Based on observed facts, want to really understand the last moments of the Engineers at the3,365 Views30 RepliesAdd A Reply
Answer: That was my take on it as well, but let's walk through this and compare mental notes. NOTE: THE FOLLOWING IS HIGHLY SPECULATIVE, but grounded in what I could observe.
Also please note, I often refer to the Engineers as the Gardeners - as they grow all their tech.
1) We know the head was infected, but we don't know about the body because the head was in the room with the Urns, but he was probably already infected and about to die. How do you know that?
2) The worms in the room appeared unaffected by the ooz. If the ooz was loose to infect the head, one might surmise the worms would have been impacted as well. So it appears more likely the headless engineer was already infected when he ran to the room because we know the head was per the explosion scene in the Prometheus lab. So what?
3) Perhaps the infected Gardener was chasing the other Gardeners like Fifield did when he got infected and came back to the Prometheus OR perhaps we wanted to contain himself, but that seems less likely. Why?
4) IMPORTANT: Because pretty clearly the headless Gardener didn't set the door to close while running and on his own head did he? It had to be somebody or something else. Who or what was it?
5) It could have been the first Gardeners running in front of the headless one except they weren't in the urn room when the door opened and we never saw them leave on the holographic recording, but we know something else. What's that?
6) Somebody or something turned on the holographic recording. Who was that?
7) David. David may have done so inadvertently or purposefully, but after David activates the first control panel, the holograms start and David stands still taking it in in what a human would deem amazement. So I'd vote inadvertent, but there's something else. What's that?
8 ) We don't know what triggers the urns. If the presence of the Gardener's head and the other Gardeners who go in, but are not seen going out, doesn't trigger the urns, then what does?
9) It appears to be the team from Prometheus's breath falling over the urn, but that's not a definitive lock. David then notes the activity on top of the urn (and naturally says nothing). Why might we think this?
10) Because carbon dioxide breath is actually a common triggers in nature. For example, if you approach a bee hive and stand close by and hold your breath, they won't attack, but the moment you breath your carbon dioxide breath over hive, they will swarm out (google it for video). Mosquitoes also track by carbon dioxide. Gardener's do grow everything so that might be how the writer's decided to trigger the urns, but what about the Gardeners who ran in there (in the hologram)?
11) Note, those Gardeners were wearing their helmets which leads us to the other reason it might be breath. Which is?
12) Our writers purposefully had our Prometheus team take off their helmets. It is a colorful character element to demonstrate Charlie's adventurous to foolhardy nature, but this would put it into the category of necessary plot element and justify the screen time for taking off helmets. But wait Fifield and Milburn were wearing their helmets in the urn room in their "death scene"?
13) True, but by then the goo was out and the worms who were virtually transformed into Xeno worms got them. So who cares?
14) Remember, this stromatolite building, with its total coating of bio'tech'logy ooz coating and liquid running down every hall has an atmosphere. So what?
15) The Gardeners were wearing their helmets when they ran into the urn room...even the infected Gardener. As were all the dead Gardener bodies suits found by Fifield and Milburn. Maybe it was because they loved their helmets? So what?
16) The what is the Gardeners grow everything. So what?
17) So their suits, the building, the ooz on the walls is all DNA/RNA based. So what?
18 ) None of it gets sick or even infected on exposure to the black ooz virus - only the Gardeners/humans/titans/space jockeys/engineers get sick from touch exposure to the black ooz virus. Why is that?
19) From observation, it has to be ingested. What about Fifield?
20) His head landed face down forcibly in a puddle black ooz after his vizor after the xeno worm's acid blood ate through it. So what?
21) So then we know that the Gardeners who wore their suits in the room weren't concerned about catching it by touch. So what?
22) So they were probably wearing it to hide their carbon dioxide concentrated in their breath and they were running to the room
either to stay ahead of the already infected and soon-to-be-decapitated Gardener OR because the facility was already triggered and going into auto lock down. What facility?
23) The whole building was coated with in bio-techo-logy ooz as demonstrated by David and the interfaces and the holograms. How are the holograms involved?
24) What did you think was projecting the wire trace lines that made up the holograms all over the facility, magic? Ok, so what?
25) So the deader than dead looking "dome rock" is actually alive, meaning fully operational - just like their ship. It appears to be a grown stromatolite, and any where you like it processes atmosphere, can project holograms, has probably waste water running through it constantly and has control panels. Um, okay, maybe, but so what?
26) So this is pure conjecture, but maybe the gardeners were running to the room before the installation closed the door, but I don't think so because all the Gardeners (including the one that lost its head) were being chased by someone. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
27) When the hologram first starts, all the Gardeners run past quickly looking forward and then ONLY the last Gardener (who eventually loses his head) looks back over his shoulder to see if anyone is behind him. Only the last Gardener of the group checked behind himself, aka over his should. This indicates there's someone, perhaps even another group, he suspects behind him that might explain why they're all running and this tells us the Gardeners we saw were a group and somethign more. What's that?
28 ) Well, first let's note that the Gardener who lost his head, definitely had the virus already. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
29) That last Gardener of the group who lost his head, crumpled to the floor prior to the doorway and losing his head. That's why he was laid out on the floor to get his head chopped off in the first place. He clearly didn't trip, his knees appear to buckle. So he was definitely already infected. Okay so what?
30) So it was a group of Gardeners are all running to the isolation/urn room being chased by someone else (possibly a group). What's more it appears the group was so concerned that they starting shutting the door before the last one could get it. So what?
31) So they were trying to keep someone out of the room, but they failed. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
32) Because they left the room and died. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?
33) Because Fifield and the Biologist find their dead bodies piled up in the hallway. How do you know they are the same group?
34) You mean aside from the fact that they are a group of fully outfitted/helmeted Engineers, just like the running hologram Gardeners group were all fully outfitted/helmeted? Yes, too flimsy, they could wear those helmets all the time, right?
35) The control room shows the hologram of the Engineers not wearing their helmets. That's true, but I need more proof!
35) You mean aside from the fact that our headless Engineer's head exploded in the lab and Fifield notes very loudly (in case the audience missed seeing the what was clearly in scene) that the group of helmeted Engineers all have their heads exploded as well? So what, it could be another group of infected engineers all wearing full protective suits and helmets inside - I need more proof!
36) Glad you persisted; you know that big pile of bodies? We know the virus appears to be spread only through ingestion (see above). These Gardeners knew about the black ooz virus. They knew not to eat it. So unless you think one infected Gardener can kill all the rest (and we didn't see a hologram of any of that fighting), we can see how one Gardener might get sick, but ALL OF THEM? It is almost like ï¿½someoneï¿½ put it in their drinking water or food. Interesting, but so what?
37) So in addition to the look over the shoulder indicating another ï¿½someoneï¿½ else, we have a group of 'poisoned by virus' Gardeners all at once which might also indicate another ï¿½someoneï¿½. It could have been mass suicide, but that wouldnï¿½t explain their being chased. Okay, so what?
38 ) Well, that means they all ran into the urn room together as a group. So what?
39) We find them all, except the headless dead one, in the hallway. So what?
40) Well, it is speculation, but Iï¿½d speculate it might indicate that they were force marched down the hallway. Oh, come on, why?
41) Because the headless Gardener was left in the door way. Please, so what?
42) The headless Gardener couldn't move on his own, he was dead, but the sick Gardeners could. Ya, so what?
43) We infer there was another ï¿½someoneï¿½ or group (as noted above). Our hologram group of Gardeners (including the headless one) may (or may not) know at this point that they are sick, but they know they're being chased. (Just a note: they could be hiding, but it looked like a close pursuit to me based on their full out stride and no attempt to move quietly.) So they go into the urn room with the Prometheus, the titan, mural. Wait? What mural to Prometheus?
44) That urn room mural depicted Prometheus and probably his punishment. Why do you say that?
45) Because the Mural on the ceiling displays Prometheus's punishment scene. How do you know it is Prometheus?
46) The ceiling mural shows a man in a roughly stitched shirt/vest, fabric leggings, and likely boot footwear with what speculatively is a nasty twisty slash across his abdomen and the bird beast. So the guy is either an earth human with a bird like beast or titan with a bird like beast. Why donï¿½t you think heï¿½s another Gardener?
47) His clothing is explicitly not grown, rather it is un-alive artifacts manufactured by hand. The style and tech isnï¿½t reminiscent of anything Gardener grown. It is explicitly reminiscent of earth clothes or perhaps another non-gardener human, perhaps like a Titan. Also, Iï¿½ve never seen an earth human with what might be a large abdominal scar with a giant bird beast like that one. So call me crazy, but I speculate that the bird beast is there to peck out his Titan liver daily for all eternity leaving that nasty twisty slash on his abdomen. Maybe the slash is just a decorative motif. Have a look:
But since Prometheus, the titan, angered the gods and according to the myth 'helped' humanity by giving humanity fire, and also in some versions created humanity, it would make sense that a mural of a man with a slash on his abdomen next to a clearly bird like beast in a room on a moon pointed to by ancient-earth-star-map-glyphs from all over left by the Engineers would be Prometheus I speculate. Let's get back on track...
48 ) So after being chased, the sick but certainly healthy-enough-to-run-into-the-room Gardeners go into urn room with Prometheusï¿½ mural on the ceiling. Clearly conjecture, but they probably did not go in to admire Prometheus' giant bust. Yet they almost all leave unseen to later be found all together in a tight pile all on one side of a hallway/more or less along one wall, except for the headless one. So what happened?
a) Did they all die in the room together? All their infected bodies later to be moved by "someone else" and stashed in the hall way? Wouldn't ï¿½theyï¿½ have also moved the headless Gardener too then? Why leave the headless body and move all the rest? I canï¿½t think of why anyone would move all their dead bodies with exploded heads except the headless one.
b) Did they leave the Prometheus room themselves (later) to go hide in a hallway, but with their heads exploding I don't see them dying in a tight pile like that. And would they have left their headless comrade behind? Possibly I guess.
c) When I see dead bodies in a tight pile, all on one side of a hallway (which is to say strewn together against one wall) this to me says, crime scene (especially if they were last ï¿½seenï¿½ alive somewhere else being chased by someone else.) That might also explain the headless body. The still mobile, but sick and soon to be knee buckling group of Gardeners might have been force marched to the hallway under their own remaining power. This might explain leaving the headless guy untouched because he couldnï¿½t be force marched, his body was diseased, and speculatively our Gardeners were weak and dying.
49) I suspect option (c), but that still leaves the biggest question. What's that?
50) How did the headless Gardener get infected? Or more accurately how did the first Gardener get infected of all those dead gardeners in the hall way pile up.
Answer: Don't know; didn't see that in the movie and I cannot see any way to derive it. That's disappointing; can't you tell us something?
51) Glad you asked, you know that big pile of bodies? We know the virus appears to be spread only through ingestion (see above). These Gardeners knew about the black ooz virus. They knew not to eat it. So unless you think one infected Gardener can infect all the rest through their suits (and we didn't see a hologram of any of that fighting), we can see how one Gardener might get sick through a mishap, but ALL OF THEM? It is almost like ï¿½someone elseï¿½ or ï¿½something elseï¿½ put it in their drinking water. So
52) Perhaps the last act of those Gardeners in the holograms was to get infected eight hours earlier as a group perhaps by ï¿½someoneï¿½, have time to put on their helmets, be chased as a group by ï¿½someoneï¿½, close themselves in the urn Prometheus mural room accidentally killing the last Gardener as he collapses (already sick and buckling) in front of the door, losing his head, before showing up in a group along one wall in the hall way, but at least some perhaps all of them were sick BEFORE they went into the urn room. So what?
53) So maybe the ï¿½urn roomï¿½ wasnï¿½t an ï¿½urn roomï¿½ when they died. Speculation, but maybe it was the Prometheus room (mural and head) or mural room, or green crystal room, but it probably wasnï¿½t full of virus urns when Gardner group went there when the hologram occurred. After all, we know the hologram doesnï¿½t show the last moments and it seems unlikely given their last actions. Why do you say that?
54) First, because we never see the Gardeners leave ï¿½ the hologram appears to omit this. Second, would a group of Gardeners run full speed into a room full of virus urns if they werenï¿½t sick? Would a group of Gardeners run full speed into a room full of virus urns if they were sick (because isnï¿½t knocking over urns an issue when youï¿½re flailing around in death throws as a group)? If the room was empty of urns, however, this isnï¿½t an issue. Speculatively, this supports the idea that the original function of the room was not to hold the urns at all. Iï¿½d offer the urns might have been added afterwards by ï¿½someoneï¿½ else. But why leave the dead body at the door?
55) You got me. Perhaps the Gardeners dies there just to lead us, the audience, during that hologram to infer it was the last moment before we arrived on the scene since the body is still there, but if thatï¿½s true Who were they looking at over their shoulder? how did the other Gardeners get out of the room? Hmm, did we see them run into the room? I think we did ï¿½ maybe not. Maybe ï¿½someoneï¿½ else was already in the room and closed the door on that one Gardener who lost his head? I would mention one last thing.
56) The Gardeners preparing the ship in the control room hologram (with David) don't appear to be in any rush. Maybe that was taken before the "emergence" or maybe they're relaxed because they are the "others". If the prior case, then we know that the last Gardener, who ripped up David, did so with no knowledge of the emergency (since he was already in hyper sleep.) If the latter case, it might explain his bowing and then attacking (as opposed to leading/befriending, etc.).
So the most interesting part is that all the Engineers/Gardeners some how got infected at one go.
I doubt Prometheus was meant to dig so deep into, just sayin'
Hi Freeze, just a couple of notes. I'd offer it depends on the story lens you use to look at the film. Most seem to see it as an "incomplete SciFi", but a great deal of the story writing, such as "pushes" you see in the film's writing, including misdirection, purposeful distractions, "recreations of the crime", etc. make Prometheus appear a great deal like another genre, the murder mystery. And it holds up under that kind of scrutiny. So if you like, perhaps re-think Prometheus in that light or don't...whatever you like.
Lindelof and Scott have noted they spent a great deal of time working out the bones of the story, though without penning the sequel and leaving options open. In the mean time, have fun comparing notes or again don't...entirely up to you.
cool write up, but in my observation, nothing states that it must be ingested orally. We don't know if the worms ingested or merely bathed in the goo to become the hammerpedes.
we also don't see Fifield actually ingest anything, he merely falls face first into it. so it's possible that even prolonged contact with the skin could do it, (but you're probably right)
In regards to the fleeing Engineers in the hologram, we are missing one very important part of the equation- THE DEACON SCREAM, which occurs immediately after David activates the recording. (In line with the skin that Millburn and Fifield find in a deleted scene)
i have yet to make complete sense of this, but I would wager that some Xeno type creatures were accidentally made, or introduced as a means of sabotaging the base.
im going to read through this again, then I will annoy you more with some thoughts :)
oh, and @Freeze, really? Aren't you an admin on this site, lol? Are you saying we shouldn't frequent the site and hash out new ideas anymore?
Do you think movies like Memento, Inception, Blade Runner, etc aren't deliberately cryptic? These movies, like Prometheus, are presented as puzzles, and puzzles are made to be solved, no? Anyway, with all of the Easter eggs, and clues we have found in the last 2 years, can you really say this wasn't the movie maker's intention?
i would beg to differ. Us fanboys carrying on like this was ABSOLUTELY the point.
If potholes are blackholes and blackholes are now apperently grey...I don't know what to say? Except if one follows the grey rabbit down the Giger Tube you won't be coming back cause it's so deep. Those installations are more than mere bases, to produce and store weapons. There was no ACCIDENT more like sacred initiation of space travel : http://youtu.be/B4o_4ifMd6Y
I will leave this in your capable hands
Great post, Deneba!
I do agree with Freeze that much more is being read into the story than was actually written. However, I also think there IS more than what was revealed and that it was the intent of those involved that the mysteries be turned over and over by the fans, ala Alien.
That said, another film or two frees the artists to add depth, and you know they will, so its probable that many of the ideas here will surface in the upcoming sequel(s). Or, maybe new and marvelous ideas that we haven't come up with already. It will be very interesting to see what Ridley and Paglen bring to the story now, and Im confident that fan satisfaction is a key priority.
I agree that Prometheus works as a murder mystery, and have said before that it has a sort of Hitch**** psychodrama feel to it that I personally love. I think it was the right way to go, and can't wait to see where it goes next!
1) The movie appears to show us that the Engineers was contaminated and infected and trying to run into the Room where the Mural was. The movie seems to hint that the infected Engineers bodies was being broken down like the Sacrificial Engineers just at a slower rate. Maybe the holes in the Engineers is basically as a result of a chemical reaction as we see the Goo at the start of the movie breaks down the Engineers complete molecular construction and this process seems violent like a violent chemical reaction...
Pretty much like when you add a mento to coke it causes a reaction now this reaction is not so bad if you put it into a glass of coke, but if this reaction occurs in a pressured container like a bottle then it because violent because the gas cannot escape and so it will try and escape and explode from the easiest way out which usually is the weakest point in the container.. For example if the lid is not tight it will explode from there, if there is a tiny hole in bottle it would explode from there.
So i assume and my best description for what we are seeing is as the Engineers DNA is broken down via a volatile chemical reaction with the Goo then the resulting broken down matter tries to escape at the weakest point it can and thats why it just explodes from the Engineers.
2) The movie shows us that its intended that the Hammerpedes are what became of the Worms once it comes into contact with the Goo from the Urns, the Goo Evolves and Mutates the Worms and they appear to take on Xeno traits.
3) This is where the movie does not give us enough clues, the Engineers where running from something they was looking over their shoulders, however it appears they was infected also. We could say maybe they was running from the headless Engineer but he was not the last of the running pack there was more behind him and he was only left behind because he fell over and then when he got up he could not get through the door in time, it does look like he was in pain and something had taken control over his body so he felt to the ground.
In Spaights draft he shows us the Engineers was running in a attempt to kill themselves to stop the process of infection occurring, but we can not use this as canon.
So the whole what happened and why they ran and from what is a matter that has been covered and that could take more than a few sentences to try and explain.
4) Most likely they would have been running from a outbreak of the Goo or something that was in one of the Jugernaught ships and when things went to pot they would have proceeded to get to the Mural Room and maybe a as a Alarm was set off then it was only a matter of time that they had to get to this room before it would seal itself off to prevent anyone getting to that room.
Why and what protection that room had is unknown, maybe they could not allow any infected or contaminated Engineers to get into the Mural and Ampoule room? But some did and where these guys got to is any ones guess, could they had got out of another door and then became overcome by the infection, did they escape? Maybe and most likely they got to another Ship and went into Cryo Stasis but these few who got into the Mural Room was infected and thats why the 3 other cryo pods seem to had been Chest Busted or similar.
5) Pretty much covered above..
Its going to take some time to do the rest lol, i will break it down bit by bit based on scene, and the above 5 seem to be about the Engineers running into the Mural Room and the effect in that room.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
6) I think you mean by what recorded the Engineers and how, well thats not quite known and we have to just assume they had some kind of CCTV that records the events of certain rooms, like how many Military and even Hospitals etc have CCTV in the real world.
So i would say they are automatic but the last recording taken was of the Engineers, so maybe they are turned on via motion detectors?
7) Oh i see you meant for above who turns on the Hologram well it would seem that David activated something that turned them on, now did he know what he had done? Who knows he could have done, for sure he can read the Engineers Language and also the Engineers could use some kind of technology and nano tech that our eyes can not see but that the Engineers and David can. This could be evident from when David examines the slime, it appears to have something inside that David can see at microscopic level.
8) It is most likely that certain atmospheric changes to the room, including temperature changes could affect the Urns, maybe also its some kind of chemical contamination that sets them off such as the presence of CO2 which is exhaled by Carbon based life as part of its respiratory system.
It seems that the room when opened is affected by the Prometheus crew but how and why, maybe the sudden change of atmosphere from outside to inside that room. i.e that sealed room is a sterile environment or it contains no oxygen etc.
We have to assume the Engineers that got inside did not set off the Urns, and he head certainly did not... only when the Humans entered did we see a reaction and now they had no helmets on and so we have to look at how these Engineers would use such a weapon upon us.
It would make sense that certain environments and atmospheric contaminations cause them to activate, now if the crew had no helmets on they would be breathing and exhaling chemicals and in particular CO2.
The Temple complex the crew walk into has a breathable atmosphere, so does the Juggernaught Control Room, and its corridors and the Engineers may not need there suits to breath outside as the Engineer did get to Shaw on the Lifeboat by running across the surface of LV 223 with no mask and so he must even if for short time be able to breath in that atmosphere.
So what other purpose was there for wearing the Space Jockey suits? Maybe they could be same as Hazmat suits and that they wear them so that it prevents them from contaminating the environment and keeping it sterile. This makes sense as if we are created like the Engineers then maybe they too exhale CO2 and so my point is maybe if the crew had kept their helmets on maybe they would not have contaminated the environment and thus activated the Urns?
Just read them and basically what i had wrote above lol, should read 9-15 first lol... so yes you basically come to same conclusions as me on them...
will try answer other points but again will take major essays so i may not lol
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
From what we see the Engineers Tech is Bio-Mech but the Engineers themselves are Organic just like us, the Worms Organic, the crew Organic.
We can only assume that once the Goo mutates Organic Material it then becomes Bio-Mech well carries Xeno traits and once it is mutated it can not be mutated again, i say this because the Mutated/Evolved Hammerpedes are swimming in the Goo and so how come they are not futher mutated?
As far as why the suits are not affected well it has to be that they are not Organic enough to be effected, there does seem to be a connection between the Engineers Bio Mech look of there Ship and the Complex Walls, and the Xenomorph and the Xenomorph structures they seem to build as in Aliens etc.
Maybe the Engineers actually reverse Engineered their Tech from the Xeno or its Ancestor we just dont know, the Engineers at the start of the movie and that ship did not have the Bio Mech look, but this cant be used to say they never possessed that Bio-Tech at that period in time which may been over 500 Million years ago.
I stated in a earlier reply that i believe the facility went into a auto lock down/quarantine mode once a outbreak had occurred but it was not enough to save all but one of the Engineers.
Indeed there could be some connection to the Slime and maybe it contains tiny nano information and technology that can be manipulated by the Engineers, its is a technology that Human Eyes can not see. The Engineers also seem to use a lot of Audio in there technology such as how David had to use the flute to start up and activate the control room.
The Rock Mound does look like its made from Rock but that does not mean its not constructed and so not natural and i would say its constructed as there appeared to be at least 4 more mounds on the way to the one Prometheus landed at and they all seemed to be set out in a uniform pattern... i.e like Holloways comment "God does not build in straight lines"
These Temples do seem to have some processing plant that is terraforming the atmosphere in some parts of the complex.. And also producing Water.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
It does seem that we assume the Engineers in the hologram were running from something, or for some reason, and trying to get into the Ampule Room. We see them running in their pressure suits. Is it possible they could have come from another one of the domes & were seeking refuge in the first dome's Ampule Room? I am only thinking this because they were running in pressure suits, but we know the atmosphere in the domes is breathable. I may be grasping here, but I just thought it was worth mentioning?
Well now i can try answering the rest which seems to be aimed at the Hologram Engineers and Dead Engineers.
Well as with a lot of this movie we dont not have the full set of clues to give us a definite answer, its very ambiguous but thats what the intended...
So here is the kind of facts we got from that scene...
1) We see the Ghost Engineers first appear to be running from something and we cant be sure where they was running from as when we look at the times we see the Map of the Complex we see the entry point where the crew enter no soon as it starts to map but latter more complete map shots its hard to work out what point that is or where the Engineers are running from.
We can only see where they are running to, and that is the Mural/Altar/Big Head Room, on the map this room lies right under where the spiral and hole lead to the top of cave, however i would assumed that to had been the room where the Well was as we see the water drop down from above, but nope the map confirms the Mural Room is the centre point.
But yes we see the Engineers running to this point and it appears we see at least 6-7 of them that includes the one who fell over by the Door and had his head taken off. We see a few fall over but the first one we see fall over may not be the last one we see looking over his shoulder and who just before he gets to the Mural Room is overcome by something and falls to the ground between the corridor and Mural Room and thus when the door sealed it took off his Head.
So thats at least 7 in total, one decapitated...... there could had been more in that scene due to how the angles was changed and shot, but thats ambiguous and there is however at least 7 that ran towards to the Mural Room.
Now Fifield and Milburn get lost not far from that Central Room as shown on the map when they are lost they are outside that room, when they find the dead Engineer bodies again they are outside that room and when they are attacked by the Hammerpedes they are on the inside of that room... as far as the Map shows.
So the Door where the Engineers bodies are piled up leads to that Mural Room also, and here we see at very least 13-15 Engineers piled up and at least another on the floor just down to the door.
The way they are piled up looks like maybe they was trying to either get into that Room, which fits in with why the other Engineers tried and got into the other door when running away from something. (but then if they knew they was infected why would they not run away from others who are exploding? Or if something is running after them and it got to some of them then why did the others not run away to find another place to escape.
Milburn did say it reminded him off something from the Holocaust so maybe this could mean the bodies had been piled up there by someone but who and why.
But regardless we have at least i recon 15 Engineers here, now maybe that means that the Scene we saw the Hologram Engineers running to get to the Mural Room there was more than 7 who made it through, but then why would they then run through another door and try and get back through it when it was closed? And why would they head out into those corridors where either what ever was running after them would be lurking and its not far to get to that door from where the other door is. Or if they was not running from anything but just for some reason trying to get to that Room then why venture back out of it?
Logically the way i am thinking about this situation is that the 7 or so Engineers we saw running was trying to get to that Room for some reason... But maybe some outbreak or contamination had occurred and the place went onto lock down, in which these Engineers got to the Room in time... apart from the one who fell.
The other set of 15 or so Engineers also tried to get to the Room from somewhere but by the time they got there the Doors had been sealed shut and as David could open them we have to assume that some automatic failsafe lockdown procedure had occurred so those Engineers could not open it from the outside and maybe inside at that point before they died.
2) We now go to the other Hologram Scene on the Jugernaught Control/Pilot Chamber.
Now we see 4 Engineers are in this scene two come from the right, but two also come from the left and one is holding a Space Jockey Helmet and the other one of those goes into the Control Chair,.
We can see the one in he Chair is the Last Engineer well looks the same, looks like Ian Whyte and the other who kneels down in front of him to have a conversation looks like John Lebar who also played an Engineer.
We see the Engineer kneeling goes to the top right Cryo Pod before Hologram stops, another who at that points is walking up the ramp on that side heads to the bottom right.
The Top Left is occupied by another Engineer who has been for most part spending longer messing about around his Cryo Pod which is the Survivor one. The left bottom one has no one near it by the time the Hologram cuts out but we have to assume the Engineer in the Chair either goes into it or he goes into the top left one, while the Engineer near the top left goes to the bottom left one.
What we are left with is we see that the Top Left Cryo Pod contains the Last Engineer, while the other 3 Cryo Pods have Holes in them, and holes that appear as if something has exploded out but that does not have to be the case.
Why only one survivor? and does the fact we seem to see that pod is being messed aboutcalibrated with longer than the others.
A major point here is that these Engineers seem Calm, chances are this never occurred after the Outbreak unless it was this group who was some who maybe got to the Mural Room, or maybe they stacked up the bodies outside the other door but there is no proof for either of those.
Or we are left with is these Engineers on the Juggernaught control room are calm, and maybe logical would tell us this event may have happened prior to the Outbreak.
So what happened? Well its anyones guess, the Deacon Scream may just be coincidence nothing more, but what is a mystery is the holes in the other Cryo Pods, that seems to be like Chest Buster size, now the Concept art and Spaights draft indeed shows these Engineers was chest busted.
I had thought before we put more emphasise on outbreak, that maybe something Chest Bust from these 3 Cryo Pods and this is what chassed the Engineers away, maybe if this is so then the Chest Busting could have happened not right before the Engineers was running so that means what ever Chest Busted could had grown.
But we cant be sure, and if we take the clues that Fox are now trying to show and tell us, is these Engineers was infected with Goo.
How, and why and when in connection to when the holes occurred in the Cryo Pods in not sure. They could have happened after the outbreak, so the one Engineer may had been safe in his pod during the outbreak but why the others not safe, again we just cant tell for sure.
But to summarize it would be safe to assume these Engineers that went into the Cryo Pods had done so before the Outbreak, and the scene of them is set before the other running Engineer scene.
It seems the Engineers latter who was running was trying to get to a safe haven of the Mural Room, before a Auto Lock Down which is why the others could not get inside. but if so what happened to the at least 6 Engineers who made it into that Room, could some of them had been the ones in the other scene? but if so it would mean they was preparing to go into Cryo Sleep after the Outbreak but they seemed calm. Maybe they weathered the Storm inside the Mural Room until the Outbreak had finished?
But then there was 4 Engineers on the Jugernaught so what happened to the other 2 if the above is the case, and if its not and the Engineers who made it into the Room, eventually ended up with the others piled up outside the door, then as discussed early on why would they leave the room if it was some place they was trying to get to for safety?
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Big Dave, how about this thought. The second hologram with the calm engineers as you call them actually happened first. These engineers are calm because the footage we are viewing is not happening on LV 223 but rather a different location alike maybe Paradise" . The three engineers who have their stasis pods breached are unknowingly infected by the lone survivor engineer. Upon arrival to the base with the other the engineers already there on lv223 the creatures escape, grow, and chase the engineers to the ampule room where the rest of the events take place as you have descibed.
I realize even as I am writing this that you and others will be able to find holes in this theory but hey, almost every theory based on this maddening move has hole right?
from what i can observe is that the engineers were wearing suits meaning it is not their homeland like Janek explained to shaw before visiting the last engineer.
its important to observe that they were trying to get In the room and not out. That means they really needed to gain access of the weapon room . that is why they probably were doing something wrong and had to be stopped. there was a conflict between the engineers and only one survived. so when this last remaining engineer saw shaw getting hit in the stomach he knew exactly what their true intentions were and decided to get rid of them in the same way the others did.
Yes this is one of the theories i mentioned in my post, that we can not tell for sure what point this occurred, or did i forget to mention pretty much what you said. lol maybe i forgot to type it.
Anyway yes one theory i was thinking about was, this recording does not have to had been recorded right before the outbreak, it could have been a event that occurred before and maybe even a few days before. It could been as you said a event that happened on Paradise or another location or indeed maybe it happened on LV 223 and the ship took off but then came back down, maybe reporting a error.
So in either case yes the ship could have come in to dock, some Engineers went on board to discover what was going on and found what ever had Chest Busted from the other 3 Engineers... Maybe the Last Engineer actually infected the other 3, we just cant be sure.
The ship was loaded with a stockpile of Urns but we also have to remember surely these Engineers know about the stuff they have in the Urns and you have to question how do they get infected with something you would think they would have knowledge about and also you would assume the purpose of the Space Jockey suits is to protect from infection with the Goo..
So yes having a ship come back, or failing to leave and then Engineers going to inspect the ship and then finding the Chest Busted Engineers would be enough reason for them to do a runner.
Also you may ask, well why would that ship be able to stay there or land if the base had all them other Engineers would then not be a bit suspicious.
But if we look at the Temple Mound it appears there are 3-4 more such complexes and we see outside the Mound Prometheus went to, there are 2 sets of Ports that contain Jugernaughts. David did say there are many more, and many is not simply one more.
So looking at the Complex it would have at least 2 Jugernaughts maybe more around each complex. How come we never saw any other Engineers from other complex? You would think the Last Engineer would call for their help if there was more of them.
Could it be that most if not all of them had at the date of the outbreak gone to the First Temple Complex.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
No no... don't get me wrong. I love reading speculations on Prometheus still to this day. I just personally feel it should all be taken with a grain of salt. After seeing Prometheus easily about 300+ times now, I'm still kind of concerned what the direction of the next film could possibly be, and whether it will actually be any good. *Fingers crossed* Carry on by all means. No insult meant to the OP, Deneba321. You did compile an interesting list. If "Paradise" is the name of the next Prometheus, I hope it's dark and challenging, inspiring and honors the art of HR Giger.
300 plus times... lol
Yeah even though the movie is not as great as many, like Alien or Aliens, i also find me watching it more than those movies....
Like the Orginal Thing movie, i watch that over and over and over, yet its not as good a movie as Star Wars movies, but i just cant help watch it over and over and i dont know why. Well its a great movie, but i mean i watch it more than even better movies out there lol.
Maybe its the Ambiguity of both movies?
With Alien and Aliens a lot of stuff is spoon fed in a way, yes we got Mystrey because we knew nothing of the Space Jockey and how he got there, or how and where the Xeno came from.. But the rest of the movie was easy to understand and left little unexplained.
With the Thing there is a ambiguity because you can never be 100% sure who infected who and at what point and many other mystreys about what happened to certain people in the movie.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
yeah, i just let the download for Prom loop on the ps3, it makes for great background noise ;)
I do not understand your analogy to assert, ask auto answer or respond to yourself, there are things that I agree, but what most caught my attention is the gia terminology you use, especially the concept that you are using,(gardeners )!! "" I sincerely believe that you know more than what you show! ""
is strange, I see you as someone who works for the franchise!
The initial post is dope. Great reasoning. Why this guy big dave seems to rant like he has some type of better alternative suggestion is beyond me. Give the poster's their credit. Especially this guy. The fact that the Engineers are wearing helmets makes sense. If they breathe in the chamber it very well could be that they could set off a negative reaction. That dome could have very well been "alive" as suggested in the post. Outstanding post with logical reason. Probably one of the best theories I've read at this site. My suggestion to big Dave-- stop d-bagging the other posters with your long-winded narratives of what you think is taking place in these films. Accept the fact there are other fans of this film besides yourself.
BigDave has a lot of seniority around here.Respect his opinion.
Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in heaven for
Big dave knows a lot of details and his imagination is good for all threads.. Stfu mosley
"My suggestion to big Dave-- stop d-bagging the other posters with your long-winded narratives of what you think is taking place in these films. Accept the fact there are other fans of this film besides yourself."
I understand it may come across like this to some, but its never my intention.. i never ever say "My theory is Correct" i also never try to say someone is wrong...
I will maybe seem like that, when i look at ways that could go against their theory but i am only offering clues or reasons that may not support a given theory, sometimes i even back up a supported theory.
If i dont agree with something or see its not the case, because its wild theory with evidence that contradicts it... i will point the evidence out but then also say however its always fun to speculate and each debate we cant be 100% sure if any theory holds water.
This style of my debate, i have recently done in the LV-426 or NOT Topic... where i will look at clues that dont support LV-426 being Paradise but also those that can..... but ultimately find a few holes to the theory... (Smoking Gun different Pilot Chambers and then how/who eventually goes into the crashed ships Chair to get Chest Busted).
But i hope people dont take such things as me disrespecting their theories... i always welcome counter points to my points such as one person said maybe the Pilot Chamber Cryo-Pods etc could hide away under the ship... which is a very valid counter points and i then highlighted indeed how this could work.
So i will apologize if i ever come across wrong... I think sometimes people can take my stance a bit wrong, the same goes with SM a number of people can take his comments wrong as he more or less basses things on Fact rather than speculation but SM never means any disrespect he just corrects things when they are wrong with actual Facts.
I enjoy speculation.... even if some ideas dont add up, there are some that indeed are very interesting and would be great if they was the case.
@ninXeno426 and Tiago
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
I will comment on the OP.... and i think i said this already, but indeed they have had a long good in depth look at many things, certainly nice to see theories based off people who have analyzed it a lot. and a lot of their points are very likely on the money.. its what clues point me to as well.
*Engineers was infected... attempted to get to that Room.
*The environment in the room, seems to prevent the Mutagen from being able to operate. so its likely when wearing there Bio-Hazzard suits this rooms environment is Sterile and also in a way seems to hibernate the infection.
*We can assume the suits may protect from the Black Goo by touch, at least to some degree.. and they dont need those suits to breath on the LV-223 surface, certainly not for short periods and potentially those corridors and Juggernaughts have a environment that Mankind can breath in.. So the outfit is maybe like a Bio-Hazzard suit.... but then why is it needed to Pilot the ship also?
Where i disagree is i think maybe its likely that the other Engineers where attempting to get into the Big Head Room via another Door but it got closed down. However this would mean a number of Engineers got into that Room... and we have to ask where did they get too. Did any leave LV-223 if so where.
These are all fun to debate as we dont have any clues to really suggest what happened to those who got into the Room... its thus a very open debate... as the OP put however.. maybe they left and ended up at that other Door...
We cant rule this out but i find it odd they would all appear pilled up like that... would they got further and died or killed and then pilled up... which then leads to why was the other Headless body not taken? (which the OP also questions) so its a lot of ifs and buts and maybes... and so the more simple answer without as many ifs and buts would be those Engineers failed to get into the Room.
The bodies where Hollow, they had random Holes... my theory for this was the suffered the same effect as the Sacrificial Engineer only the violent reaction was contained within a pressured suit and eventually it would explode out from what ever point it could.
This adds up with
*Shaws comments about outbreak and she seen it before (Ebola)
*The reason for getting into the Room, seems to freeze the effects (Preserved Head) that then exploded when it was activated to life and caused the Mutagen to then start to work again.
*Reason the dead bodies as seen on some seemed hollow, no skeletons just empty suits.
Thats not to say this theory is correct.... the movie offered a lot of ambiguous clues to something chasing them... the so called Deacon Scream... was it or was it not....
We have to remember the Props was built based off Spaights Draft, as they was in his draft too... only his draft it was made clear that some was Chest Busted and some suffered Wounds from the Adult Aliens, and Production had got underway when Lindeloff had started to work on the re-writes.
The Chest Busted Cryo-Pod Engineers was also in Spaights draft and explanation was they was all infected with a Chest Buster only the Last Engineer managed to get into Cryo-sleep in time to prevent his from happening.... which he then suffered after being woken up.
So if these Props was being worked on for Spaights Draft, then Lindeloffs had to add them someway into his more Black Goo ideas...
Which causes confusion but also ambiguity as we cant rule out was something that Chest Busted chasing the Engineers.
So there are a lot of things no matter what we try and look at with clues are left totally open to debate that we can not give a clear against or for anyone's theories.
The how did they get infected... is one such thing and as the OP speculated... maybe it has to be via some kind of poisoning... especially if its the Black Goo or related... as surely there are safety procedures and surely there suits are part of that.
Would they accidentally infect themselves? surely not on purpose?
Again this brings us to the earlier drafts both Spaights and Lindeloffs showed Engineers infected attempting to commit suicide. But we cant say this is the case with Prometheus.
Another thing i dont share with the OP is the Urns, its interesting to speculate could they have been added after those Dead Engineers... maybe the infection is how they got the Black Goo into those Urns.... but if this was intended would they not ritually get into the room and infect themselves then?
So i buy that the Urns are what they was working with, and those Urns was in that Room prior to the Outbreak.
R.I.P Sox 01/01/2006 - 11/10/2017
Thanks Cgmoseley - your and others comments here have awoken me from my long slumber. I originally made those comments back in June 2012 (along with many others on a single different thread) and then reposted this part.
BigDave, reading your comments, where does the idea of a "different" or "second" door come from?
Just FYI on Lindelof (as you are using non-observed web draft scripts as part of your thinking), his MO on script treatment is to take the scripted *original explicit story* as a first draft to turn into a script where the characters now slowly discover the *original story* scripted in bits and pieces to figure out. Thus it becomes an more intriguing *mystery story*...fairly derivative but very effective. Scott wisely carved this down down to a fast moving action/mystery/horror hybrid. Clearly effective as folks are still discussing the story.
If you're interested in discussing the "Urn Room", I'd be happy to further elaborate/discuss. For example, the urns themselves were clearly visible stacked to the roof in the ship David discovered. Do you find it interesting that they took a few of these urns and also put them in the "Prometheus Bust Room"? Given that they were headed to Earth "deliver" the virus, I'd offer this sheds an interesting light.
Happy Chinese New Year! (which happens to be today)
I feel as if the urns in the room heading towards the jockey station (the stacked urns) were empty.
In the military, you load your nukes. Meaning, your war heads (or your black goo) need to be screwed on before you use them. No need to stack a bunch of active nukes in one place if you catch my drift. Too dangerous.
Just saw the Alien: Covenant with my friend, Sam. I thought it was excellent. I'd offer Scott perfected some of the pacing/timing issues that Prometheus suffered from, but more importantly subtly perfected the alchemy of character driven motivations to produce a flawless yet equally though provoking gem of a film.
I gladly tip my hat to both Scott and the writers.
Deneba321, aka Dan Kaplan
@Deneba321 Upvoted for the effort to put it up.
Eine Theorie die nicht auf Etwas solidem basiert ist für gewöhnlich nur Geschwätz.
Flawless? Now you are trippin'! NO movie is without flaws. And this has many.
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched Androids blow and finger each other's flutes.
@Phallic, is weed now allowed to be smoked during viewings? lol