doesn’t, and so astronomers have wondered why these stars move so rapidly. An international team of astrophysicists – led by Dr. Ladislav Subr of Charles University in Prague – set up a computer model of the Orion Nebula Cluster. The model required a new method of dealing with the gas in this region of space and the way it is driven out from the young star cluster by the intensely radiating high-mass stars of the Trapezium. The model showed that, as the gas was being driven outwards, the cluster began to expand. That explained why most stars in the Orion Nebula Cluster move so rapidly. Many of the heavy stars were sling-shot out of the cluster, while some were driven into the center of the cluster and collided with the most massive star there.

At some point, this massive star became unstable and imploded into a black hole, with a mass about 200 times larger than the sun. These scientists were excited about this result. They said the finding had: … dramatic implications for our understanding of how massive stars form and how such rich star clusters hatch from their gaseous cocoons. Having such a massive black hole at our doorstep would be a dramatic chance for intense studies of these enigmatic objects. Amateur astronomers will be excited, too! Now, as you gaze at the Orion Nebula, you can imagine a black hole at its heart. Bottom line: The Orion Nebula might have a black hole, according to an international team of astrophysicists. They made their announcement November 1, 2012 in the Astrophysical Journal. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Quadruple Star Theta Orionis - aka "The Trapezium"

A part of the Great Orion Nebula Theta Orionis is the noted quadruple, or multiple star, in the heart of the the Great Orion Nebula (M-42). This very young group provides the "power source" which lights up the nebula. It is known as "The Trapezium". Quote from Burnham's Celestial Handbook: "This is probably the best known multiple star in the sky, and one of the most interesting for the small telescope. The four brighter components form a little quadrangle called the "Trapezium" and the object is a favorite of all observers." "The ....... primary of the group (has) a visual magnitude of about 5.4; the spectral type is near 06. ......The spectra of (the second & third brightest stars) are BO and A7 respectively. The faintest star..... is an eclipsing binary with a period of 6.471 days, and is also known under its variable star designation which is "BM Orionis".

(The primary star) was in 1975 identified as an eclipsing binary with a period of 65.432 days and a visual range of 6.7 to 7.7." "The Trapezium is the bright core of a compact cluster of faint stars which may form an expanding association. Within 5' of the Trapezium are more than 300 stars brighter than 17th magnitude. A study of this group has been made by K.A.Strand; he finds some evidence for an expansion rate which would indicate an age of no more than 300,000 years, and make this one of the very youngest star clusters known."]

That all makes for interesting reading for me!

Also, do you have any information that shows any skymaps with Zeta Reticuli and the Orion System in proximity with each other? And do you know what distance it is from Zeta Reticuli to the Orion system? I've tried to find declination pictures and source other images but as yet have been unable to find anything as yet.

One other point, you may already know but in the Shaw/Holloway presentation in the begining of Prometheus Holloway shows the repeat constellation etchings from across the ages on Earth, it then morphs into the Zeta Reticuli hologram constellation and as they zoom back towards the vacinity of the Earth to hammer-home the point of the vast ditances between they're both talking about the zoom-out shows the constellation of Orion as they pass-by!

So for my proposal they could fall into the gravity well of the Trapezium Cluster within Orions Belt!

 

BigDave

MemberDeaconApr-02-2015 9:29 AM

There is again a error in that map hologram, it shows that LV 223 is located past Orions Belt....  thus it can not be witin Zeta 2 Reticuli...

The Centre of Orions Belt has to be some 1300 LY futher than Zeta 2 Reticuli.

Maybe there is someone with more Astronomical knowledge than i have that can be more precise?

Zeta 2 would be located more south of Orion and more to the left... it would be thus -1 Right Ascension as viewed from earth to Orion and a Declination difference of 65 which kind of goes against what Holloways Hollogram map shows us.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

HyperNova

MemberOvomorphApr-02-2015 12:09 PM

I see, so BigDave do you think it is possible that the constellation of Orion in relation to the zoom-out from the Zeta Reticuli system is it a type of forced perspective giving the illusion of Zeta being further away an Orion being in front when in actual fact Orion is the one that is behind, bigger and much further away and Zeta is closer-in...? Or perhaps the two, although Orion looks bigger, are just in fact relatively side-by-side in space along a similar track...?

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