Alien: Covenant

Ampule Vases Prometheus' Monoliths?

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Necronom 4

NeomorphMember1566 XPFeb-28-2015 5:50 AM

So, i was watching youtube vids the other day in an attempt to try and understand what's going on in 2001 a space odyssey, in particular, the hotel room at the end and the monoliths. In one particular vid, there is a short interview with Arthur C Clarke, the author of the novelization, in which he explains that the monoliths (a tool used by advanced aliens to teach and there by helping to evolve primative life) are an actual lifeform going through different stages of evolution from organic to mechanical then eventually into pure energy. (In the film, we only see the mechanical stage of it's evolution.)

Now, we know from interviews with Ridley Scott that he wanted to do his own 2001 as he loved the film before he started work on Alien. He also refered to 2001 alot in interviews just before the release of Prometheus.

Is it possible that he also read the novelization of 2001 by A C Clarke? And are the ampules/vases Prometheus' version of the monoliths? You know where i'm going with this don't you?

If so, this would explain the difference between the eggs on the derelict in Alien and the vases in Prometheus. 

The vases evolving into eggs explination as also been suggested by members of this forum before, however, at the time i didn't like that explination, but now i think it's a real possibility given Ridley's love of 2001 and that he also said in a particular interview that the Vases evolved.

So, if the evolution explination is correct, do the eggs evolve into the vases or do the vases evolve into the eggs?

This isn't necessarily what i believe, it's just another idea or way of looking at it.

The poster was good though!

 

17 Responses to Ampule Vases Prometheus' Monoliths?

Fleshvessel

OvomorphMember1 XPFeb-28-2015 10:46 AM

Vases first, I think. They seem to have been created by someone, with a lid, etc. markings on the vase also indicate manufacturing. 

 

I, like you, didn't originally like that theory, but when you look at the room full of urns, and the stuff around them, then look at the derelict egg room, they are virtually identical. 

urns would certainly be safer for transport. 

 

Drop off urns, pick up eggs?

 

THETRICKISNOTMINDINGITHURTS

Something Real

TrilobiteMember5639 XPFeb-28-2015 1:17 PM

NECRONOM 4 - What a very interesting hypothesis! I can certainly see the inspiration now that you have brought it forward! Thank you so much for sharing this compelling theory with us! :)

meshuggah

OvomorphMember0 XPFeb-28-2015 9:24 PM

Yeah I argued the case for the urns slowly changing (or morphing) into "eggs, or something" a while ago, and the metallic properties of the vase being responsible for the bio-MECHANICAL features of the xenomorph's morphology. It lines up nicely with Scott saying the Jockey's cargo in the derelict "got out of control" or "evolved" and seeing how sensitive the urns are to temperature it's not a stretch to surmise that what happened in the urn chamber room is exactly what happened in the derelict's chamber. The engineers then went to greater measures to ensure the cargo's stability by stacking the urns into pillars, with closer proximity and refrigeration.  

brego

OvomorphMember81 XPMar-01-2015 12:14 AM

I truly hope the Vases don't morph into eggs.... But I think the similarity to the Monolith fit's in better to the earlier Prometheus Script before it was altererd. In this script the vases contain scarab like insects at least on of these bites an early Human, giving them self awareness. This is what I believe Arthur C Clark did with the Monolith. Maybe this is why Ridley changed the script to the actual creation of life itself. Maybe he thought the original would ultimately be compare to or seemed to be influenced by 2001.

Svanya

PraetorianAdmin4319 XPMar-01-2015 1:58 AM

It's no secret Ridley Scott has always admired 2001: A Space Odyssey, he probably took some visual cues from it but apart from that the two movies are unrelated. The vases turning into eggs idea wasn't fan speculation, it was an idea taken directly from Dan O'Bannon's Star Beast/Alien script. In it he had leathery urns that later on would be turned into eggs. The Prometheus script just went back to that idea and turned them into the metal urns holding the black virus.

Frankly, the black goo from Prometheus more closely resembles the Black Oil Virus from The X-Files, given David Lindelof's love of pop culture i'd say it's a fair bet he was thinking of that over anything Clarke or O'Bannon wrote.

The X-Files Mythology, Volume 2 – Black Oil

TL;DR: 

"The X-Files plot arc was about a group of people (The Syndicate) who were trying to negotiate with an alien species (The Colonists) that was intent on taking over the world, wiping out humankind in the process. 

First contact with the aliens occurred in 1947, when one of their spacecraft crash landed in the desert in New Mexico. In the face of the inevitability that the superior alien intelligence and technology would ultimately beat them, a small group of powerful men negotiated an agreement that humanity would be allowed to continue in the form of an alien-human hybrid. The Syndicate spent most of its time helping The Colonists develop the hybrids by keeping them supplied with human foetuses. However, they were also covertly working on a vaccine that would save humanity from this awful fate. Unfortunately, The Colonists had lied to The Syndicate about what their plans were.

The Black Oil that was supposed to create a human-alien slave race, was in fact a virus that created aliens inside the human host and their true intention was to wipe out humanity and take the planet for themselves. The Syndicate's discovery of this betrayal led The Colonists to develop a race of Super Soldiers to ensure that the colonisation of Earth would not be prevented. The series ends with the revelation that the alien invasion is due to start in December 2012, the end of the Mayan calendar."

Source: Reddit

Necronom 4

NeomorphMember1566 XPMar-01-2015 3:18 AM

And in turn, that was probably inspired by Invasion of the body snatchers and the alien inside the human host obviously inspired by ALIEN. It's like Ridley said "all scifi film makers borrow idea's from each other."

The poster was good though!

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMar-02-2015 9:32 AM

A lot of interesting ideas and i think it depends on how you interpret them...

 

I will start off with Star Beast as Svanya mentioned, Star Beast if i remember described leathery urns, and it does not show them changing into Eggs... as far as i remember...

 

They are described differently mind, i am sure at one point they are described as being Jars, that are glossy and have markings on them, this applies to the empty one they find early on.

 

Then when they descend into the Temple, they come across rows of them which they say are the same as the one they found earlier but these are sealed.

 

Brousard, i think it was goes up to one and described them as Leathery, and he puts his hands on the lid and it is soft to the touch and then the Jar, has raised bits from where he placed is fingers as if some kind of change is happening.

 

Then the Lid of the Jar/Urn dissolves and when he peers into it, then a Octopus like Face Huger Jumps out..

 

Whats interested is these Jars are described similar to the ones in Prometheus only not ceramic, but how can they be Glossy and Jars, even referred to as bottles to then being Leathery...

 

Looking at the stages, it appears they could start off Leathery then maybe harden after the Organism inside is released. Its also very funny how the lid appears to be going through changes when touched just as David 8 noticed when he went up to one of the Urns.

 

I am sure the Urns are based more of Star Beast Jars.. only instead of Organism, they contain a Bio-Weapon... Goo and ampoules.

 

Whats interesting is Star Beast at the end describes the Organism changing crew members into what it calls Spores, just like in the Temple...

 

But a odd thing is how do markings appear on them after? i can only assume that the Host is changed into something that is then placed and sealed into the Jars.

 

Or most likely the Jars was the safe keeping of the Organism/Weapon and after that the Organism could mutate Hosts to become a Spore that would hold another starting point of the Organisms life cycle.

I am sure thus that Prometheus re-used some un-used ideas from Star Beast as when the draft evolved to Alien and Concept work by Giger, there was Eggs then.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMar-02-2015 9:47 AM

Now as far as the 2nd  point, that being the Urns being created...

I think this is pretty much solid fact, that these Urns are used to store the Bio-Weapon, as far as the connection to the Eggs... This is the tricky one and one that the other draft could answer for us...

First of all the Frescos show us Alien Egg, this means the Eggs are known to the Engineers, and so either

1) The Eggs are something that is involved in a process to make the Goo, i.e a Re-weaponizing.

2) The Eggs are the result of something they are creating from the Goo, whether that is what they produce is unknown, but it could be that it is ONE THING that could be produced... and maybe their desired intention or not?

3) The contents of the Urns evolve into Eggs... i dont buy this one as i will explain in a moment.

If we go to Spaights draft, indeed the Temple and Cave complex has a number of different kinds of Xeno, variations of the Eggs.  Could they been creating various kinds either from re-engineer something they found, or are various Eggs a product of something they have created.

The only Urns we see are described as in Prometheus and Fifield knocks on over, and it smashes and releases Nana Scarabs that bite him and he is mutated and has his DNA changed and appears to evolve into something more Xeno than Prometheus... so the contents of those Urns Evolved and passed on Xeno Traits via being bitten by the Bugs that was contained in the Urn..

In Prometheus we are led that the Goo inside evolves the Worms to Hammerpedes, and also some of that Goo leads to Hollow + Shaw = Baby Trillobyte Face Huger that then produces the Deacon via Engineer... thus very similar to the Xeno DNA...

Now Spaights draft, shows us no Sacrificial Goo, instead there is just Bugs, these Bugs do not evolve or mutate him, they break him down by consuming him molecule by molecule... like how the Goo broke the Engineer down.

We see in Prometheus the broken down Engineer DNA/Soup goes into the Water Fall, and we then see the start of life, or evolution of it.

In Spaights these millions of bugs fly off, they are next seen biting a Primate and injecting the DNA they consumed from the Engineer, and this created a Primate/Engineer Hybrid which became mankind...

So logically in Spaights draft the Fifield was mutated into something similar to the Xeno, because those Bugs must have bitten and ingested the DNA of something related to the Xeno.

If we switch back to Prometheus we have the Mural in front of a Altar and in earlier shots (trailers) there was no Green Orb, but the Sacrificial Bowl instead....  The Deacon was standing in Cruciform pose..... and funny enough this is the pose the Engineer in Spaights draft took as he was being consumed by the Bugs..

Cruciform = Sacrifice..

Thus logic would say the Urns contain the broken down genetic material of the Xeno or some Organism that is either related, predates the Xeno, or came as a result of a Xeno.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMar-02-2015 9:56 AM

Finally the Evolving Urns to Eggs theory.....

This was not the case, or how it seemed....  after Alien and even Aliens Ridley described what had happened to the Space Jockey, his ship was carrying a cargo of Eggs, he then got infected by the Cargo and then he crash landed the Derelict on LV 426 and set off a warning beacon to warn his fellow race that the cargo had been compromised.

Only since Prometheus and maybe a change of direction to how the Goo works, they seemed to be going for something similar to my theories, but have later changed how they want to represent it, making even a Weyland File on the Goo and Urns that well contradicts what we see on film.

Anyway after Prometheus Ridley talked about Part 2 and the Goo in which he said was Biologic Drums of £!$%£$ that they would drop onto a World... 

He then referred to the Space Jockey and this deadly cargo, and said that this ship was carrying its cargo but something happened, the cargo Evolved and got to the Pilot.

So thats the later stance by Ridley that could indeed suggest the Urns either Evolved, or that something got contaminated with one that produced something that taken care of the Space Jockey and then maybe further evolved the other Urns into Eggs, or even Laid them we cant be sure...

The one problem i have with this is, the Fresco... the Engineers knew the Urns could create Eggs or came from them...

I just dont see how they would fit, as the Urns contained a ****tail that could evolve life into something new and one Urn could infect a whole number of lifeforms... how does this make sense to then change into one single lifeform.

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

Svanya

PraetorianAdmin4319 XPMar-03-2015 10:40 AM

* I meant, changing into eggs via script changes, not physically changing into eggs. The Leathery urns of Star Beast evolved into the eggs as we know them and in Prometheus its the urns. 

 

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMar-03-2015 4:23 PM

Yeah i understand what you mean Svanya...

So even as i misunderstood you, the misunderstanding holds a lot of weight too, because they was described as being Leathery Jars with Markings at one point, but then at the end the Star Beast was turning people into what they said was more Spores, which made me think how can a Organism change people into Jars with Markings on them.

I do think Alien dropped the Urn/Jar look with markings on, and gave us a Egg these Organisms came from... But then in Prometheus they found a lot of unused Star Beast concept work and unused work from the draft very good and decided to base stuff off those unused elements.

For example the Temple, the Mural Room and Altar, the Jars with markings, the Octopus Organism (Shaws Trillobite) especially when it was first removed fits the description of the first stage Star Beast.

There was also a ritual and sacrificial look and purpose to what was going on in Star Beast, and these are hinted in the Prometheus Mural and Frescos... also of interest is in Star Beast the Giant Race who was found dead onboard the Derelict, was in the process of taking these Urns/Jars from the Temple to Experiment on... but then fell foul to the Organism.

And Prometheus lays a lot of clues to me that could indicate our Giants (Engineers) could have had a similar fate, and maybe that explains the Derelict and the Chest Busted Cryo Pods,  and maybe the Xeno was something the Engineers found and then tried to re-engineer, or they tried to re-engineer and use the DNA of something created from a encounter with the Xeno... i.e First Engineer Deacons.. and favoured the DNA of this Hybrid as opposed to their own DNA for seeding.

Thats my take, but it does kind of fit into how in Star Beast our Giant Race who belonged to the Derelict, had came across the Organism and not actually created it. But some other not shown or descibed race in Star Beast had created the Organisms in the Jar.

And likewise even if they dont go the Engineers found the Xeno route, i am sure they would go the route that something else created the Xeno, and also created the Engineers for maybe the purpose of being Hosts.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

brego

OvomorphMember81 XPMar-13-2015 7:09 PM

I think it's all in the evolutuin of what ever creature Morphs into when they are effected by the black goo. For all we know another Creature (perhaps seen in one of the Murals) morphed into a form of Xeno which was the creature chasing The Engineers in Prometheus. This creature killed or infected most of these engineers, went on to lay eggs (one of which hatched and face hugged the Space Jockey, he manages to escape via the Derilict and Crash Lands on LV426. One Engineer manages to lock himself in the Juganaut and puts himself into hyposleep for 2000 years. The Space Jockey's chest burster erupts on LV426 and makes its way down into the basment where it matures and lays more eggs, one of which as we know inpregnates Kane and later on WY staff. So what we see is third generation Xeno in Alien and Aliens. Perhaps each generation differ in body shape depending on the species involved. Perhaps the first gen look more like The Deacon, but I doubt it as it's inception was via human to human - human to Engineer. I think we are dealing with a fluid, changable, varient. I always had in mind that the biomechanical look of the original Alien was due to the fact that an Engineer was it's Origin species, via impregnation, as the body details resemble the Engineers biomechanic suit. However as the Deacon didn't resemble the suit outline at all I guess I'm wrong. Looking forward to seeing what Ridley actually had in mind. I just hope that whatever he decides, we see a return of the dark, terrible, bautiful, elegent and dark metalic black Giger Xeno we all know and love.

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMar-15-2015 3:32 PM

Some good points Brego...

And there has to be a connection.. somehow and someway the Xeno/Engineers Bio Suits and Derelict/Jugernaughts are all genetically connected, somehow they are connected to the Mural and also Frescos and also to the Black Goo thats in those Urns, maybe not the stuff at the start.

But as for how and why, well this has many possibilities, there is a connection between the Space Jockey Chest Buster and the Chest Busted Engineer Cryo Stasis Pods.

What order and connection, well i can go someway to maybe draw us down a path, wether this path is right is another thing....

1) The Space Jockey and Derelict,  here are some interesting things with regards to the Space Jockey and Derelict, the Cargo Hold had a protective Mist.... this barrier had to perform some purpose and to me it has to be one of two things...

i... Eggs.

ii... Urns.

Now if they was Urns the question is how did they evolve, maybe they could but all the clues i got from the movie would be how really would that work?  The Material inside seems to infect Organisms and pass on Xeno DNA, how does it work if one Bio Weapon if the Bio Former liquid that can infect and mutate masses of life, what logical step could be taken for each Bio Weapon that has potential to infect on mass... to just evolve into One Organism Each?

Does not make sense as far as a advanced Bio Weapon.

2) We had been informed by Ridley that the Derelict had a Cargo and it was a Bio Weapon Cargo, at first he said it was Eggs, but then now he claims something may have evolved.

The other thing he said was the Derelict had been down on LV 426 for thousands of years and infact the Space Jockey set down the Derelict on LV 426 within a few hundred years of the event of the outbreak on LV 223.

Now we can thus assume with more fact, that the Derelict had been on LV 426 some 200 years give or take prior to the Outbreak on LV 223 or a few years after...

Which of these makes sense?  Either... maybe Ridley now taking us down the route of it being maybe after...

But i find more evidence that would sugest that does not add up....

So what happens?  These Engineers have their Bio Weapon Go Bio Former, they store it on ships... right?  First where is the Cargo Hold of the Derelict that had the Urns stacked in a way as below..

2nd we assume that 200 years after the outbreak on LV 223, a Engineer ship leaves LV 223 with Eggs evolved from what happened in the outbreak but then only gets as far as LV 426 before the Pilot is infected, or was he infected before he left?  But then he would know his mission would not last long, so logic is he gets infected during flight

He then has to set down to LV 426 and then warn his other Engineers about how his Cargo is Compremised and not to come down...  But who would he warn if most of the other Engineers had been killed off in the outbreak on LV 223?

Unless there was some there or in other temples, but why did they not bother after 200 years to clear up the mess of LV 223, and why did they leave one of their own behind.

Also how come the other ship has Chest Busted Cryo Pods?

Another thing to look at is the Mural...

The Mural shows us a lifeform that is like the Xeno, it even has facehugged Engineers (two kinds of facehugger)... The Fresco shows us some strange Organism, that kind of looks like the head at the top of the Mural Archway... and the other Fresco which on film we never saw well but in reality had a Xeno Egg, with some Xeno related Organism holding it.

Does this show us they knew what the Urns would produce? that they can make Eggs? But why different kinds of Face Huger?  And what about the effects of the Goo in Prometheus?

HOWEVER....

What if we consider the Derelict had crashed some 200 years prior to LV 223 outbreak...

The Cargo was Eggs,  this show the Engineers knew about the Xeno Eggs, and what if LV 223 was a place they carried out tests on them, created them or what ever....

They was shipping the stuff out but then the Cargo got compremised.. The Space Jockey warns those on LV 223 that "hey i hit a problem and got infected with the Cargo"

This would explain the mist as a precaution to transport the Eggs....

so what we have is LV 223 then becomes a place they at a latter point, attempted to re-weaponize the Xeno Egg, or create something else from its DNA.

Did the Chest Busted Cryo Pods on the Juggernaught happen after that ship had gone to LV 426 and then returned?

There is no timeframe for the Ghost Engineers on LV 223 or those on the Juggernaught, we can not say that the first Hologram Scene happened before or after or indeed how many years before or after...

David leaves Some Clues by saying the ship was going to Earth before things went bad for them, so maybe the latter Hollogram happened prior...

The Cryo Pods that was chestbusted was a ambigious mystery, how and when and how come one Engineer was fine.. etc..

We may never know...

But indeed all clues to me seem to add up that most likely the Space Jockey event happened prior and not after the LV 223 outbreak...

 

 

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMar-15-2015 3:51 PM

Now Brego... i will adress the Deacon and why it lacked the Mechanical look of the Xeno... and also why it was big...

This comes down to a quite simple reason, and especially if we look at how Spaights idea for the Bio Former worked..... i have covered this before so wont go into detail much...   But Spaights draft had Nano Scarabs in the Sacrificial Cup and also same Scarabs in the Urn that Fifield knocked over that broke....    Scarabs/Goo they all did the same thing to a degree.

Sacrificial  Scarabs + Engineer = Broken down Genetic Material (stored in Scarabs)  Scarabs then bite Primate inject Engineer DNA which = Hybrid Primate/Engineer thus Mankind...

Sacrificial Goo + Engineer = Broken down Genetic Material that then either infects basic life to causes it to Evolve into more complex Life that carries Engineer DNA... or it reforms to produce the first Basic Life that evolves and thus carries Engineer DNA.

Urn Stored Scarabs + Fifield  = Fifield injected with DNA from the Scarab that mutated Fifield to become a Hybrid that had Xeno DNA....

Urn Stored Goo + Fifield = Mutated Fifield that in concept work and alternative scene and even a animatronic Fifield that got scrapped all showed some Xeno DNA.. just as the Hammerpedes did.

And then we have Goo --> Holloway --> Shaw --> Trilobite --> Deacon...

This Deacon had the most Xeno DNA in the movie.... yet it was as you said different.

The answer.....

The Goo passes on Xeno DNA, a infected Hollloway either by infected Sperm, or the Eye-Worm.. (some of Holloways cells had mutated to new Organism) had impregnated Shaw.

We assume one of these fertilised Shaws Egg, which we then got to a baby that was basically a Octopoid Organism that behaved just as a Face Huger...

Difference between Face Hugger and Trillobite...

Face Huger is 100% Xeno.... Trillobite was essentially without going into more detail a Human/Face Huger Hybrid....

This is why the Deacon was born with a Placenta, just as Mammals are, this is why the Deacon had Human Hands and Feet (no Xeno 6 Digits), and its also why the Deacon was larger at Birth and looked more closer to its Adult Form.

A Baby, a Puppy, a Kitten while being smaller and cute they all have the characteristics of the Adult form...

some animals go through stages, and the form they are born with is different to the Adult.... The Xeno was like this...

That my friend is why it think the Deacon did not look Bio-Mech, because at Face Huger Stage it was more Human than Xeno... well at best 50/50 DNA.

If we see this adds up and links to how Spaights draft Scarabs and Goo link, then consider Spaights draft the Engineers was trying to create various kinds of Xeno.

And then in Spaights draft the Urn contained Scarabs that must have got the Xeno DNA from something it consumed i.e Xeno, and then look how the Goo effected the Engineer, and ask could his broken down material had been collected and stored in a Urn?

If so how come the urns contain Xeno DNA? then look at the Mural of the Deacon in Sacrifical Cruciform pose, it all adds up..

When we add all that and the Derelict timeframe event it all adds up that LV 223 at somepoint became a place to create different Organisms based of Xeno DNA and store them in the Urns for safer storage and more varried application...

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

brego

OvomorphMember81 XPMar-17-2015 12:31 AM

As always, interesting and valid points Big Dave.  I still think though that there has to be a connection between to two planetoids 2000 years ago as dated by the Carbon reader. I (as you probably know) have always thought that the Silo in which the eggs were laid out was not the cargo hold of the derelict. I believe it was indeed a subteranean Engineer outpost on top of which the Derelict either landed or crash landed on. As we know the dementions of this Silo cannot be part of the derelict. There may or may not have been Engineers present when the ship landed and perhaps the Laser mist is an automated feature preventing eggs or Urns from hatching or activating. Something either laid or placed the eggs into this area and either the layer automatically activated or it was activated by a surviving Engineer. Perhaps it was a survivor who activated the warning beacon as well. This story line fits into the Prometheus timeline and would create a fantastic back story to link the Alien and Prometheus movies. We as fans want to know and Ridley would be wise after all these years to give us a glimpse of what happened. As for the ongoings in Paradise, I'm looking forward formsome deep dark Gigeresque imagery as most fans were disapointed in the fleshy, biological new creatures in Prometheus. I accept that the Vagina Squid was an abomination caused by the unusual impregnation of Shaw via natural human sex, with an added touch of black goo. But it was ultimately dissapointing at least for me. I think Ridley is going to make full use of what we very briefly saw on the Mural. I truly look forward to a return to the dark, totally Alien Gigeresue world.

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMar-19-2015 7:13 AM

@Brego

 

Indeed we can not be 100% sure what connection LV 223 and 426 have, and if they are going to ever be answered or shown clues in future movies.

 

Here is the thing we have... do we accept what we see on Film, or do we accept what Ridley says about said Films and events or do we have to draw a line to connect the two...

 

You see The Idea in Alien was the Silo is part of the Ship, Ridley even said the Ship was carrying Eggs, and as of late he now says the Ship was carrying Cargo that Evolved.. this is vague but could indicate that something Evolved into those Eggs, or something evolved and could have laid the Eggs... But then explain if they was laid why there is the protective Mist.

 

If we take what we see on screen then there is no Proof at all really that the Egg Chamber has to be part of the ship. Although it could be mildly hinted that it is.

 

We do not know how the Eggs got there, but as far as Alien goes, it seemed to follow the Star Beast Plot in which we had NO QUEEN.. they was not meant to had been laid, the Queen was introduced in Aliens.... But Star Beast while we are shown that the leathery urns are referred to as Spores and the Star Beast at the end was trying to change crew members into more Spores... Alien DC showed us similar only the Spores/Egg was larger than the ones found on/under the Derelict.

 

But Star beast had these Leathery Urns being in some Temple that was accessed via a shaft.... in Alien they wanted to have the Egg Chamber as a separate place but then due to budget restraints it was then added as part of the Ship.

 

Maybe just maybe during the production and concept work of the Egg Chamber it was built and designed to be some underground complex or part of a Temple, but they never got to budget in the Temple and so the Set was used to be accessed from the Derelict?

 

The idea does seem to be that the Chamber is part of the Ship... how do they explain the size...? Well i guess they could go the Dr Who and the Tardis route (transdimensional).

 

The Problem had arisen because of a flaw in Scale... this happened also with the Space Jockey, he appeared big as they entered the Pilot Chamber, but then Smaller when they was up close...

 

The idea was a 26ft Space Jockey, they used Child Actors in Space Suits as they walked up to the Chair, this created the illusion, when actually this would have made him 22ft tops.. Off course when we see up close then the Space Jockey only appears about 16ft but that was in reality the total size of the Chair etc so the Space Jockey Prop was about 13-15ft tops.

 

In Prometheus we have same problems our Engineers was 15ft in the Spaights draft, they revised that to 10ft for when they started to shoot the movie, but again everyone with any sense could see the Illusion was at best 8ft tall Race.

 

If we go to Giger, his idea for the Egg Silo did appear to be a factory that produced the Eggs, when this became part of the Ship it was then the ship that thus produced the Eggs. The earlier concepts had Pregnant Bellies that would give birth to Eggs that are then taken down on like conveyor belts and then stored in the sections, and actually there was many different sections that each had different types of Organism... So the Chamber was split into sections like a Pizza that is cut with each section a slightly different topping...

 

I am not sure they are ever going to explain the Derelict, but yes a separate Silo does make sense, and thus having the Derelict land on top of it for some reason... be that to collect or to drop off samples.

 

The only Problem being that the Derelict looked crashed, it did not look like it had landed perfectly, and Ridley did say it crashed on LV 426 which he then latter after Prometheus said it was more of a landing than a crash. So who knows what explanation he is going for, i can only make sense that it was a attempted landing that went wrong right at the very last moment.

 

A while back i tried to give a Logical Explanation for how the Silo and Ship fit together and the best analogy i had was that it was a separate Cargo Compartment that fitted to the bottom of the ship, pretty much as this Thunderbird 2 image is showing.

 

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d4/ed/b7/d4edb75dabfee5c0063c5c4a30808e24.jpg

 

This has to make more sense, because well if we look at Alien and how they enter the Derelict in Aliens also, and then how Kane ended up falling down to the Egg Chamber, if we consider that and then look at the Juggernaught in Prometheus and from the Map we can make out kind of how the Juggernaught is set out and there is simply no space for such a Chamber at all, there is no large Dome Chamber under it, there is only Dome shaped Chambers to the left and right of the centre control/pilot room, and these in Prometheus had Urns stacked up in different ways.

 

When we see the Derelict and Jugernaught we see both ships on the outside are very very similar...

 

So logically it does not make sense that the Chamber is part of the ship but either a Silo on LV 426 or some kind of Cargo that is attached to the Ship like the Thunderbirds image above..

 

But is that the case? well it still seems that they are leading us to that the Chamber is part of the Derelict still.

 

If we did take the Silo idea, then what Ridley said about something evolved on the Ship, there is a possible explanation that the ship was landed on top and then the Engineer got chest busted and somehow the Organism got down and laid Eggs maybe but then a safety protocol made the protected Mist Barrier to keep those Eggs inside.

 

This has its problems.. another answer could be that the Eggs was stored on LV 426 either after experiments on LV 223 or they Eggs was taken from LV 426 to LV 223 for experiments or Re-weaponizing i.e broken down into Goo.

 

Again there is not much to go by as far as on screen, but Ridley did say the events did occur within few hundred years of each other, just never said was LV 426 Incident before or after the LV 223 one.... and also he did say that the Space Jockey was leaving with a Cargo to go to a destination but it did not get far... this kind of indicates that the ship did not get to its destination due to the Cargo infecting the Pilot, which can only (if we take Ridleys explanations as FACT) mean the Derelict left LV 223 and was not heading to LV 223.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

BigDave

DeaconMember10358 XPMar-19-2015 7:14 AM

I watched Alien again Early on after writing last post but could not post my last post at that time...

 

And its hard to judge how big the Derelict is, the crew enter via the 3 holes at the rear of the ship... (what we thought was front for many years). And they proceed up some corridors that are to small for the Space Jockey and they then go up a floor via some hole and appear on the Derelict Control Bridge.. now when looking at how high the set of the Juggernaughts Pilot Chamber was and how you can see the Glass round Window at the top, and then when looking at the schematics (Map in Prometheus) there seems a possibility that the ship could have two parts and the Orrey Room sits on top....

 

Which could leave room for the Egg Chamber however it would stll be a bit too small scale wise, like half required size...

 

In Prometheus its hard to gauge how far the drop from the Control Room to the 3 openings that Shaw left via, is.... it seemed they walked on one level from the Temple to the Pilot/Control Room and the Concept work showed a ramp that led to about half way point as far as height of the ship....

 

In Alien we have no 100% way of knowing how far the hole they had to climb up to get to the Pilot Chamber was, as the scene cut as they started to climb and then cut to them coming out of the other end so this climb could been 5ft-10ft or 20ft...

 

Its hard to gauge the Pilot Chamber but the ceiling did seem higher up from the Chair than we saw in Prometheus... also the whole area looked 3 times the size of the area in Prometheus.

 

Now whats interesting is the Alien Isolation LV 426 mission on the Derelict...

 

Here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrY88OFnpiY

 

They enter via the same passage as in Alien only in the game is a series of passageways on a slight incline to reach the Pilot Room and they never climbed up no like Man Hole etc.

 

But the scale seems off as this room seems even bigger than in Alien, the one in Colonial Marines seems more to Scale with Alien.

 

So maybe we cant take Isolation as being Scale Perfect...

 

But what is interesting is if we take the journey they make from the entrance to the Pilot Room that drop looking at the Derelicts bottom to the Entrance openings, is no way big enough for the Chamber.

 

In fact the Alien movie likewise unless they climbed up that hole for some 30ft+

 

Anyway back to Isolation, the part where they go down the Hole that leads to the Egg Chamber, they go down a lot deeper than what they climbed to from the entrance of the ship to the Pilot Chamber.

 

And what we saw as the descended was the first so many feet and i would say good 15-20 feet did not look like the Walls of the Egg Chamber but it had a Cave Look to it, like a Lime rock Cavern..

 

Considering how far down they went down the Chamber and in comparison how much lower this point must below the 3 entry holes, could mean that indeed the Egg Chamber is some kind of underground storage facility.

 

When Ridley went the route of now saying something Evolved in the Cargo Hold... he could mean on the Derelict and not the Egg Chamber.

 

Maybe they could go the route thus that the Egg Chamber in Alien was not part of the ship...

 

while Ridley said it was years ago, there is nothing on Screen that says it was 100% part of the ship.... and if we consider the Juggernaughts to be the same even if maybe a bit smaller, but the same design and layout inside, then there is no space for the Egg Chamber, not as far as the way they appeared to walk to the Pilot Room... i.e it did not look like it was up a fair few floors or any ladders....

 

So maybe the Egg Chamber could be shown as being on LV 426 as opposed to being a part of the Derelict, we shall have to wait and see if any clues are shown that would lead us to that.

 

If we even just get to see more of the inside of the Juggernaught in Prometheus 2 that could help to confirm or rule out that the Egg Chamber would be situated where it is assumed it must go...

 

I.e looking at the Juggernaught and Derelict those 3 entry points must line up pretty much to the point where Kane disconnected himself from the rope as he was winched down.

R.I.P Sox  01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017

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